Just lol at thinking parts of the trans community doesn't try its damned hardest to brainwash children into thinking they are trans. They even get angry as fuk at people who are on the fence about their own identity for not jumping headfirst into this degeneracy. These groups are all online for you to see.

There's also a school in the UK with 76 trans children below the age of 17. And guess what? The principle just so happens to be trans too. What a fuking shocker. The brainwashing and the agenda pushing is real, and you're an idiot to dismiss it.

That's fine. Just respect their right to exist and don't act like they should all be killed/jailed/ not be treated as people. You are mistaken about the mind. There is nothing but the physical. But I suppose I can't prove that to you directly to your satisfaction, so I'll leave it as a philosophical dispute. I'll just remind you of the condition known as Alzheimer's disease.

BTW a lot of the posters ITT remind me of the "pasta":

Repped.

Why not add something of substance to the argument instead of insinuating that I like men? Plenty of heterosexual people support the rights of others.
Can you show me where the trans community tries to pressure/brainwash kids into doing this ****? Is it possible that the school with 76 trans children is a school intended to be trans-friendly? You *******s ITT are getting mad over nothing. Get outside, go to the mall, and tell me how many trans people you see flipping a chit and trying to brainwash kids.

Oh, and just so you know, it being online =/= irl.

So is OP defending himself as a tranny in here?

nah I am defending ur right to exist

Lol definitely a mental illness

Are you serious with this post? You are not nearly as smart as you think if you are serious. You list one disease as proof that the brain is purely physical? That's like me saying leukemia proves cancers originate in the blood. Do you know how symbiosis works? When one host dies the other dies as well. If you don't believe mental thought processes affect physical reality, ever heard of a thing called meditation? How about the monks that set themselves on fire without moving an inch? How about an anxiety attack? The mind can impose reality onto the body, there's no question about it. I mean hell, what do you think happens when you say "I'm about to go squat"? You make a decision then enact it physically. The opposite of this is looking at your mental state when you slouch compared to when you pose in a "power position". Are you really going to tell me that your mind doesn't make decisions that control the actions of your physical body? I even told you about psycho****tic disorders and you come back with "well Alzheimers effects the brain." Lawd.

And I don't care if anyone is a tranny like I said, I'm just correcting your misinformation.

The mental processes affecting reality occur via physical means, bro. Alzheimer's entirely negates the notion of mind being separate from brain...You can literally watch someone lose their entire sense of self.

So you are stupid? I never said the mind is separate from the brain, what are you rambling about? I'm not talking about philosophical mind-body dualism, that's literally the opposite of what I'm talking about. I literally just explained symbiosis in the context of the mind and physical body function and you just completely ignore it. No chit that when the Alzheimers causes neurodegenerative defects it leads to a loss of mentation, that's in no way an argument against what I said. All it does is prove one way of the mind-body symbiosis. My example of an anxiety attack proves the opposite pathway. It's not a one way street. Here, let's do a simple experiment that a child would understand:

Tell yourself you are going to move your hand. That is your mind determining your physical reality.

Slouch and frown for a couple minutes, repeat "i'm a piece of chit" and observe your emotions. Then stand straight with your chin up for a while, tell yourself you're the chit, see how you feel.

If you don't understand after that I don't know what to tell you dude. Just rest assured I know what Alzheimer's is and you are not blowing my mind by telling me about it.

It's not a symbiosis. There is only the brain. That's what I am trying to argue. The choice is an illusion. Your decisions are made using your brain.

Let me know when you learn some basic neuropsychology or just logical reasoning skills dude. I literally gave you examples of how they are symbiotic and you're just saying "no it's not." The mind originating from the brain has nothing to do with anything I'm saying, how else could I explain this? The fact the mind originates from the brain is PROOF that they are linked in the way I said. If they were separate entities then my point would be completely invalid. If you think the mind doesn't affect the body you're a fkin automaton, plain and simple. Do you have conscious thoughts? Do you make decisions based on them? Then your mind is affecting your body. Or are you just trolling? I think you're serious because I've encountered a lot of people on the internet who can't argue or reason their way out of a paper bag.

I'm pro-trans, and I would honestly wife a ladyboy.

However, I do believe that there are probablysomepeople who choose to be trans, some because it will get them attention eg. teenagers, and some, and some to date a wider pool of men.

1) I was speaking to a transwoman, and she honestly believed that some transpeople she saw in some trans communities in Latin America (she was born and lived in a country in Latin America) were actually gay men, who changed their appearance to widen the pool of guys they could have sex with.

2) An ex-friend of mine, who genuinely is not homophobic at all, said that when he observed ladyboys whilst living in Thailand, he said a lot of them seemed to have the psychology of gay men (he used to work in the nightclub scene). He had spent his whole adult life either studying or practicing in the therapy and personal development fields, and he was giving me his honest opinion.

3) There is a guy on youtube who runs a channel called; The Real Ladyboy Show, and he is in a long term relationship with a ladyboy, and has been dating and banging ladyboys in Thailand for a long time. He even says that sometimes if you arrange to meet up with a ladyboy from a dating site or app, when you get to the bedroom you might realize... 'This is a man, not a ladyboy'.

Here is the channel, for the curious lurkers...https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9N...ZOHr9gA/videos

The 3 people above, seem to understand that there are some 'femboys' posing as ladyboys/T girls. Or maybe they were identifying a really controversial hypothesis about transgenderism which is the AGP vs HSTS psychology of transexuality.... http://allabouthsts.com/


4) Here is a school in the UK, which has a rate of transgenderism that IMO is absurd, and seems to reflect teenagers following a trendwithin their social environmentof being trans...


"A school in Brighton labelled as 'the coolest state secondary in town' has 40 children who do not identify with their sex at birth with another 36 saying they are 'gender fluid'."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sex-birth.html


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...rals-2ttm8c0fr


I'm not saying that I believe the majority conscious choose to be transgender, but I am saying that I do believe that there are some people (mainly teenagers) who do choose, because transgenderism is trending in mainstream and social media.

And also I believe that in countries where gay people are already stigmatized (and so the negative social effects you are talking about, will exist for them regardless), some people may choose to become transition because they prefer the trans community and access to the kind of men that date transwomen (the majority of men who bang transwomen, do not mix in gay circles, nor are they turned on by a masculine body).

Note: Not all T girls get bottom surgery (ie. getting a vag). Some keep their dicks, and just like getting pounded in their juicy or little asses.Great point, repped.

For lurkers...

Nong Poy.

I take the position that we are biological automatons. Yes.

You don't know the difference between trans and intersex, do you?

No one believes Schizophrenics chose the ailment.

It's ironic because it's the tranny movement that is not "letting other live", they are trying to force people to accommodate their mental illness. No one really gives a **** when trannies were minding their own business, now they are everyone jamming their lifestyle and how you must act around them guidelines.

We went over that ITT. Based on the definitions of trans and intersex, it allows for many labeled as intersex who undergo operations to be trans. They are not mutually exclusive. Trans has to do with gender identity whereas intersex classically meant ambiguous genitals, but can in some contexts be expanded to mean anyone with a DSD. Another argument I made ITT is that research into transgender brains reveals anomalies that may explain some of the behaviors as developmental anomalies, similar to the DSD case, but after gonadal differentiation, so that they present as neurological differences. But this research is sill really recent, and nobody understands yet.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/

and this is hilarious. lumping an actually physiological condition with an mental illness to legitimized the mental illness. That is what we call disingenuous.

Speak for yourself boyo, I'm not an autist too. The existence of psycho****tic disorders and cognitive behavioral therapy unfortunately reveals you are a *******. The position you take is not supported by any field you study. Consciousness is a disparate emergent property of the brain. We used to be automatons under the theory of the bicameral mind, then the develop of consciousness created a degree of autonomy. At best you can argue that we don't have free will, but that's not the same thing.

Read this, and tell me it's not biological. Mental conditions can be biological too. In fact, eventually, they have to be.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/

As the stigma around trans people disappears, and we learn more, I bet it will be revealed that many of these people you dismiss as mentally ill (though they may be) have similar issues in embryonic development as those with DSD. That they are mentally ill does not negate the physiological nature of the disorder.

And Ken was completely ignored which means it’s true lol

Thanks. Just one question. Can you show me the mechanism by which this nonphysical entity that you call a mind actuates any type of control over the physical world? Because you can't influence the spin of any electron, for example. You do not control your brain or your hand. So, when "you" move your hand, it is just a system of particles interacting. It actually had to follow the laws of physics, which are not set by you. The electrical signals in your brain cannot spontaneously generate in exactly the manner your fictitious mind dictates consistently. The entire system is roughly deterministic, and fundamentally random. There is nothing there to allow an external entity to supernaturally control and manipulate the universe. To have agency of choice is to be exempt from the laws of physics.

There is also good reason to believe that if you consider consciousness a trait you can assign to a physical system, such as a brain, then there are degrees of consciousness, and even a fundamental particle could be considered to have a nonzero consciousness. In fact, it must. I contend that apparent consciousness is an emergent property of physical systems which have specific types of feedbacks and exhibit some of the characteristics of life. I do not believe in free will in the sense of agency. I take the stance of hard indeterminism. The future is not absolutely determined (though it is approximately determined), and it i fundamentally random. This removes both free will and fate.

Quoted since it was apparently ignored and the thread made 8 pages.

It is true. I requested to come back twice, and he never replied or unbanned me. Feels.

If you have free will, that entails a supreme mind to determine (and to believe it). If there is a supreme mind, then things are at least determined in his mind, even though we perceive to have freewill. Consider my model to be like entanglement. A particle can exist and not exist at the same time. Therefore, it is possible to have a mind that is able to be aware of all, yet have necessary subordinates that are delineated to a degree (limit in power), which would be a person. It would be like saying both determinism and free will exists. I think this is a more plausible solution.

As far as faith goes: the bible calls this the substance of things unseen. Logically how can you argue with this? We cannot see everything, therefore, faith is unavoidable, not optional.

If God decided to reveal his word through physics, imagine the priesthood we would have, if it actually made it that far. (amusingly, sciencedom actually feels this way now, where people defer to credentials.... like a priest). I reckon you'd still have doubters too. I mean, look at how many people are unenlightened, and when you talk to them, their eyes glaze over. It's a shame, and it isn't their fault. Some people just process things differently due to circumstances. It would seem very myopic for a God to target only one group than try to make a beachhead for all to come to terms with him. Queue figurative language, and you have a multi threaded delivery of a complex thought.

Christ stands opposed to other religions in that he did not bring religion, but addressed the heart via consider the divine, as a person, rather than a concept, or force. He also is consistent with delivering an idea that it's His way, and no other - meaning that he's particularly being exclusive, and denouncing any other way/belief. Christ isn't the literal invisible God in the sky (Father), rather the interface (Son) as to what we would be able to recognize of the invisible God. He's God in flesh. So the two views in the world are really down to this: a monotheistic, theologically consistent conception of a divinepersonvs contrived ideas about an impersonal being/force in the sky that is aloof.

Scripture may have been written by men, but the testimony of what they witnessed requires as much faith that you'd carry in your day to day life. I mean you could say that, since men wrote about xyz historical event, lets say the holocaust, that you find that the records were written by men, so it didn't really happen. Evidence, is a matter that is convincing. What is convincing about the facts of the bible, is that some things in it can be verified in different ways. You cannot/should not dismiss it as non evidence, just a preconceived notion of what you determine as good enough evidence - that will always be biased.

Weird when I search porn hub for 46XY I get no results. Op is spreading fake news

Free will is not real, we've proven it. When you go to grab some food, watch a video etc your brain tells you to eat and you believe it was your decision, this goes for everything. Your thoughts are not of your control nor your decisions. What we call you is an illusion created by the brain, made possible due to evolution. This illusion is necessary to do higher level thinking. Therefore we are more like someone observing a movie, while we think our actions are chosen by "us". This does not really matter as long as we feel like we have free will, which we do.
What makes "you" you? If all your cells die and get replaced by new cells, how can you still be you? Are the atoms that make up your body you? The cells? The organs?

Religion should not be totally dismissed but most of it is bogus. Written evidence about xyz can be verified from physical evidence. We don't know if anything is true or false, no matter how true it might seem. We make assumptions. If we throw a coin and it falls down 100/100 times nothing is to say it won't go upwards forever the 101th time we throw the coin. We can be fairly certain but never 100%, this goes for everything. The wise knows he knows nothing.

Religion serves as a good record of some points in history, but these stories have been changed, had totally fake texts added and over-exaggerated, making it so most religious texts can be dismissed. One example is noahs arc, in various religions, we have records of people reporting a great flood. Noahs arc is one of many examples of this, but most likely it was written after this flood then turned into a story. We have found physical evidence of an asteroid hitting the earth, where it was large amounts of ice causing a massive flood. Meaning the story of noahs arc most likely originated from an actual great flood but made into a story involving god bc they thought god made natural disasters happen then over-exaggerated even further

As evidence for a god any religion is lacking, we have no evidence for a god and its an illogical idea, we can prove we are predisposed to believe in a god due to evolution, makes sense bc it created a sense of community, morals, meaning. Religion can simply be explained by evolution, which is why we see prehumans paint animal gods. We can easily see how religion does not make logical sense and are mostly collections of stories some being based on events that did happen, most not.

To much addyWell if someone is born with a fetish doesn't mean they have to act on it? They do "choose" the get stigmatized by dressing like the opposite gender although there are born wanting to do so. When they act on it they are "choosing" to get stigmatized, imo they would be better off just trying to be the gender they were born as, altough it may be hard.

Promoting gender surgery is insanity when suicide rates remain the same, that would be the same as supporting people born with mental illnesses making them want to cut off their limbs, go blind etc.
Hate does not help, but imo we are going the wrong direction in treating trans ppl. It was removed from the list of mental illnesses and now you get a lot of hate for even saying it is a mental illness. If you want to cut off your genitalia and replace it with the opposite gender you are mentally ill, no doubt. I think we should look for possible treatment, letting them "change their gender" and supporting it is the same as telling someone who is schizo to listen to the voices in their head. Support of these surgeries do ruin lives, some people give their kids hormone blockers if they say they are the opposite gender, causing irreversible damage. Some even let their kids "choose" their gender, some scum has 1000% tricked their kids to get on hormone blockers etc. Some states remove the parent's custody if the kid decides he's a girl then gets put on hormone blockers and obvs brainwashed. No kid should decide whether or not they should receive hormone blockers, utter madness. Supporting someone to act out their mental illness bc it does not directly hurt anyone is INSANE.

@wincel, wrongly worded title, if genetic mutations cause people to be transgender it's still entirely a mental illness that can be caused by genetic mutations. The same thing goes for schizophrenia, caused by genetics and mutations doesn't make it any less of mental illness.

Where's the proof? All you did was provide a set of ideas that you have observed and determined as true. Whether it is actually true has yet to be proven. Problem with your idea is, how can you rightly determine consciousness as an illusion, if you are in essence but an illusion yourself? If you walk backward in your logic, what are you actually referencing? Everything is an illusion? Well, what is not an illusion, so that you may compare it with? How can we distinguish reality in one form without an opposite?

Take away: you have to start with a faith statement before you can determine things. If your faith is that things are an illusion, why hold an argument? Why be bothered by anything? Wouldn't this create a contradiction in your initial premise?

It seems contrary to care about matters of control, when one believes we are but mere complexity.

9 pages, have we reached a consensus yet?