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Forum » Lol if you are not listening to Dave Ramsey and flowing the baby steps
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Thread: Lol if you are not listening to Dave Ramsey and flowing the baby steps

post 1581416811 06-04-2019, 09:53 AM
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You no credit card idiots are hilarious. Yeah let me use cash instead of a credit card and forgo rewards (which only get better with a better credit score), and the protection a credit card offers from fraud and disputed charges. Never paid a dime of interest either, just treat it like it was a debt card, not exactly rocket science.
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post 1581417401 06-04-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted By FFailed⏩
Ya I was more curious about the retirement account part and how old his kid was that he/she has some sort of earned income. That'd be goat if you could start a ROTH IRA for a baby
I know this isn't what you're talking about, but a baby most certainly can have a Roth. Babies that are in movies or ads, for example, or somehow earn an income are legitimately qualified for Roth contributions.
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post 1581417611 06-04-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted By Zwicker⏩
It seems like people are fixated on the CC rewards thing.

Dave has acknowledged on many shows that there are plenty of people who own and use credit cards who will never run into issues with them. The types (like me) who have never paid a cent in interest in over a decade. His point, even for those people, is that the CC points are still largely irrelevant on the path to wealth and financial freedom.

For most people, the reason they aren't financially successful is behavioral. Getting those sorts of people to follow a proper budget and invest is the goal. Earning $1000 in travel rewards in 10 years doesn't really matter in the big picture. His aim is to set up everyday people on the path to be millionaires. If the goal is a net worth of 1million+, the couple of gift cards and travel miles barely factor into the equation.
I'd agree that CC rewards are irrelevant in those terms, they're just a mindless little bonus that builds up in the background if you're part of the crew that can stay within a budget while using CCs and reaping the rewards


I use my stockpiled CC points to buy things that I'd otherwise have a hard time spending money on. In the last couple years I've used them to buy a BBQ, replacement pillows for the bed, and $500 in gift cards to Williams Sonoma to replace other old kitchen crap
post 1581418111 06-04-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted By Destor⏩
I'd agree that CC rewards are irrelevant in those terms, they're just a mindless little bonus that builds up in the background if you're part of the crew that can stay within a budget while using CCs and reaping the rewards


I use my stockpiled CC points to buy things that I'd otherwise have a hard time spending money on. In the last couple years I've used them to buy a BBQ, replacement pillows for the bed, and $500 in gift cards to Williams Sonoma to replace other old kitchen crap
That's fair. I just had to comment because people were obsessing over that one tiny, insignificant, point in relation to all of Dave Ramsey's ideas. CC can be used responsibly by intelligent people who can manage their finances. Even Dave concedes to that point. He just still believes them to be irrelevant in the grander scheme of financial success in life.

For example, I used one generic credit card for 12-13 years. I just recently (this month) depleted all the points. From all those years of saving, I was able to get 2.5 domestic flights paid for. Yawn. Completely unremarkable in regards to my financial goals in life. Barely a footnote. Now, I rarely bother with the card. Usually stick to cash if I can. Just not worth the bother.
post 1581418431 06-04-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted By Zwicker⏩
That's fair. I just had to comment because people were obsessing over that one tiny, insignificant, point in relation to all of Dave Ramsey's ideas. CC can be used responsibly by intelligent people who can manage their finances. Even Dave concedes to that point. He just still believes them to be irrelevant in the grander scheme of financial success in life.

For example, I used one generic credit card for 12-13 years. I just recently (this month) depleted all the points. From all those years of saving, I was able to get 2.5 domestic flights paid for. Yawn. Completely unremarkable in regards to my financial goals in life. Barely a footnote. Now, I rarely bother with the card. Usually stick to cash if I can. Just not worth the bother.
Well chit, man, as long as you don't mind just tossing away a few hundred $ a year, you mind throwing a couple bills my way? It won't matter much in the grand scheme of things over the long term, but I'll still gladly take it.
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post 1581418681 06-04-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted By Zwicker⏩
That's fair. I just had to comment because people were obsessing over that one tiny, insignificant, point in relation to all of Dave Ramsey's ideas. CC can be used responsibly by intelligent people who can manage their finances. Even Dave concedes to that point. He just still believes them to be irrelevant in the grander scheme of financial success in life.

For example, I used one generic credit card for 12-13 years. I just recently (this month) depleted all the points. From all those years of saving, I was able to get 2.5 domestic flights paid for. Yawn. Completely unremarkable in regards to my financial goals in life. Barely a footnote. Now, I rarely bother with the card. Usually stick to cash if I can. Just not worth the bother.
I've never heard Dave concede that and I've watched quite a few of his YouTube vids, but I definitely haven't watched all of 'em


Cash is more of a hassle to me tbh, I'd rather do everything digitally. I also use my credit card as a cash flow tool -- Visa is essentially financing all of my purchases for upwards of 51 days (monthly billing + 3wk grace period). Again it doesn't make a big difference, but it's another little perk. Put it all together and you have a convenient payment tool that affords fraud / theft protection, removes the wad of cash from your wallet, provides a couple % points return on your cash flow, and also provides free financing for up to 7wks on that cash flow. It's a no-brainer to me
post 1581418791 06-04-2019, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
Well chit, man, as long as you don't mind just tossing away a few hundred $ a year, you mind throwing a couple bills my way? It won't matter much in the grand scheme of things over the long term, but I'll still gladly take it.
13 years to pay for $850 in flights? A little underwhelming, is my point. Not worth debating the merits of it, really. If it's worth your time to pay off the card every month, avoid the calls for new "promotions" to the card on a weekly basis, etc. then go for it. I just feel indifferent to going out of my way to use the card at all anymore when I used to think it was great to save points. It's an insignificant part of my financial goals in life.
post 1581419351 06-04-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted By Zwicker⏩
13 years to pay for $850 in flights? A little underwhelming, is my point. Not worth debating the merits of it, really. If it's worth your time to pay off the card every month, avoid the calls for new "promotions" to the card on a weekly basis, etc. then go for it. I just feel indifferent to going out of my way to use the card at all anymore when I used to think it was great to save points. It's an insignificant part of my financial goals in life.
I don't know what you were doing, but I get 1.5 - 5% back on literally everything I buy. I'm sitting on more than $250 in rewards right now and the year isn't even half way over. By 12/31 I'll probably have at least $600, just for taking the effort of logging into a website once every week or 2 and clicking "pay". I've also not had any calls that I can recall in recent memory at all, let alone weekly.
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post 1581419641 06-04-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted By Zwicker⏩
13 years to pay for $850 in flights? A little underwhelming, is my point. Not worth debating the merits of it, really. If it's worth your time to pay off the card every month, avoid the calls for new "promotions" to the card on a weekly basis, etc. then go for it. I just feel indifferent to going out of my way to use the card at all anymore when I used to think it was great to save points. It's an insignificant part of my financial goals in life.
Dam that is pretty weak for 13 years of CC usage. I just paid for an upcoming vacation with a brand new CC and probably got about $850 worth of points just for booking a trip I already had the intentions of planning regardless.
post 1581419741 06-04-2019, 10:39 AM
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Couple quick thoughts:

-most people are financially illiterate. I've worked with people who have moved home to pay off debt, then had a new cell phone financed and a new car within 2 months bc their living expenses decreased. Literally any semi-coherent plan helps a majority of people and this is who he's trying to reach.

-I don't even know how you function in 2019 without credit cards. Half your shopping is probably online. You really want everyone having your debit card info?
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post 1581419821 06-04-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
I don't know what you were doing, but I get 1.5 - 5% back on literally everything I buy. I'm sitting on more than $250 in rewards right now and the year isn't even half way over. By 12/31 I'll probably have at least $600, just for taking the effort of logging into a website once every week or 2 and clicking "pay". I've also not had any calls that I can recall in recent memory at all, let alone weekly.
The amount you earn will scale with your cash flow, so making more and spending more = more rewards. But it's probably safe to say it'll always be a relatively small portion of your overall finances

If you make $10million per year and $1million flows through your credit card, you'll get $15,000 back @ a 1.5% rewards rate. That's a big number, but it's still small relative to your $10million income. Now if you can get your hands on a company card that has mega cash flowing through it, then you're laughing
post 1581420201 06-04-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted By Zwicker⏩
13 years to pay for $850 in flights? A little underwhelming, is my point. Not worth debating the merits of it, really. If it's worth your time to pay off the card every month, avoid the calls for new "promotions" to the card on a weekly basis, etc. then go for it. I just feel indifferent to going out of my way to use the card at all anymore when I used to think it was great to save points. It's an insignificant part of my financial goals in life.
Even if you dont care about points, which still seems silly to me to turn down, you are leaving out the fact that you are much better protected against fraudulent charges using a credit card vs cash or debit. I cant even count the times ive needed to dispute a charge and since I used credit, it was painless and not a cent ever came out of my pocket during the process. If I had used debit or cash i would have been chit out of luck.
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post 1581420461 06-04-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted By Destor⏩
The amount you earn will scale with your cash flow, so making more and spending more = more rewards. But it's probably safe to say it'll always be a relatively small portion of your overall finances

If you make $10million per year and $1million flows through your credit card, you'll get $15,000 back @ a 1.5% rewards rate. That's a big number, but it's still small relative to your $10million income. Now if you can get your hands on a company card that has mega cash flowing through it, then you're laughing
Of course. Yeah, it's never going to be a large percentage of your overall finances, but I can't imagine a scenario where I would scoff at getting back 1.5% of what I've spent for the year. It's a fairly insignificant amount, but it's more than I'd want to just leave sitting on the table because logging into a website is too much work. Put it this way: if losing whatever $ amount 1.5% of your annual expenditures would come to would bother you, then it's ridiculous to say that using a rewards card that would net you that is not worth the effort.
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post 1581424691 06-04-2019, 11:47 AM
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lol @ all this rewards chatter. the rewards are so small it's literally a joke. especially if you're a frugal kunt.



MrMoneyMustache is awesome for aiming at your 25x nest egg to financial independence.

Being frugal to the point of reaching semi-retirement in your 30s (part time work after you no longer need to contribute to your nest egg) is even more feasible using his principles. I'm basically there, i want to keep maxing retirement accounts through my 30s, though. If you have a job you love and only need to be there 30 hrs/week, that's the dream right there.

Sure I could ramp up my effort - thus increase income - but why do that when my current living expenses are already less than half of my income. That's the point of MMM
post 1581425231 06-04-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
lol @ all this rewards chatter. the rewards are so small it's literally a joke. especially if you're a frugal kunt.



MrMoneyMustache is awesome for aiming at your 25x nest egg to financial independence.

Being frugal to the point of reaching semi-retirement in your 30s (part time work after you no longer need to contribute to your nest egg) is even more feasible using his principles. I'm basically there, i want to keep maxing retirement accounts through my 30s, though. If you have a job you love and only need to be there 30 hrs/week, that's the dream right there.

Sure I could ramp up my effort - thus increase income - but why do that when my current living expenses are already less than half of my income. That's the point of MMM
My employer is reimbursing me for over $7k worth of hotels which are all being put on my personal credit card. I'm getting over a hundred dollars worth of cash for free. It might not be a huge amount but that money can be used to pay for a nice dinner date or whatever monthly expenses I have.
post 1581426621 06-04-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
lol @ all this rewards chatter. the rewards are so small it's literally a joke. especially if you're a frugal kunt.



MrMoneyMustache is awesome for aiming at your 25x nest egg to financial independence.

Being frugal to the point of reaching semi-retirement in your 30s (part time work after you no longer need to contribute to your nest egg) is even more feasible using his principles. I'm basically there, i want to keep maxing retirement accounts through my 30s, though. If you have a job you love and only need to be there 30 hrs/week, that's the dream right there.

Sure I could ramp up my effort - thus increase income - but why do that when my current living expenses are already less than half of my income. That's the point of MMM
I don't understand how you go out of your way to be frugal, but then completely scoff at the idea of saving an additional couple % off of expenses you still have to pay anyway. It doesn't make any sense.
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post 1581426841 06-04-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted By iwant2beswole⏩
Just googled the baby steps


Lmao if you needed someone else to explain that to you. Who was common sense?
common sense is an uncommon virtue. just look at the kids with 60k in student loans for a job that will pay, at best 40k/year. you would think that people live within their means but most people dont and end up living pay check to pay check
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post 1581426931 06-04-2019, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
lol @ all this rewards chatter. the rewards are so small it's literally a joke. especially if you're a frugal kunt.
For some. I spend about 150k a year on my CCs, so if I flip that into travel it is worth about 3,500-4k a year. Sure, it is a somewhat trivial amount if looking at it on a year by year basis, but I have saved at least 20k in travel expenses over the past 10 years, all of which has been rolled into my investments. So that 20k saved between 25-35 will be what, 150k at retirement? Not necessarily a trivial amount then.

Anyway, it really just irks me because frivolous CC spend is a symptom and not the problem. Fix the problem and the symptom isn't an issue anymore.
post 1581427681 06-04-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By nm1891⏩
You no credit card idiots are hilarious. Yeah let me use cash instead of a credit card and forgo rewards (which only get better with a better credit score), and the protection a credit card offers from fraud and disputed charges. Never paid a dime of interest either, just treat it like it was a debt card, not exactly rocket science.
This.

The only argument you ever hear from the no credit card crew is “credit cards are bad for everyone because I have poor self control”. It’s especially surprising to see people on strict budgets sneer at “only” saving 2% on everything you buy, while they pay in cash thinking that makes them financial geniuses.

If you aren’t an idiot, only buy things you would’ve bought anyway, and never carry a balance, there are no downsides.

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post 1581442681 06-04-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted By xpin2winx⏩
My employer is reimbursing me for over $7k worth of hotels which are all being put on my personal credit card. I'm getting over a hundred dollars worth of cash for free. It might not be a huge amount but that money can be used to pay for a nice dinner date or whatever monthly expenses I have.
Totally different, you aren't even spending that money to begin with lol.
Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
I don't understand how you go out of your way to be frugal, but then completely scoff at the idea of saving an additional couple % off of expenses you still have to pay anyway. It doesn't make any sense.
Because of the fact I barely spend, I don't ever get excited about rewards .... I use a prime card and get 5% back on Amazon purchases, but instead of getting excited about my rewards, I just question why I bought so much chit to get those rewards to begin with lol.

Getting excited about cc rewards is the same as being excited you collected some change in nickels and dimes because you spent full dollars lol.
Originally Posted By jimbong⏩
For some. I spend about 150k a year on my CCs, so if I flip that into travel it is worth about 3,500-4k a year. Sure, it is a somewhat trivial amount if looking at it on a year by year basis, but I have saved at least 20k in travel expenses over the past 10 years, all of which has been rolled into my investments. So that 20k saved between 25-35 will be what, 150k at retirement? Not necessarily a trivial amount then.

Anyway, it really just irks me because frivolous CC spend is a symptom and not the problem. Fix the problem and the symptom isn't an issue anymore.
$150k/yr in spending got you a $4k cash-back bonus.... If you spent 10% less per year and received no cash-back, you'd be $6k ahead lol. Unless your cc spending is for business expenses, wtf r u buying?
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
Because of the fact I barely spend, I don't ever get excited about rewards .... I use a prime card and get 5% back on Amazon purchases, but instead of getting excited about my rewards, I just question why I bought so much chit to get those rewards to begin with lol.

Getting excited about cc rewards is the same as being excited you collected some change in nickels and dimes because you spent full dollars lol.
I get not being that excited about it - it isn't a lot of money in the grand scheme of things - but I don't get why some choose not to do it anyway since even though it's a small amount, it's still a chunk of cash you get to put back in your pocket. To me it's like deciding that bending over to pick up a $1 bill just isn't worth it. It's not a lot of money, but fuk it, free dollar.

I also have the Prime card. 5% on things I get from Amazon and 2% back on gas.
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post 1581443351 06-04-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
Getting excited about cc rewards is the same as being excited you collected some change in nickels and dimes because you spent full dollars lol.
It’s not about getting excited about rewards, it’s about explaining to the “LOL @ rewards, pay cash because I’m smart” crew that they are passing up on free money, assuming they would spend the same anyway. If they can’t carry a credit card without adding unnecessary spending, that’s on them, but they blame credit cards for their lack of self control.
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post 1581443581 06-04-2019, 04:40 PM
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Ramsey is not dumb. If using a credit has more going for it than a debit card, Ramsey wouldnt have recommended it. The reason why he doesn't want people to use credit cards - people spend 2-3x more when they use a credit card, because it doesn't feel like real money. Casinos use chips to make the money feel like its fake(heard it somewhere).

Agian, before sum of yall ****gits diss on my boi, Ramsey, go read his books first. If you haven't read it, non of what you say has any merit - Zero.
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post 1581443801 06-04-2019, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted By FreshlySnipes⏩
It’s not about getting excited about rewards, it’s about explaining to the “LOL @ rewards, pay cash because I’m smart” crew that they are passing up on free money, assuming they would spend the same anyway. If they can’t carry a credit card without adding unnecessary spending, that’s on them, but they blame credit cards for their lack of self control.
This.

You're spending the money regardless...might as well get some nice perks out of it too.

Literally everything goes through my Amex and travel Visa I get some sexy points for it too.
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I've jacked up my credit so badly I need to get another to make small purchases and pay them off so I can bring it back up. Boggles my mind how you can have cash in hand for stuff but you can't get it because of credit.
post 1581445211 06-04-2019, 05:12 PM
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#116
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Originally Posted By Beararms⏩
I've jacked up my credit so badly I need to get another to make small purchases and pay them off so I can bring it back up. Boggles my mind how you can have cash in hand for stuff but you can't get it because of credit.
It really is stupid. Some apartment complexes won't let you live in their residence without a high enough credit score, even if you have the ability to buy out the whole complex! Makes no sense. But businesses that seek to get an idea of your payment history can't just go off of your word alone, they need that extra bit of concrete evidence.

Good news is you can scrape around the need for a good credit score for things like a mortgage via manual underwriting. But very few lenders do that.
post 1581446001 06-04-2019, 05:26 PM
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#117
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Credit Cards are awesome if you pay them all off in full and on time.

To really maximize their potential value, open up a travel credit card with a big signup bonus (examples Chase Sapphire Reserved or Barclays Arrival) each time you have any big expenses coming up (vehicle service, home refurnishing costs, etc) and use it to pay the cost you would have spent anyway with your debit card. You are essentially getting over $700+ free value on top of the cash back you get for using it.

Do this a few times a year and you will pay very little for travel expenses.
post 1581446851 06-04-2019, 05:46 PM
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#118
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Really solid thread, and good debates here.


I have the Amazon prime card to buy various items from time to time (as long as it's the same price or cheaper than going to a brick and mortar store) and get free shipping on the item. That gets me 5% back.

My primary card (which is primarily used for gas, food and misc purchases) gets me an average of 1.5% back on all of my purchases (2% for gas and food, 1% everything else). Last year I got back about $500. Pennies to the misc, but for me that's a good chunk of change for going about my usual way of buying in general.
post 1581449521 06-04-2019, 06:37 PM
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#119
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
$150k/yr in spending got you a $4k cash-back bonus.... If you spent 10% less per year and received no cash-back, you'd be $6k ahead lol. Unless your cc spending is for business expenses, wtf r u buying?
It’s just the total of my families annual spend, we put everything we can on Credit Card, including daycare. Also has about 30-40k in work expenses on it as well.
post 1581451741 06-04-2019, 07:17 PM
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#120
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Originally Posted By Visel⏩
It really is stupid. Some apartment complexes won't let you live in their residence without a high enough credit score, even if you have the ability to buy out the whole complex! Makes no sense. But businesses that seek to get an idea of your payment history can't just go off of your word alone, they need that extra bit of concrete evidence.

Good news is you can scrape around the need for a good credit score for things like a mortgage via manual underwriting. But very few lenders do that.
It's not stupid nor is it necessarily about money. Statistically people with poor credit will make chitty tenants, regardless of current ability to pay rent. People who have bad credit just because they always use cash are the minority of people with terrible credit.
S/B/D—185/165/205 (sumo w/ straps)
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