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Forum » Why mindset doesn't matter as much as you think.
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Thread: Why mindset doesn't matter as much as you think.

post 1583939981 07-15-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
So your point is thatsome people are just elite and there is no amount of effort you can put in to match them?

Really just trying to clarify here because you keep going back to this.

I mean, if that's your point, sure. There's always a brah out there who is just way better at everything you're good at.

But what the hell does that even mean?

If it's not preventing you from living a successful and productive life, what's the point in even addressing it?

I mean, it kind of becomes asinine at that point.
Because the traits you guys are saying matter so much, don't when you critically look at typical lifeoutcomes.

Mindset, positivity, effort etc is all present in many many failures in life too.

But you ignore that and only pay attention to outliers and then think "all you must do is xyz to suceed" when that's not the case. Other things are at play deciding outcomes most of the time
post 1583940981 07-15-2019, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
Because the traits you guys are saying matter so much, don't when you critically look at typical lifeoutcomes.

Mindset, positivity, effort etc is all present in many many failures in life too.

But you ignore that and only pay attention to outliers and then think "all you must do is xyz to suceed" when that's not the case. Other things are at play deciding outcomes most of the time
I couldn't have said it better. Thank you brah!
People just try to cope as much as possible.
I don't blame them because it's mostly subconscious.
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post 1583941151 07-15-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted By nnodcvcker⏩
Bro you're the biggest copper in this thread, and I highly admire you for this skill. You know damn right that you won't have much success cold approaching in North America because you're short and black. It's great that you were able to develop a mindset that will help you feel good about yourself, but that mindset is not going to affect your success rate with women.
Copper? As in British slang for LEO or the metal?

Cope
Rope
Dope
Mope
Tape

Coper
Roper
Doper
Moper
Taper

Cop
Map
Rap
Tap
Pep

Copper
Mapper
Rapper
Tapper
Pepper

P > pper
Pe > per
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post 1583941991 07-15-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted By WhirlwindTobias⏩
Copper? As in British slang for LEO or the metal?

Cope
Rope
Dope
Mope
Tape

Coper
Roper
Doper
Moper
Taper

Cop
Map
Rap
Tap
Pep

Copper
Mapper
Rapper
Tapper
Pepper

P > pper
Pe > per
Typo brah.
My bad.
I meant coper, as someone who is really good at coping
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post 1583942661 07-15-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted By bobbydigitaloa⏩
Mindset/attitude is single-handedly the biggest factor in many things in life.

If you think something will be sh!t, I promise you it will be. You decide something is a certain way, your subconscious mind will immediately go to work to prove you right.

Sorry bud.
This X 100000000
post 1583942741 07-15-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
Because the traits you guys are saying matter so much, don't when you critically look at typical lifeoutcomes.

Mindset, positivity, effort etc is all present in many many failures in life too.

But you ignore that and only pay attention to outliers and then think "all you must do is xyz to suceed" when that's not the case. Other things are at play deciding outcomes most of the time
This is non-sequitur.

"Positivity is a characteristic in most failures, and is therefore not an important factor in success."

Such a statement is so incredibly generalized, broad, and devoid of any context that it literally cannot be argued the way you intend for it to be.

Basically what you're saying is that if anything is present in failure, it then becomes irrelevant.

So I know you're both out here celebrating the mental masturbation, but you're...

Still making outlandish statements.
post 1583943211 07-15-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
The only things that matter are what you can control. Mindset is one of the few aspects of your life that you can often control.

We don't have control over most things in our lives. Luck and genetics play a huge role in your life's outcome. If you feel that you're so limited in life by such factors that it's not even worth it to try, then lay down and rot by all means. But if you're not a weak livered soychild it does make sense to focus on what you can control to improve the outcome. Mindset is pretty high on that (limited) list imo.
repped - finally a reasonable and intelligent response.

As usual, people take things to the extreme...and these are the same dumb people who fail at everything in life.

Of course just "thinking positively" is not going to somehow send a message to the universe to drop $1million on your head.

If you are a hard working, dedicated individual, with in-demand skills - positive thinking will absolutely aid you in achieving more, if you have a negative mindset people catch onto it, they don't want to work with you, be around you, they won't think about you for a new promotion or a job in their new company etc. But if you are a valuable person, AND you are positive, other people who are also valuable / positive will see you as an asset, you become more valuable simply because you have a good outlook.

This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum, You can't be a bum sitting at home in mommy's basement playing video games saying to yourself "I spent 30 entire minutes, thinking positive, thinking about how I deserve $100million, how I'd be a good person with the money, I'd give some to charity, I'd start business, I'm a good person. If anyone should have $100million it should be me" and expect anything to happen. How clueless about life must you be.

However, alternatively - people selling these stupid "Power of positive thinking" type books are FOR SUREEEE just looking to profit on the self-help demographic of idiots who are like the example above ^^.


You know how the first 2 rules of online dating are:
1) Be attractive
2) Don't be unattractive

Lets add to the list
3) Develop valuable skills
4) Don't sit around being useless with no skills and no attempt to improve yourself while whining about how unfair life is while playing games and fapping to porn in Mommy's basement while mommy makes you tendies, does your laundry, and pays the bills.
post 1583943261 07-15-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
This is non-sequitur.

"Positivity is a characteristic in most failures, and is therefore not an important factor in success."

Such a statement is so incredibly generalized, broad, and devoid of any context that it literally cannot be argued the way you intend for it to be.

Basically what you're saying is that if anything is present in failure, it then becomes irrelevant.

So I know you're both out here celebrating the mental masturbation, but you're...

Still making outlandish statements.
Exactly, a statistics test will show you that a positive mindset is independent of wether or not someone succeeds. So it's not the thing that differentiate winners from losers.
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post 1583943751 07-15-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
This is non-sequitur.

"Positivity is a characteristic in most failures, and is therefore not an important factor in success."

Such a statement is so incredibly generalized, broad, and devoid of any context that it literally cannot be argued the way you intend for it to be.

Basically what you're saying is that if anything is present in failure, it then becomes irrelevant.

So I know you're both out here celebrating the mental masturbation, but you're...

Still making outlandish statements.
You guys are doing the same thing. Haven't seen any hard data backing up your claims.

But yes, this is a simple concept that should not be controversial. Survivorship bias is a real thing.

I didnt say those kinds of traits have no value, just that they don't matter as much you think when it comes to life outcomes. At the end of the day genetics, luck, random chance tends to determine your abilities and where you end up in life. Not mindset and effort.
post 1583943841 07-15-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted By nnodcvcker⏩
Exactly, a statistics test will show you that a positive mindset is independent of wether or not someone succeeds. So it's not the thing that differentiate winners from losers.
Well said, this is what I meant.

Same thing with effort and hard work. Data shows hardworking is not what gets people ahead, it tends to be environmental advantages, good luck, natural ability and potential etc.
post 1583944631 07-15-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted By nnodcvcker⏩
Exactly, a statistics test will show you that a positive mindset is independent of wether or not someone succeeds. So it's not the thing that differentiate winners from losers.
Absolutely false. There is an interaction effect which you are missing in your zeal to win an argument based on a straw man. Yes, someone who was born in an impoverished geographical area, with no savings, few skills, and a poor education will not become wealthy through the power of positive thinking, at least not without luck, help, and surreptitious events.

However, it does not follow that someone with potential will succeed at an endeavor completely independently of the attitude they adopt. Here's a simplified example. A guy, who is an ectomorph hard gainer, has trouble packing on muscle. He is surrounded by people who tell him his genetics make it impossible to gain lean tissue. If he goes into the endeavor with a negative mindset, this will in fact affect his training effort, his dietary habits, etc. If he goes into it with a positive mindset it will, on the other hand, impact his effort overall, and lead to gains. The modicum of success will have a further positive impact on his thinking, leading to further effort and success due to the feedback loop. Note that having a positive mindset here does not mean that he believes he can win the Olympia title. You seem to have something like the latter in mind, which is, as I noted, a straw man.
post 1583944811 07-15-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted By nnodcvcker⏩
Like I already said. Anybody with a brain knows that high level of sport is all about genetics and a lot of investment in development during early years. That's for 98% of top athletes. Confidence is the result of success. Not the other way around.
Success is the result of sustained effort. Success validates and reinforces that effort grants success. It’s a feedback loop. Why a positive mindset is so powerful is because it gives you the initial push to try new things and the determination to maintain that effort when there are alternatives that you would rather do in the present that are detrimental to your long term success.

I disagree about confidence. If you have good role models, confidence is initially instilled by others that see your unrealized potential, believe in your abilities, and verbally express that confidence in you. Parents, teachers, friends, and coaches do this all the time. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen someone throw their hands up in frustration and say ‘I can’t do it’ only to accomplish the task 2 minutes later after me looking in their eyes and telling them to take a deep breath, and focus because I know they can do it. Knowing that your effort even after you ‘gave up’ led to success builds confidence because you have expanded your threshold of frustration before you are willing to throw in the towel.
post 1583944981 07-15-2019, 01:08 PM
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I just give up. The cope is too strong. People love their faith oover facts.
It's hypocritical of me saying that because I believe in God.
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post 1583945951 07-15-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted By ChewYourFood⏩
Success is the result of sustained effort.
Only if you ignore all the many many many people who fail despite best their best effort
post 1583946031 07-15-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted By nnodcvcker⏩
I just give up. The cope is too strong. People love their faith oover facts.
It's hypocritical of me saying that because I believe in God.
They're brain washed. American society would collapse if the truth was known.
post 1583946301 07-15-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
You guys are doing the same thing. Haven't seen any hard data backing up your claims.

But yes, this is a simple concept that should not be controversial. Survivorship bias is a real thing.

I didnt say those kinds of traits have no value, just that they don't matter as much you think when it comes to life outcomes. At the end of the day genetics, luck, random chance tends to determine your abilities and where you end up in life. Not mindset and effort.
Stanford University has absolutely backed the claim that positive mindsets do have positive effects on neurocognitive mechanisms.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...56797617735528
Using a large behavioral sample of 240 children, we found that positive attitude toward math uniquely predicted math achievement, even after we accounted for multiple other cognitive-affective factors.
How about that, some scientific data that supports the following post;
Originally Posted By Rebel012⏩
Absolutely false. There is an interaction effect which you are missing in your zeal to win an argument based on a straw man. Yes, someone who was born in an impoverished geographical area, with no savings, few skills, and a poor education will not become wealthy through the power of positive thinking, at least not without luck, help, and surreptitious events.

However, it does not follow that someone with potential will succeed at an endeavor completely independently of the attitude they adopt. Here's a simplified example. A guy, who is an ectomorph hard gainer, has trouble packing on muscle. He is surrounded by people who tell him his genetics make it impossible to gain lean tissue. If he goes into the endeavor with a negative mindset, this will in fact affect his training effort, his dietary habits, etc. If he goes into it with a positive mindset it will, on the other hand, impact his effort overall, and lead to gains. The modicum of success will have a further positive impact on his thinking, leading to further effort and success due to the feedback loop. Note that having a positive mindset here does not mean that he believes he can win the Olympia title. You seem to have something like the latter in mind, which is, as I noted, a straw man.
Das it mane
Originally Posted By nnodcvcker⏩
I just give up. The cope is too strong. People love their faith oover facts.
It's hypocritical of me saying that because I believe in God.
You could always just admit you are making an overly generalized statement that is based on straw man conjecture.
post 1583947281 07-15-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
Stanford University has absolutely backed the claim that positive mindsets do have positive effects on neurocognitive mechanisms.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...56797617735528



How about that, some scientific data that supports the following post;



Das it mane



You could always just admit you are making an overly generalized statement that is based on straw man conjecture.
The Stanford example just shows kids that likes math did better because kids that hate math don't try.

But what I'd say is, someone who is outright bad at math wont be able fill his dream of being a math professor because he doesnt have what it takes. You need the ability too.

The biggest predictor of success in life is IQ and temperament, which are biologically driven traits you dint really control
post 1583948841 07-15-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
The Stanford example just shows kids that likes math did better because kids that hate math don't try.

But what I'd say is, someone who is outright bad at math wont be able fill his dream of being a math professor because he doesnt have what it takes. You need the ability too.

The biggest predictor of success in life is IQ and temperament, which are biologically driven traits you dint really control
Again with the ridiculous extreme examples. No one has ever said ability doesn't matter.
post 1583949491 07-15-2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
The Stanford example just shows kids that likes math did better because kids that hate math don't try.

But what I'd say is, someone who is outright bad at math wont be able fill his dream of being a math professor because he doesnt have what it takes. You need the ability too.

The biggest predictor of success in life is IQ and temperament, which are biologically driven traits you dint really control
Yes, the kids that had an interest and a passion for it did better... because they enjoyed it! Because they looked forward to learning it!

See below;
Originally Posted By Rebel012⏩
Again with the ridiculous extreme examples. No one has ever said ability doesn't matter.
This.

Nobody is saying everyone who wants to play baseball will be the next Babe Ruth.

But what we're saying is that a positive mindset can be beneficial to getting you into the AA's. And maybe, if you happen to be the next Babe Ruth, you'll have a higher chance of being spotted. But you aren't gonna get to the AA's by not believing in your ability.
post 1583951231 07-15-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
Yes, the kids that had an interest and a passion for it did better... because they enjoyed it! Because they looked forward to learning it!

See below;



This.

Nobody is saying everyone who wants to play baseball will be the next Babe Ruth.

But what we're saying is that a positive mindset can be beneficial to getting you into the AA's. And maybe, if you happen to be the next Babe Ruth, you'll have a higher chance of being spotted. But you aren't gonna get to the AA's by not believing in your ability.
I guess it depends what you consider success. I just think most people, regardless of what they do will end up around average/mediocre in life because that's most peoples max potential and nothing can change that.
post 1583952131 07-15-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
Well said, this is what I meant.

Same thing with effort and hard work. Data shows hardworking is not what gets people ahead, it tends to be environmental advantages, good luck, natural ability and potential etc.
Exactly and this is just another example of why mindset doesn't really matter for some. Sure mindset might get you some success, but how much is highly dependent on environment and other people. Just like i was saying earlier about cold approaching, some people can cold approach 100 times and have no success. Homeless people can apply at 100 different places and not get hired. At the end of the day it is all of the other factors that really matter. Mindset can only help.

I swear some people itt are either trolling or extremely naive and bluepilled on life.
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post 1583953271 07-15-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted By eod8989⏩
Exactly and this is just another example of why mindset doesn't really matter for some. Sure mindset might get you some success, but how much is highly dependent on environment and other people. Just like i was saying earlier about cold approaching, some people can cold approach 100 times and have no success. Homeless people can apply at 100 different places and not get hired. At the end of the day it is all of the other factors that really matter. Mindset can only help.

I swear some people itt are either trolling or extremely naive and bluepilled on life.
Its brainwashing. The American dream isnt compatible with reality.
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
Its brainwashing. The American dream isnt compatible with reality.
An example from your own life showing mindset matters: you sabotaged the one relationship you had because you went into it with a negative mindset due to massive insecurities. That mindset bled into your actions, you chased her away, and now here you are pontificating about how genetics determine everything.
post 1583956011 07-15-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted By Rebel012⏩
An example from your own life showing mindset matters: you sabotaged the one relationship you had because you went into it with a negative mindset due to massive insecurities. That mindset bled into your actions, you chased her away, and now here you are pontificating about how genetics determine everything.
Now if that’s not 100% reality and factual af I don’t know what is...

He wanted reality, he got it.
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Originally Posted By Rebel012⏩
An example from your own life showing mindset matters: you sabotaged the one relationship you had because you went into it with a negative mindset due to massive insecurities. That mindset bled into your actions, you chased her away, and now here you are pontificating about how genetics determine everything.
Did he ever deny that? You are quoting a post where we are talking about the American dream and brainwashing and you're just going to make some random comment like this? lol
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post 1583956491 07-15-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted By Rebel012⏩
An example from your own life showing mindset matters: you sabotaged the one relationship you had because you went into it with a negative mindset due to massive insecurities. That mindset bled into your actions, you chased her away, and now here you are pontificating about how genetics determine everything.
That wasnt mindset, it was an actual lack of relationship skills because ive never had one before. In other words, no mindset would have made a difference because objectively I didnt have the skills
post 1583957141 07-15-2019, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Nice backpedal.

It's exactly what you posted before, just do your best when the opportunity presents itself. That's why you ended up how you ended up ( if the story is true ).



Nah, the "Enlightened Ones" don't do that. They just call
I mean that's what happened, I don't understand what you want me to say. I understandably sucked because I was 25 and just in my first relationship. That's just the fact of what happened. Mindset wouldn't have mattered.
post 1583957931 07-15-2019, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted By BigBallsMcgee⏩
I mean that's what happened, I don't understand what you want me to say. I understandably sucked because I was 25 and just in my first relationship. That's just the fact of what happened. Mindset wouldn't have mattered.
Yes it would have pal, especially given the resources you had available to you. Multiple people on this forum were telling you to stop acting a certain way and assuming the worst, yet you didn't listen and ended up sabotaging yourself.
post 1583958351 07-15-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Nice backpedal.

It's exactly what you posted before, just do your best when the opportunity presents itself. That's why you ended up how you ended up ( if the story is true ).



It's not random, it's right on topic.



Nah, the "Enlightened Ones" don't do that. They just call people who don't subscribe to their lazy and bitter way of looking at life, retards and delusional.



The irony is that the above post isyourcope.
All you are doing is bringing up random chit to justify your crazy beliefs on this topic. Your ego is too strong to admit the truth, or you are just trolling. Fact is mindset can only help, you have no control over your environment, misfortunes or other people in this society. That is what this thread is about, is YOUR MINDSET DOES NOT GUARANTEE SUCCESS.
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post 1583958381 07-15-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted By Rebel012⏩
Yes it would have pal, especially given the resources you had available to you. Multiple people on this forum were telling you to stop acting a certain way and assuming the worst, yet you didn't listen and ended up sabotaging yourself.
That's true, but like I said it would have failed either way for other reasons anyway
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