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Forum » Misc Firearms Crew LXXV: It's Not the End of the World, But You Can See it From Here
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Thread: Misc Firearms Crew LXXV: It's Not the End of the World, But You Can See it From Here

post 1593050141 12-06-2019, 09:03 PM
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#8071
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
I'll bet like 98% of carriers would fail that with their actual concealed carry setup.
Some people argue that open carry is justified because a weapon under your clothes is less accessible. Even open, still not easy. They say to go from a resting stance to pull your weapon, be aimed and ready to fire in 2 seconds or less is very good, and honestly it's harder than a lot of people think. 2 seconds in that situation is a long f'in time. You don't have to be a 007 speed and accuracy for a firearm to be effective, but it helps.
Originally Posted By dopamine72⏩
Holy....

Craziest video I've seen yet to come out of this mess. My mind is obliterated how cops handled this, complete lack of regard for the many innocent civilians around. This is a disgrace.
Yes they are in a situation that is hairy no matter what. These guys committed armed robbery and then hijacked the UPS truck with the driver as hostage, then started the firefight with the police. I believe that it could have gone better but it could have been worse. Not really sure what a different reaction besides take them out quickly the police had once the two robbers started shooting. Let them shoot at people for how long or until how many are killed before they move in? Really sucks the UPS driver was killed, and sad the other man got killed. The only thing to be thankful for is that the two robbers got killed because the last thing we need is those two douchebags alive. Don't be surprised if there aren't protest, not for the two innocent victims, but the two thugs that did all of this. Read somewhere earlier where the brother of one of the shooters said he was a nice guy that just made a mistake.
post 1593050271 12-06-2019, 09:07 PM
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#8072
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Originally Posted By BigTimeOperator⏩
This is the rifle I want. $1049.00 though.





Marlin Model 1895SBL
When I was buying my Glock the other day the guy in front of me in the line was buying that exact rifle. The pics do not do it justice! It is a beautiful piece of machinery. Absolute Hnnnnnggggg. $1049 isn't that much for something like that honestly.
post 1593050371 12-06-2019, 09:09 PM
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#8073
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Surprise surprise at those cops
MFC

drum, it holds fifty, uh
post 1593050981 12-06-2019, 09:21 PM
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#8074
  1. Farley1324
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Originally Posted By Jasonw1178⏩
Some people argue that open carry is justified because a weapon under your clothes is less accessible.
Most drills allow for drawing from concealmentoran LE duty type level II+ retention open carry holster. Of course, almost nobody actually daily carries like that so it's not particularly relevant to may non-professionals...but I wouldn't question somebody who aced that test from an actual duty worthy (which is what should be used for open carry) retention holster.

Also, most people don't open carry because they realize it is only a matter of time until you find that one guy who will target you for the gun, and in the event of an incident, it forces your hand and you can't wait your turn so much when it is or becomes obvious you are armed. A single individual with a gun is a deterrent sure...to some people some of the time. But it's pretty easy to blindside a single individual out in public. Urban or suburban...eehhhh I've done it but man, you can't reasonably keep people from getting close to you and action beats reaction.
Originally Posted By Jasonw1178⏩
They say to go from a resting stance to pull your weapon, be aimed and ready to fire in 2 seconds or less is very good, and honestly it's harder than a lot of people think. 2 seconds in that situation is a long f'in time.
Fortunately in real self defense situations a surprising amount of the time being lightning mcqueen with the quickdraw isn't necessary. "Wait your turn". Even Proctor says to draw at a comfortable speed, example, hand speed you would use in normal circumstances to reach for a doorknob. Watching ASP regularly it does seem that a speed draw either isn't needed or is only 'needed' because you didn't choose the proper time to draw. So...2 seconds really seems just fine IMO. Consistently. Actual carry setup. From normal concealment. Hands at shoulders IMO best measure since feigning compliance to wait your turn is a very real thing that comes up a lot

And it is hard. 2.0 seconds is a commonly given standard of competence, repeatable, hit on target, from concealment with actual regular clothing and actual regular carry gear. 2.5 is acceptable, and 1.5 is very good/ahead of the curb. Sub 1.5 consistently is blazing and sub 1 is all star.

Originally Posted By Jasonw1178⏩
Yes they are in a situation that is hairy no matter what. These guys committed armed robbery and then hijacked the UPS truck with the driver as hostage, then started the firefight with the police. I believe that it could have gone better but it could have been worse. Not really sure what a different reaction besides take them out quickly the police had once the two robbers started shooting. Let them shoot at people for how long or until how many are killed before they move in? Really sucks the UPS driver was killed, and sad the other man got killed. The only thing to be thankful for is that the two robbers got killed because the last thing we need is those two douchebags alive. Don't be surprised if there aren't protest, not for the two innocent victims, but the two thugs that did all of this. Read somewhere earlier where the brother of one of the shooters said he was a nice guy that just made a mistake.
Follow at a little more distance and pick a better time and place to make your move.
post 1593051391 12-06-2019, 09:28 PM
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#8075
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Originally Posted By MoeBettuh⏩
Surprise surprise at those cops
Always the democrat districts have the chit tier 'OnLY CoPs ShOuLd HaVe GuNs" type of fudd LEO's that would fudge an operation so badly.

I bet the cop that killed the innocent civvies was probably a female cop
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post 1593051841 12-06-2019, 09:34 PM
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#8076
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
Follow at a little more distance and pick a better time and place to make your move.
This.

What an idiotic place to close in and have a shoot-out. If the cops felt they needed to just shoot the crap out of the truck to stop the situation . . . they couldn't have done that before they got into a stacked intersection filled with civilians?? Follow from a distance and wait. It's a miracle not more than two innocent people died there.

Using civilian, occupied vehicles for cover en masse like they did in inexcusable.
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post 1593057041 12-07-2019, 12:08 AM
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#8077
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Story time.

Tonight was practice night for my local league. After I'd shot 100 rounds of ammo, I decide to put a few of my "I think these will cycle" rounds from my blem reload box. This is stuff Ive made while calibrating powder charges or die position that should be within functional spec to run as range Ammo, but wasn't the config I was attempting to run a batch of.

About 15 rounds in, something goes really wrong. My G19 locks up about 1/2" from being in battery. The round waa too wide for the chamber. I could NOT move the slide no matter what I did to try clearing it.

The range instructor comes over and looks at the gun and tries to clear it. He somehow mistakes what's going on as a failure to eject a casing- NOT understanding it's a live round. My buddy and I hit the deck as he whips it around trying to clear it- at which point he has an "oh chit" moment of clarity that he's incorrectly evaluated the scenario.

Long story short, we all took turns attempting to jam the side into the lane table with all of our body weight. After literally jumping on it for 20 minutes, we somehow got it to break free and eject.

No more shooting blem loads. I don't even know what my plan B was? Load a gun with a hot round I the chamber in the car, then take it home and try prying it loose without shooting through my garage door?
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post 1593057811 12-07-2019, 12:35 AM
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#8078
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Many of the USPSA qualifier stages are as difficult, if not significantly more difficult than those air marshal metrics. Then your score on the USPSA qualifiers is an Elo rating system so it's relative to the best people.

Not knocking that air marshal qualifier, it looks tough and I wouldn't do very good at it (nor do I at the USPSA qualifiers). But to put things into perspective, I'm pretty sure that Mike Pannone is rated Master in Production USPSA, that's not a sleight against him. Mike is a great shooter and was part of creating the air marshal program.

Any ways, it looks fun and I'll give it a try. I think I can do well on a few of them. Been actually shooting regularly (twice a month) the past 3 months, whereas previous to that barely shot for like 2 years, so I'm grinding the rust off... though I wasn't that great to begin with.

Where can I get those targets?
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post 1593064081 12-07-2019, 05:27 AM
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#8079
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hi.
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post 1593066621 12-07-2019, 06:58 AM
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#8080
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post 1593067021 12-07-2019, 07:16 AM
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#8081
  1. gixxer0.6g
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Let's talk cans. And the double D kind are acceptable too. Looking for a 30 cal can for hunting rifles so I won't be running semi auto through it but it needs to be accurate. Anything in the $500 range?
Toxic Masculinity
post 1593069231 12-07-2019, 08:20 AM
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#8082
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Originally Posted By gixxer0.6g⏩
Let's talk cans. And the double D kind are acceptable too. Looking for a 30 cal can for hunting rifles so I won't be running semi auto through it but it needs to be accurate. Anything in the $500 range?
$500 is on the low end for cans, as far as I know--so might be in trade-off territory with that price point? There are a few options on the Silencershop site. Someone who knows a lot more about them than I do (which is several people) might have some budget suggestions or have a line on a sale. My Omega was more like $900.

https://www.silencershop.com/silence...st_order=price

There's an AAC model that is on promo for around that range and a GC comes with it.

https://www.silencershop.com/silence...ac-762-sd.html

Or a Silencerco Harvester

https://www.silencershop.com/silence...harvester.html
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post 1593069481 12-07-2019, 08:25 AM
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#8083
  1. Farley1324
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Originally Posted By Millz⏩
Many of the USPSA qualifier stages are as difficult, if not significantly more difficult than those air marshal metrics. Then your score on the USPSA qualifiers is an Elo rating system so it's relative to the best people.

Not knocking that air marshal qualifier, it looks tough and I wouldn't do very good at it (nor do I at the USPSA qualifiers). But to put things into perspective, I'm pretty sure that Mike Pannone is rated Master in Production USPSA, that's not a sleight against him. Mike is a great shooter and was part of creating the air marshal program.

Any ways, it looks fun and I'll give it a try. I think I can do well on a few of them. Been actually shooting regularly (twice a month) the past 3 months, whereas previous to that barely shot for like 2 years, so I'm grinding the rust off... though I wasn't that great to begin with.

Where can I get those targets?
How many of the USPSA qualifier courses are shot with legit EDC concealment gear and clothing?

These carry applicable tests aren't intended to separate out the best in the country or best in the world, though. They are commonly used as a judge of proficiency. There's a difference.

We are talking about, like, general "guys who go to the gym" strength standards, where say squatting 4 plates or benching 3 plates would be acing it and qualifies as "yeah, he's strong"...you're (with USPSA) talking about like an untested powerlifting federation's 2 ply national qualifying standard or something.
post 1593069531 12-07-2019, 08:26 AM
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#8084
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Originally Posted By gixxer0.6g⏩
Let's talk cans. And the double D kind are acceptable too. Looking for a 30 cal can for hunting rifles so I won't be running semi auto through it but it needs to be accurate. Anything in the $500 range?
AAC 7.62 SD is on sale at SilencerShop right now for $519 and a buddy of mine uses his for hunting. Seems to work well. All inconel baffle stack and a 9" can means it's going to be heavy but extremely durable.

https://www.silencershop.com/silence...ac-762-sd.html

I've been using a Sico Hybrid because I wanted one can that basically would work on everything. The only thing about Sico's cans is that the basic QD mount, ASR, has a bad rep for launching cans downrange. I went Keymo (Dead Air's system) and haven't looked back. Ex:



A couple of twists, you can move it to any rifle with a keymo muzzle device.

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post 1593069641 12-07-2019, 08:29 AM
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#8085
  1. Farley1324
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Originally Posted By gixxer0.6g⏩
Let's talk cans. And the double D kind are acceptable too. Looking for a 30 cal can for hunting rifles so I won't be running semi auto through it but it needs to be accurate. Anything in the $500 range?
There is the $200 tax stamp, and the wait. And you won't likely have many of these in your lifetime.

If there wasevera buy once cry once, this was it. Try not to shop on price. I mean, sure, it's hard to pony up $1,300 for a Surefire if it looks like a $700 AAC will do just fine, but...make damn sure you like the specs of the one you buy and it's not just the price tag that lures you. Get what you want/need.

It's probably going to be more like $800 entry and go up from there

I have an AAC 762 SDN-6. I am not as sure about AAC since they were bought by Remington, cleaned house, and moved...I think is what happened. They used to be local to me here in GA.

But I'd consider AAC still, generally, to be a fair starting point. Wouldn't get anything lesser.
post 1593072581 12-07-2019, 09:42 AM
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#8086
  1. benz5521
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
Arcademy has the MP2.0 compact for $350 plus a $75 gift card when you pick it up
They are practically giving them away. I don’t really want one but I feel like I need to at that point.
post 1593072641 12-07-2019, 09:43 AM
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#8087
  1. benz5521
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
How many of the USPSA qualifier courses are shot with legit EDC concealment gear and clothing?

These carry applicable tests aren't intended to separate out the best in the country or best in the world, though. They are commonly used as a judge of proficiency. There's a difference.

We are talking about, like, general "guys who go to the gym" strength standards, where say squatting 4 plates or benching 3 plates would be acing it and qualifies as "yeah, he's strong"...you're (with USPSA) talking about like an untested powerlifting federation's 2 ply national qualifying standard or something.
There’s a dude that became a USPSA GM from full concealment appendix I believe. Gabe White is his name I think.
post 1593073421 12-07-2019, 10:05 AM
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#8088
  1. Farley1324
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Originally Posted By benz5521⏩
There’s a dude that became a USPSA GM from full concealment appendix I believe. Gabe White is his name I think.
The core concept of these standards eludes you
post 1593075121 12-07-2019, 10:38 AM
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#8089
  1. gixxer0.6g
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Thanks guys. Stamp had already been taken care of. Just waiting for approval and shopping.


These pop cans are expensive. Bet they'd be around $200 if the govt would stay out of it
Toxic Masculinity
post 1593075201 12-07-2019, 10:39 AM
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#8090
  1. Farley1324
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Originally Posted By gixxer0.6g⏩
Thanks guys. Stamp had already been taken care of. Just waiting for approval and shopping.


These pop cans are expensive. Bet they'd be around $200 if the govt would stay out of it
...how do you get a stamp without buying the suppressor first? What?
post 1593076121 12-07-2019, 10:58 AM
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#8091
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Originally Posted By gixxer0.6g⏩
Thanks guys. Stamp had already been taken care of. Just waiting for approval and shopping.


These pop cans are expensive. Bet they'd be around $200 if the govt would stay out of it
That's not how stamps work - you buy the item by serial number. Sure you didn't get ripped off?
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post 1593076981 12-07-2019, 11:17 AM
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#8092
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
The core concept of these standards eludes you
The core concept of not being a dick eludes you.
post 1593077251 12-07-2019, 11:23 AM
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#8093
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Originally Posted By benz5521⏩
The core concept of not being a dick eludes you.
Fargument in...

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post 1593077381 12-07-2019, 11:26 AM
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#8094
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Pissening.
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post 1593077811 12-07-2019, 11:37 AM
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#8095
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ultimate test of skill is the BAER STANDARDS drill from concealment in under 7 seconds while yelling LARRY VICKERS
6 scoops of xf up2.0 a day
post 1593078191 12-07-2019, 11:44 AM
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#8096
  1. Farley1324
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Originally Posted By benz5521⏩
The core concept of not being a dick eludes you.
Says the guy implying we all suck because we can't ace the test he would also fail lol

It's a test presented as a very high level for a concealed carrier (so high the feds dropped it because too many air marshals failed)...stop saying it's not hard because the best competitors in the country could rock it
post 1593079611 12-07-2019, 12:15 PM
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#8097
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
How many of the USPSA qualifier courses are shot with legit EDC concealment gear and clothing?

These carry applicable tests aren't intended to separate out the best in the country or best in the world, though. They are commonly used as a judge of proficiency. There's a difference.

We are talking about, like, general "guys who go to the gym" strength standards, where say squatting 4 plates or benching 3 plates would be acing it and qualifies as "yeah, he's strong"...you're (with USPSA) talking about like an untested powerlifting federation's 2 ply national qualifying standard or something.
This is a fair assessment. When I shot the Master Pistol Instructor course at our academy it was a similar methodology. The qualification is 30 round course of fire with a mix of timed drills at distances between 5-25yrds. There is an allowance for 3 misses. 90% to pass. Because I shoot USPSA I found it pretty easy to smoke the times but we typically see a 40-50% fail rate in that course despite that the majority in attendance are usually experienced LE instructors.

There is a very wide margin between competitive shooting and proficiency. I would go as far as saying the average B class USPSA competitor would smoke 99% of the LE world (assuming the individual didn't compete actively themselves). That's not a knock on LE and it's strictly on shooting proficiency NOT tactics. I've shot alongside SF guys domestic and foreign, LE, SWAT, etc and usually had no problem hanging with them on the range. A good friend of mine is a USPSA GM and the skill gap is so wide I don't even feel like we're in the same sport. The one instance I beat him on a stage was a colossal ****up on his part that a few of us still give him **** for.

Those CCW standards look like fun. I may give them a run on the next range trip. Most of them I'm confident I can hit easily but a few are pretty tight. I may be moving away from my P365 for winter carry though. I spend so much time on an XSeries P320 that I will likely go to an XCompact in the near future.
post 1593080261 12-07-2019, 12:30 PM
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#8098
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Just yelled SIG SOUR so loud the windows started shaking
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post 1593081131 12-07-2019, 12:53 PM
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#8099
  1. Ikeman83
  2. It's not the gun, stupid.
  1. Ikeman83
  2. It's not the gun, stupid.
  3. Join Date: Aug 2012
  4. Location: Newport, Rhode Island, United States
  5. Posts: 40,274
  6. Rep Power: 276405
I'm torn between taking the Advanced Combative Carbine CQC and Midrange classes at Ridgeline this year.

Wonder if I can get the company to help...

Might take one of the defensive rifle classes at Sig. Better drive if nothing else.

Put the tree up:









Florida Crew as of 3/21

What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" are you having trouble with?

Misc Firearms Crew
post 1593083711 12-07-2019, 01:47 PM
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#8100
  1. benz5521
  2. Registered User
  1. benz5521
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Jan 2008
  4. Location: New York, United States
  5. Posts: 12,742
  6. Rep Power: 84746
I just traded in an XS Max for a regular 11 pro. I think I’m going to regret this. Everything feels small as fuark. That’s what she said.
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