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Forum » Airlines want a bailout
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Thread: Airlines want a bailout

post 1600047171 03-17-2020, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted By Huyistic⏩
just lol if u aint got a private jet and helicopter in 2020
/thread
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post 1600047281 03-17-2020, 06:45 PM
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yea i had to cancel my flights bc of the virus and they wouldnt fully refund me. they can fist themselves
post 1600048081 03-17-2020, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted By yewotm8⏩
To anybody complaining about how airlines are a vital industry and them going out of business would be bad: If the airline goes bankrupt, its assets are sold off for pennies on the dollar. Some enterprising individuals will come in and buy all the planes, hangars, and offices, and re-hire mostly the same people who were working there before. Prices will be way lower at first, because these guys are new and got their chit for cheap. Then gradually they will start to increase back up to where they were before. If some airlines go bankrupt and are unable to provide service, other airlines will be able to charge higher prices again, and will not need to be bailed out. Competition will continue to be high, airlines will work even harder to get your business, and the supply shortage will last for weeks.

A bailout does not help you at all. It only helps the people who currently own the company. And they are the ones who ****ed up.
Most stupid post in the thread
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600048151 03-17-2020, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted By yewotm8⏩
A bailout does not help you at all. It only helps the people who currently own the company. And they are the ones who ****ed up.
Didn't know the CEOs of all the airlines got together to create a virus and to spread mass panic
post 1600048321 03-17-2020, 07:03 PM
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First airlines, then restaurants, then who? This effects most industries, so where do we stop?
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post 1600048871 03-17-2020, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted By dannyg1217⏩
First airlines, then restaurants, then who? This effects most industries, so where do we stop?
Whoever needs financing.. it’s not a gift it’s a loan
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600049021 03-17-2020, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted By dannyg1217⏩
First airlines, then restaurants, then who? This effects most industries, so where do we stop?
Think of it like a silent auction with corporations bidding for help from politicians. They're all going to be begging, but darden foods is much lower on the food chain someone like goldman sachs or Tesla.
post 1600049041 03-17-2020, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted By VegasLifter26⏩
Whoever needs financing.. it’s not a gift it’s a loan
How many automakers repaid their loans to the original agreement? Hint, probably 1
post 1600052271 03-17-2020, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted By Airbased⏩
How many automakers repaid their loans to the original agreement? Hint, probably 1
Gm,Chrysler , and ford
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600054471 03-17-2020, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted By VegasLifter26⏩
Gm,Chrysler , and ford
Care to explain?

"Although Chrysler repaid their loans, the Treasury sold its 6% stake in the company to Fiat at a $1.3 billion loss."

"GM total loan portion repaid with interest to U.S. & Canadian governments as of April 21, 2010, ; $2.1 billion in preferred stock and 61 percent common equity share outstanding"


Ford applied under a different program and I don't care to calculate it
post 1600055011 03-17-2020, 08:48 PM
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Capitalism isn't the problem, it's the market and the unsustainable "infinite growth" model. Companies invest every last dollar in growing the company which means no contingency, the minute things turn South they fire thousands of people and the tax payers bail them out.

Even writing that out seems like such common sense it's insane we pretend for years like things can just keep going up forever.
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post 1600056011 03-17-2020, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted By Airbased⏩
Care to explain?

"Although Chrysler repaid their loans, the Treasury sold its 6% stake in the company to Fiat at a $1.3 billion loss."

"GM total loan portion repaid with interest to U.S. & Canadian governments as of April 21, 2010, ; $2.1 billion in preferred stock and 61 percent common equity share outstanding"


Ford applied under a different program and I don't care to calculate it
Ill keep it simple because the TARP plan (like any other bailout) is extremely complex. It takes dozens of lawmakers to write it out and then both sides have to come to terms and agree on it..Most people jsut read headlines and see the word "bailout" and think it means the government is gifting corporations billions of dollars for free.....thats not the case..its a loan (and GM paid 7% interest btw)

(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600056541 03-17-2020, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted By ironicinori⏩
Capitalism isn't the problem, it's the market and the unsustainable "infinite growth" model. Companies invest every last dollar in growing the company which means no contingency, the minute things turn South they fire thousands of people and the tax payers bail them out.

Even writing that out seems like such common sense it's insane we pretend for years like things can just keep going up forever.
Do humans ever stop evolving? No ...certain markets die out but there will always be emerging markets. Certain companies hit their market cap and then instead of investing money into growth they raise their dividend and distribute to shareholders. (Tobacco industry for example)
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600056711 03-17-2020, 09:07 PM
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They should be bailed with a loan + interest + penalty.
post 1600057101 03-17-2020, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted By LooksMaximus⏩
Inb4 every corporation, bank, IG thot, single mother, welfare scumbag and illegal immigrant gets a special bailout package except for working-class and middle-class tax-paying men. JFL.
You'd just spend it on a filthy pair of panties anyway lol.
post 1600057111 03-17-2020, 09:11 PM
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Ive never witnessed a stock get just so pulverized like boeing. Literally everything that could go wrong, did, and that was before the coronavirus lmao
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post 1600057401 03-17-2020, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted By brahskimoseph⏩
Ive never witnessed a stock get just so pulverized like boeing. Literally everything that could go wrong, did, and that was before the coronavirus lmao
Volkswagen group lol.

boeing deserves it. fuk boeing.
post 1600059851 03-17-2020, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted By VegasLifter26⏩
Ill keep it simple because the TARP plan (like any other bailout) is extremely complex. It takes dozens of lawmakers to write it out and then both sides have to come to terms and agree on it..Most people jsut read headlines and see the word "bailout" and think it means the government is gifting corporations billions of dollars for free.....thats not the case..its a loan (and GM paid 7% interest btw)

Ok, but the auto makers weren't the only companies in TARP. I don't care about the word bailout, the numbers speak for themselves
post 1600060541 03-17-2020, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted By Airbased⏩
Ok, but the auto makers weren't the only companies in TARP. I don't care about the word bailout, the numbers speak for themselves
Here are numbers for the entire Troubled Asset Relief Program in 2008
The Treasury is authorized to spend $475 billion of the TARP (In July 2010, the financial regulation overhaul reduced TARP’s spending cap to $475 billion from the original $700 billion.). It has created 13 different programs, to which it has promised $578 billion.

The government committed bailout money to 982 recipients. Those recipients have received a total of $442 billion. A total of $390 billion has been returned.

The Treasury has been earning a return on most of the TARP money invested or loaned. So far, the total return is: $52.5 Billion.

The main sources of that revenue are $23.1 billion through dividend or interest payments, $19.7 billion from sales of equity or other assets that Treasury acquired (mostly stock in Citigroup); and $9.63 billion through stock warrants which Treasury received as part of most of the investments. When companies pay back the TARP investment, the warrants are either sold back to the company or auctioned off.

When those revenues are taken into account, the government's profit totals $630 million.

While the Treasury has paid out money to 982 recipients, only 780 of those received funds via investments meant to return money to taxpayers. The rest received subsidies through TARP’s housing programs – that money (so far totaling $30.4 billion) isn’t coming back.

Of the 780 investments made by the Treasury, 637 have resulted in a profit. 138 of the investments resulted in a loss. So far, the profits amount to $48.3 billion, while the losses amount to $17.2 billion. 5 of the investments are still outstanding.
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600061091 03-17-2020, 10:22 PM
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That shows government profit is 630 million. Before, you quoted 15.3 billion profit. Which one is true? I may be misunderstanding
post 1600061641 03-17-2020, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted By 8pilot8⏩
How about you take some of the billions of dollars you made, making us all pay for our first and second checked bag, or banning checked bags, for crappy meals, for paying to select any seat, for being hours delayed and not giving any credit, retrofitting old planes to pack in more tiny seats and fist yourselves?

American Airlines in 2015, made a$7.6 billion profit— compared, for example, to profits of about $500 million in 2007 and less than $250 million in 2006. It earned billions in profit annually for the rest of the decade.
OOf, OP went in dry.

It's funny how capitalism rules & market freedom rules when they are raking in cash, but all of a sudden the public they made the money off is expected to bail them out with federal tax money whenever they face a loss...

Oil is cheaper than ever, they should be able to run at a profit once travel restarts.

If they cant survive a few months of hardship then they deserve to go down. Some airlines should go bust. Hard times are supposed to winnow out less effective companies.
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post 1600062221 03-17-2020, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Airbased⏩
That shows government profit is 630 million. Before, you quoted 15.3 billion profit. Which one is true? I may be misunderstanding
Well the last sentence of the paragraph shows 48.3b in profits and 17.2b in losses, with 5 investments outstanding. im reading a few different sources, im seeing 15 billion as the general consensus for the total profit. BUt the point of TARP wasnt even to make a profit it was to stabilize the financial and auto sectors and save jobs, and prevent an entire economic collapse that would take decades to recover from. Im obviously against bonuses for wallstreet execs..., the only argument I am making is trying to shed some light on what a "bailout" really is ...(a loan or an investment made by the US govt, not a free handout) and also showing that the last major bailout did in fact work..Also our country has been doing bailouts since 1792..its not something new
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600063061 03-17-2020, 11:05 PM
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A song as old as the republic itself: private profits, socialized losses. Spoiler alert - that aint capitalism. Companies need to be able to fail in a so called capitalism.

For those talking about capitalism, remind again what it looks like? Haven't seen that **** in America since the early 2000s, maybe even earlier. Something about a 'free market' that can correct itself? Please tell me more about this creature.
post 1600063651 03-17-2020, 11:23 PM
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Unfettered capitalism. Profits are 7.6 billion but all of it goes back to shareholders. Companies have no failsafes.
post 1600063751 03-17-2020, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted By Jaroctor⏩
Unfettered capitalism. Profits are 7.6 billion but all of it goes back to shareholders. Companies have no failsafes.
I would add its the effect of short termism as well. IE, execs are focused on next month, next quarter, next bonus payout, etc (due to shareholders). It creates piss poor incentive to plan for the future.
post 1600064081 03-17-2020, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted By FinBra⏩
I would add its the effect of short termism as well. IE, execs are focused on next month, next quarter, next bonus payout, etc (due to shareholders). It creates piss poor incentive to plan for the future.
It helps when they know they can extort tax payers for billions the instant they hit a rough patch.
post 1600064801 03-17-2020, 11:50 PM
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The bailouts wouldn't be so bad if they just fired the whole executive team without any severance packages after it was done. Lmao at failing at your job and still getting your bonuses, u wot.
post 1600066031 03-18-2020, 12:20 AM
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fuk them
post 1600066271 03-18-2020, 12:26 AM
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This is unsurprising

I read an interesting report the other day that said 70% of airlines would be bankrupt by May unless strong govt action is taken. If not, the post corona aviation world looks a lot more static, protectionist and anti-consumer.

It's unsurprising. Airlines operate on razor-thin margins and need to operate at immense scale. They are terribly fragile to any drop in demand.....
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post 1600066841 03-18-2020, 12:43 AM
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#150
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You need an air industry and if they need a bailout to mothball excess equipment and maintain a skeleton service, so be it. This contrasts to say the restaurant or tourism industry, which you don’t need in the same way and can expose to the full force cruel cold winds of capitalism.
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