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Forum » Aren't all these quarantines delaying herd immunity?
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Thread: Aren't all these quarantines delaying herd immunity?

post 1601890271 04-07-2020, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted By SmashinYoungVag⏩
Yes it spreads it out in the meantime. But what happens when daily life resumes in may/June or whenever it does happen? Are we not gonna see a massive surge and a round two of this?
But even that chops it in half, doesn't it? Plus all these companies that are producing needed equipment in the meantime.

I dont have any numbers or anything like that, but I tend to agree with you. I think there will be better testing etc by then - or at least a more accurate model once western (ie not the Chinese numbers which most think are unreliable) numbers are able give a complete picture.
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post 1601890481 04-07-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted By DrewDarden⏩
I’m not interested in your opinion.

You were making statements about political decisions, and I corrected you.
You didn't correct anything, you gave an entirely false statement completely out of context.
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post 1601890711 04-07-2020, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By sooby⏩
the decision to lockdown however is based on the recommendations of medical experts, you can't really separate the two. Fauci also himself stated that the country needs to be on national lockdown.
Yes, because that would be the most effective way of containing the spread. They are experts in that one factor, it doesn't mean it's the only factor to consider. Economics experts would say that we need to open up the economy, because that would be the best way to avoid a recession - but we don't only listen to them because the economy is not the only factor.

We need to combine information from various experts in different fields and come to a conclusion based on that.
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post 1601890751 04-07-2020, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By sooby⏩
the decision to lockdown however is based on the recommendations of medical experts, you can't really separate the two. Fauci also himself stated that the country needs to be on national lockdown.
Dr. Fauci is also not an economist and does not know the implications it will have on peoples health and wellbeing with an economy collapsed. His scope of view is within the medical field and peoples wellness in that regard. I am also not an expert on the economy and have not studies extensively over economical theories and what the extent of this collapse will be but I have seen some experts in that field say this can be far more grave and lasting than the exposure to this virus could be.

Thats why the politicians need to take EVERY experts advice into account and make a decision based on all of the facts and projections. But pussified citizens thinking immediate loss is more immoral than long term loss ruin it because they are the voters, and most Americans only see immediacy and short term and cant picture what will happen in 2 months, 6 months, 1 year.
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post 1601890791 04-07-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted By proteinsnake⏩
Yes, because that would be the most effective way of containing the spread. They are experts in that one factor, it doesn't mean it's the only factor to consider. Economics experts would say that we need to open up the economy, because that would be the best way to avoid a recession - but we don't only listen to them because the economy is not the only factor.

We need to combine information from various experts in different fields and come to a conclusion based on that.
Do you not think that's what they did before arriving at this course of action?

Srs question btw, I'm not being sarcastic.
Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
Dr. Fauci is also not an economist and does not know the implications it will have on peoples health and wellbeing with an economy collapsed. His scope of view is within the medical field and peoples wellness in that regard. I am also not an expert on the economy and have not studies extensively over economical theories and what the extent of this collapse will be but I have seen some experts in that field say this can be far more grave and lasting than the exposure to this virus could be.

Thats why the politicians need to take EVERY experts advice into account and make a decision based on all of the facts and projections. But pussified citizens thinking immediate loss is more immoral than long term loss ruin it because they are the voters, and most Americans only see immediacy and short term and cant picture what will happen in 2 months, 6 months, 1 year.
Same question to you. STRONG wizard above you btw, fuark.
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post 1601890901 04-07-2020, 12:53 PM
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size of viral load matters too. bigger load=bigger symptoms

they were thinking of injecting a small viral load in people so they can get infected with mild symptoms and develop antibodies for it.
post 1601891011 04-07-2020, 12:53 PM
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Yes OP you're correct. We're basically destroying the economy to save some lives.
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post 1601892811 04-07-2020, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted By MrBourbon⏩
Do you not think that's what they did before arriving at this course of action?

Srs question btw, I'm not being sarcastic.



Same question to you. STRONG wizard above you btw, fuark.
no, I think their main concern is appeasing voters and even the government is mostly focused on short term and not long term because of the upcoming election. They dont want to do whats best for the long term because it can be terrifying in the short term, as long as they make the short term look like things are being managed well, they can get re elected.
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post 1601917871 04-07-2020, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
no, I think their main concern is appeasing voters and even the government is mostly focused on short term and not long term because of the upcoming election. They dont want to do whats best for the long term because it can be terrifying in the short term, as long as they make the short term look like things are being managed well, they can get re elected.
So you think the fact November elections are coming up is giving undue influence? Again, legit question.
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post 1601953881 04-08-2020, 06:19 AM
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Now it appears that getting covid 19 may not inter any immunity [ this is why we listen to recommendations from experts instead of forming our own opinions out of ignorance ];

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...patients-much;

"Since the early days of the outbreak, we've seen reports about people being reinfected with the virus (though in some cases there were doubts about whether the virus ever really left). Well, now, a team of researchers at Fudan University in Shanghai has discovered that an alarmingly high number of recovered patients whom they've tested show low, or no, levels of the virus antibodies in their blood. That means a sizable chunk of those who are infected will be vulnerable to reinfection.

In other words, if these findings are confirmed, the hoped-for "herd immunity" that is supposed to help us get things back to normal in the time between now and however long it takes researchers to mass produce a vaccine simply isn't going to materialize"
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post 1601954061 04-08-2020, 06:23 AM
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The countries should be able to vote


Open everything, go baxk to work and risk it

Or

Self quaratine and drag it out for months on end


Let democracy do it's job
Fck u james
post 1601954201 04-08-2020, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted By KirkMcquest⏩
Now it appears that getting covid 19 may not inter any immunity [ this is why we listen to recommendations from experts instead of forming our own opinions out of ignorance ];

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...patients-much;

"Since the early days of the outbreak, we've seen reports about people being reinfected with the virus (though in some cases there were doubts about whether the virus ever really left). Well, now, a team of researchers at Fudan University in Shanghai has discovered that an alarmingly high number of recovered patients whom they've tested show low, or no, levels of the virus antibodies in their blood. That means a sizable chunk of those who are infected will be vulnerable to reinfection.

In other words, if these findings are confirmed, the hoped-for "herd immunity" that is supposed to help us get things back to normal in the time between now and however long it takes researchers to mass produce a vaccine simply isn't going to materialize"
Sounds like we need to go back to work and just understand that this **** is among us and continue to be as hygenic as possible. We can't stay shutdown until the vaccine is developed and delivered it's not an option.
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post 1601954221 04-08-2020, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted By Gringo12⏩
The countries should be able to vote


Open everything, go baxk to work and risk it

Or

Self quaratine and drag it out for months on end


Let democracy do it's job
Not when we are dealing with an unknown. People dont know what they are voting for.
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post 1601954301 04-08-2020, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted By JoshSP1985⏩
Sounds like we need to go back to work and just understand that this **** is among us and continue to be as hygenic as possible. We can't stay shutdown until the vaccine is developed and delivered it's not an option.
Sounds to me like we need more study and to listen to the advice from people who know what they are talking about.
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post 1601954331 04-08-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted By KirkMcquest⏩
Not when we are dealing with an unknown. People dont know what they are voting for.
Well that's not how a democracy works. I'd bet 90% of the population doesn't know how the economy works and yet were still expected to vote for new leaders ?
Fck u james
post 1601954361 04-08-2020, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
They decided against herd immunity because of public outcry & healthcare capability of handling large amounts of dead (UK estimated 250k dead vs 20k).

The lockdown will be staggered in its loosening to avoid several peaks however its said outbreaks will reappear and small sections of society may still need to be locked down.
but what about all the people literally dying from not getting vaccinated that we always heard about before this? Where are those people?
Originally Posted By Gringo12⏩
Well that's not how a democracy works. I'd bet 90% of the population doesn't know how the economy works and yet were still expected to vote for new leaders ?
If 90% of the population knew we were in a giant ponzi scheme of debt where none of their physical money even exists for 10% of the population, there would be mass chaos I think, or at least a good change of government and the abolishing of the fed and fractional reserve banking.
post 1601954511 04-08-2020, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted By Gringo12⏩
Well that's not how a democracy works. I'd bet 90% of the population doesn't know how the economy works and yet were still expected to vote for new leaders ?
Well thats true. Then again in a war people don't "vote" to get out or in.
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post 1601954601 04-08-2020, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted By Devils⏩
but what about all the people literally dying from not getting vaccinated that we always heard about before this? Where are those people?
You mean the people that aren't vaccinated against the flu?

My assumption would be they're dying of the rona. Or at least categorized as dying of the Rona since it's just a flu that rapes one's respiratory system.
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post 1601954841 04-08-2020, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
You mean the people that aren't vaccinated against the flu?
My assumption would be they're dying of the rona. Or at least categorized as dying of the Rona since it's just a flu that rapes one's respiratory system.
Well it's like trying to vaccinate against the common cold or the flu, It mutates too quickly for the vaccinations to even be effective.
post 1601954881 04-08-2020, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted By KirkMcquest⏩
Now it appears that getting covid 19 may not inter any immunity [ this is why we listen to recommendations from experts instead of forming our own opinions out of ignorance ];

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...patients-much;

"Since the early days of the outbreak, we've seen reports about people being reinfected with the virus (though in some cases there were doubts about whether the virus ever really left). Well, now, a team of researchers at Fudan University in Shanghai has discovered that an alarmingly high number of recovered patients whom they've tested show low, or no, levels of the virus antibodies in their blood. That means a sizable chunk of those who are infected will be vulnerable to reinfection.

In other words, if these findings are confirmed, the hoped-for "herd immunity" that is supposed to help us get things back to normal in the time between now and however long it takes researchers to mass produce a vaccine simply isn't going to materialize"
I wouldn't trust that, the chinese sent unreliable testing kits to the UK, theres a possibility that the same scientist could be using bad antibody testing kits.
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post 1601955041 04-08-2020, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted By dannyg1217⏩
I wouldn't trust that, the chinese sent unreliable testing kits to the UK, theres a possibility that the same scientist could be using bad antibody testing kits.
Possibility.

How common is it for a human body to defeat a virus but not develop anti-bodies? It kind of makes no sense how that is even physically possible but I'm definitely not a medical professional.
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post 1601955281 04-08-2020, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted By Devils⏩
Well it's like trying to vaccinate against the common cold or the flu, It mutates too quickly for the vaccinations to even be effective.
I believe Corona has been mutating slower than expected (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...g-2020-3%3famp)

Also, am I wrong in assuming a corona vaccine is more effective vs a mutated Corona than no vaccine as per the flu vaccination in children and death by flu stats in first world European countries.
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post 1601956041 04-08-2020, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
I believe Corona has been mutating slower than expected (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...g-2020-3%3famp)
It's early to tell, but I believe they have already identified multiple strains, also we're talking about something that's only been in circulation for 4-5 months, there will be more data to work off once we get to 20m+ infections.

"Influenza is a highly contagious respiratory illness that is responsible for significant morbidity and mortality. Approximately 9% of the world’s population is affected annually, with up to 1 billion infections, 3 to 5 million severe cases, and 300,000 to 500,000 deaths each year.1–3

In the U.S. alone, nearly 20% of the population is affected. On average, 25 to 50 million documented influenza cases, 225,000 hospitalizations, and ultimately more than 20,000 deaths occur every year.1,2,4–7"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3278149/


Imagine COVID-19 with 20% of the US population affected, it would be complete anarchy.
post 1601956541 04-08-2020, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted By Devils⏩
It's early to tell, but I believe they have already identified multiple strains, also we're talking about something that's only been in circulation for 4-5 months, there will be more data to work off once we get to 20m+ infections.

"Influenza is a highly contagious respiratory illness that is responsible for significant morbidity and mortality. Approximately 9% of the world’s population is affected annually, with up to 1 billion infections, 3 to 5 million severe cases, and 300,000 to 500,000 deaths each year.1–3

In the U.S. alone, nearly 20% of the population is affected. On average, 25 to 50 million documented influenza cases, 225,000 hospitalizations, and ultimately more than 20,000 deaths occur every year.1,2,4–7"

Imagine COVID-19 with 20% of the US population affected, it would be complete anarchy.
Unless it hits Africa & India it won't clock those numbers imo. And even if it did hit Africa & India they'd probably not report them much like China.

I do agree it's early to tell but the virology of the influenza virus & the corresponding vaccinations really do set a template as to how a vaccination of one strain would offer a certain % of immunity against other strains.

I might be assuming the role of an optimist but in my opinion a belief to the contrary is a full blown end of the world panic-cel mindset.

Re your edit, that's the point of the lockdown & social spreading - is that what it's called lmfao can't even remember. Social distancing
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post 1601956991 04-08-2020, 07:09 AM
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The plan is to lock everyone down for 18 months but they arent going to come out and say that. It will always be "just another few weeks, just another month, we will have a vaccine soon"

The real truth is that there won't be a vaccine in 18 months either and then we are really gonna be screwed
post 1601961631 04-08-2020, 08:13 AM
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You don't get rid of corona, it's been around in other forms for ages. You get treatment for it and that's that. Your first mistake is thinking it's some high virulent plague that needs eradicating. It's not, it will be seasonal like all the other strains.

There are already several proven cures, there's no mystery behind it, it's just it takes a long time for approval. By then, if countries still stick to stringent measures even when they are barely affected then they will suffer other consequences, not just economic but social. It's been one big fuking circus and a stain on humanity, and the powers are loving these testing grounds - they are taking notes.
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Originally Posted By Fang2⏩
If this thing is airborne, then all of us will get it whether we want to or not.
is this true? I cannot afford to get this/ honestly dont think ill make it through it
post 1601974001 04-08-2020, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted By KirkMcquest⏩
Now it appears that getting covid 19 may not inter any immunity [ this is why we listen to recommendations from experts instead of forming our own opinions out of ignorance ];

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...patients-much;

"Since the early days of the outbreak, we've seen reports about people being reinfected with the virus (though in some cases there were doubts about whether the virus ever really left). Well, now, a team of researchers at Fudan University in Shanghai has discovered that an alarmingly high number of recovered patients whom they've tested show low, or no, levels of the virus antibodies in their blood. That means a sizable chunk of those who are infected will be vulnerable to reinfection.

In other words, if these findings are confirmed, the hoped-for "herd immunity" that is supposed to help us get things back to normal in the time between now and however long it takes researchers to mass produce a vaccine simply isn't going to materialize"
Seems to be a page not found. Regardless, this appears to be referring to a pre-print out of Fudan University in China. A few things- it is rash to jump onto conclusions from papers before review, second the paper itself acknowledges its limitations, and third even if everything was legit, this still would not paint a complete picture regarding something like herd immunity.

Also, the general tone of speaking for all the experts is not productive. For the record there are experts out there saying different things (to take one example, referred to in this threadhttps://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=178254301, a phd working in biostatistics and epidemiology for decades), so to be shutting down any and all discourse because "the experts say X" is not helpful.
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post 1601974241 04-08-2020, 10:44 AM
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Heard immunity has been proven not to work, look at New York and Spain, both are losing people like crazy.
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#90
  1. menseks
  2. don't be scared homie
  1. menseks
  2. don't be scared homie
  3. Join Date: Aug 2013
  4. Posts: 10,274
  5. Rep Power: 29004
herd immunity is pretty much code for "if they die, they die" at this point. sure some people are immune, but a lot are not and they will die. i'm just not sure what the point of it is without a proper vaccine.

herd immunity will only work for everyone if people are properly vaccinated, ie. as protected as they can be.

without a vaccine, it's just survival of the fittest.
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