Improvement is improvement, and there is SOLID overlap between improving aspects of your life for yourself that carry over into women (finances, health, etc).

HOWEVER, I believe there is this falsehood that if you dress better, work on hobbies, work on social skills, etc that you're success with women will increase. Key point - it will ONLY increase if the things you improve are to the point where it matters to most women. Also, improving said things in the absence of having other required things (outside of your control) will often result in no material progress.


Here's a good example:

-Bret is a 5'6" guy with OK social skills, a decent job, decently confident. he is your run of the mill guy. he is struggling with women so he hears the advice to "improve". he gets better at banter, get more confident, improves his career, gets ripped. However, he notices that his success with women only increases marginally, or not at all. He is forgetting that he is 5'6" and that is a limiting factor for a lot of women, no matter how much he improves. he continues to work on himself, and invests even more time and energy. taking classes on picking up women, joining toastmasters in order to not just be a confident speaker, but be incredibly charismatic. He finally gets some decent success, but at the cost of immense investment of time, energy, and money.

-Dan is 5'11", overweight, decent job, and decently confident. he is your run of the mill guy. he is struggling with women and decides to improve. he gets better at banter, get more confident, improves his career, gets ripped. suddenly women seem to approach him. women seem to respond way more positively to him, even during normal conversation. this adds to his confidence. he begins to hear from people about certain girls having crushes on him, calling him "hot" saying "wow, dan, looks good now what happened". Dan looks at old versus new photos of himself and notices that he has rockin facial aesthetics underneath the fat in his face. Obviously, he can talk to women much better now and has more to offer, but he never had women approaching him unsolicited before without getting to know his personality. its almost like things "just happen for him"


things that will make it "easy" for you to attract women. If you have these things or improve to have these things, all you need is basic social skills and your success will skyrocket
-Good Height
-Good Facial Aesthetics
-Masculine Frame/Image

things that will require men to have to invest a significant amount of energy/time/etc in order to get the same level of success as the above. example - you will need to be insanely good a game/confidence/etc in order to have decent success
-short
-smaller frame/etc
-poor facial aesthetics (less so if you are tall)
-general feminine appearance


TL;DR - You can either be tall/good looking/masculine and just be your confident self or be ugly/feminine/smaller framed etc and have to invest a significant amount of time, energy, and money to have a similar level of success.

It would be nice to see you prove or disprove that by personal experience.

-Bret is a 5'6" guy with OK social skills, a decent job, decently confident. he is your run of the mill guy. he is struggling with women so he hears the advice to "improve". he gets better at banter, get more confident, improves his career, gets ripped. However, he notices that his success with women only increases marginally, or not at all. He is forgetting that he is 5'6" and that is a limiting factor for a lot of women, no matter how much he improves. he continues to work on himself, and invests even more time and energy. taking classes on picking up women, joining toastmasters in order to not just be a confident speaker, but be incredibly charismatic. He finally gets some decent success, but at the cost of immense investment of time, energy, and money.

-Dan is 5'11", overweight, decent job, and decently confident. he is your run of the mill guy. he is struggling with women and decides to improve. he gets better at banter, get more confident, improves his career, gets ripped. suddenly women seem to approach him. women seem to respond way more positively to him, even during normal conversation. this adds to his confidence. he begins to hear from people about certain girls having crushes on him, calling him "hot" saying "wow, dan, looks good now what happened". Dan looks at old versus new photos of himself and notices that he has rockin facial aesthetics underneath the fat in his face. Obviously, he can talk to women much better now and has more to offer, but he never had women approaching him unsolicited before without getting to know his personality. its almost like things "just happen for him"

Water is wet.

Guy withmore potential to be X is more likely to become X. Being average height > not being average height.

The point isn't so much that you do this for women.

It's that you do it because you should be focusing on how to make your life the most enjoyable place it can be for you. Imagine living a chit life, and just accepting that your life is chit?

Dan at 5'5'' improving his social skills, his physique, and his financial status will only benefit him in the long run. But it shouldn't be specifically to get laid, because that's a ton of investment forliterally the worst return in the world.Brahs out here acting like having sex is the be all end all, but it's not. With his newfound financial status, he can:
-Learn a new hobby with a higher cost-barrier-to-entry
-Take an additional vacation yearly (or actually get to take his FIRST yearly vacation)
-Learn a new language
-Plan to accelerate his retirement (which would free up A TON of time to enjoy life)
-Pay off his home sooner
-Find a local business to become a "regular" of and meet new people there.
-Afford better amenities, or a better residence


^I could spout on and on about this, but these are just some of the ways he could devote his finances... Not all of them at once, but these are all specific things he could do if he wanted to.He now has greater financial potential, and career potential with his new social skills too.

Genuinely tired of this "women are everything in life!!!" stance.It's OnlyFans culture at it's purest

They're not. Life is an exceedingly beautiful place, and if you're not doing everything you can to maximize the amount of life you get to experience (and maximize appreciation for life itself), you're missing the point. In fact, just focusing on getting laid or finding a woman is missing the forest for the trees.That's just one aspect of life.There are thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands, of other things that you can do and try.

It's small minded to do anything for the sole purpose of finding a woman.

Water is wet.

Guy withmore potential to be X is more likely to become X. Being average height > not being average height.

The point isn't so much that you do this for women.

It's that you do it because you should be focusing on how to make your life the most enjoyable place it can be for you. Imagine living a chit life, and just accepting that your life is chit?

Dan at 5'5'' improving his social skills, his physique, and his financial status will only benefit him in the long run. But it shouldn't be specifically to get laid, because that's a ton of investment forliterally the worst return in the world.Brahs out here acting like having sex is the be all end all, but it's not. With his newfound financial status, he can:
-Learn a new hobby with a higher cost-barrier-to-entry
-Take an additional vacation yearly (or actually get to take his FIRST yearly vacation)
-Learn a new language
-Plan to accelerate his retirement (which would free up A TON of time to enjoy life)
-Pay off his home sooner
-Find a local business to become a "regular" of and meet new people there.
-Afford better amenities, or a better residence


^I could spout on and on about this, but these are just some of the ways he could devote his finances... Not all of them at once, but these are all specific things he could do if he wanted to.He now has greater financial potential, and career potential with his new social skills too.

Genuinely tired of this "women are everything in life!!!" stance.It's OnlyFans culture at it's purest

They're not. Life is an exceedingly beautiful place, and if you're not doing everything you can to maximize the amount of life you get to experience (and maximize appreciation for life itself), you're missing the point. In fact, just focusing on getting laid or finding a woman is missing the forest for the trees.That's just one aspect of life.There are thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands, of other things that you can do and try.

It's small minded to do anything for the sole purpose of finding a woman.

The issue here is that men are being told that women like x, y, and z and they won't attract women until they get that chit together.

And agreed, pursuing your goals with the sole endpoint being to attract more women is deadly, its based on a validation of something you have pedestalized in your head as being far greater than reality. Busting a nut in attractive girl is more drug-like than than life-fulfilling. it does not make one actualized or content. You'll finally get there, and realize "what, all that effort for...this?".

however, the lack of women in your life is painful. I've been there. you can focus on yourself for yourself, but human companionship is a human need ingrained in us. you can say to yourself "it doesn't matter", but you'll be arguing against your natural instincts.

however, the lack of women in your life is painful. I've been there. you can focus on yourself for yourself, but human companionship is a human need ingrained in us. you can say to yourself "it doesn't matter", but you'll be arguing against your natural instincts.

You're assuming his life is s*it, but what if it isn't? What if he his life is generally good but he just can't get laid?

The issue here is that men are being told that women like x, y, and z and they won't attract women until they get that chit together.

And agreed, pursuing your goals with the sole endpoint being to attract more women is deadly, its based on a validation of something you have pedestalized in your head as being far greater than reality. Busting a nut in attractive girl is more drug-like than than life-fulfilling. it does not make one actualized or content. You'll finally get there, and realize "what, all that effort for...this?".

however, the lack of women in your life is painful. I've been there. you can focus on yourself for yourself, but human companionship is a human need ingrained in us. you can say to yourself "it doesn't matter", but you'll be arguing against your natural instincts.

The effort is supposed to pay off in high quality offspring. Now that western society is almost over, sex drive is kind of like a vestigial organ.

strong chadsplaining

Unless you've been on both sides of the fence your opinion doesn't apply.

literally the "just say hi bro Ryan Gosling" meme

lmao let me guess; you identify as a libtard too?

nah, phuck em

Can't have both man

To state chadsplaining exists is to also state that mansplaining does as well

I didn't make the assumption that his life was chit, you have again, read only the part of the post that you wanted to see.

Dan had an okay life, according to what was posted. But his life only benefited from the effort he put in. One could argue that his life was inherently less excellent prior to making his efforts to improve himself, and that his end result was a significantly higher quality of life.

There's a big net benefit that you completely ignore specifically because the sex aspect of it is so important to you.

And instead of reflecting what the reason for said "resistance" might have been, we are just going to blame women.

what I'm saying is you can't expect people to take your opinion seriously on this if you're a Chad

it's like a millionaire telling some homeless bum money isn't everything

things like this are everything when you don't have them at all

Found a picture of BBMG

How many fuсking pills are there now?

what I'm saying is you can't expect people to take your opinion seriously on this if you're a Chad

it's like a millionaire telling some homeless bum money isn't everything

things like this are everything when you don't have them at all

The point is, is Dan happy with his life or is he not? If he is, there is no reason for him to obsessed with self improvement OTHER THAN to get women. He doesnt need anything else to get better otherwise.

Thats how I feel. I'm fine with my life for the most part. The only real issue is being an incel. SO the only reason why I would bother busting my a$$ to improve anything is for women, because outside of women I'm almost entirely content.

Not nearly as many as western women are popping to cope with feminism

I don't understand where you came to that conclusion. I enjoy self-improvement. Zero of my self improvement has been for the purposes of getting women. I didn't fight amateur to get women, and I didn't start learning BJJ to get women. I did both of those things to challenge myself, and learn more about myself as a person. I'm not learning how to skateboard for women, I'm learning because I've always wanted to feel that sensation of being airborne with a kickflip over a four step ever since I first played THPS. I'm not advancing my career for women, I'm doing it because I want to accelerate my retirement. I'm not cutting to sub 8% for women, I'm doing it because I want to see if I have the discipline to make it happen. I'm not learning how to appreciate the world more, for women, I'm doing it because it increases the satisfaction I obtain from life.

Not everyone is like you. Some people dont have the desire or the need to be that way at all, like I dont give a single fuk about any of that. The only reason I would bother doing things like that is to get women. Other than that, I personally just want to work and do my hobbies. No need for any other nonsense OTHER THAN women

I don't know if you know this, but I didn't exactly wake up like this.

I don't know why you keep forgetting the fact that I struggled with suicidal idealization. It's annoying to keep reminding you of this.

I didnt say you woke up like this......I'm saying that not everyone is that way or wants to be that way. I do not want to be that way.

The only reason I would even think about being that way is to get puss*y. But other than that, I do not wish to be that way.

I'm bringing this up because people like you always say "dont do it for women bro do it for yourself", but other than for women I have no interest in these things because I'm otherwise fine with life as it is. So no I wont do it for myself, because I dont fuking care.

Sometimes women are the motive, and thats fine. Thats the reality of life.

Do you think you're going to get a woman, and all of the sudden you're going to behappy? Do you think that the moment you get into a relationship, your life is suddenly going to become exponentially better?

For a couple of moments, maybe. But you're going to chase that hedonic treadmill until you realize that it's not specifically a woman that will make you completely satisfied with life. It's you.

I already am fairly satisfied in life outside of women. If I was able to get women, there is literally nothing else that I would really need. I'd probably focus on trying to buy a house at that point, but thats not a big deal.

So yes, if you're main problem in life being an incel, obviously women are the solution for that

So then, let me ask you this:

Let's say you find a woman. Let's say you get contented in your relationship. Life is good, now you have nothing else to improve in your life. What do you think happens next? Do you think that "happily ever after" is where the story ends, and that's a wrap? Ya'll just ride off into the sunset and your life remains the same with the addition of a woman?

My life would be exactly as it is now, go to work, do my hobbies, see my friends AND additionally spend time with the girl.

nothing else would be different.

Let me be the first to let you know that's not how it works for 95% of the male population.

Let me be the first to let you know that you're probably the 95%, unfortunately. That's not a dig, it's just naive to think that's how it's gonna' go.

what would be different?