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post 1612887191 08-07-2020, 05:53 PM
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Software developers of the misc...

How do you decide on your program architecture when starting a new application? Been learning old OOP design patterns (strategy, factory method, abstract factory etc.) but not sure if this is how people still write software?
post 1612887541 08-07-2020, 05:57 PM
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Whatever the thing I’m copy pasting decided for me
watchout your comments boyo ↓
post 1612887851 08-07-2020, 06:01 PM
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You kinda feel it. SRS
This 6th sense comes with experience and at some point you see it in your mind.
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post 1612888041 08-07-2020, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted By iwant2beswole⏩
Whatever the thing I’m copy pasting decided for me
That's usually what I do, and then hope I never have to make any changes. Trying to learn to write something besides spaghetti
post 1612888371 08-07-2020, 06:08 PM
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As a brute force developer, I don’t.
Entire NYPD should go on strike. You'll see then how quickly the mayor changes his tone.

"Dig with your hands, not with your mouths"

Entire NYPD should go on strike. You'll see then how quickly the mayor changes his tone.
post 1612888461 08-07-2020, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted By brosapiens⏩
You kinda feel it. SRS
This 6th sense comes with experience and at some point you see it in your mind.
Problem is I work at a small company and don't have old dudes with this ability to learn from. Guess I can just keep watching youtube vids and learning from my own mistakes haha
post 1612888521 08-07-2020, 06:09 PM
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Interested to know the salary bands for Software Developers.

Inb4 tree fiddy
post 1612888681 08-07-2020, 06:11 PM
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agile development, waterfall development, test-driven development, etc, etc.

There are many ways to build an architecture. This question is too broad and needs context.
post 1612889301 08-07-2020, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted By epidox01⏩
agile development, waterfall development, test-driven development, etc, etc.

There are many ways to build an architecture. This question is too broad and needs context.
Ok, I've done test-driven development before, but writing test cases just kind of sets you up to write your program, right? I guess I am wondering if those old school design patterns are still used much, or what the general design guidelines or patterns are that you follow when determining how to build a program. For example, I've been told before that its important to the GUI and business logic to be separated, but there's a lot of ways you could do that. In flutter, it seems like BLoC is a preferred way to do it. My boss wants me to use Model-View-Controller in C#. I figure there are lots of other standard patterns that can be a good starting point for solving different problems, but I haven't found many books out there. Hoping you guys might be able to point me in the right direction?
post 1612889621 08-07-2020, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By DatBoyDrew⏩
Ok, I've done test-driven development before, but writing test cases just kind of sets you up to write your program, right? I guess I am wondering if those old school design patterns are still used much, or what the general design guidelines or patterns are that you follow when determining how to build a program. For example, I've been told before that its important to the GUI and business logic to be separated, but there's a lot of ways you could do that. In flutter, it seems like BLoC is a preferred way to do it. My boss wants me to use Model-View-Controller in C#. I figure there are lots of other standard patterns that can be a good starting point for solving different problems, but I haven't found many books out there. Hoping you guys might be able to point me in the right direction?
MVC is still pretty standard practice, and has withstood the test of time.

In CS, there is never only one way to do something. There are many many ways to solve a problem.

Thus, like I said, which architecture to use depends on your specific needs, your team size, your infrastructure, your budget, etc. There are just too many variables to say "this is the best way to build for every project".
post 1612889711 08-07-2020, 06:24 PM
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Lol at building applications from scratch and not implementing/extending available platforms. What is the use case?
Originally Posted By AestheticNoz⏩
Interested to know the salary bands for Software Developers.

Inb4 tree fiddy
Give me a locale, tech stack/specialization, and expertise level and I will give you a range.
post 1612889861 08-07-2020, 06:26 PM
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I fuking hate design patterns and Java's ****gy bureaucratic nature.
Originally Posted By AestheticNoz⏩
Interested to know the salary bands for Software Developers.

Inb4 tree fiddy
Behold: Distribution of software developers by salary

source = my brain



Most people are lazy and do the minimum. They end up working 50-60k. Those that work a little harder, get a boring comfy job for 70-90k. Those that work a bit harder, get promotions and earn more. Then there's those that pursue hardcore chit and earn big money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#By_absorption
post 1612889971 08-07-2020, 06:28 PM
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I started as a developer and have moved on to be a DBA now. In the large corporate world, many times it’s decided for you by what the existing platforms that are being used.

With that said, it’s easier than ever to use networking to send and retrieve data, but it’s fastest to just use the existing architecture and build off of it.
post 1612890021 08-07-2020, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted By epidox01⏩
agile development, waterfall development, test-driven development, etc, etc.

There are many ways to build an architecture. This question is too broad and needs context.
Those are SD processes/methodologies/approaches and not related to architecture design.
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post 1612890291 08-07-2020, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted By BothellBarbell⏩
Lol at building applications from scratch and not implementing/extending available platforms. What is the use case?



Give me a locale, tech stack/specialization, and expertise level and I will give you a range.
Agreed. Salary can vary widely depending on the area of the corporate office. In other words the cost of living in the area.
post 1612890761 08-07-2020, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted By brosapiens⏩
Those are SD processes/methodologies/approaches and not related to architecture design.
SW development processes and architecture design go hand in hand, and are definitely related.
post 1612890841 08-07-2020, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted By DatBoyDrew⏩
Ok, I've done test-driven development before, but writing test cases just kind of sets you up to write your program, right? I guess I am wondering if those old school design patterns are still used much, or what the general design guidelines or patterns are that you follow when determining how to build a program. For example, I've been told before that its important to the GUI and business logic to be separated, but there's a lot of ways you could do that. In flutter, it seems like BLoC is a preferred way to do it. My boss wants me to use Model-View-Controller in C#. I figure there are lots of other standard patterns that can be a good starting point for solving different problems, but I haven't found many books out there. Hoping you guys might be able to point me in the right direction?
You should not necessarily thin in the direction of Design Pattern -> Architecture but the other way around.
What pieces of functionality do you need and what's the best way to string them together.
Regarding Design Patterns which again are only useful for smaller decisions that regard organizing dataflow and handling of your components rather than architecture this is the book I read when I started:



If you actually want to learn about architecture this books will get you there:

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post 1612890921 08-07-2020, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted By epidox01⏩
SW development processes and architecture design go hand in hand, and are definitely related.
They might interact with each other but they are in no way related.
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post 1612891261 08-07-2020, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted By brosapiens⏩
They might interact with each other but they are in no way related.
Nope. Some methodologies are better suited for certain architectures, and thus they ARE related and better suited.

Saying that they "interact but not related at all" is pretty absurd.
post 1612891691 08-07-2020, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By epidox01⏩
MVC is still pretty standard practice, and has withstood the test of time.

In CS, there is never only one way to do something. There are many many ways to solve a problem.

Thus, like I said, which architecture to use depends on your specific needs, your team size, your infrastructure, your budget, etc. There are just too many variables to say "this is the best way to build for every project".
I'm not looking for one way to build every application, I want the knowledge of how to determine a solid way to build the application from those specifics you mentioned (team size, infrastructure etc). Ideally a book of design patterns or something on what the standard kind of solutions are to various problems. Just a starting point to be able to determine an architecture
post 1612891971 08-07-2020, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted By epidox01⏩
Nope. Some methodologies are better suited for certain architectures, and thus they ARE related and better suited.

Saying that they "interact but not related at all" is pretty absurd.
How are Waterfall or SCRUM related to a system that is built on top of a SOA based infrastructure consumed by two types of clients - Android and iOS devices - that are built on top of React Native, that use Yarn as a package manager, that uses Docker containers and Jenkins to run continuous integration, tests and deployment.

Whether you choose Waterfall or SCRUM will impact how your work gets done but in no way affects or is related to the architecture of your system.
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post 1612892371 08-07-2020, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted By brosapiens⏩
You should not necessarily thin in the direction of Design Pattern -> Architecture but the other way around.
What pieces of functionality do you need and what's the best way to string them together.
Regarding Design Patterns which again are only useful for smaller decisions that regard organizing dataflow and handling of your components rather than architecture this is the book I read when I started:

If you actually want to learn about architecture this books will get you there:
Thanks brah, repped. So you'd say these types of design patterns are still widely used?
post 1612892471 08-07-2020, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted By DatBoyDrew⏩
Thanks brah, repped. So you'd say these types of design patterns are still widely used?
They were created in the 60s/70s and will still be used in 50 years :P
I would recommend the first book first.
It looks a little silly but it's a pleasure to go through.
It gives you all kinds of examples and teaches you what to look for when organizing your code.
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post 1612893531 08-07-2020, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted By AestheticNoz⏩
Interested to know the salary bands for Software Developers.

Inb4 tree fiddy
On the east coast outside, in small cities, newbie developers start around 70k, mid-level is ~90k, senior is 100-120k depending on what tech you're using.

Basically increase it 30% for major cities outside of Silicon Valley.

Increase it 100% for Silicon Valley.

OP: Don't rely on software patterns. If they emerge naturally, then run with them, but don't force your design to fit patterns. I highly recommend Code Complete and Clean Code if you're looking for more of how you should architect your programs. Architecture itself is overblown. Just keep your code clean and follow something like the SOLID principles. The architecture will present itself eventually.

Most software today uses a microservices/api approach. Look into Node.js, Express, and React. This really is the way things are moving, and you'll get the feel for it after writing a few apps.
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post 1612893981 08-07-2020, 07:08 PM
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OP you won't learn anything practical in books, you might know about it but to truly learn something you will have to experience it, as a software developper, the more time you spend developping software the better you will become at this sort of things, don't waste too much time reading software books thinking you're gonna learn something, it's mostly a bull**** scam for selling overpriced paper to unaware college students.
Splitting wigs and busting cheeks™
post 1612894031 08-07-2020, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted By brosapiens⏩
How are Waterfall or SCRUM related to a system that is built on top of a SOA based infrastructure consumed by two types of clients - Android and iOS devices - that are built on top of React Native, that use Yarn as a package manager, that uses Docker containers and Jenkins to run continuous integration, tests and deployment.

Whether you choose Waterfall or SCRUM will impact how your work gets done but in no way affects or is related to the architecture of your system.
You really think all methodologies effective to the same degree for event-driven, pipe-line, microservices, service-oriented architectures? What's the point of having different methodologies in that case?

Architecture and methodologies are peas in a pod. You saying that they are mutually exclusive is simply wrong.
post 1612894431 08-07-2020, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted By epidox01⏩
You really think all methodologies effective to the same degree for event-driven, pipe-line, microservices, service-oriented architectures? What's the point of having different methodologies in that case?

Architecture and methodologies are peas in a pod. You saying that they are mutually exclusive is simply wrong.
Dude, you said that methodologies are architectural guidelines.
They are not and are not related in any way.

Do you believe that a wheel is an engine just because the engine makes the wheel go vroooom?
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post 1612895041 08-07-2020, 07:17 PM
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I'm very bad at planning so I just start working immediately but not directly on code

First you need to know what language you're using, is it a website or a desktop/mobile app etc

Then you need to know what data will be stored on frontend/backend and there are multiple frameworks that are good for different kinds of data

Then you structure your directories, usually if you've been working for a while you have your favorite/standard structure. Also heavily dependent on what languages, frameworks, dependency management systems you're using

After that I like to immediately setup environments

All of this can completely change from employer to employer and client to client.

I know I didn't give you a real answer but I don't think there is one. It all depends on the type of project, the customer demands etc.

If you're building an app for yourself you can do whatever the fokk you wanna do, but it's a good idea to pick one of the "standard" ways of organizing things and stick with it
post 1612895051 08-07-2020, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted By AdamSMW⏩
OP you won't learn anything practical in books.
I used to think this brah, but Code Complete and Clean Code literally changed the way I coded, and I had coded for 15 years before reading them.

Most books are bullchit.

Those two are definitely not.
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post 1612895281 08-07-2020, 07:18 PM
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#30
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Originally Posted By BulkingIsHard⏩
I fuking hate design patterns and Java's ****gy bureaucratic nature.



Behold: Distribution of software developers by salary

source = my brain



Most people are lazy and do the minimum. They end up working 50-60k. Those that work a little harder, get a boring comfy job for 70-90k. Those that work a bit harder, get promotions and earn more. Then there's those that pursue hardcore chit and earn big money.
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