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Should law enforcement officers have live support?
10-06-2020, 10:42 AM
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#31
Originally Posted By gbullock32⏩
I can believe that (low number of bad outcomes). But a lot of them don't seem to generate a lot of media coverage and many are just mind blown bad- like person shot and killed by PO that was just standing out in their own backyard in the dark, or PO shooting a person they were asked to do a well check on, or PO shooting a person who is complying with trying to show their ID.Keep in mind, the media only pushes when things do not go well.
Given just how many police interactions there are per year, the number of wrongful use of deadly force (and use of deadly force in general) is astronomically low.
Given just how many police interactions there are per year, the number of wrongful use of deadly force (and use of deadly force in general) is astronomically low.
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10-06-2020, 10:46 AM
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#32
- gbullock32
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
True, they try to weed out those who will not handle stressful situations well but some slip through the cracks. It's a combination of not enough training, stress, and often poor judgement; add in someone who just isn't cut out for the job and things just go bad sometimes.I can believe that (low number of bad outcomes). But a lot of them don't seem to generate a lot of media coverage and many are just mind blown bad- like person shot and killed by PO that was just standing out in their own backyard in the dark, or PO shooting a person they were asked to do a well check on, or PO shooting a person who is complying with trying to show their ID.
Seen it at work, luckily not any shooting, but more than a few times pulling someone off an inmate when they go 'code black'; pretty much just lose it and panic, all reason gone and only reacting.
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10-06-2020, 10:50 AM
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#33
- elterrible987
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
I watch a guy who streams from NYC riding his bike around and its still laggy and pixelated chit. There is no way someone could use video like that to be able to help someone in real timePossibly. As a mere end user I know that there seems to be people streaming video on their cell phones all over all the time. At least in big metro areas. I know that some places in BFE there is no service.
IDK about slashing budgets.
Re: liability are your referring to this thread?
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=179040881
Where miscers assumed that by questioning the status quo I somehow was coming out in support of officers losing their house, or something?
Not that it is material, but I have a cousin who is former law enforcement and a nephew who is on the PD in San Antonio....young guy in his mid 20s that I still remember as a bratty 8 year old.
IDK about slashing budgets.
Re: liability are your referring to this thread?
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=179040881
Where miscers assumed that by questioning the status quo I somehow was coming out in support of officers losing their house, or something?
Not that it is material, but I have a cousin who is former law enforcement and a nephew who is on the PD in San Antonio....young guy in his mid 20s that I still remember as a bratty 8 year old.
but what you are talking about is pretty close to what they do in some UK towns that have tons of cameras down town, they have dispatchers watching all the cameras and alerting police to what is going on and the police even make arrests based on what the people say - ie if they say the saw them instigating a fight, the police arrest that person. It is kind of creepy to be honest. But the point is the cameras are hard wired.
10-06-2020, 10:59 AM
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#34
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Ever think of the data banks this would require, even if they can opt to erase after a shift if nothing happens etc, required IT and supporting groups? Are you ready to fork over more money for this, because im fine with it as is.
Just because tech is available doesn't mean it's feasible, for example OLED displays were available 7 plus years ago in the form of roll out screens, embedded in mirrors, folding displays etc. Yet we only see a few and not the top of the line abilities, because of cost or feasibility.
We could keep tabs on every square inch of every city, but we don't because of the support and tech costs that it would require.
Just because tech is available doesn't mean it's feasible, for example OLED displays were available 7 plus years ago in the form of roll out screens, embedded in mirrors, folding displays etc. Yet we only see a few and not the top of the line abilities, because of cost or feasibility.
We could keep tabs on every square inch of every city, but we don't because of the support and tech costs that it would require.
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10-06-2020, 11:09 AM
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#35
- guest89
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Most law enforcement agencies are under manned and under-funded already. Its not feasible for many reasons. The whole law enforcement 'issue' can be solved by raising the standards to become a police officer. Require military and/or college. A stricter vetting process. A longer training academy. More frequent training during the work week. Etc. The problem is still manpower. Barely have enough qualified candidates as it is. How high are you going to raise the salary to get 'good' and qualified people?
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
10-06-2020, 11:22 AM
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#36
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I support cops. Most of them are good people who have a tough job and genuinely want to help people.
That said, I think body cams should be mandatory. Now, they don't need to be on 24/7. If the cop is sitting his car farting and eating his lunch, that doesn't need to be recorded. The cam should have to go on once the cop is interacting with the public. If the cop performs any official actions with the cam turned off, then the cop's actions should be considered with immediate suspicion.
That said, I think body cams should be mandatory. Now, they don't need to be on 24/7. If the cop is sitting his car farting and eating his lunch, that doesn't need to be recorded. The cam should have to go on once the cop is interacting with the public. If the cop performs any official actions with the cam turned off, then the cop's actions should be considered with immediate suspicion.
10-06-2020, 11:34 AM
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#37
10-06-2020, 11:38 AM
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#38
- memcop
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Originally Posted By guest89⏩
Sounds like a suicide factory.Most law enforcement agencies are under manned and under-funded already. Its not feasible for many reasons. The whole law enforcement 'issue' can be solved by raising the standards to become a police officer. Require military and/or college. A stricter vetting process. A longer training academy. More frequent training during the work week. Etc. The problem is still manpower. Barely have enough qualified candidates as it is. How high are you going to raise the salary to get 'good' and qualified people?
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
Here we have to have a B.S/A or 3 years of consecutive military experience. The academy is 6 months. You receive another 2,000 hours of training through FTO (80 days training under guidance followed by a two-man phase lasting another 3 months) and on the job training your first year out of the academy.
We only work 40 hours through a 5 day set shift. We can be held over as a shift but it is rare and if it does happen there is a riot or some disaster. Only overtime whores work OT and some make more than 150k a year.
Me? I'm lucky to break even on salary depending on if I get suspended that year or not. I hate overtime. I'd quit if I were made to work it.
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10-06-2020, 12:44 PM
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#39
- PisseninMisc
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At the moment, it may be the only short term viable solution to add some accountability to the mix.
Long term the real answer is shifting funding or enhancing funding for other types of responders focused on substance abuse, mental healthcare, family/civil disputes, adult and minor welfare, etc. I hear this time and time again from both law enforcement and correctional people (our friend from Coalinga can better comment regarding the latter). Most cops and correctional people don't want to deal with responding to people on meth, bipolar people, drunk people having fights, etc... they just don't have a choice.
Not making excuses for bad actors, but a lot of them just don't have the training and natural capability to deal with that kind of chit. When take people who didn't sign up to do a certain task, don't train them right, and then force them to perform the tasks they did not sign up for or want to perform, an undesirable outcome is all but guaranteed.
Long term the real answer is shifting funding or enhancing funding for other types of responders focused on substance abuse, mental healthcare, family/civil disputes, adult and minor welfare, etc. I hear this time and time again from both law enforcement and correctional people (our friend from Coalinga can better comment regarding the latter). Most cops and correctional people don't want to deal with responding to people on meth, bipolar people, drunk people having fights, etc... they just don't have a choice.
Not making excuses for bad actors, but a lot of them just don't have the training and natural capability to deal with that kind of chit. When take people who didn't sign up to do a certain task, don't train them right, and then force them to perform the tasks they did not sign up for or want to perform, an undesirable outcome is all but guaranteed.
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10-06-2020, 12:57 PM
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#40
- memcop
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
There will never be another viable alternative to "responding to people on meth, bipolar people, drunk people having fights, etc.."At the moment, it may be the only short term viable solution to add some accountability to the mix.
Long term the real answer is shifting funding or enhancing funding for other types of responders focused on substance abuse, mental healthcare, family/civil disputes, adult and minor welfare, etc. I hear this time and time again from both law enforcement and correctional people (our friend from Coalinga can better comment regarding the latter). Most cops and correctional people don't want to deal with responding to people on meth, bipolar people, drunk people having fights, etc... they just don't have a choice.
Not making excuses for bad actors, but a lot of them just don't have the training and natural capability to deal with that kind of chit. When take people who didn't sign up to do a certain task, don't train them right, and then force them to perform the tasks they did not sign up for or want to perform, an undesirable outcome is all but guaranteed.
Long term the real answer is shifting funding or enhancing funding for other types of responders focused on substance abuse, mental healthcare, family/civil disputes, adult and minor welfare, etc. I hear this time and time again from both law enforcement and correctional people (our friend from Coalinga can better comment regarding the latter). Most cops and correctional people don't want to deal with responding to people on meth, bipolar people, drunk people having fights, etc... they just don't have a choice.
Not making excuses for bad actors, but a lot of them just don't have the training and natural capability to deal with that kind of chit. When take people who didn't sign up to do a certain task, don't train them right, and then force them to perform the tasks they did not sign up for or want to perform, an undesirable outcome is all but guaranteed.
Any application to the contrary is foolish and dangerous and has already been tried. I dont understand why people do not understand stasis. Things are the way they are for a reason. Everyone has a bright idea about things and have no clue what it takes to solve them.
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10-06-2020, 02:42 PM
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#41
- CherryPopinski
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Originally Posted By guest89⏩
Not sure why people have this misguided notion that a college education will translate to being a better police officer. I know plenty of people who are college graduates that are quite literally denser than a sack of hammers.Most law enforcement agencies are under manned and under-funded already. Its not feasible for many reasons. The whole law enforcement 'issue' can be solved by raising the standards to become a police officer. Require military and/or college. A stricter vetting process. A longer training academy. More frequent training during the work week. Etc. The problem is still manpower. Barely have enough qualified candidates as it is. How high are you going to raise the salary to get 'good' and qualified people?
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
Policing isn’t a hard job. Complicated and stressful at times, but the work itself is pretty straightforward.
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10-06-2020, 02:47 PM
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#42
- memcop
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Originally Posted By CherryPopinski⏩
Sure if you are giving minimum participation. ;p Wait until you level up rookie then you don't get another break until your the field supervisor's supervisor.Not sure why people have this misguided notion that a college education will translate to being a better police officer. I know plenty of people who are college graduates that are quite literally denser then a sack of hammers.
Policing isn’t a hard job. Complicated and stressful at times, but the work itself is pretty straightforward.
Policing isn’t a hard job. Complicated and stressful at times, but the work itself is pretty straightforward.
Some of the best investigators I know do not have a degree. However there needs to e some standards. We hired for maybe a year without degrees. Hard times and most washed out or got locked or fired up later. Complete disaster.
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10-06-2020, 02:51 PM
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#43
- CherryPopinski
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
Our union was successful in advocating against employees being mandated to work overtime. I had to do it a handful of times in field training before the new policy went into effect. Would def suck.Sounds like a suicide factory.
Here we have to have a B.S/A or 3 years of consecutive military experience. The academy is 6 months. You receive another 2,000 hours of training through FTO (80 days training under guidance followed by a two-man phase lasting another 3 months) and on the job training your first year out of the academy.
We only work 40 hours through a 5 day set shift. We can be held over as a shift but it is rare and if it does happen there is a riot or some disaster. Only overtime whores work OT and some make more than 150k a year.
Me? I'm lucky to break even on salary depending on if I get suspended that year or not. I hate overtime. I'd quit if I were made to work it.
Here we have to have a B.S/A or 3 years of consecutive military experience. The academy is 6 months. You receive another 2,000 hours of training through FTO (80 days training under guidance followed by a two-man phase lasting another 3 months) and on the job training your first year out of the academy.
We only work 40 hours through a 5 day set shift. We can be held over as a shift but it is rare and if it does happen there is a riot or some disaster. Only overtime whores work OT and some make more than 150k a year.
Me? I'm lucky to break even on salary depending on if I get suspended that year or not. I hate overtime. I'd quit if I were made to work it.
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
-Socrates
10-06-2020, 03:11 PM
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#44
- Variable82
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- Variable82
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OP, are you an officer?
If you are, you should know better.
If you are not, then shut up. There's nothing worse than the should have, would have, could have crew bringing up daft ideas. It's one of those jobs that require experience of actually doing it, rather than whats seen on the TV, in the news or what your mate told you.
If you are, you should know better.
If you are not, then shut up. There's nothing worse than the should have, would have, could have crew bringing up daft ideas. It's one of those jobs that require experience of actually doing it, rather than whats seen on the TV, in the news or what your mate told you.
10-06-2020, 03:20 PM
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#45
- BeginnerGainz
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IMO we could dump the war on drugs. Prohibition didn't work. How many less police calls would there be if drugs ceased to be a profitable illegal business and was instead just a public health issue?
Wishful thinking at its finest. Just because you make something “legal” doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue. I doubt there would be any legal meth manufacturers out there so people would still get them illegally. Chit Marijuana is legal in a lot of places (not just medical Marijuana) and people still resort to buying it on the street because it’s cheaper.Age: 30
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants"
-Sir Isaac Newton
10-06-2020, 03:35 PM
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#46
- bigcat3655
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- bigcat3655
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Wolfe city is a tiny town in texas. The officer that shot the guy was most likely the only cop on duty there, working at a much smaller salary than at bigger departments. They probably could barely afford him let alone pay for a second officer who doesn't work the street, and all the tech for him to act as a mentor.I was chatting with my brother about this recent shooting and how odd it is to me that in this era officer don't have body cams that are on all the time when they are on the clock.
I understand not wanting to be "micro managed" and the desire for some privacy, so I can see officers going "offline" for meals and breaks.
But if we can control drones in another country from a command center here, how can we not do a better job of policing?
Policing is a big job. Ideally our officers would be fit for duty, have some solid hand to hand abilities to physically manage suspects (how to control with no/minimal damage), and good interpersonal/communication skills.
Beyond that there is a learning curve and some people are just better and more experienced.
His idea was to have an older experienced officer who maybe couldn't hang with the physical aspects of the job, but is still mentally sharp, to serve as support for less experienced officers or as an adviser generally. As in the officer in the field would have a headset/camera and the officer in the support center would have multiple monitors with feeds. The officer in the support center would engage when requested, or engage where he/she saw the greatest need for engagement via mic.
IMO just having someone to bounce something off of, or knowing that there is a witness to any engagement could give the field officer a little more confidence and security (someone is watching if it goes bad), while also decreasing some needless tragedy.
Maybe if this Wolfe City officer had a more experienced cooler headed officer in his ear saying "let him go, we have him on video and we can identify him and contact him later" then Jonathan Price would still be breathing.
I understand not wanting to be "micro managed" and the desire for some privacy, so I can see officers going "offline" for meals and breaks.
But if we can control drones in another country from a command center here, how can we not do a better job of policing?
Policing is a big job. Ideally our officers would be fit for duty, have some solid hand to hand abilities to physically manage suspects (how to control with no/minimal damage), and good interpersonal/communication skills.
Beyond that there is a learning curve and some people are just better and more experienced.
His idea was to have an older experienced officer who maybe couldn't hang with the physical aspects of the job, but is still mentally sharp, to serve as support for less experienced officers or as an adviser generally. As in the officer in the field would have a headset/camera and the officer in the support center would have multiple monitors with feeds. The officer in the support center would engage when requested, or engage where he/she saw the greatest need for engagement via mic.
IMO just having someone to bounce something off of, or knowing that there is a witness to any engagement could give the field officer a little more confidence and security (someone is watching if it goes bad), while also decreasing some needless tragedy.
Maybe if this Wolfe City officer had a more experienced cooler headed officer in his ear saying "let him go, we have him on video and we can identify him and contact him later" then Jonathan Price would still be breathing.
10-06-2020, 03:37 PM
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#47
- PepperedAngus
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This is the kind of liberal thinking that makes sane people think liberal thinking is mental illness.
For every man, there is a sentence, a string of words, that has the power to destroy him
"The strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must" -Thucydides
Shall not be Infringed. FUK CHINA.
10-06-2020, 03:38 PM
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#48
- Aristotelian
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Originally Posted By CherryPopinski⏩
In Germany, police officers have 3 years of training before they are sent out. It isn't "college" - it's a special police academy they all have to go through. There are lots of psychological tests on people who apply; the conditions are good; the position commands respect, and at the end of the day plenty of people don't like cops there anyway. Even if you walk through Berlin and see people doing things youcouldbe arrested for - people aren't. Unless it gets in someone's way.Not sure why people have this misguided notion that a college education will translate to being a better police officer. I know plenty of people who are college graduates that are quite literally denser than a sack of hammers.
Policing isn’t a hard job. Complicated and stressful at times, but the work itself is pretty straightforward.
Policing isn’t a hard job. Complicated and stressful at times, but the work itself is pretty straightforward.
The problem in the U.S is often portrayed as a "police" issue - but it is also a "public savagery issue".
10,000,000 arrests per year. Only a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall amount of police interaction goes awry. And yet agendas in the U.S push (from different sectors - don't get me wrong - including the groups who love to "deny authority of the State" - simpliciter) against police and have for a long time.
People push against police in this country - and look at Flint, Michigan. The average citizen then starts buying guns, and becomes a "citizen protector" - so 18 year olds trying to rob a corner store get shot to death and people applaud it - across the board (race wise). Because eventually communities like that where Police are so undermined/underfunded, end up having to police themselves.
10-06-2020, 04:01 PM
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#49
Originally Posted By Variable82⏩
I admitted that I'm not any kind of expert. It's just an idea, not a mandate or some such.OP, are you an officer?
If you are, you should know better.
If you are not, then shut up. There's nothing worse than the should have, would have, could have crew bringing up daft ideas. It's one of those jobs that require experience of actually doing it, rather than whats seen on the TV, in the news or what your mate told you.
If you are, you should know better.
If you are not, then shut up. There's nothing worse than the should have, would have, could have crew bringing up daft ideas. It's one of those jobs that require experience of actually doing it, rather than whats seen on the TV, in the news or what your mate told you.
Originally Posted By BeginnerGainz⏩
That doesn't answer the question regarding if policing of drug sales is a worthwhile activity for communities to invest in. And I'm not coming at this as someone who has ever been a regular user, seller, or is "pro substance abuse" in any way. I recognize the damage that substance abuse and addiction can do.Wishful thinking at its finest. Just because you make something “legal” doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue. I doubt there would be any legal meth manufacturers out there so people would still get them illegally. Chit Marijuana is legal in a lot of places (not just medical Marijuana) and people still resort to buying it on the street because it’s cheaper.
I just don't believe that prohibition is effective. How much money are we spending for policing specifically of drug sales/purchases, violence that occurs in relation to the drug trade (gangs mostly), prosecution and incarceration of those convicted? Then we spend relatively little on publicly funded readily available treatment. So we spend all this money, and all of these man hours, but we still have users and addicts and as long as that is so we continue to have a market for the product and continue to have criminals seeking to supply that market.
I'm fine with making pot legal w/age restrictions and safety regulations. Generally feel the same about most psychedelics- perhaps restrict it to some type of professional administration.
The rest? Maybe we just have dispensaries where users can go to get their fix and come back down before they are able to leave? Every time they visit offer them the option to enter treatment instead. New users are many times recruited by current users. A dispensary could reduce that.
We would probably spend less money, reduce crime in areas rife with the sale of illegal drugs, and (hopefully) over time reduce the number of users.
INTP Crew
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10-06-2020, 04:05 PM
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#50
Maybe besides deciding what PD priorities should be we also go to having different levels of assistance?
Saw this browsing job listings over the weekend. From the title I was thinking it was a phone position answering non-emergency calls, but the job description sounds more like field work:
Civilian Response Specialist
https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=59...rom=serp&vjs=3
Saw this browsing job listings over the weekend. From the title I was thinking it was a phone position answering non-emergency calls, but the job description sounds more like field work:
Civilian Response Specialist
https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=59...rom=serp&vjs=3
INTP Crew
Inattentive ADD Crew
Mom That Miscs Crew
10-06-2020, 04:11 PM
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#51
- memcop
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Lol weve had these for decades. They ended up taking crash reports full time. The hot or connected ones end up in cushy spots but are the joke of the departmentMaybe besides deciding what PD priorities should be we also go to having different levels of assistance?
Saw this browsing job listings over the weekend. From the title I was thinking it was a phone position answering non-emergency calls, but the job description sounds more like field work:
Civilian Response Specialist
https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=59...rom=serp&vjs=3
Saw this browsing job listings over the weekend. From the title I was thinking it was a phone position answering non-emergency calls, but the job description sounds more like field work:
Civilian Response Specialist
https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=59...rom=serp&vjs=3
Homerotic Modulator, Envious of Idiocy
10-06-2020, 04:43 PM
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#52
- bigben2121
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- bigben2121
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
If people would shift some of this focus to individuals taking responsibility for not complying with commands from officers and thinking it’s okay to resist arrest. You would eliminate 95 percent of officer involved shootings.Reasonable.
I can accept that it isn't a workable solution. I recognize that I'm not any kind of expert on policing; just a member of the public wondering WTH at multiple incidents that I have read about or seen video of. I don't hate law enforcement or expect them to be infallible.
So what would help if anything? Really.
I can accept that it isn't a workable solution. I recognize that I'm not any kind of expert on policing; just a member of the public wondering WTH at multiple incidents that I have read about or seen video of. I don't hate law enforcement or expect them to be infallible.
So what would help if anything? Really.
10-06-2020, 04:51 PM
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#53
- jackamo2887
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Originally Posted By guest89⏩
A lot of this is true. Some of it depends on the supervisor.Most law enforcement agencies are under manned and under-funded already. Its not feasible for many reasons. The whole law enforcement 'issue' can be solved by raising the standards to become a police officer. Require military and/or college. A stricter vetting process. A longer training academy. More frequent training during the work week. Etc. The problem is still manpower. Barely have enough qualified candidates as it is. How high are you going to raise the salary to get 'good' and qualified people?
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
Where I work if you get shot at, or if your side partner you're close with is killed DURING the shift, certain supervisors will send you home.
Survival. When the jungle tears itself down and builds itself into something new. Guys like you and me, we end up dead. Doesn’t really mean anything. Or, if we happen to live through it, well that doesn’t mean anything either.
10-06-2020, 04:55 PM
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#54
- veggie530
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- veggie530
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
this.I can tell you for a fact that there are no batteries that can support it.
The best on the market can record for three hours when they are new.
Also, the data has to be stored. There are no reasonable methods to store that data. I can tell you for a certainty the cost would be tens of millions of dollars in data a year on any medium-sized department.
Currently, in busy departments, officers clock 3-4 gigs daily.
As far as the rest, it doesnt even deserve a comment.
The best on the market can record for three hours when they are new.
Also, the data has to be stored. There are no reasonable methods to store that data. I can tell you for a certainty the cost would be tens of millions of dollars in data a year on any medium-sized department.
Currently, in busy departments, officers clock 3-4 gigs daily.
As far as the rest, it doesnt even deserve a comment.
get elon musk on it and maybe he can venture capital 8 or 9 figures into providing something like this
body cams don't even matter, tbh. you have clear video of someone resisting arrest, fighting police, holding a knife, trying to kidnap 3 kids and they burn down 30 cities because "racism" and "shoot him in the foot"
Originally Posted By guest89⏩
THE best post I've ever seen about policing.Most law enforcement agencies are under manned and under-funded already. Its not feasible for many reasons. The whole law enforcement 'issue' can be solved by raising the standards to become a police officer. Require military and/or college. A stricter vetting process. A longer training academy. More frequent training during the work week. Etc. The problem is still manpower. Barely have enough qualified candidates as it is. How high are you going to raise the salary to get 'good' and qualified people?
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
If you want to know what Law Enforcement standards are in my state:
3 month state academy. If your lucky 2 weeks to 3 months of riding with a field training officer. Yearly 'training' is typically 3-4 days of re-certifications and maybe a little training power-points. They just don't have the manpower or funding to do better then that in 95% of agencies.
You typically work 6 to 6 either night shift or morning shift (15 days per month). During that 12h shift if its a busy place you might get 30 minutes to eat. Some days you wont. At least 90% of the people you come in contact with are on drugs, alcohol, mentally ill, are a violent criminal or are a regular person that's just having the ****tiest day ever and are in a bad mood.
On top of working 12h shifts you also typically are held over, sometimes 14-16 hours. You often get drafted for 'off duty' assignments on your days off. You're also expected to stay physically fit, eat healthy, be proficient at hand to hand combative and firearms. Etc. Keeping uniforms clean and pressed. Boots shined. All things you have to do in your off time and in the odd 8 to 10 hours you get 'off' on your working days.
-If you get in a physical fight that doesn't require you receive medical treatment, you've got about 30 minutes to compose yourself and get back to work.
-If someone shoots at you, if they miss, you don't go home or sit in the station. You get back to work.
-Respond to a crash where a body is so mangled you literally need a shovel to get it in a body bag. When its bagged and report is done. You get back to work.
-Respond to a home where a family lost an infant or child in their sleep. After you console the hysterical family and bodybag the baby. You get back to work.
-Your long time friend gets killed in the line of duty. Guess what, you get back to work. Probably before they even pick up his body. Nobody gives a fukk if your sad. Go answer calls for service and be a professional.
-Put everything you have on the line to do your job and be subject to lawsuits and criminal prosecution. Then ever single thing you do is judged after the fact. By people that have no training/experience/first hand knowledge.
I could go on. It really just gets tiring hearing people whine about police professionalism when they do not understand the job at all. Imagine working 50-60 hours per week for pay. Then donating another 10-15 hours per week of your free time to further prepare for while your at work. For 20+ years. Its easy to see why so many officers get fat, out of shape, let training/practice slack, make bad judgement calls, etc.
In nursing, I do CPR on a dead infant for 30 minutes, break the news to parents, deal with the aftermath, console my team members afterward, and still got 10 hours left in the shift to deal with the same crack heads and POS's that present to the ER to be societal hyenas. This kind of work ruins your soul.
August 2023:
BW: 194
B: 315 x 3, 225 x 14 (PR: 335)
S: 315 x 2, 225 x 18 (PR's)
DL: 405 x 1 (PR); Trap Bar DL: 405 x 1
OHP: 185 x 3 (PR), 135 x 16
Chins: 22(PR) Pushups: 83 (PR: 101)
1 Mile: 6:45 (PR: 5:52)
10-06-2020, 04:57 PM
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#55
- memcop
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Originally Posted By jackamo2887⏩
Nothing to do with a supervisor. Garbage departments have garbage policy.A lot of this is true. Some of it depends on the supervisor.
Where I work if you get shot at, or if your side partner you're close with is killed DURING the shift, certain supervisors will send you home.
Where I work if you get shot at, or if your side partner you're close with is killed DURING the shift, certain supervisors will send you home.
Debriefing, peer support network, employee contracted counseling, mandatory cooling off period and management referrals are critical to a professional department.
Homerotic Modulator, Envious of Idiocy
10-06-2020, 05:06 PM
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#56
- jackamo2887
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
Ill write a letter to my former employer, the Baltimore Police Department, demanding those retroactively.Nothing to do with a supervisor. Garbage departments have garbage policy.
Debriefing, peer support network, employee contracted counseling, mandatory cooling off period and management referrals are critical to a professional department.
Debriefing, peer support network, employee contracted counseling, mandatory cooling off period and management referrals are critical to a professional department.
Survival. When the jungle tears itself down and builds itself into something new. Guys like you and me, we end up dead. Doesn’t really mean anything. Or, if we happen to live through it, well that doesn’t mean anything either.
10-06-2020, 05:12 PM
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#57
- memcop
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Originally Posted By jackamo2887⏩
I know a crazy chick from BPD. Probably can use it now if she hasn't lost her job yet.Ill write a letter to my former employer, the Baltimore Police Department, demanding those retroactively.
Def a garbage department
Homerotic Modulator, Envious of Idiocy
10-06-2020, 05:27 PM
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#58
- CherryPopinski
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- CherryPopinski
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
My department has all those thingsNothing to do with a supervisor. Garbage departments have garbage policy.
Debriefing, peer support network, employee contracted counseling, mandatory cooling off period and management referrals are critical to a professional department.
Debriefing, peer support network, employee contracted counseling, mandatory cooling off period and management referrals are critical to a professional department.
hope I'll never need them.No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
-Socrates
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