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» Guitar Megathread II: Unleash the picking fury!!!
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post 1621679901 11-06-2020, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted By rollerball
The best way to get better is to learn other people's solos.
Transcribing solos of players who sound good to you will develop your lines. The reason why all my lines sound like tired, rehashed, mundane shredder chit is because I'm so lazy with transcribing solos and have been almost my entire time of playing.
I need to start learning some Charlie Christian solos. Not sure where else to start to try to learn jazz/fusion. Anyone got any ideas for a total beginner when it comes to those styles?
I'm guessing you're more into fusion than straight-ahead jazz. For fusion, here are some concepts you can employ to get color into your playing. This is not what I recommend to a straight-ahead enthusiast to do first when trying to learn how to solo on Stella, for example, but for jazz rock, absolutely.


Start on a static Dominant 7th chord. Best at first to have a chord voiced with only the R 3 b7 in the chord (i.e., don't put the 5th in the chord and don't put extensions on it).


Inside sounds for Dom7:

Using scales:

- Major from the4thof the chord (Mixolydian)*
- Minor Pentatonic from therootof the chord
- Minor Pentatonic from the6thof the chord
- Melodic Minor from the5thof the chord (Lydian Dominant)*

Using arpeggios:

- Minor 7b5 arpeggio from the3rdof the chord
- Minor 7b5 arpeggio from theb5thof the chord (Lydian Dominant sound)
- Minor (Major 7th) arpeggio from the5thof the chord (Lydian Dominant sound)

- Augmented triad from theb5thof the chord (Lydian Dominant sound)*
- Augmented triad from theb7thof the chord (Lydian Dominant sound)
- Augmented triad from the9thof the chord (Lydian Dominant sound)
(these 3 are all the same triad due to the symmetrical nature of augmented triads; that is, it breaks the octave into 3 equal parts so it repeats)


Outside sounds for Dom7:

Using scales:

- Melodic Minor from theb7thof the chord (Dorian b2)
- Melodic Minor from theb9thof the chord (Super Locrian)*
- Whole Tone from therootof the chord*
- Diminished (Whole/Half) from theb9thof the chord*

- Minor Pentatonic from theb7thof the chord
- Minor Pentatonic from the#9thof the chord*

Using arpeggios:

- Major triad from theb5thof the chord*
- Major triad from the6thof the chord*
- Major triad from the#9thof the chord*

- Augmented triad from therootof the chord*
- Augmented triad from the3rdof the chord
- Augmented triad from the#5thof the chord
(same 3 triads)

- Minor 7b5 arpeggio from theb7thof the chord
- Minor (Major 7th) arpeggio from theb7thof the chord
- Minor (Major 7th) arpeggio from theb9thof the chord*


Few things:

*indicates must know stuff or a good place to start (I didn't star all the pentatonics because they're pentatonics and for guitar players they're the easiest to incorporate).

b7 of chord means b7 from the root of the chord. Since a dom7 has a b7 in the chord, it's the 7th of the chord (e.g., C7 = C E G Bb and the Bb is a b7).

Minor (Major 7th) is a minor triad with a major 7th interval on top (e.g., C Eb G with B added instead of Bb)

#11, Lydian Dominant type sounds isn't really outside, but many find it to be when working on it, so I specified in parenthesis.
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post 1621680491 11-06-2020, 03:26 AM
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^ Perfect intonation and vibrato at extreme speeds.

Also an interesting rhythmical section which doesn't sound like a youtube backing track.
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post 1621682941 11-06-2020, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted By SwimToTheMoon
I'd rather be stuck listening to Kirk Hammett for a day that Satriani
Originally Posted By brosapiens
^ Perfect intonation and vibrato at extreme speeds.

Also an interesting rhythmical section which doesn't sound like a youtube backing track.
Those Shrapnel boyos could do it all.
Originally Posted By z4v4
Outside sounds for Dom
Repped.
post 1621730001 11-06-2020, 12:05 PM
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post 1621730071 11-06-2020, 12:06 PM
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post 1621737111 11-06-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball
Repped mang. Awesome stuff.
And true I'm more interested in fusion than jazz but I had been under the pretense that one had to learn jazz first before trying to do fusion.
There's a lot of info in there to unpack.
Just my 2 cents — I wouldn't try to play "outside" until you're comfortable with the diatonic modes and the melodic minor and its modes. Getting the sound of those into your head first. I think it's really important to sing the notes before you play them and you'll eventually reach a point like with reading where you can do it silently.

I would start with the diatonic modes since there is so much you can explore right there adding a little color with chromatic passing tones. From a fusion standpoint I'd pay special attention to Dorian. Nobody is writing music in Locrian so you can reduce that to a m7b5 arpeggio with its upper extensions (b9-11-b13) being a major triad a half step above root. Lydian is the center of the universe for me, not major (outside of being the basis for scale and chord formulae but then everything could easily be transposed to F Lydian instead of C major), but I don't want to confuse you so major/Ionian should be your starting point.

You can train your ear sitting at a piano and hearing how notes from a scale sound against popular progressions because let's face it most people are going to like subtle variations on what they've already heard before. When you hear someone improvising and they're not hitting those chord tones and resolving a line the way you'd expect then it can sound quite aimless. Of course if you only played chord tones then it's going to be boring so the art is in connecting the dots.

Then move on to the melodic minor and explore its modes. This is where you really have to take the ear training up a notch because for a lot of people those 4 consecutive whole steps (Lydian #5) hiding in there which are the first 5 notes of a whole tone scale can be difficult to hear. Believe it or not it's out there in popular music. Listen to Yesterday by The Beatles. "All my troubles seemed so far away." He switches to melodic minor instead of minor playing over a dominant chord just for that line before returning to natural minor (Aeolian) and its relative major where it began. It's pure genius but it teaches you that music is all about color. You don't need to be in scale X or key Y for the entirety of a line or melody.There are no rules.

Outside playing is probably best left for a later date. Listen to masters at it like the late Michael Brecker and Herbie Hancock and you'll start to identify symmetry in those lines where they're going up or down a half step, shifting everything a tritone, using symmetrical scales, diminished/augmented arpeggios, weaving in and out of the key effortlessly. But you can only do that convincingly when you always know where "inside" is otherwise it's just going to sound like sh|t.
post 1621753381 11-06-2020, 03:14 PM
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post 1621795401 11-06-2020, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted By rollerball
Okay so start with modes focusing on Dorian and Lydian and then move onto the more challenging melodic minor modes. Lotta stuff.
In terms of outside playing yeah I have no intention of trying that since I don't have even have the rules internalized so I know what I'm breaking. My goal is to one day be able to play with chromatics and outside playing that still sounds good and not random or tasteless.
Definitely. I planned to write a paragraph but it kept flowing. Some more thoughts...

Spoiler!
The dilemma these days is there's so much information you've got to figure out whether you should listen to Youtubers with online courses, videos, books, people on forums... the list goes on.

I learned the modes from Frank Gambale in a magazine which came with audio examples. Even though I had a book with all the theory in it I couldn't understand why C major starting on D (Dorian) or any mode starting from another note would sound different to the major scale. Hearing those examples was huge. All Frank did was kept the IV and V chords static while changing the root chord and then it all made sense. I could hear the Dorian sound. Phrygian. Lydian. Mixolydian. I could already hear minor (Aeolian). It was important to learn the modes from C major and then transpose them all to C to get the formula and then eventually in every other key.

All these years later I now remember he had a video from back in the days when he was rocking a mean rug.

https://vimeo.com/322763149

While you can still build up an impressive vocabulary committing various patterns, shapes, and lines to rote memory there will always be a barrier to self expression that you'll struggle with when you try to push beyond that and that's where ear training comes in. It's not like you need to stop everything else — develop it alongside everything else you're learning. It doesn't matter whether you use conventional theory to drum it all in so it makes sense to other musicians or whether you develop your own system. All that really matters is you can hear it and it all becomes instinctive where you're reaching for notes without thinking about them and they'll be the right notes because you're internally singing them. That's what the best players are doing.

Now of course do something for 40+ years like some of them where they're drawing from a seemingly bottomless well of ideas and it's scary. That's what seeing Allan Holdsworth play live was like for me and it kind of messed me up for a while because it was like trying to climb Everest before tackling smaller peaks. It would have been better to see the guy back in the early 70s at the start of his career who was still shredding but I could more easily recognize what he was doing and then build on that.

Getting back to theory when you hear someone talking about "Lydian Dominant" (Mixolydian #4) for example it's just going to be a sequence of notes reduced to fretboard patterns until you internalize it and really digest it. This is where the ear comes in and I think piano is probably the best tool for the job since you won't get bogged down in technical stuff related to the guitar because on piano it's laid out right in front of you in the one place and you can just close your eyes and let it sink in.

I was listening to a Thomas Newman score the other day and the app on my TV is set to automatically play the next video and suddenly I'm hearing something new from him. It immediately grabbed me so I hit pause and went to the piano. Nailed the key first note and could hear the scales he was pulling it all from. That inspired me for the next hour to figure out my own piece using that as a starting point and I've revisited that several times. Without any kind of ear training I would have been lost and stuck on pause-rewind. Even when I took a long break from guitar I'd hear music and immediately be working it out in my head. That never really goes away once you train your ear as I mentioned.

The reason why pentatonic scales are a good place to start is both half steps have been removed and 5 notes are easier to memorize than 7. Minor pentatonic (1-b3-4-5-b7) works over the 3 "minor" modes of Dorian, Aeolian/minor, and Phrygian and major pentatonic (1-2-3-5-6) works over the 3 "major" modes of Lydian, major, and Mixolydian (since the 7/b7 is left out). From there adding notes or altering those scales makes more sense.

Anyway getting back to the ear, it's really important to be able to hear the sound of a scale/mode or chord which is simply a collection of notes from a scale often laid out in thirds. Being able to go "that's Dorian" when you hear that natural 6th over a minor 7 chord or "melodic minor" when you hear the natural 6th and a major 7th instead of the usual b7. Learning to hear those intervals and then hearing them played together as harmonic intervals. Suddenly that layer of mystery is removed from music and it starts to make sense. Damn mang if I keep typing you'll never read it and it'll probably crash this POS forum software so I'll call it here.

Above all never lose the passion for learning this stuff and continually remind yourself it's all a means to an end to further self expression. That's all it is. Some people use it as a vehicle for writing more complex music to impress people. To me it's about unlocking doors to expression. Instead of spending hours searching for the right chord or notes you just know where they are. Now being able to play them fast in an improv situation is where all those years of practice come in but you've got to start somewhere and I think it starts with the ear. You don't need to drop everything else and you should never lose track of why you picked up the instrument or were drawn to music in the first place. Always keep chasing that feeling. See every day as an opportunity to learn something rather than watching 30 second instagram videos of someone with incredible chops who makes you want to quit. Just keep learning. No one can ever master this chit. No one.
post 1621845161 11-07-2020, 11:20 AM
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post 1621847731 11-07-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted By rollerball
Honestly I do see that a lot of players want to sound original, have their own signature voice and whatnot.
I personally don't care about originality because, as you mentioned, at this point there is a seeming bottomless well of ideas already mapped out by many guitarists over many decades. I believe that I'd be happy simply being able to mimic the players that I find interesting.
What's obnoxious is that over time my ear for what excites me is so far beyond what I'm able to play. I love listening to Holdsworth, Krantz, and players like that but I'm a thousand times closer to Wahmatt than I am to any of those real players.

I feel like I'm going to have to woodshed a LOT with those ideas Z4v4 and you have thrown out there. The idea of ever being a truly original musician just seems unrealistic and ultimately, for me, a fool's errand.
Completely understand. It's easy to say something cliche about keeping it fun but then all of those great players put in hours of mind numbing work so you've got to find a balance with practice where it's not just aimless wanking. I haven't done any structured practice in a long time so I need to change that.

Interesting quote from Bill Bruford about AH which sheds some light on practice:
Originally Posted By Bill
“I had the good fortune to be able to offer a vehicle for Allan's music back in the late 70's, with three very successful albums that showcased his astonishing ability. Even from here in the UK, the sound of US guitar players across the pond sitting up and taking notice was deafening. To this day, his solo outing on "In The Dead Of Night" by the group UK remains one of the most perfectly formed, intelligently paced and brilliantly executed 3 minutes of liquid guitar bliss you are ever likely to hear. He's been refining his wok ever since. After three measures you know its Allan, or someone trying to sound like him. He's the leader in a field of one... ... Allan wanted to sound like John Coltrane. Problem was he’s playing guitar, not saxophone, so he had to figure out a way to get a similar ‘sheets of sound’ equivalent on guitar. The scales and intervals he chose were also all unusual, andhe didn’t become just one of the great scalar improvisers overnight. He worked like a dog on Nicolas Slonimsky’s Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns.Then, when he’d run out of notes he’d reach for the whammy bar and send shivers down your spine.”
post 1621848591 11-07-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted By Dominik
You can train your ear sitting at a piano and hearing how notes from a scale sound against popular progressions because let's face it most people are going to like subtle variations on what they've already heard before. When you hear someone improvising and they're not hitting those chord tones and resolving a line the way you'd expect then it can sound quite aimless. Of course if you only played chord tones then it's going to be boring so the art is in connecting the dots.
"connecting the dots"

also "tension and release"

edit: "consonance and dissonance"


(just adding to your point)
post 1621928381 11-08-2020, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted By Dominik
Great discussion.

EoR, I prefer Scott Henderson's playing before he turned into Jeff Beck on steroids using the bar to manipulate every note. I saw Tribal Tech live and he was starting to incorporate it but hadn't yet gone all in.

Posted this before but I don't know how you play a better fusion solo than this. It's melodic, he effortlessly sails through the changes, and as usual it's a legato masterclass. He was at the peak of his powers in the 90s. AH cast a long shadow so I didn't appreciate Gambale and Henderson as much back then.

0:50

Juicy stuff. There can never be too much said about AH.

Yep. Brett Garsed is another one. He could also tone back the intense fusion and lean more to rock. I've linked it before but his solo on this album is so good. It edges out Shawn's Solo but I think Shawn only did one take and he was frustrated he couldn't listen to the other soloists solos so he could sort of play off that. Brett's hybrid picking and legato is just nearly untouchable.



Frank is still kicking it:





Epitome of effortless playing. He's so good it hurts. Second clip has some old material of his showing that rocky/fusion blend.



There's so much out there, outside of the cliche stuff that's already been done. Once again, it's good to go through that phase when you're learning but so many guitarists are in stasis with the same techniques and never branch out. And that doesn't mean you have to play ultra dissonant because you can enter the realm of "Playing different just for the sake of it". It should be a natural process of getting a catalogue of styles and techniques so you can sort of spin them with your own order/flavor.

I was getting chord, solo and tempo ideas off even this EDM compilation. As I listen to it I just sort of solo in my head the notes then sometimes I'll jump off and go grab a guitar and riff some stuff out.



Originally Posted By rollerball
I've realized that I kinda hate the whammy bar. I really hate it when players use it to make that watery, undulating pitchy sound with every note.
It's the primary reason I've never gotten into beck.
I also hate water-y chorus sounds like the way Mike Stern uses it. Sounds like absolute chit to me, I want to hear the guitar tone not that crap.
I agree. I think the only thing I like about the whammy bar is you can vibrato chords more tastefully without pulling them off note. Besides that, 95% players I see using one always do the same sh*t with it.

I took them off on nearly all my guitars, but sometimes I'll slap it on and so like Satch scream or a Vai like "Flutter". But it's gimmicky. Even the pre whammy bends into notes like Jason Becker etc is all copied way too much.

If you get a nice clean sound, chorus, reverb, play some colorful chords and subtlety use it to vibrato as they ring out them it's really nice.

But sometimes gimmicks can work if you sort of play/popularize it first. I love how Buckhead uses the kill switch button and if I hear anything like it I just automatically think: "Buckethead".
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post 1621965501 11-08-2020, 11:46 AM
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Who needs a pick?

That intro run made me go "mmmm". Good stuff.



That run @ 0:16 is fantastic.

A nice small video on the advantages of not using a pic:



Ritchie Kotzen also abandoned the pick, but I just like a pick to much if I am on an electric. Acoustic or nylon I am 95% fingerpicking.

Plays a Guthrie cover nearly flawlessly with no pick:



Goes back to what I've said a few times, there's no shortage of brilliant talent so the only dividing aspects left are composition and original flare.
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post 1622096361 11-09-2020, 02:20 PM
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My best friend got rustled last night because I simply said I wanted a Fuzz Face. He told me "learn what I have" cause I have a Sovtek Russian Muff pedal (Black). I told him they don't sound the same though, and mentioned how he has two EHX pedals a Ram and also a Black Russian.

He got even more resulted when I said that and went off on a tangent about how he's a "songwriter" and that he has more gear than he needs and that he needs them for "different textures"

U Wot M8?

Textures referring to what? Sounds obviously meaning my previous statements about not all Fuzz Pedals sound the same.

Lol wtf was he getting rustled for? All because I said I was interested in picking up a Fuzz Face.
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Originally Posted By EoR
Brett Garsed
Back when you were a mod we used to talk about guitar and when you mentioned him it caught me off guard because I didn't venture into the Misc back then so another mod, also Aussie, on a bodybuilding forum saying that name was a WTF moment. Anyway I enjoy reading your posts about this stuff.
Originally Posted By EoR
Juicy stuff. There can never be too much said about AH.
I don't know if you went to many gigs pre-Youtube but it's easy to think maybe something sounded more impressive than it really was because you're caught up in the moment, you were still pretty green, etc. Many years later I wondered that about AH. Then I saw this which was shot in Adelaide probably 3-4 nights after the show I went to — same band, same rig, same placement of the drink on top of the amp, and the same green shirt which is all he seemed to wear. He hated bootlegs and these gigs weren't exactly packed so whoever shot this risked pissing off the band and getting tossed out. Thankfully this footage exists.

Jump to4:20and imagine you're standing a few feet away. I swear there couldn't have been more than 50 people in that room which was a little hole in the wall joint just outside the city. Had a long walk back to a friend's house that night and couldn't STFU about what I saw. His left hand looked like a giant f'king spider crawling up and down the neck and he always landed on the right note when he came out of those crazy symmetric scale legato runs. Here I am all these years later and it still blows me away.

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anybody hear this girl/woman ?

I think im in love

post 1622388261 11-12-2020, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted By Dominik
Back when you were a mod we used to talk about guitar and when you mentioned him it caught me off guard because I didn't venture into the Misc back then so another mod, also Aussie, on a bodybuilding forum saying that name was a WTF moment. Anyway I enjoy reading your posts about this stuff.

I don't know if you went to many gigs pre-Youtube but it's easy to think maybe something sounded more impressive than it really was because you're caught up in the moment, you were still pretty green, etc. Many years later I wondered that about AH. Then I saw this which was shot in Adelaide probably 3-4 nights after the show I went to — same band, same rig, same placement of the drink on top of the amp, and the same green shirt which is all he seemed to wear. He hated bootlegs and these gigs weren't exactly packed so whoever shot this risked pissing off the band and getting tossed out. Thankfully this footage exists.

Jump to4:20and imagine you're standing a few feet away. I swear there couldn't have been more than 50 people in that room which was a little hole in the wall joint just outside the city. Had a long walk back to a friend's house that night and couldn't STFU about what I saw. His left hand looked like a giant f'king spider crawling up and down the neck and he always landed on the right note when he came out of those crazy symmetric scale legato runs. Here I am all these years later and it still blows me away.

Phenomenal. I notice 4:47-4:52 Shawn Lane was a huge fan and I've seen him play around with this similar lick where you double up on the same note crossing string.

Effortless playing. Yeah I call it that floating spider or violinist that sort of perfect pitch sound when you can't hear picking or even scraping. You probably know but AH's legato he hated the slight offnote you'd get when pulling a string of center so he developed that pure finger independent style legato - not the anchor+ROLLING type.

Many people have no idea how hard it is to play that way with not having your index anchor and using a slide string pull which most people do during legato. Also how effortlessly his index would move for these wide string skipping lick. I have not truly mastered it, I have some REALLY bad legato habits that I can't shake. It would be hard to notice unless I told you but so many years have drilled mind/muscle too much for me to realistically change.

Speaking of the floating spider/violinist. My ears pick it up so quickly when someone does this. Go to 0:20 0:24 that descend pentatonic lick then the whole hooks are played with that light floaty fretting. Then that nice fusion lick @ 0:43. He improvs 90%, but always has a intro hook and ending to tie it all up. I always have to remind myself with Shawn Lane that this guy can play it all on the piano as well and guitar wasn't his first instrument to master.

Oh and there's a surprising moment in that Shawn Lane video where he plays a VERY over-worn and cliche lick that was popularized by a very iconic guitarist. See if you can spot it!



I remember those years back! I avoided the misc, I was 90% posting in the exercises section and the rest in my powerlifting journal. Maybe I should stuck with it. :P But no I love the misc, it's the only sort of free forum that exists anymore.

Brett Garsed is another example of someone who would also only have 50 people watch him, but the LEVEL of respect from those few would greatly outweigh and be more pleasurable than just anyone who can't distinguish what's going on. Small but loyal crowds, usually your peers. He looks REALLY old now, didn't age well.
Originally Posted By SekkendSyklye
anybody hear this girl/woman ?

I think im in love

It's always hard to try ignore someone's looks when you see them play. It's a natural human reaction. She's gorgeous in those videos but plays really nicely. I listened to a few more of her videos and if they are her arrangements then well done.

I was thinking maybe she is starting out then I saw 1.5mill subs and every male having comas in the comment section. lol. Either way, she has some credibility. Nothing crazy but very nice to listen to.

I've dated a few "Muso" chicks in the past, one was pretty solid on the piano. It definitely helps to have a common hobby/skill.
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post 1622464591 11-12-2020, 08:09 PM
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post 1622484281 11-13-2020, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted By rollerball
Here's a cover of a cool paul gilbert solo I discovered in the middle of a f*cking terrible mr. big song. They have really cringe inducing songs but with some awesome guitar parts.
I missed the first set of notes or so and you can't really hear what I'm playing but just *look* at my hands and you can just tell how powerful and accurate my execution is. I will now take the mantle as the resident misc paul gilbert master.

Awesome stuff, your volume was a bit low but I can't say much since my audio clips needed max windows volume haha. I love PG.

One of my favorites songs was when he was in Racer X. This song makes you want to speed while driving. Classic PG chunky rock/metal and licks. The only downside is the singer, he was never really that good and ruined a lot of the songs.

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post 1622506521 11-13-2020, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted By EoR
You probably know but AH's legato he hated the slight offnote you'd get when pulling a string of center so he developed that pure finger independent style legato - not the anchor+ROLLING type.
It's incredibly hard to do cleanly while descending without something muting the strings so he's still pulling off at times but with far less of the rolling you describe like Satriani, Petrucci, etc. If you slowed it down you'd still hear it but we're splitting hairs.

What is lost today is that the guy developed his approach entirely on his own. No Youtube. No $200,000 Berklee course. No Skype lessons with top players. No watching crystal clear instructional videos with TAB. Entirely self taught. I guarantee pre-Youtube anyone seeing him live back then would have been at a loss to fully understand it because there's only so much you can digest at real speed. Today with software to slow everything down, millions of people sharing transcriptions, etc. there isn't any mystery. I saw a video a while back of City Nights played note for note. Great job butthe man himself never played that solo again.That's the fundamental difference between parrots and the real thing.

Also people copying him only touch the single note side of it. His chordal playing was on the same level but very few go there. While you can get around those big stretches on one string you can't cheat with those freaky voicings.
post 1622506531 11-13-2020, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted By SekkendSyklye
anybody hear this girl/woman ?

I think im in love

1.35M subscribers...

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post 1622507561 11-13-2020, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted By EoR
One of my favorites songs was when he was in Racer X.
Fukkin love Racer X. My all time fav from the live album:

“In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.”

-General George S. Patton
post 1622507731 11-13-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted By terrorgunt
Fukkin love Racer X. My all time fav from the live album:

Going to give that a listen.















Originally Posted By Dominik
It's incredibly hard to do cleanly while descending without something muting the strings so he's still pulling off at times but with far less of the rolling you describe like Satriani, Petrucci, etc. If you slowed it down you'd still hear it but we're splitting hairs.

What is lost today is that the guy developed his approach entirely on his own. No Youtube. No $200,000 Berklee course. No Skype lessons with top players. No watching crystal clear instructional videos with TAB. Entirely self taught. I guarantee pre-Youtube anyone seeing him live back then would have been at a loss to fully understand it because there's only so much you can digest at real speed. Today with software to slow everything down, millions of people sharing transcriptions, etc. there isn't any mystery. I saw a video a while back of City Nights played note for note. Great job butthe man himself never played that solo again.That's the fundamental difference between parrots and the real thing.

Also people copying him only touch the single note side of it. His chordal playing was on the same level but very few go there. While you can get around those big stretches on one string you can't cheat with those freaky voicings.
True, he might have worded it "As little as possible" rather than NONE. But yes to achieve that level on your own without barely any resources available shows you that it was inborn talent as well. A true pioneer, that's why people will say: "That sounds like a Holdsworth line". That's when you know you've made it.

Guthrie Govan actually did a demo of 4 note per string chromatic using pretty much no string bending on pull offs and only one finger fretted at a time but yes it's nearly impossible to do perfectly and is pretty much impossible to do fast if you have high action. But you can do it so it's so minimal that you don't hear even a slight bend in the string. You have to have each finger move up and down independently, it's very hard to train your muscle memory to do this when the other way is much more intuitive.

However, if you want to play that "Note from nowhere" style like Shawn Lane and other greats you have to learn this technique. Try playing a descending lick from high E to Low E only using hammer-ons, that's a good exercise to retrain how you deal with legato and phrasing.

As we've talked about before, during a tutorial video he says half the chords he doesn't know exactly what they are or the progression because he just sees them all in the scale - chordal scales I think they call it. It's amazing the random chord progression you can get using this style. For example in E-minor I go up and down just playing as many 3-5 group chords within that scale and you just get some wild ideas.

Shawn Lane was star struck in this interview with him. When you have who I think was the the most skilled and intelligent musician ever--he went beyond guitar--acting like a schoolgirl then you know it's a great.



"Finally Allan Holdsworth, the greatest" - Shawn Lane
"Not really" Allan Holdsworth
Originally Posted By Dominik
1.35M subscribers...

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Swim just needs to stuff his shirt and put on a blonde wig.
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post 1622508451 11-13-2020, 10:08 AM
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post 1622511401 11-13-2020, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted By EoR
Guthrie Govan actually did a demo of 4 note per string chromatic using pretty much no string bending on pull offs and only one finger fretted at a time but yes it's nearly impossible to do perfectly and is pretty much impossible to do fast if you have high action. But you can do it so it's so minimal that you don't hear even a slight bend in the string. You have to have each finger move up and down independently, it's very hard to train your muscle memory to do this when the other way is much more intuitive.

However, if you want to play that "Note from nowhere" style like Shawn Lane and other greats you have to learn this technique. Try playing a descending lick from high E to Low E only using hammer-ons, that's a good exercise to retrain how you deal with legato and phrasing.
I've always felt the 8-36 gauge strings and railroad ties (6000) for frets made a big difference there. Of course you have to have a very light touch. I play 12-54, medium-high action, and with not much gain these days so I've had to completely change my approach. I still use legato but I pick more notes to keep it going and don't play as many notes on the one string.
Originally Posted By EoR
As we've talked about before, during a tutorial video he says half the chords he doesn't know exactly what they are or the progression because he just sees them all in the scale - chordal scales I think they call it. It's amazing the random chord progression you can get using this style. For example in E-minor I go up and down just playing as many 3-5 group chords within that scale and you just get some wild ideas.
That chord scale thing is the only thing I really got from it. And video footage of those live performances which was great of course. Let's face it AH hated clones and saw no reason to give any secrets away. I'll tell you what though, his chordal approach is the secret to improvising complex single note lines the way he did by seeing all those intervals in clusters moving up and down the neck.
post 1622513171 11-13-2020, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted By rollerball
Haha thanks, I was glad to get a decent take despite the volume issues and red light fever.

Imagine being the other guitarist in Racer X. Are people aware there was another one? What's his name even? What does he even look like? Does anyone know? lmao.
Dude Bruce Bouillet was rad.

“In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.”

-General George S. Patton
post 1622515621 11-13-2020, 11:25 AM
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post 1622517101 11-13-2020, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted By rollerball
Lol he shreds.. which just shows how good paul gilbert really is to so completely overshadow the other guy in the guitar pantheon of history.
Paul was his private tutor prior to him joining! What a time to be alive.
“In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.”

-General George S. Patton
post 1622519691 11-13-2020, 12:12 PM
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[QUOTE=rollerball post_id=1622464591]Here's a cover of a cool paul gilbert solo I discovered in the middle of a f*cking terrible mr. big song. They have really cringe inducing songs but with some awesome guitar parts.
I missed the first set of notes or so and you can't really hear what I'm playing but just *look* at my hands and you can just tell how powerful and accurate my execution is. I will now take the mantle as the resident misc paul gilbert master.[img]//assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[youtube]mnWTFcx2Lyc[/yo][/QUOTE]Nice one breh srs..

[QUOTE=Dominik post_id=1622506531]1.35M subscribers...

[b]Spoiler![/b][SPOILER]SwimToTheMoon has left the chat[/SPOILER][/QUOTE]She's really good though tbf, i'm more mad at the ones with their tits out and 0 skill.. This girl is a hbb with skills..
post 1622520261 11-13-2020, 12:19 PM
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