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Forum » What do you think is 'fair'?
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Thread: What do you think is 'fair'?

post 1622937471 11-17-2020, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted By Gizzyhardcore⏩
lmao its cause your'e fn retarded with zero financial skills

Mortgage payment = Interest + principal

Interest = cost of borrowing
Principle = paying back the loan, in effect gaining equity.

When you refinance the main thing that happens is you change the rate at which you pay off the principle.

The 100% fair thing is to split 50/50 the interest cost.

If its the full mortgage payment, they are also splitting the principle payments and have bought some of your house for you.


lmao misc doesn't even know what makes up a mortgage payment and hence confuses itself
uhh i dont see how that makes anything different. I dont know anyone who breaks up their principle and interest payments, they are always lumped together and just called "mortgage" which is all that OP is talking about. Why would someone break apart the interest and principle and ask someone to pay only a portion of one of them? I mean if we were talking about OP paying extra towards the principle thats a different story but I havn't seen that mentioned. Honestly if OP was a real financial superstar she would pay her mortgage and use BF's portion towards the principle and have the house paid off way earlier and much less spent on interest.

If anything a renter like OP's boyfriend would normally pay mortgage + extra if paying to rent a house or apartment. So hes getting a deal by only paying half of the mortgage. But hes also being cucked because hes paying off OP's debt for her mortgage. So hes losing his half but shes keeping his half in equity.
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post 1622937701 11-17-2020, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted By DizzySmalls⏩
That'll be the day anyone lets me live somewhere for just the interest cost. BRB cheapest housing in America

By this logic, houses that are paid off are free to live in. Lol...
lmao, wow you really don't know do you.

A lot of properties that are rented the rent won't even cover the interest, let along the full mortgage payments, let alone + property expenses.

This is called negative gearing, its pretty common in the property world.

What the owners hope is they get mad capital gains, hence they are happy to hold negative cashflow properties.

You should look into it.
post 1622937831 11-17-2020, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Gizzyhardcore⏩
lmao, wow you really don't know do you.

A lot of properties that are rented the rent won't even cover the interest, let along the full mortgage payments, let alone + property expenses.

This is called negative gearing, its pretty common in the property world.

What the owners hope is they get mad capital gains, hence they are happy to hold negative cashflow properties.

You should look into it.
Do you live on planet Earth in 2020? I'm not going to let you even get emotional this is so retarded. Americans are talking

I could pay the interest by selling my **** in the streets rates are so low. Rents are extremely high.
post 1622938141 11-17-2020, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I mean, real estate and rental markets everywhere in the world are exactly the same.
Let me live in one of your houses for your interest cost boomer or stfu. One day you will learn that post count doesn't make you the "winner" of anything. Nobody wins
post 1622938221 11-17-2020, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Again, the weak resort to namecalling, because they have no argument.
Let me know when that deal is available booms
post 1622938391 11-17-2020, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Describe the services you are willing to provide, similar to the arrangement in OP.
I'll pay the interest cost on one of your properties accrued on whatever principal you have financed. You keep the capital gains

The boldness of that retard to come in with something so blatantly false yet with so much confidence. It baffles the mind
post 1622938501 11-17-2020, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I mean, real estate and rental markets everywhere in the world are exactly the same.
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post 1622938761 11-17-2020, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Once again, as in OP, describe the services you are willing to provide. Come on, your reading comprehension cannot be that bad.
Go ahead and quote the services listed in the OP.
post 1622938861 11-17-2020, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted By littlemissy⏩
Fun conversation this morning:


Person A is dating person B and they live together. (They are not married)

Person A owns the home they live in. Person B agreed to pay 50% of whatever the mortgage is.

For numbers sake lets say they each pay 500 dollars.

Person A decides to refi their home.

30 Year mortgage gets lower payments (let's say it goes from 1K a month to 500 a month)

15 Year mortgage raises the payments (Let's say it goes from 1k a month to 1,300 a month)



If person A refi for 30 - should person B pay less meaning rent drops from 500 to 250? or pays the same as they pay now? (the 500)

If person A refi for 15 - should person B pay more (650)? or pays the same as they pay now? (the 500)

Let's hear it misc.
is your boyfriend trying to get more money out of you?

split it the expenses evenly, anything other than that is unfair
Merica

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RIP YGST
post 1622938881 11-17-2020, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
uhh i dont see how that makes anything different. I dont know anyone who breaks up their principle and interest payments, they are always lumped together and just called "mortgage" which is all that OP is talking about. Why would someone break apart the interest and principle and ask someone to pay only a portion of one of them? I mean if we were talking about OP paying extra towards the principle thats a different story but I havn't seen that mentioned. Honestly if OP was a real financial superstar she would pay her mortgage and use BF's portion towards the principle and have the house paid off way earlier and much less spent on interest.

If anything a renter like OP's boyfriend would normally pay mortgage + extra if paying to rent a house or apartment. So hes getting a deal by only paying half of the mortgage. But hes also being cucked because hes paying off OP's debt for her mortgage. So hes losing his half but shes keeping his half in equity.
Differentiating between principle and interest is pretty key. If you run a rental your "mortgage" payments are tax deductible, but what they really mean is specifically that only the interest payments are. The principle is paying down the debt, this is not an expense.

Misc really is not very aware on this subject. i don't even know if half interest is fair. Whats fair would be market rent. Sometimes this won't even cover the rent. Sometimes it does.

The property has been funded by the deposit + a loan.
The cost of the loan is the interest.

Maybe he could ask for the half of the opportunity cost of the money he deposited. Say he bought the property outright, this would be fair - hey I have $500k tied up in this property, I could invest this at 5%, thats $25k a year i am missing out on, hence you pay half, $12,500 - about $240 a week.

But in this scenario hes bought a house with the banks money. The bank is in a way hence saying hey I could invest this elsewhere, pay me some opportunity cost on the money, (whatever the interest rate is). The guy is paying that. So he should ask her to contribute half.


I don't agree with asking for the full mortgage payment, as the principle component is building equity. Its paying off the loan. If you get into ownership then what would also be "fair" is have some of the equity.
post 1622939011 11-17-2020, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
So you're not willing to barter? Too bad.
As in the OP, please list the giraffes that are eating leaves.
post 1622939301 11-17-2020, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Thanks for conceding, the second time, in the same thread.

One of these days you might be able to keep up with me. But that day is not today - and by the looks of it won't be anytime soon.
You are off in your own world right now. Maybe huffing duster or something? I have no comment on strange personal remarks that have no relation to anything.
post 1622939311 11-17-2020, 08:12 PM
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Depends on what the actual agreement was. If it was 50% it stays 50%. If it was $500/month then it stays $500/month
post 1622939831 11-17-2020, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Only OP will ever know. And it seems like she's more interested in how to make this work for her advantage more than what would be fair.



Interesting, talking about "strange personal remarks that have no relation to anything". It seems like you really like putting your foot in your mouth:



Seriously, you should just stop now.
Quoting you so you'll respond again
post 1622939951 11-17-2020, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Quoting so you will keep crying.
Quote
post 1622940161 11-17-2020, 08:21 PM
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I don't think anyone else has ever gotten you this deranged. I've managed to top aleeboy and LogOutBrah without even trying.
post 1622940481 11-17-2020, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Dude, I'm literally laughing at you right now.

One thing you are correct in though, you've managed to match those guys in their delusions.
I'm laughing right back. You have this unearned sense of superiority for no reason where you think you have made some great arguments when you haven't said anything coherent and never even attempt to make a cogent restatement of whatever point you thought was so great. You may actually be Bobby.
post 1622940511 11-17-2020, 08:24 PM
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I asked OP to go on a date with me. She never responded
post 1622941121 11-17-2020, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted By Gizzyhardcore⏩
Differentiating between principle and interest is pretty key. If you run a rental your "mortgage" payments are tax deductible, but what they really mean is specifically that only the interest payments are. The principle is paying down the debt, this is not an expense.

Misc really is not very aware on this subject. i don't even know if half interest is fair. Whats fair would be market rent. Sometimes this won't even cover the rent. Sometimes it does.

The property has been funded by the deposit + a loan.
The cost of the loan is the interest.

Maybe he could ask for the half of the opportunity cost of the money he deposited. Say he bought the property outright, this would be fair - hey I have $500k tied up in this property, I could invest this at 5%, thats $25k a year i am missing out on, hence you pay half, $12,500 - about $240 a week.

But in this scenario hes bought a house with the banks money. The bank is in a way hence saying hey I could invest this elsewhere, pay me some opportunity cost on the money, (whatever the interest rate is). The guy is paying that. So he should ask her to contribute half.


I don't agree with asking for the full mortgage payment, as the principle component is building equity. Its paying off the loan. If you get into ownership then what would also be "fair" is have some of the equity.
"He" didnt buy anything or own anything "She" is the one who bought the house first off.

Second, she is paying the mortgage, so the interest and the principle. Say that is $1000. so say that is 800 in principle and 200 in interest. Why should She pay $900 a month and him pay only $100 to live with her in the house and have free riegn of the house equal to her but only pay 1/10th of the monthly costs for that house?

In my opinion I would offer to pay 30% because she is getting to keep the equity in the house and he wont see any returns on his payments. He is essentially giving her money to pay off the mortgage(principle and interest) for the opportunity to get to stay there.
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post 1622941711 11-17-2020, 08:36 PM
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I didn't read whole thread but I literally casually brought this up to my gf the other day. I own the condo we both live in (downtown Boston). From a logical standpoint, what makes the most sense is to find out the market rate of what the unit can rent for and each person should pay half of that. For example, my unit has a market rate of $2600/month for 1 BDR. So Ishouldcharge her $1300 because if were both just roommates then that would be fair.

I refinanced my mortgage a few months ago from a 15 year to a 30 year when rates were super low. My total payment/tax/hoa went from ~$3700/month to $2350/month currently. One could argue I should charge $1175 since that's half of my payments but my mortgage is irrelevant because just a few months ago the same exact unit would have cost $1850.

TLDR: I don't charge her anything and she takes up more than half the bed
post 1622941721 11-17-2020, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted By Gizzyhardcore⏩
Differentiating between principle and interest is pretty key. If you run a rental your "mortgage" payments are tax deductible, but what they really mean is specifically that only the interest payments are. The principle is paying down the debt, this is not an expense.

Misc really is not very aware on this subject. i don't even know if half interest is fair. Whats fair would be market rent. Sometimes this won't even cover the rent. Sometimes it does.

The property has been funded by the deposit + a loan.
The cost of the loan is the interest.

Maybe he could ask for the half of the opportunity cost of the money he deposited. Say he bought the property outright, this would be fair - hey I have $500k tied up in this property, I could invest this at 5%, thats $25k a year i am missing out on, hence you pay half, $12,500 - about $240 a week.

But in this scenario hes bought a house with the banks money. The bank is in a way hence saying hey I could invest this elsewhere, pay me some opportunity cost on the money, (whatever the interest rate is). The guy is paying that. So he should ask her to contribute half.


I don't agree with asking for the full mortgage payment, as the principle component is building equity. Its paying off the loan. If you get into ownership then what would also be "fair" is have some of the equity.
You are just flexing now, we get it you accountantmaxxed let’s move on



Just have the cuck pay the 500 bucks OP, and suck his dick properly ffs that’s what you should be worrying about, dudes going to monkeybranch anytime and you are going to be left with the pikachu meme face. Suck that D
"The flowers bloom, then wither... The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
post 1622942241 11-17-2020, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted By Titansfan08⏩
Make it easy and just split it 50% no matter what
This.
post 1622942481 11-17-2020, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted By Ken-O⏩
You are just flexing now, we get it you accountantmaxxed let’s move on



Just have the cuck pay the 500 bucks OP, and suck his dick properly ffs that’s what you should be worrying about, dudes going to monkeybranch anytime and you are going to be left with the pikachu meme face. Suck that D
ehhhh doubt thats going to happen. She holds the power in pretty much every aspect
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post 1622942501 11-17-2020, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
For effect:

Spoiler!
Das it lol
"The flowers bloom, then wither... The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
post 1622942561 11-17-2020, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted By DizzySmalls⏩
Do you live on planet Earth in 2020? I'm not going to let you even get emotional this is so retarded. Americans are talking

I could pay the interest by selling my **** in the streets rates are so low. Rents are extremely high.
Bro it already is retarded, Americans are talking.

that marble of a brain bouncing around in your head will need to adjust beyond "rents are high" and "interest rates are low" to even have a basic understanding of the property market and rents. Before you even start thinking about interest / principle components of a mortgage.

To the rest of the misc, I know you're likely financially illiterate so I will try and explain this as easily as possible.

Not sure how you don't understand that principle payment is not an expense, its building equity.

Example
30 years your mortgage payment is mainly interest but with a bit of principle, the loan balance slowly goes down... as it does the interest becomes less and the principle more.. until its paid off in 30 years

15 years... you pay it off faster, more of the mortgage payment is principle, less is interest

Now lets take an extreme example, one year. On a $500k property at 2.5% it would mean $12,500 of interest, $500,000 of principle. Its fair to charge someone half the FULL mortgage payment or just the interest?

5 Years? your mortgage payments are still mainly principle... $8,874 per month, only $1,041 being interest...

It should only ever be interest.

Source. Property investor since 2001
post 1622942831 11-17-2020, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
ehhhh doubt thats going to happen. She holds the power in pretty much every aspect
As someone who has been a simp before... I have faith that person b can change.

This situation may be his calling. I cringe at the thought of having to discuss with my significant other **** like this, brb going to bed together all uncomfortable and **** over a few hundred bucks
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post 1622942991 11-17-2020, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted By Gizzyhardcore⏩
Bro it already is retarded, Americans are talking.

that marble of a brain bouncing around in your head will need to adjust beyond "rents are high" and "interest rates are low" to even have a basic understanding of the property market and rents. Before you even start thinking about interest / principle components of a mortgage.

To the rest of the misc, I know you're likely financially illiterate so I will try and explain this as easily as possible.

Not sure how you don't understand that principle payment is not an expense, its building equity.

Example
30 years your mortgage payment is mainly interest but with a bit of principle, the loan balance slowly goes down... as it does the interest becomes less and the principle more.. until its paid off in 30 years

15 years... you pay it off faster, more of the mortgage payment is principle, less is interest

Now lets take an extreme example, one year. On a $500k property at 2.5% it would mean $12,500 of interest, $500,000 of principle. Its fair to charge someone half the FULL mortgage payment or just the interest?

5 Years? your mortgage payments are still mainly principle... $8,874 per month, only $1,041 being interest...

It should only ever be interest.

Source. Property investor since 2001
you keep just talking about principle and interest and how loans work.

This still has nothing to do with how OP and her boyfriend decide to split up the mortgage payment.

Why does principle and interest matter to OP's boyfriend, both of them are irrelevant to him because he has no stake in the ownership of the property. His only concern is a place to live and paying his portion.

OP on the other hand is paying off the house. We arent arguing here is it smarter for OP to do a 30 year or 15 year loan. the argument here is should OP's boyfriend pay more if she goes with the 15 year or less if she goes with the 30 year, or the same as he has been paying. Either way he is paying her money towards the interest and principle.

Yes we fukking understand at the beginning of a loan you are paying off interest and later on you are paying off the prinicple. Yes we understand what refinancing a loan means.

That isnt what is even being argued here.


OP owns the house
her boyfriend doesnt

this isnt an investment property, this is both of their primary residence

how do they split up the mortgage payment....

FFS stop making this a class on how loans work
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post 1622943161 11-17-2020, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted By Gizzyhardcore⏩
Bro it already is retarded, Americans are talking.

that marble of a brain bouncing around in your head will need to adjust beyond "rents are high" and "interest rates are low" to even have a basic understanding of the property market and rents. Before you even start thinking about interest / principle components of a mortgage.

To the rest of the misc, I know you're likely financially illiterate so I will try and explain this as easily as possible.

Not sure how you don't understand that principle payment is not an expense, its building equity.

Example
30 years your mortgage payment is mainly interest but with a bit of principle, the loan balance slowly goes down... as it does the interest becomes less and the principle more.. until its paid off in 30 years

15 years... you pay it off faster, more of the mortgage payment is principle, less is interest

Now lets take an extreme example, one year. On a $500k property at 2.5% it would mean $12,500 of interest, $500,000 of principle. Its fair to charge someone half the FULL mortgage payment or just the interest?

5 Years? your mortgage payments are still mainly principle... $8,874 per month, only $1,041 being interest...

It should only ever be interest.

Source. Property investor since 2001
Amortization tables are all well and good, but this has nothing to do with what you charge somebody who is essentially playing the role of tenant. The person who buys the home and assumes the risks and makes the payments may view it as an investment, but that doesn't change the market value of living in a house to just be the interest. The person a few posts above got it perfect. The fair amount is a split of the market rate of rent for the property. Anything lower than that is fine if that's what you agree to, but that's a favor to the other person, not a "fair" rate. Fair value is market value.

The easiest way to show the flaw in your thinking is to pretend OP paid off the house a few years ago and is just wondering what is fair. The interest is zero, and because of the value of property being durable and long lasting, say it's not an expense (depreciation and tax both are but whatever). The cost of living there should then be zero under your logic
post 1622943211 11-17-2020, 08:51 PM
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#269
  1. cruz02148
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Originally Posted By Gizzyhardcore⏩
Bro it already is retarded, Americans are talking.

that marble of a brain bouncing around in your head will need to adjust beyond "rents are high" and "interest rates are low" to even have a basic understanding of the property market and rents. Before you even start thinking about interest / principle components of a mortgage.

To the rest of the misc, I know you're likely financially illiterate so I will try and explain this as easily as possible.

Not sure how you don't understand that principle payment is not an expense, its building equity.

Example
30 years your mortgage payment is mainly interest but with a bit of principle, the loan balance slowly goes down... as it does the interest becomes less and the principle more.. until its paid off in 30 years

15 years... you pay it off faster, more of the mortgage payment is principle, less is interest

Now lets take an extreme example, one year. On a $500k property at 2.5% it would mean $12,500 of interest, $500,000 of principle. Its fair to charge someone half the FULL mortgage payment or just the interest?

5 Years? your mortgage payments are still mainly principle... $8,874 per month, only $1,041 being interest...

It should only ever be interest.

Source. Property investor since 2001
this does make perfect financial sense and I agree with the idea. However, the only real problem with this is that as the owner of the property, you don't have sole use of the property and then need to share the unit with that other person. This is more obvious in situations where you have 2 dudes living together and you don't sleep in the same bed, need to share fridge space, etc. This is where the idea of paying fair market rate makes more sense because you are losing the sole access to the space.

Of course, in relationships this model is much more flawed since there are obviously compromises made so both people can live together in the space.
post 1622943301 11-17-2020, 08:52 PM
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  1. cruz02148
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Originally Posted By DizzySmalls⏩
Amortization tables are all well and good, but this has nothing to do with what you charge somebody who is essentially playing the role of tenant. The person who buys the home and assumes the risks and makes the payments may view it as an investment, but that doesn't change the market value of living in a house to just be the interest. The person a few posts above got it perfect. The fair amount is a split of the market rate of rent for the property. Anything lower than that is fine if that's what you agree to, but that's a favor to the other person, not a "fair" rate. Fair value is market value.
this
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