Forum
»
Lately i 've been thinking that human beings dont really have a choice about anything
12-28-2020, 11:56 AM
-
#61
- Tomohokk
- Registered User
-
- Tomohokk
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2011
- Age: 38
- Posts: 7,123
- Rep Power: 22563
-
-
Originally Posted By suave2000⏩
This. Haven't even read this book but this is true and I know this deep down.You should read this book bro, the cover seems like random scifi bs but it's a very well put aproach in determinism
According to the auther we humans are mere actors and the destiny is the director, if we go against the flow of destiny we will only find pain and suffering. I believe in determinish and destiny srs.
According to the auther we humans are mere actors and the destiny is the director, if we go against the flow of destiny we will only find pain and suffering. I believe in determinish and destiny srs.
You do have some semblance of free will - how you feel about things. Or you can go against the flow of this 'director' but this 'director' will make your life miserable by being unaligned with your purpose.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
...............................R.I.P.................................
.............Aziz "Zyzz" Sergeyevich Shavershian.........
.................₪₪₪₪₪₪1989-2011₪₪₪₪₪₪.............
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
12-28-2020, 11:58 AM
-
#62
- SultanofBling
- Mean & Green
-
- SultanofBling
- Mean & Green
- Join Date: Aug 2020
- Posts: 6,968
- Rep Power: 17762
-
-
Flipped through the thread, saw way too many posters beleaguered by toxic deterministic, fatalistic thinking. I'm on my lunch break, I'll comment.
Firstly, let's assume that free will is real. Acceptance of free-will, and, ultimately, the agony of life, is the point from which we must begin. It's omnipresent and tangible. Let's take for example that you awaken one morning, and step out onto your balcony. Thoughts flash in your mind, terrible images of you standing on the brink of a great precipice. You picture your body falling through the air, and imagine the sensation that might flush your nervous system as flesh strikes concrete from a thirty-story drop. A nuanced cognitive process is playing out in an instant. Your brain entertains the concept of one's self-destruction, and flushes your mind with impending disaster. Ultimately, you dismiss it -- its adverse your interests! You turn back and go inside. This is a facet of free will -- the idea that you simultaneously hold the keys to both your creation and your undoing. Every action that you have taken, and ultimately will take, is an extension of this premise. How you choose to greet the day, the activities you fill your time with, the ideas you court -- these all feed You.
For many, that is a terrifying idea. The notion of You in the world, naked and responsible for your own wellbeing seems brutal -- itsagonizing. That's why we call it the agony of human existence. Far easier to take comfort in the easy lies that one's path and destiny are pre-ordained and set by the stars! But let's take a step back for a second here and recognize the power inherent in accepting this idea of free-will. Example: as bodybuilders, it is an easy premise to accept that by lifting weights, one will build one's strength. The argument is similar for the human condition. Taking accountability for one's actions, applying logic rather than emotion -- these are all ways in which you seize control over your destiny and become something more than a reed blown in the wind.
To bring it back to choices, by filling your day with beneficial events, and shifting away from negative events (note: destructive), one can attain self-actualization and ultimately true happiness. Anything else is deterministic BS and is as useful to you as a horoscope.
Firstly, let's assume that free will is real. Acceptance of free-will, and, ultimately, the agony of life, is the point from which we must begin. It's omnipresent and tangible. Let's take for example that you awaken one morning, and step out onto your balcony. Thoughts flash in your mind, terrible images of you standing on the brink of a great precipice. You picture your body falling through the air, and imagine the sensation that might flush your nervous system as flesh strikes concrete from a thirty-story drop. A nuanced cognitive process is playing out in an instant. Your brain entertains the concept of one's self-destruction, and flushes your mind with impending disaster. Ultimately, you dismiss it -- its adverse your interests! You turn back and go inside. This is a facet of free will -- the idea that you simultaneously hold the keys to both your creation and your undoing. Every action that you have taken, and ultimately will take, is an extension of this premise. How you choose to greet the day, the activities you fill your time with, the ideas you court -- these all feed You.
For many, that is a terrifying idea. The notion of You in the world, naked and responsible for your own wellbeing seems brutal -- itsagonizing. That's why we call it the agony of human existence. Far easier to take comfort in the easy lies that one's path and destiny are pre-ordained and set by the stars! But let's take a step back for a second here and recognize the power inherent in accepting this idea of free-will. Example: as bodybuilders, it is an easy premise to accept that by lifting weights, one will build one's strength. The argument is similar for the human condition. Taking accountability for one's actions, applying logic rather than emotion -- these are all ways in which you seize control over your destiny and become something more than a reed blown in the wind.
To bring it back to choices, by filling your day with beneficial events, and shifting away from negative events (note: destructive), one can attain self-actualization and ultimately true happiness. Anything else is deterministic BS and is as useful to you as a horoscope.
None of the above constitutes legal advice nor should be interpreted as such.
12-28-2020, 12:00 PM
-
#63
12-28-2020, 12:02 PM
-
#64
- WoWzerzzzz
- Banned
-
- WoWzerzzzz
- Banned
- Join Date: Aug 2020
- Age: 56
- Posts: 2,910
- Rep Power: 0
-
-
Originally Posted By MetroBrah⏩
true, so then some people only exist to show you not to choose that pathYour reactions to those distractions are determined by your genetics and environmental influences.
To further expound, there are no distractions. Because where you end up is where you were always meant to be. From before you were even born.
To further expound, there are no distractions. Because where you end up is where you were always meant to be. From before you were even born.
12-28-2020, 12:02 PM
-
#65
- aleeboy
- It's over for you
-
- aleeboy
- It's over for you
- Join Date: Dec 2008
- Posts: 23,424
- Rep Power: 87439
-
-
Originally Posted By suave2000⏩
The aleeboy is ok with this.You should read this book bro, the cover seems like random scifi bs but it's a very well put aproach in determinism
According to the auther we humans are mere actors and the destiny is the director, if we go against the flow of destiny we will only find pain and suffering. I believe in determinish and destiny srs.
According to the auther we humans are mere actors and the destiny is the director, if we go against the flow of destiny we will only find pain and suffering. I believe in determinish and destiny srs.
Also a gentle reminder that genetics determines a large part of your destiny. And it’s almost 2021 and there are “males” that still eat teh vagina?
ROFL
Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."
Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
12-28-2020, 12:10 PM
-
#66
Originally Posted By SultanofBling⏩
To me, all of these choices you have laid out are a part of the illusion. We are all trying to seek pleasure and avoid pain. Those are biological responses. These responses are determined by our genetics and shaped by our environment.Flipped through the thread, saw way too many posters beleaguered by toxic deterministic, fatalistic thinking. I'm on my lunch break, I'll comment.
Firstly, let's assume that free will is real. Acceptance of free-will, and, ultimately, the agony of life, is the point from which we must begin. It's omnipresent and tangible. Let's take for example that you awaken one morning, and step out onto your balcony. Thoughts flash in your mind, terrible images of you standing on the brink of a great precipice. You picture your body falling through the air, and imagine the sensation that might flush your nervous system as flesh strikes concrete from a thirty-story drop. A nuanced cognitive process is playing out in an instant. Your brain entertains the concept of one's self-destruction, and flushes your mind with impending disaster. Ultimately, you dismiss it -- its adverse your interests! You turn back and go inside. This is a facet of free will -- the idea that you simultaneously hold the keys to both your creation and your undoing. Every action that you have taken, and ultimately will take, is an extension of this premise. How you choose to greet the day, the activities you fill your time with, the ideas you court -- these all feed You.
For many, that is a terrifying idea. The notion of You in the world, naked and responsible for your own wellbeing seems brutal -- itsagonizing. That's why we call it the agony of human existence. Far easier to take comfort in the easy lies that one's path and destiny are pre-ordained and set by the stars! But let's take a step back for a second here and recognize the power inherent in accepting this idea of free-will. Example: as bodybuilders, it is an easy premise to accept that by lifting weights, one will build one's strength. The argument is similar for the human condition. Taking accountability for one's actions, applying logic rather than emotion -- these are all ways in which you seize control over your destiny and become something more than a reed blown in the wind.
To bring it back to choices, by filling your day with beneficial events, and shifting away from negative events (note: destructive), one can attain self-actualization and ultimately true happiness. Anything else is deterministic BS and is as useful to you as a horoscope.
Firstly, let's assume that free will is real. Acceptance of free-will, and, ultimately, the agony of life, is the point from which we must begin. It's omnipresent and tangible. Let's take for example that you awaken one morning, and step out onto your balcony. Thoughts flash in your mind, terrible images of you standing on the brink of a great precipice. You picture your body falling through the air, and imagine the sensation that might flush your nervous system as flesh strikes concrete from a thirty-story drop. A nuanced cognitive process is playing out in an instant. Your brain entertains the concept of one's self-destruction, and flushes your mind with impending disaster. Ultimately, you dismiss it -- its adverse your interests! You turn back and go inside. This is a facet of free will -- the idea that you simultaneously hold the keys to both your creation and your undoing. Every action that you have taken, and ultimately will take, is an extension of this premise. How you choose to greet the day, the activities you fill your time with, the ideas you court -- these all feed You.
For many, that is a terrifying idea. The notion of You in the world, naked and responsible for your own wellbeing seems brutal -- itsagonizing. That's why we call it the agony of human existence. Far easier to take comfort in the easy lies that one's path and destiny are pre-ordained and set by the stars! But let's take a step back for a second here and recognize the power inherent in accepting this idea of free-will. Example: as bodybuilders, it is an easy premise to accept that by lifting weights, one will build one's strength. The argument is similar for the human condition. Taking accountability for one's actions, applying logic rather than emotion -- these are all ways in which you seize control over your destiny and become something more than a reed blown in the wind.
To bring it back to choices, by filling your day with beneficial events, and shifting away from negative events (note: destructive), one can attain self-actualization and ultimately true happiness. Anything else is deterministic BS and is as useful to you as a horoscope.
For example, I work out religiously and run 2 (about to start another) businesses. Both businesses producing more income than any of the previous years. I could pat myself on the back and stroke my ego about how awesome I am, or I can realize that if I was the unemployed guy living in the ghetto, If I had his particular set of genetics and same past, I would have ended up in the same spot.
This is why I no longer subscribe to bootstrap mentality. I just can't wrap my head around it. I think Ken-O had a good example with the ped0s and murderers. Obviously, they should be punished with the full extent of the law, but they were ultimately doomed from the start.
12-28-2020, 12:27 PM
-
#67
- SultanofBling
- Mean & Green
-
- SultanofBling
- Mean & Green
- Join Date: Aug 2020
- Posts: 6,968
- Rep Power: 17762
-
-
Originally Posted By MetroBrah⏩
I'll draw out weaknesses in your own reasoning:To me, all of these choices you have laid out are a part of the illusion. We are all trying to seek pleasure and avoid pain. Those are biological responses. These responses are determined by our genetics and shaped by our environment.
For example, I work out religiously and run 2 (about to start another) businesses. Both businesses producing more income than any of the previous years. I could pat myself on the back and stroke my ego about how awesome I am, or I can realize that if I was the unemployed guy living in the ghetto, If I had his particular set of genetics and same past, I would have ended up in the same spot.
This is why I no longer subscribe to bootstrap mentality. I just can't wrap my head around it. I think Ken-O had a good example with the ped0s and murderers. Obviously, they should be punished with the full extent of the law, but they were ultimately doomed from the start.
For example, I work out religiously and run 2 (about to start another) businesses. Both businesses producing more income than any of the previous years. I could pat myself on the back and stroke my ego about how awesome I am, or I can realize that if I was the unemployed guy living in the ghetto, If I had his particular set of genetics and same past, I would have ended up in the same spot.
This is why I no longer subscribe to bootstrap mentality. I just can't wrap my head around it. I think Ken-O had a good example with the ped0s and murderers. Obviously, they should be punished with the full extent of the law, but they were ultimately doomed from the start.
a.) Your businesses. Certainly they did not start off as immediate successes. They required input from you in the form of sacrifice -- whether that be time, money, or whichever. You had to act in order for them to materialize. That's free will.
b.) Your working out. You run daily/workout by your own admission. That's free will.
Neither of the above examples are subject to the pleasure/pain principle. You are sacrificing in the short term for the idea of a longterm gain -- a gain that may never come about. Your biology and station in life be damned -- you invested time and effort and you produced results. That's free will.
The p3d0 and the murderers subject themselves to the fleeting whims of their emotions/lack thereof. They operate as slaves to whatever moral skew they've convinced themselves of. They continue to act, despite knowing better. That's free will.
To me, the only illusion is that we are powerless and incapable of change. In a universe where change is seemingly the one constant, why would humans be any different?
None of the above constitutes legal advice nor should be interpreted as such.
12-28-2020, 12:31 PM
-
#68
- aleeboy
- It's over for you
-
- aleeboy
- It's over for you
- Join Date: Dec 2008
- Posts: 23,424
- Rep Power: 87439
-
-
Originally Posted By SultanofBling⏩
I read your long post and your subsequent. What a load of bollocks. You are looking at it too simplistically without considering what it is that actually drives choices. Most of the “choices” I have read ITT, including your’s, are pure cope. You are ****ing retarded and I regret reading that rubbish you pasted.I'll draw out weaknesses in your own reasoning:
a.) Your businesses. Certainly they did not start off as immediate successes. They required input from you in the form of sacrifice -- whether that be time, money, or whichever. You had to act in order for them to materialize. That's free will.
b.) Your working out. You run daily/workout by your own admission. That's free will.
Neither of the above examples are subject to the pleasure/pain principle. You are sacrificing in the short term for the idea of a longterm gain -- a gain that may never come about. Your biology and station in life be damned -- you invested time and effort and you produced results. That's free will.
The p3d0 and the murderers subject themselves to the fleeting whims of their emotions/lack thereof. They operate as slaves to whatever moral skew they've convinced themselves of. They continue to act, despite knowing better. That's free will.
To me, the only illusion is that we are powerless and incapable of change. In a universe where change is seemingly the one constant, why would humans be any different?
a.) Your businesses. Certainly they did not start off as immediate successes. They required input from you in the form of sacrifice -- whether that be time, money, or whichever. You had to act in order for them to materialize. That's free will.
b.) Your working out. You run daily/workout by your own admission. That's free will.
Neither of the above examples are subject to the pleasure/pain principle. You are sacrificing in the short term for the idea of a longterm gain -- a gain that may never come about. Your biology and station in life be damned -- you invested time and effort and you produced results. That's free will.
The p3d0 and the murderers subject themselves to the fleeting whims of their emotions/lack thereof. They operate as slaves to whatever moral skew they've convinced themselves of. They continue to act, despite knowing better. That's free will.
To me, the only illusion is that we are powerless and incapable of change. In a universe where change is seemingly the one constant, why would humans be any different?
It’s almost 2021 and there are still people relying on cope?
Get a life people.
Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."
Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
12-28-2020, 12:34 PM
-
#69
- PimpMasterC
- Banned
-
- PimpMasterC
- Banned
- Join Date: Apr 2013
- Location: Norway
- Age: 31
- Posts: 6,984
- Rep Power: 0
-
-
The answer to the free will question can be both yes and no, I guess, depending on how you define it. In truth, free will is not really real, because there is no entities that exist that can have free will. Who is there to have free will?
12-28-2020, 12:36 PM
-
#70
- SultanofBling
- Mean & Green
-
- SultanofBling
- Mean & Green
- Join Date: Aug 2020
- Posts: 6,968
- Rep Power: 17762
-
-
Originally Posted By aleeboy⏩
Lol oh youI read your long post and your subsequent. What a load of bollocks. You are looking at it too simplistically without considering what it is that actually drives choices. Most of the “choices” I have read ITT, including your’s, are pure cope. You are ****ing retarded and I regret reading that rubbish you pasted.
It’s almost 2021 and there are still people relying on cope?
Get a life people.
Cheers
It’s almost 2021 and there are still people relying on cope?
Get a life people.
Cheers
None of the above constitutes legal advice nor should be interpreted as such.
12-28-2020, 01:01 PM
-
#71
- knightofday
- Registered User
-
- knightofday
- Registered User
- Join Date: Oct 2013
- Location: California, United States
- Age: 39
- Posts: 14,588
- Rep Power: 126002
-
-
Originally Posted By MetroBrah⏩
This is what I believe. Everything happens for a reason, everything.Your reactions to those distractions are determined by your genetics and environmental influences.
To further expound, there are no distractions. Because where you end up is where you were always meant to be. From before you were even born.
To further expound, there are no distractions. Because where you end up is where you were always meant to be. From before you were even born.
12-28-2020, 01:08 PM
-
#72
- Muzzlrpress
- Join Date: Jan 2011
- Location: United States
- Posts: 104,332
- Rep Power: 993953
-
-
You were already going to rep me for this comment.
I'm back, bitches!
12-28-2020, 01:24 PM
-
#73
- propreffered7
- Registered User
-
- propreffered7
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2010
- Posts: 36,839
- Rep Power: 86393
-
-
Originally Posted By ralphlaurenbrah⏩
y'all need to read this. i'm sure almost none of you will, but honestly it's funny we can even contemplate or talk about this when we have no clue on A LOT of things. this is just even some basic azz chitWe are all biological robots. That is the truth. We are basically giant computers following our program to find the best mate, get a higher score by getting stuff for our ego and to attract better mates, and then reproduce. 99% of behavior can be explained by this easily and by observing the way addictive things affect the way people behave. But when you ask someone everyone has the feeling of a subjective sense of control. Once you start to just observe your mind and your behavior patterns you will learn a lot about who your mind and body are. The ancient wisdom has said forever that we are not our minds or our bodies, but rather a massive collective consciousness or “god” existing beyond both. If you take drugs you will feel this feeling. If not it will take many years of meditation to break free of your mind and ego which have spent every year of your life strengthening their grip on you. This is the only way to true happiness.
also, keep in mind. you can neatly confine a lot of things into a box. just because you can contain it inside that box does not make it true
it's like classical mechanics vs. the quantum world. you can accurately explain the classical mechanical world while not going into quantum and it makes sense. but that does NOT mean that's all that is going on
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...-consciousness
guess i'll quote cause it is a long read:
The neuroscientists Anne Churchland and Larry Abbott have also emphasised our difficulties in interpreting the massive amount of data that is being produced by laboratories all over the world: “Obtaining deep understanding from this onslaught will require, in addition to the skilful and creative application of experimental technologies, substantial advances in data analysis methods and intense application of theoretic concepts and models.”
There are indeed theoretical approaches to brain function, including to the most mysterious thing the human brain can do – produce consciousness. But none of these frameworks are widely accepted, for none has yet passed the decisive test of experimental investigation. It is possible that repeated calls for more theory may be a pious hope. It can be argued that there is no possible single theory of brain function, not even in a worm, because a brain is not a single thing. (Scientists even find it difficult to come up with a precise definition of what a brain is.)
or more than half a century, all those highly diverse panels of patchwork we have been working on have been framed by thinking that brain processes involve something like those carried out in a computer. But that does not mean this metaphor will continue to be useful in the future. At the very beginning of the digital age, in 1951, the pioneer neuroscientist Karl Lashley argued against the use of any machine-based metaphor
This dismissal of metaphor has recently been taken even further by the French neuroscientist Romain Brette, who has challenged the most fundamental metaphor of brain function: coding. Since its inception in the 1920s, the idea of a neural code has come to dominate neuroscientific thinking – more than 11,000 papers on the topic have been published in the past 10 years. Brette’s fundamental criticism was that, in thinking about “code”, researchers inadvertently drift from a technical sense, in which there is a link between a stimulus and the activity of the neuron, to a representational sense, according to which neuronal codes represent that stimulus.
The unstated implication in most descriptions of neural coding is that the activity of neural networks is presented to an ideal observer or reader within the brain, often described as “downstream structures” that have access to the optimal way to decode the signals. But the ways in which such structures actually process those signals is unknown, and is rarely explicitly hypothesised, even in simple models of neural network function
The unstated implication in most descriptions of neural coding is that the activity of neural networks is presented to an ideal observer or reader within the brain, often described as “downstream structures” that have access to the optimal way to decode the signals. But the ways in which such structures actually process those signals is unknown, and is rarely explicitly hypothesised, even in simple models of neural network function
The processing of neural codes is generally seen as a series of linear steps – like a line of dominoes falling one after another. The brain, however, consists of highly complex neural networks that are interconnected, and which are linked to the outside world to effect action. Focusing on sets of sensory and processing neurons without linking these networks to the behaviour of the animal misses the point of all that processing.
By viewing the brain as a computer that passively responds to inputs and processes data, we forget that it is an active organ, part of a body that is intervening in the world, and which has an evolutionary past that has shaped its structure and function. This view of the brain has been outlined by the Hungarian neuroscientist György Buzsáki in his recent book The Brain from Inside Out. According to Buzsáki, the brain is not simply passively absorbing stimuli and representing them through a neural code, but rather is actively searching through alternative possibilities to test various options. His conclusion – following scientists going back to the 19th century – is that the brain does not represent information: it constructs it.
By viewing the brain as a computer that passively responds to inputs and processes data, we forget that it is an active organ, part of a body that is intervening in the world, and which has an evolutionary past that has shaped its structure and function. This view of the brain has been outlined by the Hungarian neuroscientist György Buzsáki in his recent book The Brain from Inside Out. According to Buzsáki, the brain is not simply passively absorbing stimuli and representing them through a neural code, but rather is actively searching through alternative possibilities to test various options. His conclusion – following scientists going back to the 19th century – is that the brain does not represent information: it constructs it.
In 1981, the British psychologist Richard Gregory argued that the reliance on emergence as a way of explaining brain function indicated a problem with the theoretical framework: “The appearance of ‘emergence’ may well be a sign that a more general (or at least different) conceptual scheme is needed … It is the role of good theories to remove the appearance of emergence. (So explanations in terms of emergence are bogus.)”
This overlooks the fact that there are different kinds of emergence: weak and strong. Weak emergent features, such as the movement of a shoal of tiny fish in response to a shark, can be understood in terms of the rules that govern the behaviour of their component parts. In such cases, apparently mysterious group behaviours are based on the behaviour of individuals, each of which is responding to factors such as the movement of a neighbour, or external stimuli such as the approach of a predator.
This kind of weak emergence cannot explain the activity of even the simplest nervous systems, never mind the working of your brain, so we fall back on strong emergence, where the phenomenon that emerges cannot be explained by the activity of the individual components. You and the page you are reading this on are both made of atoms, but your ability to read and understand comes from features that emerge through atoms in your body forming higher-level structures, such as neurons and their patterns of firing – not simply from atoms interacting.
This overlooks the fact that there are different kinds of emergence: weak and strong. Weak emergent features, such as the movement of a shoal of tiny fish in response to a shark, can be understood in terms of the rules that govern the behaviour of their component parts. In such cases, apparently mysterious group behaviours are based on the behaviour of individuals, each of which is responding to factors such as the movement of a neighbour, or external stimuli such as the approach of a predator.
This kind of weak emergence cannot explain the activity of even the simplest nervous systems, never mind the working of your brain, so we fall back on strong emergence, where the phenomenon that emerges cannot be explained by the activity of the individual components. You and the page you are reading this on are both made of atoms, but your ability to read and understand comes from features that emerge through atoms in your body forming higher-level structures, such as neurons and their patterns of firing – not simply from atoms interacting.
Despite deploying this powerful analytical armoury, and despite the fact that there is a clear explanation for how the chip works (it has “ground truth”, in technospeak), the study failed to detect the hierarchy of information processing that occurs inside the chip. As Jonas and Kording put it, the techniques fell short of producing “a meaningful understanding”. Their conclusion was bleak: “Ultimately, the problem is not that neuroscientists could not understand a microprocessor, the problem is that they would not understand it given the approaches they are currently taking.”
This sobering outcome suggests that, despite the attractiveness of the computer metaphor and the fact that brains do indeed process information and somehow represent the external world, we still need to make significant theoretical breakthroughs in order to make progress
This sobering outcome suggests that, despite the attractiveness of the computer metaphor and the fact that brains do indeed process information and somehow represent the external world, we still need to make significant theoretical breakthroughs in order to make progress
This is the great problem we have to solve. On the one hand, brains are made of neurons and other cells, which interact together in networks, the activity of which is influenced not only by synaptic activity, but also by various factors such as neuromodulators. On the other hand, it is clear that brain function involves complex dynamic patterns of neuronal activity at a population level. Finding the link between these two levels of analysis will be a challenge for much of the rest of the century, I suspect
12-28-2020, 01:32 PM
-
#74
- roughinhouse
- Registered User
-
- roughinhouse
- Registered User
- Join Date: Jun 2020
- Age: 56
- Posts: 4,237
- Rep Power: 11089
-
-
Yes I have the exact same view as you op. Your life is 100% luck and completely decided by factors uncontrollable.
12-28-2020, 01:37 PM
-
#75
I don't believe in destiny. I believe we have control over our lives in most respects. I know the dumb choices I made and I know why I made them and I know why they are wrong now. If I had certain experiences at an earlier age, I would not have made those same decisions.
Where we are at today, is a product of everyone being where THEY are at today. Its all encompassing. 100x, things would turn out the same, if it did for everybody else. But say my best friend died in child hood if I had a round 2. It would definitely shape me differently and I doubt I would be exactly where I am today.
Thats just an easy/straightforward example. That said, I do believe we are where we are "supposed" to be in this lifetime. And I believe in synchronicity and I feel like the more in tune you are to that, and the more often you experience it, the more often you are reminded of this fact.
TFW I am also not religious or spiritual.
Where we are at today, is a product of everyone being where THEY are at today. Its all encompassing. 100x, things would turn out the same, if it did for everybody else. But say my best friend died in child hood if I had a round 2. It would definitely shape me differently and I doubt I would be exactly where I am today.
Thats just an easy/straightforward example. That said, I do believe we are where we are "supposed" to be in this lifetime. And I believe in synchronicity and I feel like the more in tune you are to that, and the more often you experience it, the more often you are reminded of this fact.
TFW I am also not religious or spiritual.
Proof Angels exist: OzleyASMR
“Listen to your friend Billy Zane. He's a cool dude. He's trying to help you out.”
12-28-2020, 01:38 PM
-
#76
- BraneyGumble
- Registered User
-
- BraneyGumble
- Registered User
- Join Date: May 2013
- Age: 41
- Posts: 25,426
- Rep Power: 248871
-
-
You had a choice not to make this original thread.
Yet you did.
Yet you did.
12-28-2020, 01:45 PM
-
#77
I'm not sure I believe that one's path through life is completely preordained, but I do think that the amount of control that the individual has over his life is fairly limited. As many have said in this thread, under the right conditions anyone can be a murderer, for example.
I recommend it all the time butThe Vietnam Wardocumentary by Ken Burns features interviews with a lot of former American GIs who fought in the war and they offer some very real and gritty insights into human nature in wartime. These were, for the most part, normal American kids who came from working class and middle class backgrounds, raised with all the traditional American values. Yet many of them still committed horrible war crimes. One of the factors that is repeatedly cited as a cause for this type of behavior is leadership that either encourages it or looks the other way. I think that's a good example of how a seemingly decent person's behavior can be corrupted by one's environment. It's hard to believe that there were entire platoons comprised of psychopaths and rapists, IMO, so the environment fostered by certain NCOs and officers is the likely culprit.
Another example would be the number of serial killers who come from extremely dysfunctional backgrounds. I'm not super into true crime and that but from what I do know, the famous ones like Kemper, Richard Ramirez (Nightstalker), and Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook shooter) all had fukked up upbringings and/or serious mental illnesses. Like you say, having a person who is maybe prone to violence or is generally uninhibited, which would constitute their nature, can easily become dangerous and volatile if they are influenced by the wrong people (nurture). Ramirez, for example, was shown what were essentially pornographic snuff films by his influential older cousin who was a hardened Vietnam veteran. In addition to that, the same cousin taught him how to sneak around and spy on people, which helped Ramirez become a Peeping Tom. You could argue this was the start of his descent into becoming a murderer. Had he grown up in a normal and supportive environment, it's likely he never would have become the monster that he did.
Basically, I believe that we are born to an initial set of conditions that shape, orient, and somewhat limit our potential down the line. From there, as we go through the world we are further shaped by chance events that we often have zero control over. The combination of these two, along with our biological dispositions, determines how our lives unfold.
Tiger Woods would never be where he is today if his dad didn't start him in golf at 2. Gretzky wasn't just magically the greatest hockey player because he "worked hard". His dad was a semi-pro player who got him on skates at like two and built a rink in the backyard every year. Neither willed those conditions into existence, but both benefited from them tremendously.
I recommend it all the time butThe Vietnam Wardocumentary by Ken Burns features interviews with a lot of former American GIs who fought in the war and they offer some very real and gritty insights into human nature in wartime. These were, for the most part, normal American kids who came from working class and middle class backgrounds, raised with all the traditional American values. Yet many of them still committed horrible war crimes. One of the factors that is repeatedly cited as a cause for this type of behavior is leadership that either encourages it or looks the other way. I think that's a good example of how a seemingly decent person's behavior can be corrupted by one's environment. It's hard to believe that there were entire platoons comprised of psychopaths and rapists, IMO, so the environment fostered by certain NCOs and officers is the likely culprit.
Another example would be the number of serial killers who come from extremely dysfunctional backgrounds. I'm not super into true crime and that but from what I do know, the famous ones like Kemper, Richard Ramirez (Nightstalker), and Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook shooter) all had fukked up upbringings and/or serious mental illnesses. Like you say, having a person who is maybe prone to violence or is generally uninhibited, which would constitute their nature, can easily become dangerous and volatile if they are influenced by the wrong people (nurture). Ramirez, for example, was shown what were essentially pornographic snuff films by his influential older cousin who was a hardened Vietnam veteran. In addition to that, the same cousin taught him how to sneak around and spy on people, which helped Ramirez become a Peeping Tom. You could argue this was the start of his descent into becoming a murderer. Had he grown up in a normal and supportive environment, it's likely he never would have become the monster that he did.
Basically, I believe that we are born to an initial set of conditions that shape, orient, and somewhat limit our potential down the line. From there, as we go through the world we are further shaped by chance events that we often have zero control over. The combination of these two, along with our biological dispositions, determines how our lives unfold.
Tiger Woods would never be where he is today if his dad didn't start him in golf at 2. Gretzky wasn't just magically the greatest hockey player because he "worked hard". His dad was a semi-pro player who got him on skates at like two and built a rink in the backyard every year. Neither willed those conditions into existence, but both benefited from them tremendously.
12-28-2020, 01:47 PM
-
#78
- Seamanbeast
- Registered User
-
- Seamanbeast
- Registered User
- Join Date: Sep 2020
- Age: 56
- Posts: 1,441
- Rep Power: 1818
-
-
I think therefore I am. Most people don't know the philosophy required to understand the different types of determinism, as is obvious by many posts in this thread. Obviously humans do not have the ability to "know" everything at a level to which hard determinism could be proven scientifically. Ie; we create a simulated world down to the atoms that is similar to our own and record every piece of information and then do experimentation to see if something greater is occurring to create true randomness, but even then it would most likely be that whatever was creating the appearance of randomness is a product of a lack of our knowledge in studying the system. The most likely scenario, from what we do know, is that everything eventually, with enough intelligence and technology can be categorized and counted, even with quantum states. So therefore, given infinite knowledge and infinite power you could predict to the exact atom and even smaller, everything that will ever occur in this universe, or going backwards everything that has occurred.. .
12-28-2020, 01:49 PM
-
#79
Didn’t read the whole thing but man, your choices make you what you are tomorrow.
I do know people from poor families rolling in $$$$ and crap loads of assets
Know of a kid from a wealthy family, his dad disowned him cuz he got into drugs and wouldn’t give up. Chit poor drug infested life he’s living last I heard about him.
Choices
Not everything you gonna do will be a success. Embrace your success and try and repeat what you did there. If you fall down after a mkstake, get back up and learn from it and never repeat that mistake again.
I do know people from poor families rolling in $$$$ and crap loads of assets
Know of a kid from a wealthy family, his dad disowned him cuz he got into drugs and wouldn’t give up. Chit poor drug infested life he’s living last I heard about him.
Choices
Not everything you gonna do will be a success. Embrace your success and try and repeat what you did there. If you fall down after a mkstake, get back up and learn from it and never repeat that mistake again.
**^^ gone ^^**
12-28-2020, 01:56 PM
-
#80
- FailedPotential
- Registered User
-
- FailedPotential
- Registered User
- Join Date: Oct 2014
- Posts: 14,376
- Rep Power: 59586
-
-
If you believe in cause and effect, and there's no reason not to... then all of our lives and all our end points were always going to play out in exactly the same way from the moment of the big bang
You can't live life with this outlook on life though, you MUST act as if the future is not determined already. What I mean by this is, if someone were a fighter for example, and they had a "whatever will be will be" outlook, then into their life and training would seep an "whatever will be will be" attitude and it would negatively effect them and their goals in life. Someone with a "I create my own destiny" outlook on life will tend to act in a more positive manner. You see this playout with people that hold each outlook.
When I came to the conclusion a while back, I swear it hit me hard, made me have a what's the point attitude, etc. I'd think "oh if I get motivated, then that was always gonna happen... if I don't do X, it was always gonna happen... nothing I can do will change what was always going to be... nothing"
It's a parasite on your mind, you absolutely MUST act as if the future is yet to be written. It's just the optimal way to live/belief system to have, even if deep down you believe/know otherwise.
Also there's other possibilities we don't account for, we don't have a full picture on things.
Cliffs: Don't tell your kids they don't have free will
You can't live life with this outlook on life though, you MUST act as if the future is not determined already. What I mean by this is, if someone were a fighter for example, and they had a "whatever will be will be" outlook, then into their life and training would seep an "whatever will be will be" attitude and it would negatively effect them and their goals in life. Someone with a "I create my own destiny" outlook on life will tend to act in a more positive manner. You see this playout with people that hold each outlook.
When I came to the conclusion a while back, I swear it hit me hard, made me have a what's the point attitude, etc. I'd think "oh if I get motivated, then that was always gonna happen... if I don't do X, it was always gonna happen... nothing I can do will change what was always going to be... nothing"
It's a parasite on your mind, you absolutely MUST act as if the future is yet to be written. It's just the optimal way to live/belief system to have, even if deep down you believe/know otherwise.
Also there's other possibilities we don't account for, we don't have a full picture on things.
Cliffs: Don't tell your kids they don't have free will
Fak U say? Cheeky kent ya, i'll fakin fak ya, ya lil sloot
12-28-2020, 02:02 PM
-
#81
- propreffered7
- Registered User
-
- propreffered7
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2010
- Posts: 36,839
- Rep Power: 86393
-
-
Originally Posted By TryingBB⏩
i really feel like people that play sports are less prone to believe in this preordained chitDidn’t read the whole thing but man, your choices make you what you are tomorrow.
I do know people from poor families rolling in $$$$ and crap loads of assets
Know of a kid from a wealthy family, his dad disowned him cuz he got into drugs and wouldn’t give up. Chit poor drug infested life he’s living last I heard about him.
Choices
Not everything you gonna do will be a success. Embrace your success and try and repeat what you did there. If you fall down after a mkstake, get back up and learn from it and never repeat that mistake again.
I do know people from poor families rolling in $$$$ and crap loads of assets
Know of a kid from a wealthy family, his dad disowned him cuz he got into drugs and wouldn’t give up. Chit poor drug infested life he’s living last I heard about him.
Choices
Not everything you gonna do will be a success. Embrace your success and try and repeat what you did there. If you fall down after a mkstake, get back up and learn from it and never repeat that mistake again.
cause you start out in tball sucky, you train and improve. move on to other levels. depending on how much time and effort you put in can determine success.. there is a genetic and innate ability component but again... i find it unlikely a pro athlete would want to attribute it solely to "genetics". which is interesting
he would want to believe the work he put in and stuff like that more made who he is
12-28-2020, 02:09 PM
-
#82
- Ken-O
- Usuario registrado
-
- Ken-O
- Usuario registrado
- Join Date: Sep 2008
- Location: Chihuahua, Mexico
- Posts: 41,198
- Rep Power: 243727
-
-
Originally Posted By NextPound⏩
So discussing life and the universe at a deep level is just for trying to sound smart? Basically if you think beyond the superficial subjects of life, you are a pretentious douchebag?Shocker that all of the hubristic posters are spinning wheels trying to sound edgy and smart. LOL when will they learn?
You sound insecure brah
Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
You were always going to be on spreadYou were already going to rep me for this comment.
Originally Posted By BraneyGumble⏩
On a surface level, you could say i had a choice.You had a choice not to make this original thread.
Yet you did.
Yet you did.
In reality though, i dont think i did. My genetics and every single thing in life that i experienced led me to this path. Had i encountered a monk or something a week ago, i would have made this thread a week ago.
But there are no IFs.
Originally Posted By Seamanbeast⏩
Yeah, exactly. There's no IFs, no alternate realities, no number of infinite posibilities. There's only one.I think therefore I am. Most people don't know the philosophy required to understand the different types of determinism, as is obvious by many posts in this thread. Obviously humans do not have the ability to "know" everything at a level to which hard determinism could be proven scientifically. Ie; we create a simulated world down to the atoms that is similar to our own and record every piece of information and then do experimentation to see if something greater is occurring to create true randomness, but even then it would most likely be that whatever was creating the appearance of randomness is a product of a lack of our knowledge in studying the system. The most likely scenario, from what we do know, is that everything eventually, with enough intelligence and technology can be categorized and counted, even with quantum states.So therefore, given infinite knowledge and infinite power you could predict to the exact atom and even smaller, everything that will ever occur in this universe, or going backwards everything that has occurred.. .
There is no time either, there is only now. Time is just a man made concept to understand movement and the transfer of energy.
Man i feel like im pitching out of my league now lol. Such an interesting topic.
"The flowers bloom, then wither... The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
12-28-2020, 02:11 PM
-
#83
- Ken-O
- Usuario registrado
-
- Ken-O
- Usuario registrado
- Join Date: Sep 2008
- Location: Chihuahua, Mexico
- Posts: 41,198
- Rep Power: 243727
-
-
Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
What people believe is irrelevant though. Try telling Cristiano Ronaldo that he's not better than Wincel and he will lose his **** and call you a dumbass.i really feel like people that play sports are less prone to believe in this preordained chit
cause you start out in tball sucky, you train and improve. move on to other levels. depending on how much time and effort you put in can determine success.. there is a genetic and innate ability component but again... i find it unlikely a pro athlete would want to attribute it solely to "genetics". which is interesting
he would want to believe the work he put in and stuff like that more made who he is
cause you start out in tball sucky, you train and improve. move on to other levels. depending on how much time and effort you put in can determine success.. there is a genetic and innate ability component but again... i find it unlikely a pro athlete would want to attribute it solely to "genetics". which is interesting
he would want to believe the work he put in and stuff like that more made who he is
However Wincel didnt make a conscious choice before being born about living the life he did, nor Cristiano chose his life either. They were born under the exact circumstances needed for them to live their life they lived.
"The flowers bloom, then wither... The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
12-28-2020, 02:14 PM
-
#84
- demfeelsbro
- Jelqbrah
-
- demfeelsbro
- Jelqbrah
- Join Date: Mar 2014
- Posts: 15,441
- Rep Power: 127013
-
-
you *******s watch the series DEVS?
Looks at determinism and multi verse theories. Would recommend
Looks at determinism and multi verse theories. Would recommend
12-28-2020, 02:14 PM
-
#85
12-28-2020, 02:18 PM
-
#86
- Yoopwat
- Registered User
-
- Yoopwat
- Registered User
- Join Date: Nov 2011
- Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 40
- Posts: 9,230
- Rep Power: 16588
-
-
Literally about as pointless a thought process as this whole “life is a simulation” argument, its so vague and due to that completely impossible to define or prove. For every single thing that happens anywhere you can just label it as “fate” if you want, it doesn’t mean it has any intellectual content. And that’s not to say I agree or disagree.
12-28-2020, 02:19 PM
-
#87
Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
I already gave the example above, but succeeding sports is also not solely up to the effort an individual dedicates to practice. Take a look at my example on Gretzky and read about his upbringing. He was known for being able to 'see where the puck was going' and play to that, as opposed to chasing the puck like most others. He developed these instincts in part because his semi-pro dad had him doing really advanced drills when he was young. Unsurprisingly, he was way ahead of his peers.i really feel like people that play sports are less prone to believe in this preordained chit
cause you start out in tball sucky, you train and improve. move on to other levels. depending on how much time and effort you put in can determine success.. there is a genetic and innate ability component but again... i find it unlikely a pro athlete would want to attribute it solely to "genetics". which is interesting
he would want to believe the work he put in and stuff like that more made who he is
cause you start out in tball sucky, you train and improve. move on to other levels. depending on how much time and effort you put in can determine success.. there is a genetic and innate ability component but again... i find it unlikely a pro athlete would want to attribute it solely to "genetics". which is interesting
he would want to believe the work he put in and stuff like that more made who he is
From Wiki:
The elder Gretzky devised numerous creative ways to develop hockey skills. Walter's drills were his own invention, but were ahead of their time in Canada. Gretzky would later remark that the Soviet National Team's practice drills, which impressed Canada in 1972, had nothing to offer him: "I'd been doing those drills since I was three. My Dad was very smart."
None of this is to say he didn't work hard and put in the hours himself, but he likely wouldn't have been the GOAT if his dad never played hockey, or didn't encourage it, or even prevented his son from playing. That's where the argument for will and effort fails. Your will and effort only allow you to maximize whatever initial conditions you are born into.
12-28-2020, 02:21 PM
-
#88
- Ken-O
- Usuario registrado
-
- Ken-O
- Usuario registrado
- Join Date: Sep 2008
- Location: Chihuahua, Mexico
- Posts: 41,198
- Rep Power: 243727
-
-
Originally Posted By CougarP01⏩
Dont think thats what the blackpill stands for.Not sure how you can have a blackpilled frame of mind for 98% of the world's offerings, but leave open love and affection, which science tries to prove to be chemical reactions.
Just seems inconsistent
Just seems inconsistent
And its not inconsistent. Maybe chemical reactions, like every single thing on this earth. Doesnt matter, its still fun, its still enjoyable. Feeling your emotions is what keeps us human.
Being madly in love, being heartbroken, those are two sides of the same coin, you cant have one without the other. To me thats what makes life worth living.
"The flowers bloom, then wither... The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
12-28-2020, 02:23 PM
-
#89
- Ken-O
- Usuario registrado
-
- Ken-O
- Usuario registrado
- Join Date: Sep 2008
- Location: Chihuahua, Mexico
- Posts: 41,198
- Rep Power: 243727
-
-
Originally Posted By Yoopwat⏩
Yeah, its completely pointless, which just reinforces what it stands for. Everything is pointless.Literally about as pointless a thought process as this whole “life is a simulation” argument
Originally Posted By LordBroly⏩
Or maybe if he got introduced to baseball first, or tennis, he would have been a GOAT at those sports instead. Fun to think aboutI already gave the example above, but succeeding sports is also not solely up to the effort an individual dedicates to practice. Take a look at my example on Gretzky and read about his upbringing. He was known for being able to 'see where the puck was going' and play to that, as opposed to chasing the puck like most others. He developed these instincts in part because his semi-pro dad had him doing really advanced drills when he was young. Unsurprisingly, he was way ahead of his peers.
From Wiki:
None of this is to say he didn't work hard and put in the hours himself, but he likely wouldn't have been the GOAT if his dad never played hockey, or didn't encourage it, or even prevented his son from playing. That's where the argument for will and effort fails. Your will and effort only allow you to maximize whatever initial conditions you are born into.
From Wiki:
None of this is to say he didn't work hard and put in the hours himself, but he likely wouldn't have been the GOAT if his dad never played hockey, or didn't encourage it, or even prevented his son from playing. That's where the argument for will and effort fails. Your will and effort only allow you to maximize whatever initial conditions you are born into.
"The flowers bloom, then wither... The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
12-28-2020, 02:25 PM
-
#90
Bookmarks
-
- Digg
-
- del.icio.us
-
- StumbleUpon
-
-
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts