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Forum » The USA Government spends more on healthcare than the UK, per capita and % of GDP
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Thread: The USA Government spends more on healthcare than the UK, per capita and % of GDP

post 1632235043 02-24-2021, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted By JoshSP1985⏩
Medicare for all would mean people that currently get great care get worse service and those who get poor care get better service.
So how do we strike the line?

Trust me, I am not wanna be a greedy doctor with some eugenic mindset but no politician discusses this in the way as to beat around the bush and avoid anything but a nice catch-all populism as much as possible.

NHS was created by a liberal (Labour Party) gov but the idea of free healthcare in the UK and Germany trace its origins back to the 17-18th century. Doctors would get wealthy of treating aristocracy and then using the time to open clinics to treat peasants because of strong Christianity which was supported and even imposed by the Monarchy.
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post 1632235063 02-24-2021, 10:05 AM
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We spend more on our healthcare because we have more to spend. You poor folks wouldn't understand because you are too busy trying to pay your rent LOL.
post 1632235433 02-24-2021, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted By IPoopStandingUp⏩
We spend more on our healthcare because we have more to spend. You poor folks wouldn't understand because you are too busy trying to pay your rent LOL.
You pay $300 for insulin bottles just because you can?
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post 1632235503 02-24-2021, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted By WoofieNugget⏩
We pay taxes in order to have free health care, typically an average of about 20%. I pay less because I make less money so I probably pay about 1k a year towards health care, which I'm happy to do if I ever need it. US people pay a ton more than that, even a previous poster stated he pays $1000 a MONTH for a family of four, which is serious money.

The nice thing about having the US close by is if I ever want something faster, I just go across the border and pay out of pocket. It's true that they have much better care when you're paying for it, but I'd still much rather have peace of mind that I can get intensive treatments and never risk being handed a five figure hospital bill.

The simple fact that medical bankruptcy is so massive in the US should be a sign. Nobody is profiting except insurance companies.
Assuming you're a Canada brah. Say a family earns about 120K so maybe around 25% of that gets taxed. So it's about $6000 a year you are paying for health care for your family. It's kinda hard to tell though and I think this might even be a conservative estimate. But it might not include a bunch of other stuff that a private American insurance plan may typically have and of course you still have the drawbacks of a system where you still have to wait for elective surgeries, MRIs, etc.

I guess you would get more peace of mind this way as unexpected chit can and does happen. At the same time though most young people who are just starting off in their careers probably use these health services the least. Meanwhile boomers who have likely already accumulated, or have had the opportunity to accumulate alot of wealth are the ones that would present the biggest burden on the system.

Whether public or private or both, a system that is affordable to the most amount of people that still provides high quality care, obviously there are tradeoffs and what that point is I don't know. And ideally some incentive in there that promotes health (not sure what that would be). Too many obese fat phucks in this day and age. Not only are they less productive but they comprise of about 15% of medical expenditures. I think when the Canadian health system was established, it didn't factor in that half of us would become obese pieces of chit
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post 1632236243 02-24-2021, 10:22 AM
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In fine with having public healthcare just as long as abortion and tranny stuff isn’t covered under it.
post 1632236523 02-24-2021, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted By MuscleXtreme⏩
In fine with having public healthcare just as long as abortion and tranny stuff isn’t covered under it.
Bro we're in clown world now guaranteed that stuff would be covered
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post 1632236863 02-24-2021, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted By JoshSP1985⏩
Bro we're in clown world now guaranteed that stuff would be covered
Not only would it be covered, but there would be a form for people to contribute more for those specific services, and if you don’t contribute, you’ll be labeled as a misogynistic transphobic pan-sexual white supremacist and have to report to the nearest re-education camp.
post 1632236993 02-24-2021, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted By MuscleXtreme⏩
Not only would it be covered, but there would be a form for people to contribute more for those specific services, and if you don’t contribute, you’ll be labeled as a misogynistic transphobic pan-sexual white supremacist and have to report to the nearest re-education camp.
and people who make 50k usd, wife is housewiving and they have 5 kids, net loss to healthcare
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post 1632285123 02-24-2021, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Vexidi⏩
I feel like people who enthusiastically defend our system haven't been fuked or seen someone else fuked by it yet. I have physician friends who even agree its out of control and unsustainable in its current state. They get fuked by insurance companies just as much as we do.
^^^
This.
Originally Posted By sooby⏩
Assuming you're a Canada brah. Say a family earns about 120K so maybe around 25% of that gets taxed. So it's about $6000 a year you are paying for health care for your family.It's kinda hard to tell though and I think this might even be a conservative estimate. But it might not include a bunch of other stuff that a private American insurance plan may typically have and of course you still have the drawbacks of a system where you still have to wait for elective surgeries, MRIs, etc.
No.

Not sure why this still isn't sinking in for some people.



In Canada(e.g.) for a family of fourthe government is spending (and therefore presumably collecting as taxes) $3,466 per person, or $13,864 per year on public healthcare. In Canadaevery citizencan access this publicly funded healthcare.

In the USfor a family of fourthe government is spending (and therefore presumably collecting as taxes) $4,933 per person, or $19,732 per year on public healthcare.But in the US only a limited pool of citizens can access this publicly funded healthcare.

The USalso has an average per capita of $4,092 in private spending (private insurance) + $1122 per capita in out of pocket spending (deductibles, co-pays, expenses otherwise not covered) soour theoretical family of four could be paying$19,732 in taxes to fund healthcare for other people, $16,368 in private insurance (employer + employee contributions), and $4,488 OOP (deductibles, co-pays, etc.) fora total of $40,588 per year.

Of course it doesn't look exactly like that as family makeup varies, children are usually less expensive to insure, and most people don't consider what their employer pays astheirexpense. Beyond that- geographical areas, age/overall health, etc.

Meanwhile the same family of four in Canadaw/tax funded healthcare, private healthcare (completely option there), and OOPmight be at $19,896 per year.
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post 1632285483 02-24-2021, 09:05 PM
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Huh. Meanwhile I'm over here with ! $19/month health plan, getting to tax shelter $7,200 a year in my HSA, and spent only $3,500 out of pocket for my child's birth and first year of appointments at one of the top hospitals in the world.

Thanks for letting me know how much better off I'd be paying another 10% of my income in taxes while getting the same standard of care those who pay nothing receive. I never would have known.

Last time I personally needed health care I tore my MCL at about 2am. Was in the orthopedic center being seen at 9am, getting MRIs at about 10:30, then setting up my physical therapy appointment and picking up my temporary brace and crutches all before noon. I paid a $20 copay and had a $90/month premium. How much better would my health care experience been over there?

Also worth noting, my employer gave me paid leave for 2 weeks to recover, and I work a desk job.

I don't want to access subpar public health systems. I work hard for top quality affordable care. If you want it, you can too.
post 1632334303 02-25-2021, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted By soaponarope1⏩
Huh. Meanwhile I'm over here with ! $19/month health plan, getting to tax shelter $7,200 a year in my HSA, and spent only $3,500 out of pocket for my child's birth and first year of appointments at one of the top hospitals in the world.

Thanks for letting me know how much better off I'd be paying another 10% of my income in taxes while getting the same standard of care those who pay nothing receive. I never would have known.

Last time I personally needed health care I tore my MCL at about 2am. Was in the orthopedic center being seen at 9am, getting MRIs at about 10:30, then setting up my physical therapy appointment and picking up my temporary brace and crutches all before noon. I paid a $20 copay and had a $90/month premium. How much better would my health care experience been over there?

Also worth noting, my employer gave me paid leave for 2 weeks to recover, and I work a desk job.

I don't want to access subpar public health systems. I work hard for top quality affordable care. If you want it, you can too.
this.

medicare for all benefits the lazy and no one else. buh buh you get to keep your private insurance... except for this being blatantly false because millions of Americans lost their private coverage with Obamacare because their plans became illegal.
post 1632334773 02-25-2021, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted By JoshSP1985⏩
Medicare for all would mean people that currently get great care get worse service and those who get poor care get better service.
can't even fathom the chit show that medicare for all would be... the VA is a great microcosm of what's in store and they deal with less than 1% of the population. Probably more like a quarter of a percent because lots of veterans don't deal with the VA. Those that do will tell you nothing good.
post 1632334943 02-25-2021, 12:42 PM
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Mirin?


post 1632335003 02-25-2021, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
^^^
This.



No.

Not sure why this still isn't sinking in for some people.



In Canada(e.g.) for a family of fourthe government is spending (and therefore presumably collecting as taxes) $3,466 per person, or $13,864 per year on public healthcare. In Canadaevery citizencan access this publicly funded healthcare.

In the USfor a family of fourthe government is spending (and therefore presumably collecting as taxes) $4,933 per person, or $19,732 per year on public healthcare.But in the US only a limited pool of citizens can access this publicly funded healthcare.

The USalso has an average per capita of $4,092 in private spending (private insurance) + $1122 per capita in out of pocket spending (deductibles, co-pays, expenses otherwise not covered) soour theoretical family of four could be paying$19,732 in taxes to fund healthcare for other people, $16,368 in private insurance (employer + employee contributions), and $4,488 OOP (deductibles, co-pays, etc.) fora total of $40,588 per year.

Of course it doesn't look exactly like that as family makeup varies, children are usually less expensive to insure, and most people don't consider what their employer pays astheirexpense. Beyond that- geographical areas, age/overall health, etc.

Meanwhile the same family of four in Canadaw/tax funded healthcare, private healthcare (completely option there), and OOPmight be at $19,896 per year.
Where are you getting your figures?
post 1632335593 02-25-2021, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
^^^
This.



No.

Not sure why this still isn't sinking in for some people.



In Canada(e.g.) for a family of fourthe government is spending (and therefore presumably collecting as taxes) $3,466 per person, or $13,864 per year on public healthcare. In Canadaevery citizencan access this publicly funded healthcare.

In the USfor a family of fourthe government is spending (and therefore presumably collecting as taxes) $4,933 per person, or $19,732 per year on public healthcare.But in the US only a limited pool of citizens can access this publicly funded healthcare.

The USalso has an average per capita of $4,092 in private spending (private insurance) + $1122 per capita in out of pocket spending (deductibles, co-pays, expenses otherwise not covered) soour theoretical family of four could be paying$19,732 in taxes to fund healthcare for other people, $16,368 in private insurance (employer + employee contributions), and $4,488 OOP (deductibles, co-pays, etc.) fora total of $40,588 per year.

Of course it doesn't look exactly like that as family makeup varies, children are usually less expensive to insure, and most people don't consider what their employer pays astheirexpense. Beyond that- geographical areas, age/overall health, etc.

Meanwhile the same family of four in Canadaw/tax funded healthcare, private healthcare (completely option there), and OOPmight be at $19,896 per year.
????

i just piggy-backed off the numbers the poster i quoted.
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post 1632335943 02-25-2021, 12:53 PM
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ITT: We still have people who would rather spend twice as much money for healthcare (mainly going to corporate profits + extra layers of bureaucracy) than spend half what we spend now to get the care that Canada has.

Or even shoot for something in the middle...give everyone who is willing to accept it the option to just deal with public healthcare (about 60% of us earn $50K or less per year) and then the people who want to can go private.



We spent $4,993 per capita (100% of the population) for programs that provide care to about 20% of the population. Meanwhile 80% receive no benefits from those programs and either have to pay for their own medical expenseson top of what they pay in taxes for healthcare for that 20%or go without.

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post 1632336093 02-25-2021, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
ITT: We still have people who would rather spend twice as much money for healthcare (mainly going to corporate profits + extra layers of bureaucracy) than spend half what we spend now to get the care that Canada has.

Or even shoot for something in the middle...give everyone who is willing to accept it the option to just deal with public healthcare (about 60% of us earn $50K or less per year) and then the people who want to can go private.



We spent $4,993 per capita (100% of the population) for programs that provide care to about 20% of the population. Meanwhile 80% receive no benefits from those programs and either have to pay for their own medical expenseson top of what they pay in taxes for healthcare for that 20%or go without.

shut up you commie betch and go get a job, how that does sound? Poor pathetic democrats think government intervention is the solution for everything.
post 1632336203 02-25-2021, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted By DeputyDong5⏩
can't even fathom the chit show that medicare for all would be... the VA is a great microcosm of what's in store and they deal with less than 1% of the population. Probably more like a quarter of a percent because lots of veterans don't deal with the VA. Those that do will tell you nothing good.
The VA system isgovernment run healthcare

A single payer systemis not government run healthcare.
Is single payer government run healthcare?
In a socialized medicine system, the government not only pays for health care but operates the hospitals and employs the medical staff. A country can adopt a single-payer approach (ie, the government pays for medical care) without a socialized medicine approach.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/diffe...system-1738546
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post 1632336483 02-25-2021, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted By soaponarope1⏩
Huh. Meanwhile I'm over here with ! $19/month health plan, getting to tax shelter $7,200 a year in my HSA, and spent only $3,500 out of pocket for my child's birth and first year of appointments at one of the top hospitals in the world.

Thanks for letting me know how much better off I'd be paying another 10% of my income in taxes while getting the same standard of care those who pay nothing receive. I never would have known.

Last time I personally needed health care I tore my MCL at about 2am. Was in the orthopedic center being seen at 9am, getting MRIs at about 10:30, then setting up my physical therapy appointment and picking up my temporary brace and crutches all before noon. I paid a $20 copay and had a $90/month premium. How much better would my health care experience been over there?

Also worth noting, my employer gave me paid leave for 2 weeks to recover, and I work a desk job.

I don't want to access subpar public health systems. I work hard for top quality affordable care. If you want it, you can too.
it is fine dude, here in the UK they take their doctors for granted, allow muzzies to have 10 kids and get schooling and healthcare for free not recognising the burden and have a fetish for bureaucracy as useless gov drones will not have jobs as they need to improve

you would expect this from left-leaning americans

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post 1632336763 02-25-2021, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted By DeputyDong5⏩
shut up you commie betch and go get a job, how that does sound? Poor pathetic democrats think government intervention is the solution for everything.
Nope.

It just isn't that simple. Our government has been corrupted and largely turned against us.

However government isn't a static thing, it CAN change IF forced to change.

"Our" government put in place things like not allowing Medicare to negotiate for lower drug prices, even though other large purchasers are free to do so.

Why would the do that?

Because the game is rigged to benefit the big corporations.

Also because there has been a lot of make believe going on where we pretend to have a real economy, but a lot of time, money, and effort are just wasted. Partially because our fiat currency is super inflated.

And, yes, I know the US dollar is mostly backstopped by the US military. However things like cyber attacks and drones are eroding US military supremacy.
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post 1632337083 02-25-2021, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted By Sandmang27⏩
As cocky as Americans are I always laugh when other countries make fun of them, especially European countries.

You realize they subsidize your countries so you can afford all your socialist policies right?

And I don't mean by direct investment.

The main way they subsidize countries is with their military. They obviously benefit from it too but the rest of the world who are allies highly underestimate how beneficial the US military is.

Imagine how Fcuked Europe, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E, Israel and many other countries would be if the US said screw you guys, defend yourselves.

Russia, China, Iran, etc. would have a field day.

How much money do you think it would take the EU to build an army that could take on the Russians?

And where do you think that money would come from?

With healthcare the US has by far the largest number of medical breakthroughs due to their system. Is it perfect? No. But the rest of the world benefits from it and is therefore subsidized by it. The U.S. should really start charging other countries to use their medical breakthroughs and back-date payments.

The only way socialism works is by being subsidized by capitalist nations.
lol

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Somewhere in the bowels of deepest hell, Satan is assessing the potential of this shyte as the permanent soundtrack to an eternity of being hosed down with Bernard Manning's diarrhea.
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