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Forum » Why do people say social mobility is bad in the USA and Canada due to cost of living?
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Thread: Why do people say social mobility is bad in the USA and Canada due to cost of living?

post 1633099203 03-06-2021, 12:57 PM
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Why do people say social mobility is bad in the USA and Canada due to cost of living?

I am either missing something or people do not understand basic stats and math.

Rent is high in NYC, Vancouver etc but the people who should be there work in jobs that are tied to there and pay enough to have a good lifestyle.

If you do not fit into those it is more than likely you can move anywhere else.

E.g a nurse in the USA can work and have a good lifestyle in any state. Why stay in California for instance (even though that job can actually pay well there too)?

I see comments from expat convos such as "social mobility is better in Japan" because the cost of living is lower? Wtf. Salary adjustment, none of that tells me dick about social mobility.
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post 1633099253 03-06-2021, 12:58 PM
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dafuq is social mobility
post 1633099283 03-06-2021, 12:58 PM
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Have literally never heard anyone say this
post 1633099373 03-06-2021, 01:00 PM
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Social mobility is literally what the "American dream" is about.
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post 1633099393 03-06-2021, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted By nothingshocking⏩
dafuq is social mobility
wealth is a bell curve with percentiles

social mobility is going from percentile ranges, although the definitions of these ranges vary from person to person

an example of social mobility is a doctor who comes from a lower-class family in the USA who makes an upper-class income
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post 1633099473 03-06-2021, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
Social mobility is literally what the "American dream" is about.
Ehh, true.

But social mobility is not inferior in, say, UK or Germany compared to there.
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post 1633099793 03-06-2021, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
wealth is a bell curve with percentiles

social mobility is going from percentile ranges, although the definitions of these ranges vary from person to person

an example of social mobility is a doctor who comes from a lower-class family in the USA who makes an upper-class income
yeah, my dad's grandpa was a bricklayer, his dad was a mechanic who owned a gas station, my dad became a specialized surgeon and professor at top medical school, I'm a CFO - so I guess the mobility stopped with me

My girlfriend grew up dirt poor in a small town, her mom made her clothes and stuff like that, she now makes 200K working in Medicine

seems like social mobility is alive and well
post 1633100033 03-06-2021, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
Ehh, true.

But social mobility is not inferior in, say, UK or Germany compared to there.
I think you're applying the "freedom level" debate points to this social mobility debate.

I think, for sure, its easier to be socially mobile in America than UK, at least, just Because of the population & thus wealth you can siphon off if you do anything that garners interest. Like, £1 from 10 million people in England is like 20% of the population. $1 from 10 million people in the US is michigan.
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post 1633100523 03-06-2021, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
I think you're applying the "freedom level" debate points to this social mobility debate.

I think, for sure, its easier to be socially mobile in America than UK, at least, just Because of the population & thus wealth you can siphon off if you do anything that garners interest. Like, £1 from 10 million people in England is like 20% of the population. $1 from 10 million people in the US is michigan.
I have heard this argument but it actually doesn't make sense. Scalable businesses are scalable regardless of the country. By that logic, it is easier to be socially mobile in India and China, which we know is not true.

I think the rewards for high-earners and business people in the USA are higher but you have less of a safety net if things go south compared to the UK for instance.

There are also types of social mobility. In contrast to the first one above, in the UK trickling down through tax means more people less than 50th percentile on the bell curve are better off (at the expense of the high earners) but that helps some of them have equal opportunities to become high-earners themselves. This is taken to the next level (opposite direction of the USA) in Scandinavian countries, which rank highest on IHDI.
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post 1633100803 03-06-2021, 01:17 PM
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That's what you get when you choose a career field where there are limited jobs and the jobs are only in some locations but yet the pay isn't really that great because they have loads of *******s that want those jobs.
post 1633100913 03-06-2021, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted By nothingshocking⏩
yeah, my dad's grandpa was a bricklayer, his dad was a mechanic who owned a gas station, my dad became a specialized surgeon and professor at top medical school, I'm a CFO - so I guess the mobility stopped with me

My girlfriend grew up dirt poor in a small town, her mom made her clothes and stuff like that, she now makes 200K working in Medicine

seems like social mobility is alive and well
I just think if it is like top 30 IHDI countries comparisons on that level make no sense (in contrast to comparing USA/UK to, say, Syria totally different ballgame)
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post 1633101143 03-06-2021, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
I have heard this argument but it actually doesn't make sense. Scalable businesses are scalable regardless of the country. By that logic, it is easier to be socially mobile in India and China, which we know is not true.

I think the rewards for high-earners and business people in the USA are higher but you have less of a safety net if things go south compared to the UK for instance.

There are also types of social mobility. In contrast to the first one above, in the UK trickling down through tax means more people less than 50th percentile on the bell curve are better off (at the expense of the high earners) but that helps some of them have equal opportunities to become high-earners themselves. This is taken to the next level (opposite direction of the USA) in Scandinavian countries, which rank highest on IHDI.
The comparison with 3rd world countries surely can't be relevant especially when opportunity is the factor from which social mobility takes off.

I see your point, but "high earner" is defined in incredibly different ways in the UK vs US, just look at the highest tax brackets, £150,000+ compared to $500,000+
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post 1633101663 03-06-2021, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
The comparison with 3rd world countries surely can't be relevant especially when opportunity is the factor from which social mobility takes off.

I see your point, but "high earner" is defined in incredibly different ways in the UK vs US, just look at the highest tax brackets, £150,000+ compared to $500,000+
I totally see your point about scalable businesses and populations. But I believe products are traded on the WTO level so having access to a larger market domestically is not that much of a benefit for social mobilty.

Also pretty much anywhere a successful business allows social mobility, including China and India. However, not many of those take off to achieve this social mobility.

Whereas because of the difference in tax brackets, the bottom 50th percentile in like the UK or Germany can be taught of as perhaps having more opportunities.

This is not the end all be all as these economic "science" terminologies are quite vague and unpredictable but as I have mentioned if you are on track to be on a good job and projected to be a no less than 100k USD and going to average 200k in the last 20 years of your life, the reward reaping will be better than the equivalent in the UK. But if you are at the bottom of the capitalist chain it can hurt twice as bad in the USA.
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post 1633102293 03-06-2021, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted By nothingshocking⏩
yeah, my dad's grandpa was a bricklayer, his dad was a mechanic who owned a gas station, my dad became a specialized surgeon and professor at top medical school, I'm a CFO - so I guess the mobility stopped with me

My girlfriend grew up dirt poor in a small town, her mom made her clothes and stuff like that, she now makes 200K working in Medicine

seems like social mobility is alive and well
Honestly I don't even know why we have economists at all. All those big brain guys at the London School of Economics? They could have just asked a guy on a gay indian bodybuilding forum who knows a couple people.

All their work is for nothing and conclusions completely wrong.
post 1633103293 03-06-2021, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
Honestly I don't even know why we have economists at all. All those big brain guys at the London School of Economics? They could have just asked a guy on a gay indian bodybuilding forum who knows a couple people.

All their work is for nothing and conclusions completely wrong.
What you jab at is fair. However, you also miss that Economics as a rigid science is dubious at best. Do not use a big academia name - big academia in the non-STEM puts out stuff like "White defensiveness".


Although as I have pointed out above. There do seem to be a better "socialist" type of benefit where people lower on the bell curve are better. Although if someone is successful he can call them leeches.
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