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Forum » *Official* Options trading thread: Why Alpha/Beta when you can Theta?
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Thread: *Official* Options trading thread: Why Alpha/Beta when you can Theta?

post 1634595583 03-25-2021, 08:46 AM
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#571
  1. Travis99
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Originally Posted By chino3⏩
Yeah, had no intentions of ever stepping foot in there, and these sort of comments solidify my position lol.

As for how it's going, it's been better lol. During the crash/tech wreck/whatever, I took a massive fuggin hair cut. A 37% drop... Clawing my way back up, but then today I got prolapsed. HBU bby?



Also, DFV posted his holdings... fuark

I’m down but holding no contracts, just shares. But yesterday was down about 7%, so I’m just gonna step back and let the market do what it’s gonna do. Not selling anything at a loss.

Hopefully we pull out of this soon rather than later.
There is no they…
post 1634597103 03-25-2021, 09:09 AM
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#572
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This is the best volume GME has had in while.

Interesting.


gonna touch 3 month average volume already

post 1634597303 03-25-2021, 09:12 AM
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#573
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Originally Posted By Travis99⏩
I’m down but holding no contracts, just shares. But yesterday was down about 7%, so I’m just gonna step back and let the market do what it’s gonna do. Not selling anything at a loss.

Hopefully we pull out of this soon rather than later.
Feels. I have mellowed out on CSP's until things seem a little more stable, or unless I see something I actually want to hold. So currently have CSPs on

DHI
LULU
RKT
VZ

We'll see how things play out and how I handle them (assign vs roll for better position/premium).

My current holdings are

ARK (all of them)
LULU
PLTR
TSLA

I'm tempted to just sell end of year CC's for my entry point on the ARK's and PLTR, or open "naked" calls for every expiry there is. The former would be a set it and forget it move, but the naked option would require a lot of management/attention (and potentially yield more money)... PLTR should see a really good run up prior to their next demo day, so I think I will wait until at least then.

I'm still sitting on about 50% cash, but I really don't feel comfortable jumping into anything, and would rather focus on getting current positions cleared out (meaning called away at desired levels, or back to green).
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1634598123 03-25-2021, 09:22 AM
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#574
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Originally Posted By chino3⏩
Feels. I have mellowed out on CSP's until things seem a little more stable, or unless I see something I actually want to hold. So currently have CSPs on

DHI
LULU
RKT
VZ

We'll see how things play out and how I handle them (assign vs roll for better position/premium).

My current holdings are

ARK (all of them)
LULU
PLTR
TSLA

I'm tempted to just sell end of year CC's for my entry point on the ARK's and PLTR, or open "naked" calls for every expiry there is. The former would be a set it and forget it move, but the naked option would require a lot of management/attention (and potentially yield more money)... PLTR should see a really good run up prior to their next demo day, so I think I will wait until at least then.

I'm still sitting on about 50% cash, but I really don't feel comfortable jumping into anything, and would rather focus on getting current positions cleared out (meaning called away at desired levels, or back to green).
I’m holding ARKG ARKF

Selling cc definitely not a bad idea. I may do the same.
There is no they…
post 1634600103 03-25-2021, 09:45 AM
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#575
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Hey option****s, how do you guys trade to avoid getting burned by false breakouts?

I've usually set my stop loss at 90% of my buy in, but sometimes the false breakout can cause it to go all the way down to 70% or 80% before reversing, causing me to lose out on big gains. The issue is that if there is never a reversal, that's a pretty hefty loss I'd rather not have which I could have realized earlier (poverty trading account)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#By_absorption
post 1634619693 03-25-2021, 02:14 PM
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#576
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Originally Posted By KingSWRV⏩
Is this where all the idiot anti-social chit talkers scurried off to?

Guess what youre gonna have to run away again. Find some other chit hole to escape to so you can be anti-social creeps.

The new people are here too and you hate everyone so fuk off
Spoiler!

"It won't get better, just different."
post 1634688633 03-26-2021, 11:30 AM
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#577
  1. smashedurgfx10
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guys question

sold a put which has gone ITM. its pretty far in.

do i roll it out or get assigned and sell covered calls?

to just break even id need to roll it 3 weeks

pretty stuck on what to do as i think it might keep falling but on the other hand i dont want to have money tied up for 3 weeks
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post 1634690553 03-26-2021, 11:53 AM
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#578
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Originally Posted By smashedurgfx10⏩
guys question

sold a put which has gone ITM. its pretty far in.

do i roll it out or get assigned and sell covered calls?

to just break even id need to roll it 3 weeks

pretty stuck on what to do as i think it might keep falling but on the other hand i dont want to have money tied up for 3 weeks
Your call. If your assumption is it still has lower to go, I'd probably take assignment and sell calls. If you think it's made its move and is going to rebound or at stop dropping and move sorta sideways, then I'd probably roll the put out.
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post 1634691433 03-26-2021, 12:02 PM
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#579
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Got a question - I did a 700C on TSLA last week for expiration today. As you can imagine, it's about to expire worthless ($2k loss). TSLA is currently trading at $608.

I just want my money back so I was wondering, is it much of a risk to close this option then do a 4/2 STO 700C x10, which would provide me with $2k premium? I don't have the shares to do that, not even sure my broker would allow it as I believe that would be a naked call.
I can never tell if you're trolling or serious with your posts.

Selling a call with no shares would indeed be a naked call. I'd bet anything your broker won't allow you to do so, but even if they did, I would advise heavily against it because you are nowhere near the level of understanding you need to be to manage a position like that.
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post 1634692153 03-26-2021, 12:09 PM
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#580
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Got a question - I did a 700C on TSLA last week for expiration today. As you can imagine, it's about to expire worthless ($2k loss). TSLA is currently trading at $608.

I just want my money back so I was wondering, is it much of a risk to close this option then do a 4/2 STO 700C x10, which would provide me with $2k premium? I don't have the shares to do that as a covered call, not even sure my broker would allow it as I believe that would be a naked call.
Doubt your broker would allow that
post 1634692193 03-26-2021, 12:09 PM
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#581
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
Your call. If your assumption is it still has lower to go, I'd probably take assignment and sell calls. If you think it's made its move and is going to rebound or at stop dropping and move sorta sideways, then I'd probably roll the put out.
agreed unless call premiums zuk dink. PLTR for instance is pure trash for CC's...
Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
I just want my money back so I was wondering, is it much of a risk to close this option then do a 4/2 STO 700C x10,
Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
I can never tell if you're trolling or serious with your posts.

Selling a call with no shares would indeed be a naked call. I'd bet anything your broker won't allow you to do so, but even if they did, I would advise heavily against it because you are nowhere near the level of understanding you need to be to manage a position like that.
Jeebus crust... Tug, your post reads EXACTLY like how gamblers end up with loan sharks cutting off fingers and chit... ded fkn srs.

Also remember how just recently TSLA went up 20% in one day? Imagine being on the wrong side of that with naked options lol.

Finally, you 100% won't be able to do this. With standard margin, you would have to have massive capital available for something like this. With portfolio margin, it's a possibility, but you would still have to have close to $200k available IMO.



Anyways,
Taking advantage of TSLA dip and opened a LEAP to do PMCC's on. Here is the run down, and my goals and best outcomes

Spoiler!

BTO
TSLA
1/21/22
$326c @ $309 x4

Goal is to line up weekly CC's 4 weeks in advance, as one closes, I open another and keep it going and going. Price target is purely based on $1k/contract in premium, so in premium farming alone looking for $4k/month. This is what I did

STO
TSLA
4/1 - $642.50cc @ $10.00
4/9 - $682.50cc @ $10.10
4/16 - $705cc @ $10.5
4/23 - $735cc @ $10.8

But Chino3, what happens if it goes ITM? I can either roll, or BTC the CC and STC the leap.
If I BTC and STC, max profits will be as follows:

4/1 - $642.50cc @ $10.00 - $3,960
4/9 - $682.50cc @ $10.10 - $7,336
4/16 - $705cc @ $10.5 - $9,426
4/23 - $735cc @ $10.8 - $12,241

That's absolute "best case" so realistically looking at farming the CC premiums until ready to get out. I'm going to aggressively sell CC's on my existing shares to get rid of them altogether at this point, but will probably wait until Monday to do so.
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1634692523 03-26-2021, 12:13 PM
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#582
  1. smashedurgfx10
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
Your call. If your assumption is it still has lower to go, I'd probably take assignment and sell calls. If you think it's made its move and is going to rebound or at stop dropping and move sorta sideways, then I'd probably roll the put out.
its absolutely tanking

i fukked up hard

i haven't been trading for that long but i didn't think id make such a stupid mistake as this.

100 shares of abnb aren't cheap either.

i feel lost srs. if i take assignment im already like 1.5k usd down and it could easily tank 20usd lower at this rate
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post 1634695713 03-26-2021, 12:47 PM
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#583
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Hmm. Well, the reason I thought about it is because the chances of TSLA hitting $700 next week seem to be low (I realize the market is nuts right now and anything could happen) so I thought it was low risk. In the case of TSLA dipping another 20%, yea my CC would go red, but as long as the week finished below $700 I'd still keep the premium. If TSLA miraculously hit $700 I would just BTC before that and lose the premium. Anyways, makes sense that I won't be able to do it. Are there any ways to get out of this? I'm thinking that rolling into another call or put is a bad idea. Maybe just take the L..
I'd just take the L. I can't think of any really crafty ways to make this situation any better, and you're going down a slippery slope of doubling down to get back to even. Best way is to grind with smart small moves.
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1634695783 03-26-2021, 12:48 PM
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#584
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i dont get how VOO was barely affected the past few weeks. Isn't it a major tech index?
post 1634696743 03-26-2021, 01:00 PM
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#585
  1. SpeedCheeser
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
How many posts of mine have you read..? Hopefully you're not referring to my paper hand posts from like 6 months ago. You should read one of my long ass posts in this thread a few pages back, not saying I'm an expert but I'm certainly not at the level of inexperience where my posts would be routinely interpreted as trolling.

Anyways, I'd imagine if somehow TSLA neared $700 next week I would just close my position before it got there and nullify any risk of losing $
I've been away from the forums a bit an only lurking here and there for the most part, but even still, I've seen enough. Every one of them I've seen shows a lack of fundamental understanding, not enough detail to know what's even being asked/talked about, or it's just so all over the place that there's usually no point in even responding because there's too much to unpack. Example:
Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Hmm. Well, the reason I thought about it is because the chances of TSLA hitting $700 next week seem to be low (I realize the market is nuts right now and anything could happen) so I thought it was low risk. In the case of TSLA dipping another 20%, yea my CC would go red, but as long as the week finished below $700 I'd still keep the premium. If TSLA miraculously hit $700 I would just BTC before that and lose the premium. Anyways, makes sense that I won't be able to do it. Are there any ways to get out of this? I'm thinking that rolling into another call or put is a bad idea. Maybe just take the L..
You went from talking about 10 x naked calls to somehow talking about a covered call on a stock you previously said you don't even have the shares for to cover a call. Or thinking that if you sold a call $100 OTM and the stock rose to that price that you'd be able to just close for a break even amount.
Originally Posted By chino3⏩
agreed unless call premiums zuk dink. PLTR for instance is pure trash for CC's...
Perhaps, but if the stock is continuing to fall your puts are going to keep going against you. At least if the price continues to drop IV should rise and make premiums juicier as you roll your calls down. You could also sell a call against your put and go inverted to try and improve your odds. But either way, on a long down turn I think your best probabilities are going to include selling calls.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert or an adviser.
Jeebus crust... Tug, your post reads EXACTLY like how gamblers end up with loan sharks cutting off fingers and chit... ded fkn srs.

Also remember how just recently TSLA went up 20% in one day? Imagine being on the wrong side of that with naked options lol.

Finally, you 100% won't be able to do this. With standard margin, you would have to have massive capital available for something like this. With portfolio margin, it's a possibility, but you would still have to have close to $200k available IMO.
Also this with the gambling mentality. But then that's most people with options.

And yeah, Tasty would require close to $150k to sell 10 naked TSLA calls.
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post 1634698473 03-26-2021, 01:22 PM
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#586
  1. SpeedCheeser
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Whatever brah. I used CC/naked call interchangeably in my last post on accident, I'm not writing eloquent posts here as I'm working a full time engineering job while I trade/post, the focus isn't there.

Anyways, unless you're coming from a position of understanding the financial calculus and probabilistic methods behind trading at the graduate level, there's no reason (in my opinion) to come off denigrating others who are trying to learn, but you do you. I don't take much offense at all, really.
I'm not trying to be degrading or offensive, but if you're not going to take the time to be "eloquent" with your posts, then you can't pretend to be surprised when people are confused about what you're saying or think it comes across as trolling. Like with CC/naked calls - a CC is a bullish position and a naked call is a bearish position. They can't really be used interchangeably.
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post 1634700403 03-26-2021, 01:40 PM
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#587
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wtf are you doing tug.

tsla is unpredictable as phuck chart looks ugly as hell.

touching it without owning shares might as well invest in $rope.


think tesla at some point will release delivery numbers soon.

imagine being on the wrong end of that trade naked.


take L and move on
post 1634701233 03-26-2021, 01:48 PM
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#588
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Made this chart/red line for fun when I opened up my short position on TSLA a while ago ($820s). You brahs mirin how closely price has been following? Hopefully $500 by July it'll be a 5x play.

post 1634701603 03-26-2021, 01:52 PM
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#589
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^^^^






I am believer they will go down. Just problem stepping in to buy puts when too many shills are licking the ground Elon walks on.


It just needs one hedge fund to sell and it will go down to reality, like today viacom / bidu / discovery got wrecked.
post 1634717473 03-26-2021, 05:13 PM
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#590
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
I've been away from the forums a bit an only lurking here and there for the most part, but even still, I've seen enough. Every one of them I've seen shows a lack of fundamental understanding, not enough detail to know what's even being asked/talked about, or it's just so all over the place that there's usually no point in even responding because there's too much to unpack. Example:



You went from talking about 10 x naked calls to somehow talking about a covered call on a stock you previously said you don't even have the shares for to cover a call. Or thinking that if you sold a call $100 OTM and the stock rose to that price that you'd be able to just close for a break even amount.



Perhaps, but if the stock is continuing to fall your puts are going to keep going against you. At least if the price continues to drop IV should rise and make premiums juicier as you roll your calls down. You could also sell a call against your put and go inverted to try and improve your odds. But either way, on a long down turn I think your best probabilities are going to include selling calls.
Try to just only browse these threads cause the rest of a misc is full of racist *******s but then you come here and you see newbs coming in asking basic questions.

In this market, one-leg options are not good enough due to the sideways action. Chino has written about spreads/ I haven't been trading as much but it seems either selling puts on deep red days (close them on pump days i.e. those positive headline articles) or opening spreads (credit/debit) on up/down days and closing them out seems to work. Won't get massive gains but things are too choppy currently to mess with buying options.

Apparently, SoFi is allowing some users to buy IPOs at the IPO price before opening. Plan on selling within the same day from late-retail pump. Maybe a good gamble for the Coinbase IPO after seeing every IPO pump at opening.
post 1634720463 03-26-2021, 06:01 PM
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#591
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Originally Posted By SolidPaul⏩
Apparently, SoFi is allowing some users to buy IPOs at the IPO price before opening. Plan on selling within the same day from late-retail pump. Maybe a good gamble for the Coinbase IPO after seeing every IPO pump at opening.
Was thinking about opening an account just for this but then read this:
company has held off on offering margin or options trading
lol get fukked

but then again, to be eligible for the program, you only need $3k in your account. So maybe just open a $10k account, and have it be ONLY an IPO account. Then again, if I hold, I want to sell calls as soon as they are available, which apparently this poverty platform doesn't do...
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1634723333 03-26-2021, 06:49 PM
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#592
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Originally Posted By SolidPaul⏩
Apparently, SoFi is allowing some users to buy IPOs at the IPO price before opening. Plan on selling within the same day from late-retail pump. Maybe a good gamble for the Coinbase IPO after seeing every IPO pump at opening.
It didn't work this time with Roblox.

I am holding rblx shares barely at price it ipo'd at $65. GME won't phucking go away and wsb will never leave for anything else to pump.


Coinbase has huge upside. Only problem I see with coinbase it will be like riot / square / ebon etc. crypto goes up everyone goes into crypto / blockchain stocks.


................

mirin chino your time management skills to manage all your plays.
post 1634725743 03-26-2021, 07:31 PM
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#593
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Originally Posted By chino3⏩
Was thinking about opening an account just for this but then read this:



lol get fukked

but then again, to be eligible for the program, you only need $3k in your account. So maybe just open a $10k account, and have it be ONLY an IPO account. Then again, if I hold, I want to sell calls as soon as they are available, which apparently this poverty platform doesn't do...
Just saw sofi is offering options this year
post 1634728033 03-26-2021, 08:11 PM
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#594
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Originally Posted By Carbonfibre⏩
................

mirin chino your time management skills to manage all your plays.
Tymen.
I’m usually up at 4:30am to make sure I can walk the puppy and get to the gym by 5am-ish so I’m watching pre market action and CNBC for an hour and a half before markets go live. Thinking things over while on the peloton and then going over OPC.com for potential plays in between sets while lifting, and have a game plan for the day. Then it’s just a matter of checking in between meetings and reports.

Originally Posted By Heaney⏩
Just saw sofi is offering options this year
Then maybe it will be worth it... If they did portfolio margin, then I’d be down to fully switch for a perk like this. Then again, just read a comment on reddit that SoFi is basically the bottom of the barrel for underwriters so they might just be getting bull chit listings. Who knows. Plenty of time to figure all this out.
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1634860253 03-28-2021, 06:01 PM
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#595
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History doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes...



We will see if I was premature with my covered calls or not lol.
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1634878223 03-28-2021, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Hmm. Well, the reason I thought about it is because the chances of TSLA hitting $700 next week seem to be low (I realize the market is nuts right now and anything could happen) so I thought it was low risk. In the case of TSLA dipping another 20%, yea my CC would go red, but as long as the week finished below $700 I'd still keep the premium. If TSLA miraculously hit $700 I would just BTC before that and lose the premium. Anyways, makes sense that I won't be able to do it. Are there any ways to get out of this? I'm thinking that rolling into another call or put is a bad idea. Maybe just take the L..
Its April the month where stocks usually boom. I wouldn't touch TSLA puts especially naked puts. Naked calls/puts are the easiest way to bankrupt yourself.
post 1634900023 03-29-2021, 08:28 AM
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#597
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Originally Posted By chino3⏩
Was thinking about opening an account just for this but then read this:



lol get fukked

but then again, to be eligible for the program, you only need $3k in your account. So maybe just open a $10k account, and have it be ONLY an IPO account. Then again, if I hold, I want to sell calls as soon as they are available, which apparently this poverty platform doesn't do...
I mean you could just do it split. Buy the shares in your SOFI account and sell the calls against them in a different account. You could even transfer the shares easily enough probably.
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post 1634902613 03-29-2021, 09:07 AM
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#598
  1. chino3
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Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
I mean you could just do it split. Buy the shares in your SOFI account and sell the calls against them in a different account. You could even transfer the shares easily enough probably.
Don't think holding in one account and selling options in another would work out so well... Transferring may be an option, just have to anticipate at least a week's worth of time with the shares being held up, and the potential of a transfer fee.


STO
TSLA

4/30
$770c @ $10.30

5/7
$790c @ $10.15


Continuing to load up covered calls at whatever strike will yield $1k premium. Between shares and leaps, I can load up 6 at a time. I may get more aggressive with strikes in hopes of getting calls exercised, so I can thin my exposure a bit.
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1634905683 03-29-2021, 09:47 AM
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#599
  1. headturner1
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  1. headturner1
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First ever options trade for me today.

Sold a couple pltr covered calls.

Apr 30 $31 strike. Sold them for a whopping 26$ each.

I went way otm because I really don’t want to potentially get assigned. Cost basis is 25$ on 200 shares.

Did I do it right/wrong?
post 1634907073 03-29-2021, 10:05 AM
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#600
  1. chino3
  1. chino3
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Originally Posted By headturner1⏩
First ever options trade for me today.

Sold a couple pltr covered calls.

Apr 30 $31 strike. Sold them for a whopping 26$ each.

I went way otm because I really don’t want to potentially get assigned. Cost basis is 25$ on 200 shares.

Did I do it right/wrong?
yeah the premiums on PLTR are trash right now, which is crazy considering IV is at +70%. I just opened 5/21 cc's for $30. CB is $29... I want to ditch these shares (have a bunch in my IRA), but nothing around my CB makes it worth while until further out... You're in a good position though. Just look at it like this, if you don't get exercised, you are collecting 1% in premiums/month. If you rinse/repeat, that would be a 12% annual ROI. Just imagine consistently farming 12% each year. Not glamorous, but it's solid returns.
"It won't get better, just different."
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