imagine spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to Gracie families to train you. 20 years of your life dedicated to the craft.

A black guy with knee problems rolls off his couch and does this to you.






imagine getting your head played like a bongo in front of the whole world. in front of your wife, mother, daughter etc.






there's not a single Gracie that's competitive in UFC btw. it was a huge con and cope for manlets.

gracies also got outmatched by a flat earth/fake space stoner. Must be crying into their stacks of money when they fall a sleep.

Man BJJ is legit.

I used to be excellent in Muay Thai and after my competitive period I visited one of the top MMA gyms in Brussels a few times.
I got ragdolled lol

The second these BJJ guys realize you are superior in striking they don't waste time & take you down to basically rape you

Lets 'roll' man

imagine being born a gracie. you had 10+ years of head start in the most deadly combative skills known to mankind. If outliers is true, then you already logged your outlier time by the time you're a teen. Imagine having so much skills advantage to everyone else. WOW


then you meet a random black guy recovering from Staph.

I mean your wrong.

If no one knew bjj, the people who did would be running through everyone still. The occasional knockout would still occur when closing for a clinch but that’s about it.

Fact is every ufc fighter learns the basics in bjj. Even if you never plan on using it, you need to understand some basic defenses to what the other person is going to try.

Is pure bjj viable anymore, no. We have a 5th ranked ufc fighter at our gym, he is not the best at gi bjj and that’s not his goal or focus. Would he run through everyone in a real fight? Yes of course even those who beat him in a pure bjj roll.

But there is a reason for learning it.

you mean BJJ is on even playing field with wrestling and striking now?

Nope. all you need is take-down defense and scrambling training.


Saku beat the entire gracie family with basic wrestling. Chuck Liddell also proved that. training BJJ excessively is literal autism. diminishing returns. turns all your muscles into slowtwitch.

K will make sure to tell the 95% of competitors they have been doing it wrong.

BJJ is ****e. If you look at the top guys it is now a hybrid wrestling style on the ground, back control, turks, riding position, stand ups from the bottom... BJJ doesn;t work.

BJJ competitors are literal autists.


if you still can't see the truth over the last 10 years of MMA progression. then there's no hope for you.



On an even playing field where everyone knows striking, wrestling and BJJ. BJJ is the biggest waste of time. Compare BJJ base champs VS others. It isn't even close. You can dominate with 0 BJJ. but you NEED either striking and wrestling.

correct. most BJJ guys have legit autism.

It’s almost as if you have to be competent at a mix of different martial arts to compete in mixed martial arts.

Was talking about mma competitors bud.

Your delusional if you don’t think that 95% of them don’t understand basic bjj.

no. blackbeast does not know BJJ. Ngannou started training at 25 yrs old. far behind all those BJJ nutters who has been training since youth. put him against prime Royce Gracie who grew up doing BJJ now. He would have millions of BJJ hours on Ngannou.


What would happen if prime Royce fought Ngannou right now?



The whole marketing of BJJ is that Royce would win over Ngannou because he has more skill. It's a complete farce.

it's the only art with diminishing returns. that's why not a single BJJ based champion in the UFC. All champs come from other bases. all you need is the absolute basics of defense. it's a complete farce.

I’ve already said multiple times prowess is unneccesary. But there is a bare minimum in defense that can be learned in a couple months, but is practically a requirement. Again there’s a few % that it will be necessary. But wether you want to admit it or not, it requires people to adapt to a new learning curve.


Sorry guess I quoted you before you edited and basically acknowledged what my point is.

it's the only art with diminishing returns. that's why not a single BJJ based champion in the UFC. All champs come from other bases. all you need is the absolute basics of defense. it's a complete farce.


those that grew up rolling in BJJ. not a single one is champion.

the space is fake thing is alright in that they can just claim an alien invasion and go full globo, like with covid.

1 guy dedicated his life to BJJ with millions of HOURS since birth in a form of grappling combat. a life wasted.

the other guy just lifted heavyweights.



BJJ = scam.



you would have to be a retard to still train BJJ. legit mentally handicapped.

Yeah should tell Silva it was a complete waste of time to get his 3 stripe black belt or bj penn his 5.

You can argue they rarely used bjj all you want. The amount of time spent learning it is staggering at that point, and acting like you know better and would tell them it was a waste of their time as some random internet warrior is hilarious.

Also let’s go ahead and get rid of the short rounds and see what happens? UFC is literally designed for explosive all out spurts where the most athletic have the most advantage.

You would see a huge swing in who is the best with a vale Tudo style fight. Which is what original bjj was focused around.

Silva = 90% striking


BJ Penn = hasn't been relevant for over a decade.


the first wave of UFC fighters had a lot of BJJ influence due to the farce marketing of BJJ. Now the truth comes to the surface as the talent pool deepened. What happened to the likes of Gracies?


If you still believe in it, you're a retard. It's fair to say.

As a former successful high school wrestler, I have a few things to say.

1. I tried really hard to like BJJ. I went in thinking I would enjoy it and that I was basically gonna start from scratch with a wrestling background to have a small head start with knowing positioning on some level. That was all true. But I legit hated it. Idk why. I was a very technical wrestler and wasn’t always the stronger/faster one on the mat. Perfect fit for BJJ, right? Nope. I was bored sh!tless. Part of it was that fukking gi. It annoyed me to be grabbing the other guy’s gi and him grabbing mine. Tried no-gi. Still didn’t like it. Way too technical for me and i got no enjoyment out of constantly hand-fighting, moving around in odd positions on the mat. It just flat out sucked. With wrestling there’s less grey areas. You execute your takedown in as quick of a burst as you got, and you get your two points. BJJ’s pace was nothing like that. Long story short, I just didn’t care for it.

2. I’m not so sure why wrestling is such a good base for MMA. Because BJJ guys basically know wrestling and then how to tap you out. Wrestling is mainly about control and nothing further. A wrestler isn’t gonna tap out a jiu jitsu guy if they’re both equal at their martial art. I think wrestling is a solid base because of the culture of a high school/college wrestling room. They’re in basically every school in America and there’s just a different toughness you get with wrestling than you do a BJJ room. You’re cutting weight all the time, over-training, barely eating, etc. It’s the physical discipline and explosiveness that wrestling requires that makes them tough. More so than the technique of wrestling being superior to BJJ.

i was a state wrestling runner-up.


i trained half a year of BJJ and nobody at the gym could submit me. 90% can't sniff a take-down to begin with.



this is why Randy Couture can go to a draw with Jacare in submission grappling. Randy didn't start training BJJ into his 30's meanwhile Jacare was training BJJ since youth. Also Randy was like 45 at the time.


This is also why Barnett Submitted Dean Lister. Barnett is a catch wrestler and submitted a world BJJ Champ.

I’ve never had any particular like for how the gracies opened ufc. It was manipulative, I always felt Rickson got shafted and they were building a money making business.

Khabib said it best, there’s no proper takedown/takedown training and that’s the problem. But he also said it’s perfect on the ground. Again it has its problems but the point still remains, everyone had to change the learning curve and change the sport to accommodate it, attack its weaknesses or shore up your own to nullify it. It made its presence known and every competitor has to acknowledge it exists.

Claiming the whole art is a joke is pretty ridiculous.

The crucial components to competitive MMA are wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai and BJJ.

This is obvious at this point.

Self defense wise imo the best "martial" arts for the average person are BJJ and wrestling.

the whole art is pointless.


all you need is the basics as proven by modern MMA champs. There's 0 point to training BJJ extensively. All you need is TD defense and scrambling ability, which are both covered in wrestling.

the other 5% is just simply recognizing the set-ups of submissions.


There's 0 point to logging thousands of hours in BJJ and giving your trainer hundreds a month. unless you're just a low IQ cuck like taht.

Sounds like op got strangled by a 125lb computer programmer and then had to watch his sloot get tag teamed by the Miyao bros

I think the difference has to lie in toughness, quickness, and strength of a wrestler. Because from a technical standpoint I just can’t see how wrestling is superior to BJJ, and I’m the wrestler who hates BJJ. If you get two guys of equal skill, one in wrestling and one in BJJ, and they grapple, I’m gonna pick BJJ because it’s positioning plus a means to an end....tapping out. Wrestling has no tapping out. You just get the guy on his back, which the BJJ guy is perfectly fine with working from. So in that area it seems more advanced. There’s nothing a BJJ practitioner has to fear from a wrestler from a pure grappling standpoint. The wrestler has to fear getting their arm broken or getting choked out.