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Forum » *Official* Options trading thread: Why Alpha/Beta when you can Theta?
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Thread: *Official* Options trading thread: Why Alpha/Beta when you can Theta?

post 1642008543 07-01-2021, 08:52 PM
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#841
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Bump - damn what did Tug get banned for?

Sold a CSP on BNGO today expiring tomorrow for a $140 premium. Not bad.


Long weekend, what are the plays going into next week? Anyone got a lotto ticket butterfly spread they're playing?
post 1642008663 07-01-2021, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted By wrastler163⏩
Bump - damn what did Tug get banned for?

Sold a CSP on BNGO today expiring tomorrow for a $140 premium. Not bad.


Long weekend, what are the plays going into next week? Anyone got a lotto ticket butterfly spread they're playing?
Waiting on my TENDIES to print

40$ in profit on SPY calls 2 month expir

Will probably be break even tomorrow on CSMA like less then 2 dollars under strike got about a month till expir

Probably my worst options so far AWK about 5$ under strike with about a month remaining had a really bad feeling about that one.

Did a 300% on APPL calls last month.
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post 1642064323 07-02-2021, 05:59 PM
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****ty finish today

Anyone got any calls theyre gonna get on Monday morning?
Banks all dipped so they are looking juicy
By reading this post you acknowledge SikhAndDestroy is an online persona and all posts by SikhAndDestroy are satirical in nature. Comments by SikhAndDestroy shall not reflect on the integrity and morals of the author portraying the online character nor any professional or contractual affiliates of the author.

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post 1642064723 07-02-2021, 06:09 PM
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#844
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Originally Posted By SikhAndDestroy⏩
****ty finish today

Anyone got any calls theyre gonna get on Monday morning?
Banks all dipped so they are looking juicy
monday is closed no?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#By_absorption
post 1642066863 07-02-2021, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted By wrastler163⏩
Bump - damn what did Tug get banned for?
Told wincel to rope or something like that.
post 1642073983 07-02-2021, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted By SikhAndDestroy⏩
****ty finish today

Anyone got any calls theyre gonna get on Monday morning?
Banks all dipped so they are looking juicy
my SPY and CSMA calls started printing today as mentioned above roughly 410$ in profit right now AWK still going side ways but realized it was a bad call after taking it if only 1 out of my past 4 options expire worthless such is life.

As somebody mentioned I think U.S market is closed on Monday at least bank holiday I believe.
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post 1642076593 07-02-2021, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted By usersignup2⏩
STO
AAPL Jul16 135c
AMC Jun25 65c
PLTR Jun25 27c x10
SYK Aug20 270c
TSLA Jun25 642.50c x4

Looking to net just over 3k with these plays.
TSLA surge caught me off guard. IV went sky high mid week as price increased. Rolled the dice and waited one day to play it out but price went against me. Waiting until Friday to close actually helped me as price faded. In the end massive loss for the week at -11.5k. In hindsight not a lot I could have done to prevent loss. Monday IV was low and falling when I sold calls so premium was low to begin with. Chosen strike was correct given the conditions. Wednesday close, contract was just ITM and IV high so premium too high to close. Price was at the top of trendline and just above 20ema and was expecting resistance at 650, no news in the headlines. Could have rolled to next week here to capture IV. If I had to do it again I probably still would wait for next day, especially given TSLA fades in many previous trading weeks. Thursday, price just ****ed me. Could not trade because I was working. Friday dipped and saved me a little.

This week, sold only TSLA and PLTR calls for 4k net. Was careful not to revenge trade.

For next week STO early to capture theta burn for Monday holiday as markets closed.
STO
TSLA Jul09 710c x2
TSLA Jul09 690c x2
AMC Jul09 55c

Looking to net 4k from these plays
post 1642079203 07-02-2021, 11:46 PM
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Note- Im just talking to myself in this post. Not trying to come off as an expert. I use this thread for my own accountability.

So what is the case AGAINST rolling a covered call?

In most situations I will not roll. The exception might be the following week's strikes have extrinsic value greater than your current ITM contract.

Example from this week TSLA closed at 678.90

BTC TSLA 675 c Jul02@3.90 or thereabouts
STO TSLA 700 c Jul09@6.65

However, I use covered calls primarily as a neutral or bearish income strategy. If my calls are ITM and I see momentum becomes heavily bullish, likely rolling strikes will either put me way out in time horizon or still deep in bullish territory. In both cases I think it is advantageous to take the loss and make safe gains in the coming weeks. Why?

1- Less stress. Making safe plays is much less stressful and the name of the game is long term gains which you can only do if you dont burn out.
2- Selling weeklies generally earns me more than 30-45 dte options due to theta burn.
3- Opportunity cost due to time out of market.
4- Adjust to price action and momentum. Longer dte option may leave you vulnerable to price movement.
5- Longer dte may leave you vulnerable to news events.

Ideal situations for rolling would be choosing the following week's ATM strike to capture the most extrinsic value, declining momentum i.e. macd turning down, entering a sell signal on the daily.
post 1642228323 07-05-2021, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted By Heaney⏩
Told wincel to rope or something like that.
Damn, didn't know you could get banned for saying what everyone was thinking
post 1642235253 07-05-2021, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted By wrastler163⏩
Damn, didn't know you could get banned for saying what everyone was thinking
Truth. But starbella ruined that when she got a miscer to actually an hero
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1642236303 07-05-2021, 07:57 PM
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post 1642236343 07-05-2021, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted By usersignup2⏩
TSLA surge caught me off guard. IV went sky high mid week as price increased. Rolled the dice and waited one day to play it out but price went against me. Waiting until Friday to close actually helped me as price faded. In the end massive loss for the week at -11.5k. In hindsight not a lot I could have done to prevent loss. Monday IV was low and falling when I sold calls so premium was low to begin with. Chosen strike was correct given the conditions. Wednesday close, contract was just ITM and IV high so premium too high to close. Price was at the top of trendline and just above 20ema and was expecting resistance at 650, no news in the headlines. Could have rolled to next week here to capture IV. If I had to do it again I probably still would wait for next day, especially given TSLA fades in many previous trading weeks. Thursday, price just ****ed me. Could not trade because I was working. Friday dipped and saved me a little.

This week, sold only TSLA and PLTR calls for 4k net. Was careful not to revenge trade.

For next week STO early to capture theta burn for Monday holiday as markets closed.
STO
TSLA Jul09 710c x2
TSLA Jul09 690c x2
AMC Jul09 55c

Looking to net 4k from these plays
Do you ever try to get delta neutral so that selling the naked call is no longer a risk?
post 1642240523 07-05-2021, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted By roughinhouse⏩
Do you ever try to get delta neutral so that selling the naked call is no longer a risk?
All calls I sell are covered so my risk is limited to a degree. I have sold puts in conjunction with short calls, however in recent weeks TSLA has been bearish so did not want to increase my exposure, as ITM short puts double my losses (shares + contract). When I see it become neutral to bullish I will start putting on short puts. However, I would not be able to be fully neutral delta as I wouldnt have enough buying power to go short 2 contracts as well, these sales are split in two accounts, one of which does not allow short selling.

Note that I sell calls for income strategy so would adjust my strikes as risk management rather than buying contracts to hedge. I have bought puts to hedge in the past but use it primarily as a swing hedge.
post 1642259893 07-06-2021, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted By usersignup2⏩
Note- Im just talking to myself in this post. Not trying to come off as an expert. I use this thread for my own accountability.

So what is the case AGAINST rolling a covered call?

In most situations I will not roll. The exception might be the following week's strikes have extrinsic value greater than your current ITM contract.

Example from this week TSLA closed at 678.90

BTC TSLA 675 c Jul02@3.90 or thereabouts
STO TSLA 700 c Jul09@6.65

However, I use covered calls primarily as a neutral or bearish income strategy. If my calls are ITM and I see momentum becomes heavily bullish, likely rolling strikes will either put me way out in time horizon or still deep in bullish territory. In both casesI think it is advantageous to take the lossand make safe gains in the coming weeks. Why?

1- Less stress. Making safe plays is much less stressful and the name of the game is long term gains which you can only do if you dont burn out.
2- Selling weeklies generally earns me more than 30-45 dte options due to theta burn.
3- Opportunity cost due to time out of market.
4- Adjust to price action and momentum. Longer dte option may leave you vulnerable to price movement.
5- Longer dte may leave you vulnerable to news events.

Ideal situations for rolling would be choosing the following week's ATM strike to capture the most extrinsic value, declining momentum i.e. macd turning down, entering a sell signal on the daily.
Why are you taking a loss on a profitable position? A stock trading above your call strike at expiration is the max profit for a covered call. If rolling out the call isn't bringing in enough additional credit, let your shares get called away and re-establish your position if you want to keep it going either as a short put or a new covered call position IMO.
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post 1642300933 07-06-2021, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
Why are you taking a loss on a profitable position? A stock trading above your call strike at expiration is the max profit for a covered call. If rolling out the call isn't bringing in enough additional credit, let your shares get called away and re-establish your position if you want to keep it going either as a short put or a new covered call position IMO.
For various reasons, its not ideal for me to get assigned and then short put to wheel on TSLA. The loss I post is only on the call position and does not factor unrealized gains. You can see that I took on another covered call the following week and again this week. I consider a roll to be buy to close and immediately sell to open- my brokerage does not have btc and sto in one transaction.

Essentially I am waiting til market open on Monday to reestablish position instead of Friday. IMO it is potentially a safer play because I can adjust my strike based on Mondays action. If I had rolled I would have pushed out 2 weeks and still be at 50 delta. It would require roughly 7 weeks to break even at 35 delta. Theoretically I could sell weeklies at 20 delta and break even in 5 to 6 weeks, which shows the theta burn of short dated options. I expect it will be much less.

You could ask, why did you **** up so badly and that would be fair. But Im ok with how it played, not happy but no regret.

I agree though, from a pure income play, assignment and then selling puts could normally be a good play. However, TSLA would need to confirm bullish momentum for me to sell puts. As well, assignment at my broker is completed on Tuesday the following week and if TSLA had surged, it would potentially move my cb higher so no known real advantage. Macd was rising so real chance that it would.

Any thoughts? I am always looking for ways to sharpen my game and am open to criticism.
post 1642306643 07-06-2021, 09:03 PM
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What brokerage do you use?

Only reason I wouldn’t consider rolling for a credit no matter how far out or letting a call get exercised, would be if my CB was insanely low and I was in a taxable account AND not longer than a year holding, because of short term cap gains.
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1642327933 07-07-2021, 08:17 AM
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I'm not a financial advisor and by no means an expert, but I'm basically with Chino on this one.

If you're closing a call Friday and selling a new one Monday, then I suppose that's still effectively rolling, but if you aren't collecting more on the new call than you paid to close the old one, you're locking in that loss and increasing your cost basis (or wiping out unrealized gains, whichever way you want to look at it) on the position, which is the last thing I want to do on what's otherwise a profitable position, unless there is a really compelling reason, similar to what Chino is saying.
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post 1642356693 07-07-2021, 03:00 PM
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Update: sold to close my call option on AWK had a bad feeling after opening and figured it was going to expire worthless or was going to take a loss ended up with a 93% return today 3 weeks till expiration not worth risking it nobody knows what is going to happen tomorrow I'm in profits TENDIES printed. Feels good.
- Keep the misc great again

- Watch my poo flush while holding the plunger to make sure I don't flood the bathroom crew.

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post 1642356823 07-07-2021, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted By Realclout⏩
Update: sold to close my call option on AWK had a bad feeling after opening and figured it was going to expire worthless or was going to take a loss ended up with a 93% return today 3 weeks till expiration not worth risking it nobody knows what is going to happen tomorrow I'm in profits TENDIES printed. Feels good.
Nice brah! I was absolutely printing when my buddy landed on Boardwalk, and I had just put up a house there! Then that loser landed on go directly to jail. TENDIES OVERLOAD!!!
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post 1642357093 07-07-2021, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted By chino3⏩
do you get this excited playing monopoly?
Considering it causes you to feel insecure YES because my success shows me that if I was to do this with real money I would be fairly successful based on my testing SEETHE harder srs PATHETIC retard got a floating 400 on SPY too. probably made 1k in the past month or two off BRAINDEAD easy call options if you think you're smart doing this CHIT just lol FOREX was way HARDER this is like playing with legos SRS.

Keep coping though. Nothing like being insecure and having to make yourself feel better by COPING and putting somebody else down.

Think about it I could be you after all how REVOLTING.

hit basically 100% if not 100%+ on all my MoNoPoLy trades PROBABLY better then you SRS.
- Keep the misc great again

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The world is YOURS boyos.
post 1642357703 07-07-2021, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted By Realclout⏩
Considering it causes you to feel insecure YES because my success shows me that if I was to do this with real money I would be fairly successful based on my testing SEETHE harder srs PATHETIC retard got a floating 400 on SPY too. probably made 1k in the past month or two off BRAINDEAD easy call options if you think you're smart doing this CHIT just lol FOREX was way HARDER this is like playing with legos SRS.

Keep coping though. Nothing like being insecure and having to make yourself feel better by COPING and putting somebody else down.

Think about it I could be you after all how REVOLTING.

hit basically 100% if not 100%+ on all my MoNoPoLy trades PROBABLY better then you SRS.
dear diary lol
"It won't get better, just different."
post 1642358863 07-07-2021, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted By chino3⏩
dear diary lol
This person on the internet is HURTING my feelings better KNOCK him down a peg.

Such is life for TIMMY not gonna make it pencil neck losers SRS.
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post 1642361293 07-07-2021, 04:17 PM
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#863
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Stop playing and put your money in then. YOLO swag. Tendies. srs.
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post 1642362073 07-07-2021, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
Stop playing and put your money in then. YOLO swag. Tendies. srs.
Soon, My son. SRS. Gonna be some GREAT and easy passive income if I can continue having good outcomes only done 3 or 4 so far but made money on all of them. Won't do SPY again because premium is pretty expensive but REALLY like AAPL seems like it only goes up and premium is pretty cheap so could definitely see myself TENDIE farming AAPL. Just trying to find good growth stocks that are on an upward trajectory with reasonable premiums so I can just ride the wave for awhile DON'T want to be constantly switch stocks since that is tedious and could potentially cause you to take some bad trades found a couple so far but just hustling CUZ.

Kinda curious how the taxes would work if all of a sudden I make 10k extra in a year.
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post 1642363753 07-07-2021, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted By chino3⏩
What brokerage do you use?

Only reason I wouldn’t consider rolling for a credit no matter how far out or letting a call get exercised, would be if my CB was insanely low and I was in a taxable account AND not longer than a year holding, because of short term cap gains.
Im using BMO Investorline. Ive had it for years plus several accounts with BMO. ****ty but I have an aversion to forms and hate the hassle of moving my money.
post 1642364203 07-07-2021, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
I'm not a financial advisor and by no means an expert, but I'm basically with Chino on this one.

If you're closing a call Friday and selling a new one Monday, then I suppose that's still effectively rolling, but if you aren't collecting more on the new call than you paid to close the old one, you're locking in that loss and increasing your cost basis (or wiping out unrealized gains, whichever way you want to look at it) on the position, which is the last thing I want to do on what's otherwise a profitable position, unless there is a really compelling reason, similar to what Chino is saying.
I think the confusion is just the way I use the term, rolling.

I am opening a new position on the same stock to collect any premium otherwise lost. I just happen to do it over a period of weeks with a number of transactions instead of just one. I appreciate the feedback, though.
post 1642365073 07-07-2021, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted By usersignup2⏩
For next week STO early to capture theta burn for Monday holiday as markets closed.
STO
TSLA Jul09 710c x2
TSLA Jul09 690c x2
AMC Jul09 55c

Looking to net 4k from these plays
Closed the 690C early. Set my btc price at previous days close minus theta burn. Worked perfectly...until TSLA dropped a bit more. All in all, happy with that play. Only left 150ish dollars on the table from a 2500 play.
post 1642382083 07-07-2021, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Realclout⏩
t REALLY like AAPL seems like it only goes up and premium is pretty cheap so could definitely see myself TENDIE farming AAPL.
Maybe keep playing with monopoly money for a little longer boyo (srs)
post 1642383873 07-07-2021, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted By wrastler163⏩
Maybe keep playing with monopoly money for a little longer boyo (srs)
That's the plan, I've only done 4 trades so far, Don't need advice from you. Gotten 100%+ on all of them so far, Not saying that is consistent but just LOL and feeling threatened by my success.

It's really not that hard you don't need to reverse butterfly spread anus option JUST fooking do basic chit ANYBODY who thinks they're smart for knowing how to do this is a guaranteed LOW iq SRS.
- Keep the misc great again

- Watch my poo flush while holding the plunger to make sure I don't flood the bathroom crew.

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Click here ----------------> https://js.do/caffeinatedlogic/50858



The world is YOURS boyos.
post 1642384153 07-07-2021, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
we got a new KingSWRV boyos
Again, If you think you have superior intellect for something this easy you AREN'T going to make it.
- Keep the misc great again

- Watch my poo flush while holding the plunger to make sure I don't flood the bathroom crew.

- You can be REALCLOUT too VIA the REALCLOUT text GENERATOR sponsored BY miscmathematician SRS

Click here ----------------> https://js.do/caffeinatedlogic/50858



The world is YOURS boyos.
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