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» Posture, breaking the muscle pain/compensation chain?? Help!
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post 1647646163 09-23-2021, 06:22 PM
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Posture, breaking the muscle pain/compensation chain?? Help!

Hi guys, as not to ramble, take a look at these pictures. One thing leads to another and poof, a long list of issues.








See how one impacts another? This is exactly me and I've let it get to the stage where my feet are overpronating a lot. It all started with a messed up upper body and I guess it worked it's way down

Can anyone post a pic of this "chain" for the upper torso? Most of the upper body ones suck.

This one in the lower body mentions the femur/tibial etc rotation. Which isn't often mentioned when talking about APT.


Any good advice on this? This has completely ruined my entire life.

Thanks!!



EDIT: The upper body diagrams "suck" because I just know that they leave out a lot of information. They never say what causes what and what leads to what. I also had to read so much to find out the influence the lats have on rounded shoulders/forward head.
post 1647703753 09-24-2021, 02:29 PM
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Bump
post 1647703863 09-24-2021, 02:32 PM
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I find my shoulders are rounded when i'm not thinking about it. Always catch myself and have to correct. Feels and looks beta.
anyway to fix this?
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post 1647705553 09-24-2021, 03:00 PM
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So do a lot of stretching.

I'm always aware of my posture - so I got a foam roller and really stretch out my chest - place it vertical the center of your spine, and reach your arms out to the sides - then with your arms out to the sides, point your thumbs out and rotate them clockwise so that your thumbs are pointing towards the ground, then try to touch the ground with your thumbs - if you can do that then continue raise your arms towards your head as far as you can until you can't touch the ground with your thumbs anymore. This will give you a great chest stretch and really help that shoulder posture.

For the Anterior tilt you need to work on your core strength. There are a million core exercises you can do - pick whatever works for you. And just be aware throughout the day and correct your posture and keep your core tight.

Also look at the hip flexor stretches - lots of those also - best one is one leg over the other while keeping your upper body stationary.
post 1647705983 09-24-2021, 03:07 PM
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Spoiler!
post 1647706713 09-24-2021, 03:21 PM
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Here are some great stretches in addition to what culturaldecay said, Google for more details.

1. Couch stretch reach-good standard to strive for is 2 mins with perfect form I.e top of foot flat against wall and your knee, butt and back all against the wall as well.

2. Wall slides-if you’re an officecel like me, should be doing these every hour or so.

3. Zenith rotations

4. Back bridges-do for reps and for iso holds

5. Last thing-grab a foam roller snd put it behind your back and weave your arms through it so it’s clenched between your arms and back, this will force you to ‘bow’ your chest out which is the opposite of what you do rotting at a desk all day. Play with the movement but I go for 1 minute holds where I’m actively trying to bend the foam roller around my body essentially.

These have helped me abundantly as someone with chronically bad posture, I advise mixing them in at work and in between sets at the gym.
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post 1647706913 09-24-2021, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted By CulturalDecay
So do a lot of stretching.

I'm always aware of my posture - so I got a foam roller and really stretch out my chest - place it vertical the center of your spine, and reach your arms out to the sides - then with your arms out to the sides, point your thumbs out and rotate them clockwise so that your thumbs are pointing towards the ground, then try to touch the ground with your thumbs - if you can do that then continue raise your arms towards your head as far as you can until you can't touch the ground with your thumbs anymore. This will give you a great chest stretch and really help that shoulder posture.

For the Anterior tilt you need to work on your core strength. There are a million core exercises you can do - pick whatever works for you. And just be aware throughout the day and correct your posture and keep your core tight.

Also look at the hip flexor stretches - lots of those also - best one is one leg over the other while keeping your upper body stationary.
Thanks!


Can you post a gif/pic of the chest stretch on the foam roller? (I think I've visualised it right, but not sure)


Is this something you've just learnt or have you has and fixed this yourself?

Thanks.
post 1647707093 09-24-2021, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By youngbuckets5
Here are some great stretches in addition to what culturaldecay said, Google for more details.

1. Couch stretch reach-good standard to strive for is 2 mins with perfect form I.e top of foot flat against wall and your knee, butt and back all against the wall as well.

2. Wall slides-if you’re an officecel like me, should be doing these every hour or so.

3. Zenith rotations

4. Back bridges-do for reps and for iso holds

5. Last thing-grab a foam roller snd put it behind your back and weave your arms through it so it’s clenched between your arms and back, this will force you to ‘bow’ your chest out which is the opposite of what you do rotting at a desk all day. Play with the movement but I go for 1 minute holds where I’m actively trying to bend the foam roller around my body essentially.

These have helped me abundantly as someone with chronically bad posture, I advise mixing them in at work and in between sets at the gym.
Thanks!

Can u post a gif/pic of the 5th one? Not quite sure what you're describing. (I kind of do, it sounds similar to what CulturalDecay described)

So how far are you in fixing your posture? (Rough percentage wise). Were u in pain before u started fixing yourself?


Thanks.
post 1647709103 09-24-2021, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By 04akhriz40
Thanks!

Can u post a gif/pic of the 5th one? Not quite sure what you're describing. (I kind of do, it sounds similar to what CulturalDecay described)

So how far are you in fixing your posture? (Rough percentage wise). Were u in pain before u started fixing yourself?


Thanks.
Sorry mate can’t find a picture but I apologize for that convoluted description. Basically you should be standing up straight and have the foam roller horizontal and held up between your back and arms by being weaved between them. Similar to what effect this guys achieved in this video with a belt:https://youtu.be/ml3kuv7yNss

As far as progress I’m about halfway there. It’s still a conscious effort I constantly have to make to maintain upright posture, but these exercises have made it easier by really opening up my chest and activating my thoracic muscles. Forgot to add, throw in tons of face pulls man. I’ve still got some pain but these exercises have unequivocally improved my quality of life.
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post 1647709433 09-24-2021, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted By youngbuckets5
Here are some great stretches in addition to what culturaldecay said, Google for more details.

1. Couch stretch reach-good standard to strive for is 2 mins with perfect form I.e top of foot flat against wall and your knee, butt and back all against the wall as well.

2. Wall slides-if you’re an officecel like me, should be doing these every hour or so.

3. Zenith rotations

4. Back bridges-do for reps and for iso holds

5. Last thing-grab a foam roller snd put it behind your back and weave your arms through it so it’s clenched between your arms and back, this will force you to ‘bow’ your chest out which is the opposite of what you do rotting at a desk all day. Play with the movement but I go for 1 minute holds where I’m actively trying to bend the foam roller around my body essentially.

These have helped me abundantly as someone with chronically bad posture, I advise mixing them in at work and in between sets at the gym.
This is great advice.

I would add these stretches to the regime as well.

https://imgur.com/a/pYIAfXe
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post 1647711753 09-24-2021, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted By youngbuckets5
Sorry mate can’t find a picture but I apologize for that convoluted description. Basically you should be standing up straight and have the foam roller horizontal and held up between your back and arms by being weaved between them. Similar to what effect this guys achieved in this video with a belt:https://youtu.be/ml3kuv7yNss

As far as progress I’m about halfway there. It’s still a conscious effort I constantly have to make to maintain upright posture, but these exercises have made it easier by really opening up my chest and activating my thoracic muscles. Forgot to add, throw in tons of face pulls man. I’ve still got some pain but these exercises have unequivocally improved my quality of life.
Hmmm, I initially thought you were describing a Chestfly with a foam roller along your spine. Soooo, pretend you're about to do a chest dip, go to the deepest position, then just weave a foam roller through?

So, once you're in that position, what's supposed to be happening? I get that it's the opposite of the desk hunch, but what's it stretching/doing?

Cool! Sounds pretty sick, have tried facepulls in the past. I just have balanced sized rear delts, that's all I noticed from doing it?

Also, is your traps giving you any issues? Mine are ridiculously knotted/compensating.

Thanks.
post 1647711853 09-24-2021, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted By Joseph1990
This is great advice.

I would add these stretches to the regime as well.

https://imgur.com/a/pYIAfXe
Crazy adductor stretch lol, what's the second stretch for?
post 1647712773 09-24-2021, 05:03 PM
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Familiar with these issues. This is what I think I'm struggling with right now:
The Levator Scapulae muscle is a long and thin muscle located on each side of the neck. It is attached to the upper spinal vertebrae and runs twisting downwards to attach to the upper end of the shoulder blade. It contracts to raise the shoulder blade (shrugging the shoulders) and helps to rotate the head at the same time. These muscles are often overloaded by bad posture, sporting injuries and whiplash injuries. The Levator Scapulae trigger points reduce head turning capability, forcing the person to turn their body instead, with tension in the muscles also causing a shortness of breath.
Whiplash injury. Botox treatment would be expensive. 100 units = about $900

https://www.londonpainclinic.com/bac...-of-neck-pain/
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post 1647713363 09-24-2021, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted By katya422
Familiar with these issues. This is what I think I'm struggling with right now:



Whiplash injury. Botox treatment would be expensive. 100 units = about $900

https://www.londonpainclinic.com/bac...-of-neck-pain/
Are you also having posture issues? Or is it just issues local to the neck region?


I've read about levator scapular stretches/releases. I think the upper traps getting dysfunctional are because of weak lower traps, then the levator scapular just comes along for the ride. Releasing the upper traps is just impossible in my case for some reason.


I've had botox before, like 30 injections all over my head/neck area. It was horrendous and did nothing. Have you tried it?
post 1647715273 09-24-2021, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Kiop

Spoiler!
this
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post 1647715553 09-24-2021, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted By ikepen
this
Yeah, hip thrusts and kneeling lunge stretch.
post 1647715643 09-24-2021, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted By 04akhriz40
Are you also having posture issues? Or is it just issues local to the neck region?


I've read about levator scapular stretches/releases. I think the upper traps getting dysfunctional are because of weak lower traps, then the levator scapular just comes along for the ride. Releasing the upper traps is just impossible in my case for some reason.


I've had botox before, like 30 injections all over my head/neck area. It was horrendous and did nothing. Have you tried it?
No, haven't tried it. I think I developed this zig-zag pattern of tightness over the years and I try to stretch and work on it, but haven't found a permanent fix.

The whiplash is sort of separate and though I have had it before this was a recent-ish injury. It has improved a lot from where it started, but I'm still having problems w/jaw pain and clicking which is new since the injury. I could try some kind of mouth guard maybe.
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post 1647716383 09-24-2021, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted By 04akhriz40
Hmmm, I initially thought you were describing a Chestfly with a foam roller along your spine. Soooo, pretend you're about to do a chest dip, go to the deepest position, then just weave a foam roller through?

So, once you're in that position, what's supposed to be happening? I get that it's the opposite of the desk hunch, but what's it stretching/doing?

Cool! Sounds pretty sick, have tried facepulls in the past. I just have balanced sized rear delts, that's all I noticed from doing it?

Also, is your traps giving you any issues? Mine are ridiculously knotted/compensating.

Thanks.
Yep you’ve got the right idea! You can play around with calmly holding the position as well as actively pressing into it by trying to bring your hands together and bend the roller around your body, helps your chest and thoracic tightness.

Nah my traps never give me issues.

Hope these help!
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post 1647716433 09-24-2021, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted By katya422
No, haven't tried it. I think I developed this zig-zag pattern of tightness over the years and I try to stretch and work on it, but haven't found a permanent fix.

The whiplash is sort of separate and though I have had it before this was a recent-ish injury. It has improved a lot from where it started, but I'm still having problems w/jaw pain and clicking which is new since the injury. I could try some kind of mouth guard maybe.
Are u going to try botox? It might work for you and it may only just make u less wrinkley at the least lol!!

Same here, it's quite confusing. I'm at the stage where I getting a ton of scans. I'm also having a try at physio again. Have u tried physio? Lots of people say it fixes them.


Same here with the jaw stuff. TMJD. I strongly believe that once you figure out your neck/posture tightness, your jaw dysfunction will dissappear as it's a knock on effect from the tight surrounding area. However you said whiplash was a part of it, soooo you might have something completely random going on. Was that a car crash or something? In my case I never had an injury at all.

Mouth guards are good but you mentioned that your neck is messed up. Like, literally tilt your head back diagonally and notice the stretch in your jaw and neck. It's all connected as a chain.
post 1647717033 09-24-2021, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted By youngbuckets5
Yep you’ve got the right idea! You can play around with calmly holding the position as well as actively pressing into it by trying to bring your hands together and bend the roller around your body, helps your chest and thoracic tightness.

Nah my traps never give me issues.

Hope these help!
Cool! I'll give that a try and see how it goes! I'm probably going to use a a broomstick or something lol!

What do you know about the lower body? So much conflicting information out there.

Actually, check out this thing called the "Eagle grip". Basically it's a dead hang with your arms behind you, crazy stretch. What do you think of this?



It's basically this but with a much narrower grip. (Narrower is much harder)
post 1647717513 09-24-2021, 06:20 PM
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Do the fatty version of down dog with hands against the wall. Flex quads, straighten upper back and Press into the wall.

Build up your core with floor work in the hollow hold position.

Strengthen your hamstrings wih curls. Avoid weighted hamstring stretches until you're certain the issue is tight hamstrings rather than weak ones. Tightness often stems from your back which core development should address.

Stretch your hips out. Front and back.

These are your biggest bang for buck exercises. Ultimately, it's very rare to rectify posture issues completely from an aesthetic sense but you can at least address the symptoms of your pain.
post 1647724613 09-24-2021, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted By 04akhriz40
Are u going to try botox? It might work for you and it may only just make u less wrinkley at the least lol!!

Same here, it's quite confusing. I'm at the stage where I getting a ton of scans. I'm also having a try at physio again. Have u tried physio? Lots of people say it fixes them.


Same here with the jaw stuff. TMJD. I strongly believe that once you figure out your neck/posture tightness, your jaw dysfunction will dissappear as it's a knock on effect from the tight surrounding area. However you said whiplash was a part of it, soooo you might have something completely random going on. Was that a car crash or something? In my case I never had an injury at all.

Mouth guards are good but you mentioned that your neck is messed up. Like, literally tilt your head back diagonally and notice the stretch in your jaw and neck. It's all connected as a chain.
Injuries from clearing a house/moving.

- I was the bottom person on stairs moving a recliner when the other person's grip slipped and the chair came down on the top of my head.

- Moving a queen size mattress on to a moving truck and the other person bumped their knuckles on something and dropped the mattress which came down on the top left of my head and shoved it back and to the right.

- Walking up a moving ramp and was distracted/in a hurry and smacked right into the top of the garage- worst of the three and totally my own fault.

Basically as a furniture mover I'm less than awesome.

As far as I can tell the back of my neck isn't appreciably wrinkly. lol
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post 1647724763 09-24-2021, 08:34 PM
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go see a PRI trained Physical Therapist. They can help you fix these issues which cause widespread body pain
post 1647728893 09-24-2021, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted By Pumpinmirin
Do the fatty version of down dog with hands against the wall. Flex quads, straighten upper back and Press into the wall.

Build up your core with floor work in the hollow hold position.

Strengthen your hamstrings wih curls. Avoid weighted hamstring stretches until you're certain the issue is tight hamstrings rather than weak ones. Tightness often stems from your back which core development should address.

Stretch your hips out. Front and back.

These are your biggest bang for buck exercises. Ultimately, it's very rare to rectify posture issues completely from an aesthetic sense but you can at least address the symptoms of your pain.
Fatty version? Lol. Why up against the wall and how does this help?

Is that seated hamstring curls? Or the laying on belly version? I thought this aswell and it didn't help. I can also bend down and touch my knuckles on the ground with straight legs without a warmup. HOWEVER, my quads are horrendously tight where if I flex my glutes to a neutral pelvis, my quads don't allow it. (The rectus femoris is just so tight and causes the extreme tilt and never gets looser despite stretching.)

Front and back of hips? Back?

Really? It's rare to fix posture visually and painally? (Lol) I thought visuals come along with easing pain?

Thanks.
post 1647729293 09-24-2021, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted By lolatpaniccels
go see a PRI trained Physical Therapist. They can help you fix these issues which cause widespread body pain
I don't know, how does a PRI one compare a regular NHS one? (My current one looks 20 years old so I'm a bit concerned)
post 1647729773 09-24-2021, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted By 04akhriz40
I don't know, how does a PRI one compare a regular NHS one? (My current one looks 20 years old so I'm a bit concerned)
yeah so they might be newer, I'd look for one with their DPT and has the OCS (orthopedic clinical specialist) certification and at least 10 years experience.

PRI (postural restoration) fixed my posture related imbalances that had be in chronic pain for two years.
post 1647730543 09-24-2021, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted By lolatpaniccels
yeah so they might be newer, I'd look for one with their DPT and has the OCS (orthopedic clinical specialist) certification and at least 10 years experience.

PRI (postural restoration) fixed my posture related imbalances that had be in chronic pain for two years.
Yeah, I wanted some 60 year old so they'd be like "Ohh I've seen this a 1000 times!" and not some kid following protocol.

How do u find that out? Shall I just ask my physiotherapist? Maybe I can get an upgrade lol!

Really? I remember there was a website that marks any PRI licensed physios in your area. Mine is like 230 miles away lol.

That's awesome!! What issues did u have? Are u at 100% now?

Thanks!!
post 1647730823 09-24-2021, 11:03 PM
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You need to work on your feet and eyes, which are the main postural receptors of the body.

Posture is involuntary and brain controls everything, brain takes info from feet and eyes.

Go check out Posturepro's page on ********, and ask them to direct you to a qualified trained practitioner near you that uses their methods.

https://www.********.com/Posturepro

Treatment is called postural recalibration and is the only treatment that targets the brain directly through the neurological pathways associated with posture, mainly using postural insoles to regain foot proprioception / perfect arch, and eye exercises + primitive reflex integration exercises
post 1647731103 09-24-2021, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted By Marc.o
You need to work on your feet and eyes, which are the main postural receptors of the body.

Posture is involuntary and brain controls everything, brain takes info from feet and eyes.

Go check out Posturepro's page on ********, and ask them to direct you to a qualified trained practitioner near you that uses their methods.

https://www.********.com/Posturepro

Treatment is called postural recalibration and is the only treatment that targets the brain directly through the neurological pathways associated with posture, mainly using postural insoles to regain foot proprioception / perfect arch, and eye exercises + primitive reflex integration exercises
Hmmm, sounds pretty cool! I always thought that insoles were cheating? Like over time it'll make the arch even weaker as it doesn't have to support anything?

My ovepronation is caused by my apt as shown in the pictures.

That eye stuff sounds cool, is the any kind of test I can do now or does it require a gadget/specialist?

Thanks.
post 1653034063 12-23-2021, 05:10 AM
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  1. AVIK777
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