Thread: New AC regulations coming
12-29-2021, 09:05 AM
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#1
New AC regulations coming
My wife and I just bought a new AC unit this summer. Part of the issue was that parts were becoming scarce for older units (Unit was installed in 2011), were very expensive, and the new unit would come with a warranty lasting 5-10 years. We own a pretty small home, so 14 SEER was fine for our application.
Yesterday I received a notice from a local HVAC company that by 2023, all southern states would require all new AC unit purchases to be 15 seer or higher, 14 for northern states. At first, this doesn't seem like an issue, but it's a huge issue for existing units. The shut downs caused a scarcity of parts and materials. On top of this, manufacturers aren't going to be wasting scarce materials on new units. Parts are going to become impossible to find for the 14 SEER units, especially in the Southern states. What this means for us is that this warranty could be useless. What good is a warranty if the parts are not available?
This post is a warning and a rant. If you are in the market for an AC unit, check the new state requirements to make sure you wont be in the same situation we are. Once again, government regulation is going to screw people because it's a "once size fits all" policy that doesn't account for the needs of the individual, nor were they aware in 2016, when the policy passed, that the economy would be in such a bad place.
Yesterday I received a notice from a local HVAC company that by 2023, all southern states would require all new AC unit purchases to be 15 seer or higher, 14 for northern states. At first, this doesn't seem like an issue, but it's a huge issue for existing units. The shut downs caused a scarcity of parts and materials. On top of this, manufacturers aren't going to be wasting scarce materials on new units. Parts are going to become impossible to find for the 14 SEER units, especially in the Southern states. What this means for us is that this warranty could be useless. What good is a warranty if the parts are not available?
This post is a warning and a rant. If you are in the market for an AC unit, check the new state requirements to make sure you wont be in the same situation we are. Once again, government regulation is going to screw people because it's a "once size fits all" policy that doesn't account for the needs of the individual, nor were they aware in 2016, when the policy passed, that the economy would be in such a bad place.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
12-29-2021, 09:19 AM
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#2
12-29-2021, 09:21 AM
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#3
Just upgraded to a 16 SEER from an older unit (12 I think? Idk much about ac) and it's already saving us lots of money. Can confirm we had to wait weeks for the equipment.
Was ~$6800 for a 5 ton unit with air hander though, holy smokes at them not going to have parts etc for repairs and warranty work.
Was ~$6800 for a 5 ton unit with air hander though, holy smokes at them not going to have parts etc for repairs and warranty work.
Smooth Seas don't make Strong Sailors. Keep your head up.
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12-29-2021, 09:24 AM
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#4
Originally Posted By Jhalf⏩
This was the second thought I had when I read the email. I started thinking of ways to exploit this situation, like stocks, in an attempt to exploit the situation to balance the potential loss.About to go in on a bosch IDS 2.0 system. Cant wait.
Originally Posted By MrBourbon⏩
We live in a smaller farmhouse, about 1800 sq ft, that is very energy efficient. 14 was plenty for us.Just upgraded to a 16 SEER from an older unit (12 I think? Idk much about ac) and it's already saving us lots of money. Can confirm we had to wait weeks for the equipment.
Was ~$6800 for a 5 ton unit with air hander though, holy smokes at them not going to have parts etc for repairs and warranty work.
Was ~$6800 for a 5 ton unit with air hander though, holy smokes at them not going to have parts etc for repairs and warranty work.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
12-29-2021, 09:38 AM
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#5
- knightofday
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
You dont understand friend, this is all apart of the massive UN Agenda 21.My wife and I just bought a new AC unit this summer. Part of the issue was that parts were becoming scarce for older units (Unit was installed in 2011), were very expensive, and the new unit would come with a warranty lasting 5-10 years. We own a pretty small home, so 14 SEER was fine for our application.
Yesterday I received a notice from a local HVAC company that by 2023, all southern states would require all new AC unit purchases to be 15 seer or higher, 14 for northern states. At first, this doesn't seem like an issue, but it's a huge issue for existing units. The shut downs caused a scarcity of parts and materials. On top of this, manufacturers aren't going to be wasting scarce materials on new units. Parts are going to become impossible to find for the 14 SEER units, especially in the Southern states. What this means for us is that this warranty could be useless. What good is a warranty if the parts are not available?
This post is a warning and a rant. If you are in the market for an AC unit, check the new state requirements to make sure you wont be in the same situation we are.Once again, government regulation is going to screw people because it's a "once size fits all" policy that doesn't account for the needs of the individual, nor were they aware in 2016, when the policy passed, that the economy would be in such a bad place.
Yesterday I received a notice from a local HVAC company that by 2023, all southern states would require all new AC unit purchases to be 15 seer or higher, 14 for northern states. At first, this doesn't seem like an issue, but it's a huge issue for existing units. The shut downs caused a scarcity of parts and materials. On top of this, manufacturers aren't going to be wasting scarce materials on new units. Parts are going to become impossible to find for the 14 SEER units, especially in the Southern states. What this means for us is that this warranty could be useless. What good is a warranty if the parts are not available?
This post is a warning and a rant. If you are in the market for an AC unit, check the new state requirements to make sure you wont be in the same situation we are.Once again, government regulation is going to screw people because it's a "once size fits all" policy that doesn't account for the needs of the individual, nor were they aware in 2016, when the policy passed, that the economy would be in such a bad place.
-killing gas engines
-forcing EVs (total control and not enough power)
-forcing home prices out of reach
-spiking food prices
-regulating industry and modern HVAC out of existence
-a million other points of attack
People just dont get it, its all a part of the larger conspiracy to destroy our way of life in the West srs.
This is not lack of foresight, on the contrary its a ton of foresight-fore their end goals.
If you have not, please read up on UN Agenda 21, please. When viewed through that lens everything will make soo much more sense I promise you srs.
12-29-2021, 09:51 AM
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#6
My AC unit is 3 years old. I believe it's a Trane 4-ton 15 seer unit. Previous unit was old and underpowered. No idea how the original home owner survived. His bill must have been sky high.
I also have solar panels.
I also have solar panels.
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12-29-2021, 09:55 AM
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#7
- JuicedMayhem
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Originally Posted By knightofday⏩
This. I’m shaking my head every time I see someone post that all these things are just little mistakes because the “government is dumb”. No they think you are dumb as fuk and are gonna keep playing you until they control every single part of your existence.You dont understand friend, this is all apart of the massive UN Agenda 21.
-killing gas engines
-forcing EVs (total control and not enough power)
-forcing home prices out of reach
-spiking food prices
-regulating industry and modern HVAC out of existence
-a million other points of attack
People just dont get it, its all a part of the larger conspiracy to destroy our way of life in the West srs.
This is not lack of foresight, on the contrary its a ton of foresight-fore their end goals.
If you have not, please read up on UN Agenda 21, please. When viewed through that lens everything will make soo much more sense I promise you srs.
-killing gas engines
-forcing EVs (total control and not enough power)
-forcing home prices out of reach
-spiking food prices
-regulating industry and modern HVAC out of existence
-a million other points of attack
People just dont get it, its all a part of the larger conspiracy to destroy our way of life in the West srs.
This is not lack of foresight, on the contrary its a ton of foresight-fore their end goals.
If you have not, please read up on UN Agenda 21, please. When viewed through that lens everything will make soo much more sense I promise you srs.
12-29-2021, 10:07 AM
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#8
12-29-2021, 10:30 AM
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#9
Originally Posted By knightofday⏩
I do understand. There are different perspectives to look at this, some sounding less “conspiracy theory-like” than others. For some people, you can’t talk about an agenda or ideology. They don’t know enough of what happening to put all of it together. Instead, they compartmentalize everything, and see everything as a completely separate event.You dont understand friend,
By assessing everything, you can describe the incompetency, ideology, etc. in different ways so that they understand the impact their voting has. The reason is quite simple; when you discuss the conspiracies, you are describing an evil so great that most will simply deny what you say and any existence of it. The implications of an evil of this magnitude existing literally scrambles peoples brains in a way that they cannot comprehend it in the slightest.
This is why I read historical events, current events, economics, sociology, psychology, theology…they all play in to this. You have to find with the individual canned relate to, comprehend, and attempt to “speak their language“.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
12-29-2021, 12:06 PM
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#10
- anonkunbrah
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fukkin Biden
12-29-2021, 12:16 PM
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#11
- LethalGunz34
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Biden’s AC units.
12-29-2021, 12:16 PM
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#12
- DrugsToGetBig
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**** their regulations brah
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12-29-2021, 12:37 PM
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#13
- HMFIC_BROWSIN
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You'll buy your new AC.
And you'll LIKE it.
And you'll LIKE it.
12-29-2021, 12:53 PM
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#14
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
So many things don't add up and lead to a conclusion of either idiocy or malevolence.The reason is quite simple; when you discuss the conspiracies, you are describing an evil so great that most will simply deny what you say and any existence of it. The implications of an evil of this magnitude existing literally scrambles peoples brains in a way that they cannot comprehend it in the slightest.
This is why I read historical events, current events, economics, sociology, psychology, theology…they all play in to this.
This is why I read historical events, current events, economics, sociology, psychology, theology…they all play in to this.
Agree that it is silly to enforce a "one size fits all" system on all homes. I would think though that if 14 SEER is still okay in northern climates then there should still be parts made for systems that size.
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12-29-2021, 12:56 PM
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#15
12-29-2021, 01:00 PM
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#16
- NitrogenWidget
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
you will need a new AC guy then.My wife and I just bought a new AC unit this summer. Part of the issue was that parts were becoming scarce for older units (Unit was installed in 2011), were very expensive, and the new unit would come with a warranty lasting 5-10 years. We own a pretty small home, so 14 SEER was fine for our application.
Yesterday I received a notice from a local HVAC company that by 2023, all southern states would require all new AC unit purchases to be 15 seer or higher, 14 for northern states. At first, this doesn't seem like an issue, but it's a huge issue for existing units. The shut downs caused a scarcity of parts and materials. On top of this, manufacturers aren't going to be wasting scarce materials on new units. Parts are going to become impossible to find for the 14 SEER units, especially in the Southern states. What this means for us is that this warranty could be useless. What good is a warranty if the parts are not available?
This post is a warning and a rant. If you are in the market for an AC unit, check the new state requirements to make sure you wont be in the same situation we are. Once again, government regulation is going to screw people because it's a "once size fits all" policy that doesn't account for the needs of the individual, nor were they aware in 2016, when the policy passed, that the economy would be in such a bad place.
Yesterday I received a notice from a local HVAC company that by 2023, all southern states would require all new AC unit purchases to be 15 seer or higher, 14 for northern states. At first, this doesn't seem like an issue, but it's a huge issue for existing units. The shut downs caused a scarcity of parts and materials. On top of this, manufacturers aren't going to be wasting scarce materials on new units. Parts are going to become impossible to find for the 14 SEER units, especially in the Southern states. What this means for us is that this warranty could be useless. What good is a warranty if the parts are not available?
This post is a warning and a rant. If you are in the market for an AC unit, check the new state requirements to make sure you wont be in the same situation we are. Once again, government regulation is going to screw people because it's a "once size fits all" policy that doesn't account for the needs of the individual, nor were they aware in 2016, when the policy passed, that the economy would be in such a bad place.
Someone who isn't a company service guy lying to you about parts not available.
compressors, evaporators, condensers...basically any appropriately sized parts that will fit inside the housing can be bought anywhere and used to fix a failed AC unit.
if one of those 3 items fails the whole unit needs to be purged, re-sealed, and vac pumped before recharging anyway and an exact manufacturers part is not needed.
property management guys for example do this type of stuff all the time for their units in apartments because replacement of the unit is too expensive.
12-29-2021, 01:06 PM
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#17
- the700level
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You’ll find parts online bruh .. take it ease
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12-29-2021, 01:34 PM
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#18
Originally Posted By NitrogenWidget⏩
The good news is, the biggest reason we replaced the entire thing was because our home warranty was about to run out. We only paid for 20%, but that’s still a big chunk, especially when we have a farm to run now.you will need a new AC guy then.
Someone who isn't a company service guy lying to you about parts not available.
compressors, evaporators, condensers...basically any appropriately sized parts that will fit inside the housing can be bought anywhere and used to fix a failed AC unit.
if one of those 3 items fails the whole unit needs to be purged, re-sealed, and vac pumped before recharging anyway and an exact manufacturers part is not needed.
property management guys for example do this type of stuff all the time for their units in apartments because replacement of the unit is too expensive.
Someone who isn't a company service guy lying to you about parts not available.
compressors, evaporators, condensers...basically any appropriately sized parts that will fit inside the housing can be bought anywhere and used to fix a failed AC unit.
if one of those 3 items fails the whole unit needs to be purged, re-sealed, and vac pumped before recharging anyway and an exact manufacturers part is not needed.
property management guys for example do this type of stuff all the time for their units in apartments because replacement of the unit is too expensive.
I’ll keep that in mind. My brother is an HVAC tech and told me that parts were out back order months out and that not all parts will fit every unit. Many companies make their units based on different marketing ideas. For instance, he feels that some units are clearly designed for easier maintenance, while others are not. With such big differences in shapes and sizes and locations of parts, it can sometimes get tough matching up parts.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
12-29-2021, 03:16 PM
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#19
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Something tells me you don't live in the South. It's hot and humid af. We NEED cold AC. Bigger means it works efficiently and doesn't need to push as much, hence you save on your electric bill even if it's running for hours.Why would you want a 14 SEER unit anyway?
Do you like throwing money out the window?
Do you like throwing money out the window?
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12-29-2021, 03:27 PM
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#20
- knightofday
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Well put, you def do understand.I do understand. There are different perspectives to look at this, some sounding less “conspiracy theory-like” than others. For some people, you can’t talk about an agenda or ideology. They don’t know enough of what happening to put all of it together. Instead, they compartmentalize everything, and see everything as a completely separate event.
By assessing everything, you can describe the incompetency, ideology, etc. in different ways so that they understand the impact their voting has. The reason is quite simple; when you discuss the conspiracies, you are describing an evil so great that most will simply deny what you say and any existence of it.The implications of an evil of this magnitude existing literally scrambles peoples brains in a way that they cannot comprehend it in the slightest.
This is why I read historical events, current events, economics, sociology, psychology, theology…they all play in to this.You have to find with the individual canned relate to, comprehend, and attempt to “speak their language“.
By assessing everything, you can describe the incompetency, ideology, etc. in different ways so that they understand the impact their voting has. The reason is quite simple; when you discuss the conspiracies, you are describing an evil so great that most will simply deny what you say and any existence of it.The implications of an evil of this magnitude existing literally scrambles peoples brains in a way that they cannot comprehend it in the slightest.
This is why I read historical events, current events, economics, sociology, psychology, theology…they all play in to this.You have to find with the individual canned relate to, comprehend, and attempt to “speak their language“.
Its all soo frustrating/infuriating/maddening.
I try to use your approach irl but getting people to string the pieces together is very very hard most of the time.
All we can do is continue trying to wake up as many as we can to possibly have a fighting chance
12-29-2021, 04:57 PM
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#21
12-29-2021, 05:13 PM
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#22
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
You are correct, and I would have gone to a higher SEER rating, but the cost was a huge jump and we were tight on money. We had taken some big losses since the government decided to wreck the economy, then, on top of that, our taxes got jacked up, which forced us out of the city.Tell me you don't know what you're talking about, without telling me you know what you're talking about.
If it is running for hours, a higher SEER rating is better!
If it is running for hours, a higher SEER rating is better!
There was about a $3,000 difference in these units. It's a big jump.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
12-29-2021, 05:17 PM
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#23
- NitrogenWidget
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
ok. I can see that.The good news is, the biggest reason we replaced the entire thing was because our home warranty was about to run out. We only paid for 20%, but that’s still a big chunk, especially when we have a farm to run now.
I’ll keep that in mind. My brother is an HVAC tech and told me that parts were out back order months out and that not all parts will fit every unit. Many companies make their units based on different marketing ideas. For instance, he feels that some units are clearly designed for easier maintenance, while others are not. With such big differences in shapes and sizes and locations of parts, it can sometimes get tough matching up parts.
I’ll keep that in mind. My brother is an HVAC tech and told me that parts were out back order months out and that not all parts will fit every unit. Many companies make their units based on different marketing ideas. For instance, he feels that some units are clearly designed for easier maintenance, while others are not. With such big differences in shapes and sizes and locations of parts, it can sometimes get tough matching up parts.
odd shaped units lack the space of more conventional shaped parts for sure and companies that do this on purpose that can't supply those parts because proprietary can't be manufactured right now.
12-29-2021, 05:27 PM
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#24
- Leannoodle
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Every time they update the energy code, minimum SEER requirements for single family dwelling units goes up.
There will be a short term pinch on the supply chain near the date of enactment and things will mostly go back to normal.
The difference in efficiency between a 13 and 14 or even 13 and 17 SEER are laughable for the vast difference in cost to the consumer.
I’m more concerned over the shift in the northern regions to electrify everything, IE no gas heat and requiring heat pump or geothermal in climates that have too low of ******t temperatures during design winter conditions to make geo or air to air heat pump a viable option without some form of supplemental backup heat.
In my area, we have local governments putting all electric mandates in place with no grid to support it and no regard for the utility costs to the consumer.
There will be a short term pinch on the supply chain near the date of enactment and things will mostly go back to normal.
The difference in efficiency between a 13 and 14 or even 13 and 17 SEER are laughable for the vast difference in cost to the consumer.
I’m more concerned over the shift in the northern regions to electrify everything, IE no gas heat and requiring heat pump or geothermal in climates that have too low of ******t temperatures during design winter conditions to make geo or air to air heat pump a viable option without some form of supplemental backup heat.
In my area, we have local governments putting all electric mandates in place with no grid to support it and no regard for the utility costs to the consumer.
12-29-2021, 05:31 PM
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#25
Originally Posted By Leannoodle⏩
Normally that is the case, the issue is the current state of the economy. Scare resource allocation is jacked up. Shortages everywhere. Supply is in high demand. This is an unprecedented, man made, chaotic scenario that the market will take much longer to recover from.Every time they update the energy code, minimum SEER requirements for single family dwelling units goes up.
There will be a short term pinch on the supply chain near the date of enactment and things will mostly go back to normal.
The difference in efficiency between a 13 and 14 or even 13 and 17 SEER are laughable for the vast difference in cost to the consumer.
I’m more concerned over the shift in the northern regions to electrify everything, IE no gas heat and requiring heat pump or geothermal in climates that have too low of ******t temperatures during design winter conditions to make geo or air to air heat pump a viable option without some form of supplemental backup heat.
In my area, we have local governments putting all electric mandates in place with no grid to support it and no regard for the utility costs to the consumer.
There will be a short term pinch on the supply chain near the date of enactment and things will mostly go back to normal.
The difference in efficiency between a 13 and 14 or even 13 and 17 SEER are laughable for the vast difference in cost to the consumer.
I’m more concerned over the shift in the northern regions to electrify everything, IE no gas heat and requiring heat pump or geothermal in climates that have too low of ******t temperatures during design winter conditions to make geo or air to air heat pump a viable option without some form of supplemental backup heat.
In my area, we have local governments putting all electric mandates in place with no grid to support it and no regard for the utility costs to the consumer.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
12-29-2021, 05:46 PM
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#26
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look at mr millionaire here with AC in his mansion, while the working class misc are using pedestal fans
12-29-2021, 06:19 PM
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#27
- Johnez
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Originally Posted By NitrogenWidget⏩
This. They've used the same basic 3 parts for decades. I'm getting into the trade right now, probably a good time since there's changes a coming.you will need a new AC guy then.
Someone who isn't a company service guy lying to you about parts not available.
compressors, evaporators, condensers...basically any appropriately sized parts that will fit inside the housing can be bought anywhere and used to fix a failed AC unit.
if one of those 3 items fails the whole unit needs to be purged, re-sealed, and vac pumped before recharging anyway and an exact manufacturers part is not needed.
property management guys for example do this type of stuff all the time for their units in apartments because replacement of the unit is too expensive.
Someone who isn't a company service guy lying to you about parts not available.
compressors, evaporators, condensers...basically any appropriately sized parts that will fit inside the housing can be bought anywhere and used to fix a failed AC unit.
if one of those 3 items fails the whole unit needs to be purged, re-sealed, and vac pumped before recharging anyway and an exact manufacturers part is not needed.
property management guys for example do this type of stuff all the time for their units in apartments because replacement of the unit is too expensive.
The big changes that are going to really suck is when they phase out NG heat. They don't even have to ban it since NOX regs are being pushed to the point that no manufacturer will be able to meet feasibly.
Virtue is its own reward.
12-29-2021, 06:26 PM
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#28
12-29-2021, 06:27 PM
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#29
- Johnez
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Originally Posted By Leannoodle⏩
The efficiency of electric vs NG is laughable. You can tell there are no engineers at all in the room when these regulations are made...Every time they update the energy code, minimum SEER requirements for single family dwelling units goes up.
There will be a short term pinch on the supply chain near the date of enactment and things will mostly go back to normal.
The difference in efficiency between a 13 and 14 or even 13 and 17 SEER are laughable for the vast difference in cost to the consumer.
I’m more concerned over the shift in the northern regions to electrify everything, IE no gas heat and requiring heat pump or geothermal in climates that have too low of ******t temperatures during design winter conditions to make geo or air to air heat pump a viable option without some form of supplemental backup heat.
In my area, we have local governments putting all electric mandates in place with no grid to support it and no regard for the utility costs to the consumer.
There will be a short term pinch on the supply chain near the date of enactment and things will mostly go back to normal.
The difference in efficiency between a 13 and 14 or even 13 and 17 SEER are laughable for the vast difference in cost to the consumer.
I’m more concerned over the shift in the northern regions to electrify everything, IE no gas heat and requiring heat pump or geothermal in climates that have too low of ******t temperatures during design winter conditions to make geo or air to air heat pump a viable option without some form of supplemental backup heat.
In my area, we have local governments putting all electric mandates in place with no grid to support it and no regard for the utility costs to the consumer.
Virtue is its own reward.
12-29-2021, 06:30 PM
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#30
- misheru
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- misheru
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Originally Posted By knightofday⏩
What is the point of that?You dont understand friend, this is all apart of the massive UN Agenda 21.
-killing gas engines
-forcing EVs (total control and not enough power)
-forcing home prices out of reach
-spiking food prices
-regulating industry and modern HVAC out of existence
-a million other points of attack
People just dont get it, its all a part of the larger conspiracy to destroy our way of life in the West srs.
This is not lack of foresight, on the contrary its a ton of foresight-fore their end goals.
If you have not, please read up on UN Agenda 21, please. When viewed through that lens everything will make soo much more sense I promise you srs.
-killing gas engines
-forcing EVs (total control and not enough power)
-forcing home prices out of reach
-spiking food prices
-regulating industry and modern HVAC out of existence
-a million other points of attack
People just dont get it, its all a part of the larger conspiracy to destroy our way of life in the West srs.
This is not lack of foresight, on the contrary its a ton of foresight-fore their end goals.
If you have not, please read up on UN Agenda 21, please. When viewed through that lens everything will make soo much more sense I promise you srs.
Embrace the Clown World to Excel in the Clown World - When in Rome do as Romans do
White people being so terrified of being perceived as racist/sexist/*ist that they’ll ruin each other’s lives over the slightest infraction is the greatest entertainment of our time.
If your politics involves anything other than the words "Don't Tread on Me", you're part of the problem - "left" or "right".
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