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Why doesn't welfare provide utility rather than cash?
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12-30-2021, 07:10 AM
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Why doesn't welfare provide utility rather than cash?
E.g Welfare centres can give out basic non-branded clothes, healthy food, public transportation cards and barely any money at all to assure that the person's time/effort is dedicated to LEAVE the social system.
Not sure how a homeless drug addict is expected NOT to spend his social security money on drugs when it is so hard.
Not sure how a homeless drug addict is expected NOT to spend his social security money on drugs when it is so hard.
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12-30-2021, 07:14 AM
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Great ideas. Too much logic and work for them.
I personally only give homeless people clothes, food or a gift card for Subway or something.
I personally only give homeless people clothes, food or a gift card for Subway or something.
12-30-2021, 07:17 AM
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You answered your own question, OP
It's not set up to get them off it. Like every other leftist good-idea, it's set up to make politicians look like social justice heroes.
It's not set up to get them off it. Like every other leftist good-idea, it's set up to make politicians look like social justice heroes.
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12-30-2021, 07:29 AM
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#4
Cash assistance is rarely given and it is temporary too, not an ongoing open-ended program.
And it isn't even funded at a high enough level to help all the people who qualify for it.
I'm not sure why so many people persist in believing that somehow they would be richer and pay less taxes if the government didn't provide generous social benefits to lazy ne'er do wells.
That old system died back under Bill Clinton.
How do TANF benefits work?
The Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program provides temporary financial assistance for pregnant women and families with one or more dependent children. TANF provides financial assistance to help pay for food, shelter, utilities, and expenses other than medical.
The bulk of the grants in most states aren't even distributed as cash.The Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program provides temporary financial assistance for pregnant women and families with one or more dependent children. TANF provides financial assistance to help pay for food, shelter, utilities, and expenses other than medical.
And it isn't even funded at a high enough level to help all the people who qualify for it.
I'm not sure why so many people persist in believing that somehow they would be richer and pay less taxes if the government didn't provide generous social benefits to lazy ne'er do wells.
That old system died back under Bill Clinton.
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12-30-2021, 07:32 AM
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#5
12-30-2021, 07:38 AM
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#6
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
single mothers are the biggest failures at lifeI'm not sure why so many people persist in believing that somehow they would be richer and pay less taxes if the government didn't provide generous social benefits to lazy ne'er do wells.
.
.
camps for them tbh
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12-30-2021, 07:43 AM
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#7
Originally Posted By mgftp⏩
Welfare as a way of life is a lie.Because those poor people who refuse to work and live off your tax money should get chooses in how they spend it.
See first chart above: only 23% of families with children in poverty were receiving assistance as of 2019.
If you want to be mad about paying taxes that's cool, but your tax bill isn't high because or poor people. Poor adults with no children get *nothing* in most states, and even poor families with kids are most likely only receiving food stamps which aren't that amazing. TANF and housing assistance are both only funded at a level to cover roughly 1 in 5 of those who qualify.
Why do you think there are so many people sleeping in tents or living out of cars?
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12-30-2021, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
why is the tax bill high then?Welfare as a way of life is a lie.
See first chart above: only 23% of families with children in poverty were receiving assistance as of 2019.
If you want to be mad about paying taxes that's cool, but your tax bill isn't high because or poor people. Poor adults with no children get *nothing* in most states, and even poor families with kids are most likely only receiving food stamps which aren't that amazing. TANF and housing assistance are both only funded at a level to cover roughly 1 in 5 of those who qualify.
Why do you think there are so many people sleeping in tents or living out of cars?
See first chart above: only 23% of families with children in poverty were receiving assistance as of 2019.
If you want to be mad about paying taxes that's cool, but your tax bill isn't high because or poor people. Poor adults with no children get *nothing* in most states, and even poor families with kids are most likely only receiving food stamps which aren't that amazing. TANF and housing assistance are both only funded at a level to cover roughly 1 in 5 of those who qualify.
Why do you think there are so many people sleeping in tents or living out of cars?
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12-30-2021, 08:00 AM
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#9
Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Not sure about the validity of your "stats" but here is NY plenty of people get free housing, free food, then spending money on top of it. I see it every day with my job.Welfare as a way of life is a lie.
See first chart above: only 23% of families with children in poverty were receiving assistance as of 2019.
If you want to be mad about paying taxes that's cool, but your tax bill isn't high because or poor people. Poor adults with no children get *nothing* in most states, and even poor families with kids are most likely only receiving food stamps which aren't that amazing. TANF and housing assistance are both only funded at a level to cover roughly 1 in 5 of those who qualify.
Why do you think there are so many people sleeping in tents or living out of cars?
See first chart above: only 23% of families with children in poverty were receiving assistance as of 2019.
If you want to be mad about paying taxes that's cool, but your tax bill isn't high because or poor people. Poor adults with no children get *nothing* in most states, and even poor families with kids are most likely only receiving food stamps which aren't that amazing. TANF and housing assistance are both only funded at a level to cover roughly 1 in 5 of those who qualify.
Why do you think there are so many people sleeping in tents or living out of cars?
12-30-2021, 08:02 AM
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#10
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Not sure what the statistics actually show and I don't really care.Welfare as a way of life is a lie.
See first chart above: only 23% of families with children in poverty were receiving assistance as of 2019.
If you want to be mad about paying taxes that's cool, but your tax bill isn't high because or poor people. Poor adults with no children get *nothing* in most states, and even poor families with kids are most likely only receiving food stamps which aren't that amazing. TANF and housing assistance are both only funded at a level to cover roughly 1 in 5 of those who qualify.
Why do you think there are so many people sleeping in tents or living out of cars?
See first chart above: only 23% of families with children in poverty were receiving assistance as of 2019.
If you want to be mad about paying taxes that's cool, but your tax bill isn't high because or poor people. Poor adults with no children get *nothing* in most states, and even poor families with kids are most likely only receiving food stamps which aren't that amazing. TANF and housing assistance are both only funded at a level to cover roughly 1 in 5 of those who qualify.
Why do you think there are so many people sleeping in tents or living out of cars?
Here's my reality: in my hometown, the "stereotypes" are reality. We're filled with unmarried couples or single moms with several kids by different baby daddies. Dad works full time, mom stays home - you can see her pushing her kid down the street with her girlfriends in the middle of the day, and best believe they've got the latest iPhone and Nike's on their 1 year old. They claim every benefit under the sun, which they will qualify for because we don't report Dad living at home and we remain unmarried. They pull money out of the ATM with their EBT card and take their kids to McDonald's and buy cigarettes. They drive VW GTI's, Mitsubishi Evo X's, and the latest trend is lifted pickup trucks. The real fun part is standing behind them in line at Walmart or Giant and watching them unload two carts for Christmas and NYE parties - I'm talking lobster, steak, 6 cases of soda, etc. while my family buys what we can afford and uses the coupon - not that we're poverty level or anything, but it doesn't make it any less irritating.
So you think I give a sh*t what stats you googled? Or whether it's 23% and I'd only see an uptick of $3 on my tax return?
The real welfare system, when you stop looking at it on paper, is infuriating. I've had friends on it that genuinely needed it, but the MAJORITY are leaches with a lifetime of poor decisions and I know this first hand.
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12-30-2021, 08:10 AM
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#11
Originally Posted By mgftp⏩
If so then it is most likely a New York state thing, not a federal government thing which is what most people think of re:welfare.Not sure about the validity of your "stats" but here is NY plenty of people get free housing, free food, then spending money on top of it. I see it every day with my job.
If it chafes you should probably look at your state government. In most states AFAIK there are years long waiting lists for section 8 vouchers and income adjusted housing units.
Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
Federal? Lots of reasons, but generous social benefits for poor families with children isn't it. Said programs are modest and funding hasn't adjusted to keep up with need.why is the tax bill high then?
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12-30-2021, 08:14 AM
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#12
Originally Posted By PTzFree⏩
Okay.Not sure what the statistics actually show and I don't really care.
Here's my reality: in my hometown, the "stereotypes" are reality. We're filled with unmarried couples or single moms with several kids by different baby daddies. Dad works full time, mom stays home - you can see her pushing her kid down the street with her girlfriends in the middle of the day, and best believe they've got the latest iPhone and Nike's on their 1 year old. They claim every benefit under the sun, which they will qualify for because we don't report Dad living at home and we remain unmarried. They pull money out of the ATM with their EBT card and take their kids to McDonald's and buy cigarettes. They drive VW GTI's, Mitsubishi Evo X's, and the latest trend is lifted pickup trucks. The real fun part is standing behind them in line at Walmart or Giant and watching them unload two carts for Christmas and NYE parties - I'm talking lobster, steak, 6 cases of soda, etc. while my family buys what we can afford and uses the coupon - not that we're poverty level or anything, but it doesn't make it any less irritating.
So you think I give a sh*t what stats you googled? Or whether it's 23% and I'd only see an uptick of $3 on my tax return?
The real welfare system, when you stop looking at it on paper, is infuriating. I've had friends on it that genuinely needed it, but the MAJORITY are leaches with a lifetime of poor decisions and I know this first hand.
Here's my reality: in my hometown, the "stereotypes" are reality. We're filled with unmarried couples or single moms with several kids by different baby daddies. Dad works full time, mom stays home - you can see her pushing her kid down the street with her girlfriends in the middle of the day, and best believe they've got the latest iPhone and Nike's on their 1 year old. They claim every benefit under the sun, which they will qualify for because we don't report Dad living at home and we remain unmarried. They pull money out of the ATM with their EBT card and take their kids to McDonald's and buy cigarettes. They drive VW GTI's, Mitsubishi Evo X's, and the latest trend is lifted pickup trucks. The real fun part is standing behind them in line at Walmart or Giant and watching them unload two carts for Christmas and NYE parties - I'm talking lobster, steak, 6 cases of soda, etc. while my family buys what we can afford and uses the coupon - not that we're poverty level or anything, but it doesn't make it any less irritating.
So you think I give a sh*t what stats you googled? Or whether it's 23% and I'd only see an uptick of $3 on my tax return?
The real welfare system, when you stop looking at it on paper, is infuriating. I've had friends on it that genuinely needed it, but the MAJORITY are leaches with a lifetime of poor decisions and I know this first hand.
So there are some crummy people cheating the system where you live.
Report them if you are so salty.
You have to show all kinds of documentation regularly to remain qualified including bank statements.
Also, you can't get cash with and EBT card. Some state combine food stamps and cash benefits on one card and call it something else, but straight EBT is food only.
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12-30-2021, 08:14 AM
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#13
Originally Posted By katya422⏩
I live in the state with the highest taxes. See the correlation?If so then it is most likely a New York state thing, not a federal government thing which is what most people think of re:welfare.
If it chafes you should probably look at your state government. In most states AFAIK there are years long waiting lists for section 8 vouchers and income adjusted housing units.
If it chafes you should probably look at your state government. In most states AFAIK there are years long waiting lists for section 8 vouchers and income adjusted housing units.
OP's suggestion makes sense. It's logical.
12-30-2021, 08:18 AM
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#14
Originally Posted By mgftp⏩
I understand that it seems that way. And I could maybe even see a centralized residential program working. But when it comes to giving people the help that they need there have been studies done and cash wins.I live in the state with the highest taxes. See the correlation?
OP's suggestion makes sense. It's logical.
OP's suggestion makes sense. It's logical.
There is a cost involved in transporting, warehousing, and distributing physical goods. By giving cash [or SNAP] those costs are borne by the retailer who passes them on to the recipient via higher prices. If the state gave goods directly then the state would carry those costs and would actually need to spend more money for said services + any waste/loss.
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12-30-2021, 08:20 AM
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A lot of druggies collect welfare and work tradie jobs under the table
12-30-2021, 08:22 AM
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#16
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Originally Posted By mgftp⏩
also, this trash in the USA needs to be centralised and heavily tech digitised so there is tracking and all thatOP's suggestion makes sense. It's logical.
centralised provisioning of clothes and food with an emphasis on keto healthy food to reduce obesity
alongside structured budgeting/financial advice/vulnerability-based scam avoidance/structure career advice
also incentives for joining vocational careers with huge manpower holes - police, nursing/allied healthcare
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12-30-2021, 08:23 AM
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#17
Originally Posted By katya422⏩
I don't agree. But thanks for sharing your opinion.I understand that it seems that way. And I could maybe even see a centralized residential program working. But when it comes to giving people the help that they need there have been studies done and cash wins.
There is a cost involved in transporting, warehousing, and distributing physical goods. By giving cash [or SNAP] those costs are borne by the retailer who passes them on to the recipient via higher prices. If the state gave goods directly then the state would carry those costs and would actually need to spend more money for said services + any waste/loss.
There is a cost involved in transporting, warehousing, and distributing physical goods. By giving cash [or SNAP] those costs are borne by the retailer who passes them on to the recipient via higher prices. If the state gave goods directly then the state would carry those costs and would actually need to spend more money for said services + any waste/loss.
12-30-2021, 08:26 AM
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#18
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
I see what you mean but I disagree on two pointsI understand that it seems that way. And I could maybe even see a centralized residential program working. But when it comes to giving people the help that they need there have been studies done and cash wins.
There is a cost involved in transporting, warehousing, and distributing physical goods. By giving cash [or SNAP] those costs are borne by the retailer who passes them on to the recipient via higher prices. If the state gave goods directly then the state would carry those costs and would actually need to spend more money for said services + any waste/loss.
There is a cost involved in transporting, warehousing, and distributing physical goods. By giving cash [or SNAP] those costs are borne by the retailer who passes them on to the recipient via higher prices. If the state gave goods directly then the state would carry those costs and would actually need to spend more money for said services + any waste/loss.
- giving the power to people prone to bad decisions the ultimate spending decision is wack
- large gov have a lot of spending power and can do joint ventures (amazing because giving out gov contracts to efficient private companies specialising in certain things is great)
join ventures between gov and large corporations to do this has been done in other instances quite sucessfully
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12-30-2021, 08:33 AM
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The fix to all this is cash stipends for anyone who gets a vasectomy or tubal ligation.
Vasectomy costs about $1500, say we give whoever willingly gets one before they have kids an extra $3.5k, that's $5k, which is less than 18 years of welfare.
Vasectomy costs about $1500, say we give whoever willingly gets one before they have kids an extra $3.5k, that's $5k, which is less than 18 years of welfare.
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12-30-2021, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
Don't you Yankee doodles spend a huge was on the largest prison population in the world, many of which are private but receive government funding, and also have the largest military expenditure the entire world?why is the tax bill high then?
It's not like you guys have free healthcare to pay for lol.. like most civilized countries. I swear it's one American per minute gets made medically bankrupt.
12-30-2021, 08:38 AM
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Because “providing utility” doesn’t lead to votes. Cash does.
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12-30-2021, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted By SuperHercules⏩
The funny thing is that you actually believe that, but you're the one covering your face lolEasier to buy votes with cash
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12-30-2021, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted By PapaPrime⏩
I live in London, UK, like you, and the welfare problem here is much worse than in the USA as per my points.Don't you Yankee doodles spend a huge was on the largest prison population in the world, many of which are private but receive government funding, and also have the largest military expenditure the entire world?
It's not like you guys have free healthcare to pay for lol.. like most civilized countries. I swear it's one American per minute gets made medically bankrupt.
It's not like you guys have free healthcare to pay for lol.. like most civilized countries. I swear it's one American per minute gets made medically bankrupt.
I just use USA terms because the vast majority of people on here are Walmart Anglos.
UK healthcare is not free, it costs high-earning individuals a lot. It also costs the middle-class guy in terms of waiting times up to 2 years for necessary surgery. I call that an uncivilised human rights abuse.
And cash benefits in the UK make people live their fat obese life for generations on the dole.
But forget about military budgets etc and all of your subhuman assumptions, I am simply questioning why the spending decision should be given to vulnerable people. People fall on hard times - I totally get it. Enablement can be achieved through utility.
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12-30-2021, 09:40 AM
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#24
Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
It would be a very big job to allocate resources effectively across a wide range of personal needs.I see what you mean but I disagree on two points
- giving the power to people prone to bad decisions the ultimate spending decision is wack
- large gov have a lot of spending power and can do joint ventures (amazing because giving out gov contracts to efficient private companies specialising in certain things is great)
join ventures between gov and large corporations to do this has been done in other instances quite sucessfully
- giving the power to people prone to bad decisions the ultimate spending decision is wack
- large gov have a lot of spending power and can do joint ventures (amazing because giving out gov contracts to efficient private companies specialising in certain things is great)
join ventures between gov and large corporations to do this has been done in other instances quite sucessfully
As to a joint venture the only obvious partners are also the companies with the largest market presence [monopolies or close].
I suppose that the government could decide to only give needy people cards that work at Wal-mart and Amazon with the stipulation that the companies would only accept those payments for food, clothing, medicine/vitamins and would not accept them for alcohol, cigarettes, or expensive electronics.
That would overcome the logistics issue. But it would also take that money away from other smaller/local businesses.
Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
I have ZERO problem with paying people to self-sterilize. I'm not even bothered much by requiring those receiving benefits *because they have children* to be on some type of long term birth control or to have a surgical procedure in order to continue to receive benefits.The fix to all this is cash stipends for anyone who gets a vasectomy or tubal ligation.
Vasectomy costs about $1500, say we give whoever willingly gets one before they have kids an extra $3.5k, that's $5k, which is less than 18 years of welfare.
Vasectomy costs about $1500, say we give whoever willingly gets one before they have kids an extra $3.5k, that's $5k, which is less than 18 years of welfare.
Because I think it is totally understandable that someone who has children could be in okay financial condition might experience some kind of big change in income. I don't support the idea of paying people to have more babies so that they can get more money.
Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
The UK is very different. Not sure how accurate this is but it was a quick find. Says the UK spends over half of their total budget on health, welfare, and education:I live in London, UK, like you, and the welfare problem here is much worse than in the USA as per my points.
I just use USA terms because the vast majority of people on here are Walmart Anglos.
UK healthcare is not free, it costs high-earning individuals a lot. It also costs the middle-class guy in terms of waiting times up to 2 years for necessary surgery. I call that an uncivilised human rights abuse.
And cash benefits in the UK make people live their fat obese life for generations on the dole.
But forget about military budgets etc and all of your subhuman assumptions, I am simply questioning why the spending decision should be given to vulnerable people. People fall on hard times - I totally get it. Enablement can be achieved through utility.
I just use USA terms because the vast majority of people on here are Walmart Anglos.
UK healthcare is not free, it costs high-earning individuals a lot. It also costs the middle-class guy in terms of waiting times up to 2 years for necessary surgery. I call that an uncivilised human rights abuse.
And cash benefits in the UK make people live their fat obese life for generations on the dole.
But forget about military budgets etc and all of your subhuman assumptions, I am simply questioning why the spending decision should be given to vulnerable people. People fall on hard times - I totally get it. Enablement can be achieved through utility.
Welfare looks to be near a quarter of the budget:
If you add up all of the "welfare" from the US budget above including the Earned Income Credit, SNAP, TANF, Housing Assistance, SSI [disabled], Children's Medical Insurance and the Child Tax Credit it only makes up 5.2% of the total budget.
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12-30-2021, 09:48 AM
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12-30-2021, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
"personal needs" is such a selfish termIt would be a very big job to allocate resources effectively across a wide range of personal needs.
That would overcome the logistics issue. But it would also take that money away from other smaller/local businesses.
That would overcome the logistics issue. But it would also take that money away from other smaller/local businesses.
if you are out of work with no savings you need the bare minimum necessities to function
smaller local business come with higher prices
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muslim after you get married
12-30-2021, 10:00 AM
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#27
Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
Personal needs isn't a selfish term, it's just a recognition that "one size fits all" is a lie."personal needs" is such a selfish term
if you are out of work with no savings you need the bare minimum necessities to function
smaller local business come with higher prices
a ****ton of Fruit of the Loom basic clothing necessity and food vouchers for pre-selected specific items fulfilling minimum vitamin protein and fat requirements
yes, no Gucci choice
yes, no lobster just frozen white fish
if you are out of work with no savings you need the bare minimum necessities to function
smaller local business come with higher prices
a ****ton of Fruit of the Loom basic clothing necessity and food vouchers for pre-selected specific items fulfilling minimum vitamin protein and fat requirements
yes, no Gucci choice
yes, no lobster just frozen white fish
There are tons of reasons that someone may *need* a different allotment of goods.
- IBS might need more underwear than socks bb
- food allergies are an actual thing for some people
- does someone in a hot climate need a new coat every year? swimsuit in a cold climate?
- if someone has a pet and want to use part of their $ to feed their pet should that be denied? gotta put Fido down because you lost your job?
I'm not advocating for lobster and Gucci, just saying that if you decided to give everyone the same physical goods that many of those goods would go to waste while at the same time there would be unmet needs.
INTP Crew
Inattentive ADD Crew
Mom That Miscs Crew
12-30-2021, 10:01 AM
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#28
Originally Posted By katya422⏩
This, there are clear disadvantages when you consider the high cost of logistics and incentive to broker deals with large corporations.It would be a very big job to allocate resources effectively across a wide range of personal needs.
As to a joint venture the only obvious partners are also the companies with the largest market presence [monopolies or close].
I suppose that the government could decide to only give needy people cards that work at Wal-mart and Amazon with the stipulation that the companies would only accept those payments for food, clothing, medicine/vitamins and would not accept them for alcohol, cigarettes, or expensive electronics.
That would overcome the logistics issue. But it would also take that money away from other smaller/local businesses.
As to a joint venture the only obvious partners are also the companies with the largest market presence [monopolies or close].
I suppose that the government could decide to only give needy people cards that work at Wal-mart and Amazon with the stipulation that the companies would only accept those payments for food, clothing, medicine/vitamins and would not accept them for alcohol, cigarettes, or expensive electronics.
That would overcome the logistics issue. But it would also take that money away from other smaller/local businesses.
𝕮𝖍𝖆𝖘𝖊 𝖆 𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖈𝕶, 𝖓𝖊𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖈𝖍𝖆𝖘𝖊 𝖆 𝖇𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍
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