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Inflation: Average Hourly Wage Only Increased 25 Cents In 48 Years
01-06-2022, 05:58 PM
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#61
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Late stage capitalism, there's no avoiding it until workers revolt
01-06-2022, 06:06 PM
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#62
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
I blamed the Fed for inflation in the first post.Yeah, but the disconnect most that is that the Fed intentionally causes inflation, which increases loss of business owners, not just laborers, but then the businesses owners are the ones blamed because they aren’t increasing wages of positions that already have little wiggle room. unskilled, uneducated, and inexperienced…these are positions for low output workers that the fed expects to get paid high output wages because of the inflation THEY created.
But yet, it’s capitalism that’s at fault, even though monetary manipulation by the federal government is not technically capitalism…
But yet, it’s capitalism that’s at fault, even though monetary manipulation by the federal government is not technically capitalism…
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Maybe it isn't possible to have a truly wise and benevolent government. IMO most of the harm done by government is short-sightedness and corruption.Bureaucrats would be out of a job if word got out they were doing more harm than good. They never look for the negative effects of their policies, only cherry pick the good. Thomas Sowell spent a year in politics before he realized he developed a reputation because, while attempting to find the truth, realized their work was doing great harm. He had to leave politics and got in to teaching instead
Secondary Education:
- governments were cutting funding for state colleges, scholarships, and grants
- in came student loans guaranteed by the federal government, not dis-chargeable in BK, not limited based on student qualifications or market value of the degree
- colleges have a lot more customers = increased demand
- colleges raise their tuitions/fees/etc.
- see handy chart above re: inflation of college tuition/textbooks
- massive student debt appears to be retarding the formation of families and purchases of homes
There is a lot of legislation that appears to do nothing but prevent new competition from entering the market. Or that gives an advantage to businesses over workers.- governments were cutting funding for state colleges, scholarships, and grants
- in came student loans guaranteed by the federal government, not dis-chargeable in BK, not limited based on student qualifications or market value of the degree
- colleges have a lot more customers = increased demand
- colleges raise their tuitions/fees/etc.
- see handy chart above re: inflation of college tuition/textbooks
- massive student debt appears to be retarding the formation of families and purchases of homes
I've said here before that if there is a need for H1B workers because the US doesn't have enough talented natives then the employers should be paying extra, not paying less. The extra fee they must pay because they are "unable to find qualified US workers" should be collected to fund scholarships to train Americans.
^^^
I think that is nationalism, not socialism. Putting the well being of your own citizens first.
I feel like this image didn't get much attention:
Your country's workers are ALSO your country's consumer market.If all employers "starve" their employees of discretionary income then you reduce consumption and capital formation.
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01-06-2022, 06:19 PM
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#63
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Originally Posted By nothingshocking⏩
LMAOI asked you to explain why the average factory worker deserved an increase in real wages. The fact that their wages kept pace with inflations means by definition that they are equitably compensated vs the base period.
Do you understand that every for profit business is in business to benefit it's owners?
The owners of a business do not take kindly to their CEO and CFO reappropriating their profits to benefit employees unless that reappropriation will provide some benefit greater than the cost spent.
Your comments are naive and idealistic.
Do you understand that every for profit business is in business to benefit it's owners?
The owners of a business do not take kindly to their CEO and CFO reappropriating their profits to benefit employees unless that reappropriation will provide some benefit greater than the cost spent.
Your comments are naive and idealistic.
>Thinks that Company executives deciding their own remuneration (let alone that of employees) is effectively controlled by dispersed non-institutional shareholders
>calls other people naive
Lmao
01-07-2022, 06:19 AM
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#64
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Originally Posted By r32gojirra⏩
I'm sorry you don't know what a board of directors is.LMAO
>Thinks that Company executives deciding their own remuneration (let alone that of employees) is effectively controlled by dispersed non-institutional shareholders
>calls other people naive
Lmao
>Thinks that Company executives deciding their own remuneration (let alone that of employees) is effectively controlled by dispersed non-institutional shareholders
>calls other people naive
Lmao
01-07-2022, 06:33 AM
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#65
01-07-2022, 06:38 AM
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#66
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Other things happened in that period too, Bretton woods and Nixon ending the gold standard.
Still funny how some miscers are still defending this type of capitalims while they're the ones getting fooked.
Meanwhile americans are poor as fck compared to western euros:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...alth_per_adult
Still funny how some miscers are still defending this type of capitalims while they're the ones getting fooked.
Meanwhile americans are poor as fck compared to western euros:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...alth_per_adult
01-07-2022, 08:20 AM
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#67
- EdwardTheGreat
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Originally Posted By Destor⏩
LOL this is 100% accurate for us office slaves. For the last 10years or so, I have done approximately 1 to 2 hours of work each day, rest of the time I have been reading or watching vids of all my interests. Walk 15 minutes to the gym, 1 hour later walk out for another 15 minute walk back. Then take my 1 hour lunch. I make just under $10,000 / month. LOL....fukkin lolAnd we have people clocking 8 hours a day but only doing a few hours of actual work
Maybe they should reduce working hours closer to what's actually required and increase rates so incomes stay roughly the same but with less hours on the clock
Maybe they should reduce working hours closer to what's actually required and increase rates so incomes stay roughly the same but with less hours on the clock
01-07-2022, 08:22 AM
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#68
01-07-2022, 08:27 AM
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#69
01-07-2022, 09:39 AM
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#70
Originally Posted By ****inator⏩
Interesting. Took me a minute. From the first chart it looks like North America is on top. But that second chart with median wealth though.Other things happened in that period too, Bretton woods and Nixon ending the gold standard.
Still funny how some miscers are still defending this type of capitalims while they're the ones getting fooked.
Meanwhile americans are poor as fck compared to western euros:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...alth_per_adult
Still funny how some miscers are still defending this type of capitalims while they're the ones getting fooked.
Meanwhile americans are poor as fck compared to western euros:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...alth_per_adult
US at #26 with median wealth at $79,274 [half with less, half with more] vs. the top 11 countries with median wealth over $130k. Canada around $126k and the UK at $131k.
An individual net worth of $130k puts you in the top 16% in the US vs. the top 50% in the top 11 countries.
https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.c...alculator-usa/
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01-07-2022, 09:46 AM
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#71
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Maybe if we stopped importing tons of low-wage earners we would see an increase in competition for hiring.
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01-07-2022, 09:48 AM
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#72
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How much should it have increased?
01-07-2022, 10:06 AM
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#73
This is not the fault of the Fed or inflation, no matter the environment, the money moves towards the intelligent.
If you know the value of labor is low and you choose to be a laborer then all this is your fault.
If you don't like your station seek an avenue of higher value to your desired destination.
Low sustained inflation is a good thing btw.
Low value can't understand this.
That's why they are low value.
Why do you expect someone to save you?
If you know the value of labor is low and you choose to be a laborer then all this is your fault.
If you don't like your station seek an avenue of higher value to your desired destination.
Low sustained inflation is a good thing btw.
Low value can't understand this.
That's why they are low value.
Why do you expect someone to save you?
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01-07-2022, 10:29 AM
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#74
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I'm not sure if I can agree with this, idk.
Most engineers have a medium income of $90k.
Most folks dealing with computers or IT have a medium income of $85k
Most folks with a business degree, not including management, have a medium income of $65k
Most folks with a math degree having a medium income of $90k.
The right position in the medical field and you'll have a medium income of $75k+
If ANYTHING, I think college tuition needs a dramatic overhaul. It's too expensive.
Most engineers have a medium income of $90k.
Most folks dealing with computers or IT have a medium income of $85k
Most folks with a business degree, not including management, have a medium income of $65k
Most folks with a math degree having a medium income of $90k.
The right position in the medical field and you'll have a medium income of $75k+
If ANYTHING, I think college tuition needs a dramatic overhaul. It's too expensive.
01-07-2022, 10:36 AM
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#75
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Not reading through all this, but approximately 1.5% of the US population makes minimum wage. That is down 12% from 1979 (the date in your OP). Wages/the buying power of the average worker is something to discuss/raise, but raising minimum wage is not the answer. I would argue it would mostly do nothing
01-07-2022, 11:01 AM
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#76
Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Couple things to consider. One is that the US does not count any welfare income as money income. This means that it is not counted when doing poverty analysis. In Socialist countries, Income from the government is accounted for, creating A discrepancy in comparisons. This is why China appears to have the lowest poverty.Interesting. Took me a minute. From the first chart it looks like North America is on top. But that second chart with median wealth though.
US at #26 with median wealth at $79,274 [half with less, half with more] vs. the top 11 countries with median wealth over $130k. Canada around $126k and the UK at $131k.
An individual net worth of $130k puts you in the top 16% in the US vs. the top 50% in the top 11 countries.
https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.c...alculator-usa/
US at #26 with median wealth at $79,274 [half with less, half with more] vs. the top 11 countries with median wealth over $130k. Canada around $126k and the UK at $131k.
An individual net worth of $130k puts you in the top 16% in the US vs. the top 50% in the top 11 countries.
https://www.thekickassentrepreneur.c...alculator-usa/
As for the wealth and median income, the discrepancy in the comparison there is that everything costs more in a more socialized country, like Canada and the UK.
Generally speaking, governments create the data according to their agenda. A socialist country wants to show themselves to be successful, so they account for all of the income from social programs, and in the case of China, there’s a lot more to cover up the real poverty. in the United States, the attempt to make capitalism look as if it’s failing, so they don’t consider social programs as “money income“.
Standard of living can be deceptive as well. It’s basically the same song and dance as the above.
In reality, the United States has one of the lowest poverty rates, best standards of living, invest median incomes on average, than any other country in the world. To make matters worse, the social programs within the United States certainly has made things worse. Poverty has gone up, unemployment has gone up, and although the standard of living has gone up, the acceleration of it has gone down dramatically
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
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01-07-2022, 11:05 AM
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#77
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I say we have whats called a livable wage.
Let it be by county, and the county does data polls to see roughly how can you not be homeless if you spend your money right and still afford to live in said county without being in poverty.
Businesses are taking in more profits than ever......they can afford to pay more, they just use min wage to not do so.
Let it be by county, and the county does data polls to see roughly how can you not be homeless if you spend your money right and still afford to live in said county without being in poverty.
Businesses are taking in more profits than ever......they can afford to pay more, they just use min wage to not do so.
01-07-2022, 11:21 AM
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#78
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Become an owner not a worker. Imagine, working for an hourly wage past your 20's?! Ouch.
01-07-2022, 11:27 AM
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#79
Originally Posted By JPF82⏩
They can afford to pay more sure but if they do it's going to limit the company's market valuation.I saw we have whats called a livable wage.
Let it be by county, and the county does data polls to see roughly how can you not be homeless if you spend your money right and still afford to live in said county without being in poverty.
Businesses are taking in more profits than ever......they can afford to pay more, they just use min wage to not do so.
Let it be by county, and the county does data polls to see roughly how can you not be homeless if you spend your money right and still afford to live in said county without being in poverty.
Businesses are taking in more profits than ever......they can afford to pay more, they just use min wage to not do so.
You might think, "So what AAPL is worth $3T", but you are not considering the big picture.
More than 50% of the population is invested either directly or indirectly.
More than half of U.S. households have some investment in the stock market
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-stock-market/
What do you think happens to the retirement accounts of hard working Americans in the event of large companies dropping in value?
What happens to the general economy from the "poor effect"? How is the job market? How much cash do you have left?
You can't let these companies fail because you fail too.
The "wealth effect" is the notion that when households become richer as a result of a rise in asset values, such as corporate stock prices or home values, they spend more and stimulate the broader economy.
https://www.nber.org/digest/aug19/ne...-wealth-effect
What does a recession do to the value of your house?
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01-07-2022, 11:28 AM
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#80
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Feminism
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01-07-2022, 11:37 AM
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#81
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Originally Posted By nothingshocking⏩
So what is your explanation for why CEOs and other execs have, in the same sentence, somehow increased their real and adjusted wages tremendously, while the people producing the services/products havent?I asked you to explain why the average factory worker deserved an increase in real wages. The fact that their wages kept pace with inflations means by definition that they are equitably compensated vs the base period.
Do you understand that every for profit business is in business to benefit it's owners?
The owners of a business do not take kindly to their CEO and CFO reappropriating their profits to benefit employees unless that reappropriation will provide some benefit greater than the cost spent.
Your comments are naive and idealistic.
Do you understand that every for profit business is in business to benefit it's owners?
The owners of a business do not take kindly to their CEO and CFO reappropriating their profits to benefit employees unless that reappropriation will provide some benefit greater than the cost spent.
Your comments are naive and idealistic.
It would seem if your argument makes sense, all individuals working for the company would see inflation adjusted wages proportionally, with the rest going to ownership and shareholders.. which is NOT what we see...
Realistically, there is increased wealth and productivity, but certain "classes" have seen to monopolize these gains, while others havent at all, and it is not really a product of ownership only...
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01-07-2022, 11:45 AM
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#82
01-07-2022, 11:47 AM
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#83
Originally Posted By Redundanteater⏩
Have been on both sides of that. It's not all sunshine and rainbows.Become an owner not a worker. Imagine, working for an hourly wage past your 20's?! Ouch.
Imagine working a 2 years straight, 80 hour weeks, investing $200k, and having zero to show for it when you're done.
Owning your own business is typically a risk/reward and a lifestyle decision. Most people don't have what it takes to make it. Even those that do, often don't.
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01-07-2022, 11:47 AM
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#84
Originally Posted By FlexLex⏩
You don't get paid based on what the company makes, you get paid based on the value of labor.So what is your explanation for why CEOs and other execs have, in the same sentence, somehow increased their real and adjusted wages tremendously, while the people producing the services/products havent?
It would seem if your argument makes sense, all individuals working for the company would see inflation adjusted wages proportionally, with the rest going to ownership and shareholders.. which is NOT what we see...
Realistically, there is increased wealth and productivity, but certain "classes" have seen to monopolize these gains, while others havent at all, and it is not really a product of ownership only...
It would seem if your argument makes sense, all individuals working for the company would see inflation adjusted wages proportionally, with the rest going to ownership and shareholders.. which is NOT what we see...
Realistically, there is increased wealth and productivity, but certain "classes" have seen to monopolize these gains, while others havent at all, and it is not really a product of ownership only...
The value of labor is based in supply and demand unless gov gets involved.
This is why some jobs pay more than others.
Job seekers in New York may want to start considering applying for the city's Department of Sanitation (DSNY) after it was revealed thatnearly 100 of the department's garbage collectors and supervisors netted six-digit overtime pays last year, pushing some annual salaries close to $300,000, according to payroll...
https://www.ibtimes.com/94-nyc-garba...ot-pay-3356548
These trashmen aren't making $300K because they are skilled.
Originally Posted By lockdev⏩
Investing in the business of others is just like owning a business but without all the work.Have been on both sides of that. It's not all sunshine and rainbows.
Imagine working a 2 years straight, 80 hour weeks, investing $200k, and having zero to show for it when you're done.
Owning your own business is typically a risk/reward and a lifestyle decision. Most people don't have what it takes to make it. Even those that do, often don't.
Imagine working a 2 years straight, 80 hour weeks, investing $200k, and having zero to show for it when you're done.
Owning your own business is typically a risk/reward and a lifestyle decision. Most people don't have what it takes to make it. Even those that do, often don't.
You can own a piece of a business and still wage slave if you don't want to own.
I think we have something like that, I think it's called the stock market.
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01-07-2022, 12:23 PM
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#85
Originally Posted By FlexLex⏩
So your problem is with those responsible for inflation, not those that are influenced by the inflation.So what is your explanation for why CEOs and other execs have, in the same sentence, somehow increased their real and adjusted wages tremendously, while the people producing the services/products havent?
It would seem if your argument makes sense, all individuals working for the company would see inflation adjusted wages proportionally, with the rest going to ownership and shareholders.. which is NOT what we see...
Realistically, there is increased wealth and productivity, but certain "classes" have seen to monopolize these gains, while others havent at all, and it is not really a product of ownership only...
It would seem if your argument makes sense, all individuals working for the company would see inflation adjusted wages proportionally, with the rest going to ownership and shareholders.. which is NOT what we see...
Realistically, there is increased wealth and productivity, but certain "classes" have seen to monopolize these gains, while others havent at all, and it is not really a product of ownership only...
Just to add what Abzu has already stated, laborers don't produce anything except labor. They are not considered producers because the producers are the ones that own the business. They use innovation to discover what the consumers want and need, buy the raw materials, create the process that turns those raw materials in to goods, make great sacrifices and deal with losses, create/produce the positions and need for the labor...laborers only exchange their labor for compensation. If someone wants to increase the value of their labor, then they have two options,; become a producer, or become more educated, skilled, and experienced.
The value of a CEO is estimated based on what profit that he can make for the company. His/her job is HIGHLY valued because it means dramatically increasing the profit margin for the company. They are one of the key positions in innovation and implentation, something that almost no laborer could do. OTOH, if you were to dissolve the CEO's position and distribute his income among the workers, it would only come out to less than a dollar per hour per employee. Not to mention, if there was no CEO, then the profits that a CEO could make the company could never result in higher pay and more labor positions. Think of it like this, Amazon pays its workers $15 an hour because they can afford it. Their profits allow them to pay more to beat the competition for their needed labor. Small businesses, OTOH, cannot afford it, nor do small businesses have a CEO in most cases.
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01-08-2022, 05:24 AM
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#86
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Originally Posted By havoc00⏩
I know they don't want to eat like you do.Complete sham. Especially considering how far productivity has risen coupled with hours worked. News flash wealthy people don’t want you to eat like they do. You get crumbs.
01-08-2022, 05:26 AM
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#87
01-08-2022, 05:28 AM
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#88
Originally Posted By havoc00⏩
The labor is responsible for the increases in productivity?Complete sham. Especially considering how far productivity has risen coupled with hours worked. News flash wealthy people don’t want you to eat like they do. You get crumbs.
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01-08-2022, 06:38 AM
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#89
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Imagine signing up to trade hours of your life for money and letting some ******* decide:
-how much he will pay you for that hour of effort
-ther conditions under which he will pay you that amount
-the length of time for which he sees fit to continue that arrangement
Lmao
Cucked
Lmao.
I’m sorry that you don’t understand the limitations of liability and the short-term incentives of the board
https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...h-hiring-ceos/
-how much he will pay you for that hour of effort
-ther conditions under which he will pay you that amount
-the length of time for which he sees fit to continue that arrangement
Lmao
Cucked
Originally Posted By nothingshocking⏩
Yeah. Yeah I do. And in most western jurisdictions they are legally obliged to pursue the “best interests of the company” as they see it; and no direct duty to the shareholders.I'm sorry you don't know what a board of directors is.
Lmao.
I’m sorry that you don’t understand the limitations of liability and the short-term incentives of the board
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Lol. The rise of the “celebrity CEO”. They don’t add more value than the 10th candidate in line. But they receive ten times the remuneration. Lol at thinking company boards recruit efficiently.So your problem is with those responsible for inflation, not those that are influenced by the inflation.
Just to add what Abzu has already stated, laborers don't produce anything except labor. They are not considered producers because the producers are the ones that own the business. They use innovation to discover what the consumers want and need, buy the raw materials, create the process that turns those raw materials in to goods, make great sacrifices and deal with losses, create/produce the positions and need for the labor...laborers only exchange their labor for compensation. If someone wants to increase the value of their labor, then they have two options,; become a producer, or become more educated, skilled, and experienced.
The value of a CEO is estimated based on what profit that he can make for the company. His/her job is HIGHLY valued because it means dramatically increasing the profit margin for the company. They are one of the key positions in innovation and implentation, something that almost no laborer could do. OTOH, if you were to dissolve the CEO's position and distribute his income among the workers, it would only come out to less than a dollar per hour per employee. Not to mention, if there was no CEO, then the profits that a CEO could make the company could never result in higher pay and more labor positions. Think of it like this, Amazon pays its workers $15 an hour because they can afford it. Their profits allow them to pay more to beat the competition for their needed labor. Small businesses, OTOH, cannot afford it, nor do small businesses have a CEO in most cases.
Just to add what Abzu has already stated, laborers don't produce anything except labor. They are not considered producers because the producers are the ones that own the business. They use innovation to discover what the consumers want and need, buy the raw materials, create the process that turns those raw materials in to goods, make great sacrifices and deal with losses, create/produce the positions and need for the labor...laborers only exchange their labor for compensation. If someone wants to increase the value of their labor, then they have two options,; become a producer, or become more educated, skilled, and experienced.
The value of a CEO is estimated based on what profit that he can make for the company. His/her job is HIGHLY valued because it means dramatically increasing the profit margin for the company. They are one of the key positions in innovation and implentation, something that almost no laborer could do. OTOH, if you were to dissolve the CEO's position and distribute his income among the workers, it would only come out to less than a dollar per hour per employee. Not to mention, if there was no CEO, then the profits that a CEO could make the company could never result in higher pay and more labor positions. Think of it like this, Amazon pays its workers $15 an hour because they can afford it. Their profits allow them to pay more to beat the competition for their needed labor. Small businesses, OTOH, cannot afford it, nor do small businesses have a CEO in most cases.
https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...h-hiring-ceos/
01-08-2022, 06:43 AM
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#90
Wages in this country are a joke. I'm a CPA and when I started, my starting wage was the same starting wage as those hired 10 years earlier. Today, its $2k a higher.
| ♫Audiophile♫ | To ∞ & → | The Ohio State University Alumni |
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