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Forum » Bible God ordering the death of children and babies?
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Thread: Bible God ordering the death of children and babies?

post 1665695203 08-07-2022, 10:47 AM
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post 1665695683 08-07-2022, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
What a strange response to my post. There is basically no content here responding to what I wrote. So for the record, you do think infants/children, even from enemy nations, should be put down like rabid dogs, or not? And if so, what exactly is the connection of an infant to a rabid dog?
Good chance those children/infants were going to be sacrificed to Moloch or another foreign god. God is all knowing, and knows the future of these people and the life these children have before them..I do not believe God sends children to hell however, but I do not claim to be God, so I cannot give a definitive answer to that question. I would think that if these children grew up, they would continue in their idolatry and try to oppress God's people, spreading their ways of life and effecting the rest of the world..God put an end to this before it grew that their carnal ways effected the entire world..

You can see what is happening today, and clearly we are are worse then what was taking place back then in the way we kill children...we still sacrifice to Moloch..infact we celebrate and hold parades in the street proclaiming our right too..and society embraces it.
post 1665696033 08-07-2022, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted By Deathstroke⏩
Abraham passed the test. I believe it an example of where god says anyone who loveth their mother or father (and I think said their children aswell) is not worthy of god. Honor they mother and father. Discipline your children for in their heart is folly but the rod will drive it from them. But never put them ahead of god. Or you’re not worthy of him.

So it was a test of Abe’s love for god. Serve as a case of love for him that we all are supposed to have.

Yeah those who love anyone in their family over god is not worthy of him, and if they take that to their death, will not be written in the lambs book of life.

Hard to do, but deal with it I suppose!
I mean when OP makes a point about the specific command to kill Amalekite children in 1 Samuel, post vague unrelated religious posts like this I guess? Your posts in here really havent addressed what the OP is pointing out in his post. As an aside, Abe's test of tempting him to kill his son doesnt really help the case for the nature of God (what exactlyisthat nature btw, since in other places in the bible it says God does not tempt man, yet here he is tempting Abraham)- maybe it's God who is the one, if thats really his nature, who isnt worthy of man's attention. But regardless of all this.....evidence for literally any of this?

The commandment to kill children and infants in the OP is pretty perplexing. (however it's not if these were just texts written by men local in time and place to the middle east some 2500 years ago...it's to be expected with the local moral codes and ethics at the time). But it's basically almost exactly what you see in this scene from Star Wars Revenge of the Sith (skip to 2:20)



"Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy".

The Jedi are the Amalekite, and palpatine wants them exterminated. In a following scene Vader fulfills his order and wipes out the younglings in the jedi temple. The kicker here is...in Star Wars the figure giving the command is theemperor, as evil as can be. This is God in the bible doing the same thing. It is rather ironic, as it shows Star Wars has a better grasp on morality, making the antagonist evil figure the one giving such orders, which is the type of figure you'd expect such orders to come from (can you imagine Yoda or Obi-Wan saying "wipe them out.....all of them. All the infants and children too". In the bible, however, itsGodgiving this order. If anything this illustrates how concepts of morality have changed in 2500 years.
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post 1665696493 08-07-2022, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted By Paul
Good chance those children/infants were going to be sacrificed to Moloch or another foreign god. God is all knowing, and knows the future of these people and the life these children have before them..I do not believe God sends children to hell however, but I do not claim to be God, so I cannot give a definitive answer to that question. I would think that if these children grew up, they would continue in their idolatry and try to oppress God's people, spreading their ways of life and effecting the rest of the world..God put an end to this before it grew that their carnal ways effected the entire world..

You can see what is happening today, and clearly we are are worse then what was taking place back then in the way we kill children...we still sacrifice to Moloch..infact we celebrate and hold parades in the street proclaiming our right too..and society embraces it.
If you are trying to argue that infants and children should be killed, sorry Im not in agreement Again, in modern, civilized times, targeting the killing of infants and children even in times of war is (rightfully) considered a war crime. Saying..'er they will all become idolatrous' (these are gymnastics) does not excuse it. The children did nothing wrong. If you are trying to argue God just is killing every last one because he has infinite wisdom and knows what will become of them (wow that would be remarkable, every last one of them), then it makes you wonder why God is not having that done for all kinds of people born all the time who grow up to be infamously evil, from serial killers to all kinds criminals and historical dictators etc. I keep saying God here, important to remember that nothing here is actually evidenced.

No, what we have here is just a contrast of different concepts of morality, from what men local to middle eastern tribes thought would have been appropriate for a God to say as a commandment....to how many people in modern times are rightfully perplexed by such passages.
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post 1665697413 08-07-2022, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
If you are trying to argue that infants and children should be killed, sorry Im not in agreement Again, in modern, civilized times, targeting the killing of infants and children even in times of war is (rightfully) considered a war crime. Saying..'er they will all become idolatrous' (these are gymnastics) does not excuse it. The children did nothing wrong. If you are trying to argue God just is killing every last one because he has infinite wisdom and knows what will become of them (wow that would be remarkable, every last one of them), then it makes you wonder why God is not having that done for all kinds of people born all the time who grow up to be infamously evil, from serial killers to all kinds criminals and historical dictators etc. I keep saying God here, important to remember that nothing here is actually evidenced.

No, what we have here is just a contrast of different concepts of morality, from what men local to middle eastern tribes thought would have been appropriate for a God to say as a commandment....to how many people in modern times are rightfully perplexed by such passages.
If you could travel back in time and kill toddler Hitler would you do it?
post 1665697653 08-07-2022, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
I mean when OP makes a point about the specific command to kill Amalekite children in 1 Samuel, post vague unrelated religious posts like this I guess? Your posts in here really havent addressed what the OP is pointing out in his post. As an aside, Abe's test of tempting him to kill his son doesnt really help the case for the nature of God (what exactlyisthat nature btw, since in other places in the bible it says God does not tempt man, yet here he is tempting Abraham)- maybe it's God who is the one, if thats really his nature, who isnt worthy of man's attention. But regardless of all this.....evidence for literally any of this?

The commandment to kill children and infants in the OP is pretty perplexing. (however it's not if these were just texts written by men local in time and place to the middle east some 2500 years ago...it's to be expected with the local moral codes and ethics at the time). But it's basically almost exactly what you see in this scene from Star Wars Revenge of the Sith (skip to 2:20)



"Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy".

The Jedi are the Amalekite, and palpatine wants them exterminated. In a following scene Vader fulfills his order and wipes out the younglings in the jedi temple. The kicker here is...in Star Wars the figure giving the command is theemperor, as evil as can be. This is God in the bible doing the same thing. It is rather ironic, as it shows Star Wars has a better grasp on morality, making the antagonist evil figure the one giving such orders, which is the type of figure you'd expect such orders to come from (can you imagine Yoda or Obi-Wan saying "wipe them out.....all of them. All the infants and children too". In the bible, however, itsGodgiving this order. If anything this illustrates how concepts of morality have changed in 2500 years.
I thought Abraham being told to sacrifice his son was on topic shrug 🤷‍♀️.

I just don’t feel qualified to answer it because I can’t comprehend gods reasoning there. Could’ve been to prevent something worse occurring that would involve them when they would grow up. Sometimes he chooses to take them when they’re too young and innocent to know wrong. Of course that Is Just speculation. I can’t believe there’d be any malice behind it. In the end I don’t know. I can’t explain everything in the Bible. I just seen Abraham brought up so I responded to that story. And I tried to say earlier itt in my own surly way that I don’t agree with the Sunday school or alter preachers and trenchers who pick out the good verses but hide or refuse to address the ugly parts of it. It’s not all peace, and love, and forgiveness. Such is life and the Bible reflects that. In short I have no answer for that part in the op.

I’m familiar with the galaxy far far away.
post 1665697843 08-07-2022, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
If you are trying to argue that infants and children should be killed, sorry Im not in agreement Again, in modern, civilized times, targeting the killing of infants and children even in times of war is (rightfully) considered a war crime. Saying..'er they will all become idolatrous' (these are gymnastics) does not excuse it. The children did nothing wrong. If you are trying to argue God just is killing every last one because he has infinite wisdom and knows what will become of them (wow that would be remarkable, every last one of them), then it makes you wonder why God is not having that done for all kinds of people born all the time who grow up to be infamously evil, from serial killers to all kinds criminals and historical dictators etc. I keep saying God here, important to remember that nothing here is actually evidenced.

No, what we have here is just a contrast of different concepts of morality, from what men local to middle eastern tribes thought would have been appropriate for a God to say as a commandment....to how many people in modern times are rightfully perplexed by such passages.
" If you are trying to argue God just is killing every last one because he has infinite wisdom and knows what will become of them (wow that would be remarkable, every last one of them), then it makes you wonder why God is not having that done for all kinds of people born all the time who grow up to be infamously evil, from serial killers to all kinds criminals and historical dictators etc..."


In my limited knowledge..this is what I believe..and again..I am not God so I do not pretend to know what He does..I just know He is far wiser than me..
Why does God not kill people today..?
He promised that He would not destroy until His return after the Flood..he used the Rainbow as a symbol of His promise..now people have taken that symbol and made it something to pridefully show their carnality spitting in the face of God, as if to say..look, watch how we defile ourselves and you promised not to flood the Earth again.

God gives the gift of Free Will, but He will return, and this time, it will not be as a sacrificial lamb here to give Himself and serve others..it will be with a sword..and we are far too deserving of facing that judgement..far more than the worshipers of Moloch
post 1665698433 08-07-2022, 11:52 AM
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And who are you to judge God?
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post 1665698613 08-07-2022, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted By Deathstroke⏩
I thought Abraham being told to sacrifice his son was on topic shrug ‍♀️.

I just don’t feel qualified to answer it because I can’t comprehend gods reasoning there.Could’ve been to prevent something worse occurring that would involve them when they would grow up. Sometimes he chooses to take them when they’re too young and innocent to know wrong. Of course that Is Just speculation. I can’t believe there’d be any malice behind it. In the end I don’t know. I can’t explain everything in the Bible. I just seen Abraham brought up so I responded to that story. And I tried to say earlier itt in my own surly way that I don’t agree with the Sunday school or alter preachers and trenchers who pick out the good verses but hide or refuse to address the ugly parts of it. It’s not all peace, and love, and forgiveness. Such is life and the Bible reflects that. In short I have no answer for that part in the op.

I’m familiar with the galaxy far far away.
This is the problem I have in arguing scripture so I really don't even bother myself. I recognize that the high ground can never be achieved with regards to logic. It goes both ways though. How can preachers go on with authority trying to interpret God's reasoning and telling us all how to live? If they're incorrect it leads down some very bad consequences for both sides.
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post 1665698803 08-07-2022, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted By Johnez⏩
This is the problem I have in arguing scripture so I really don't even bother myself. It goes both ways though. How can preachers go on with authority trying to interpret God's reasoning and telling us all how to live? If they're incorrect it leads down some very bad consequences for both sides.
Thats why it is not through Men that we find the blessings of God rain upon us. It is through him and him alone. The scripture is the closest thing you can ever get to the Lord
post 1665699383 08-07-2022, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
Don't think you started reading the Bible, but probably went on some atheist website or pro life site and started cherry picking verses...
WTF? I even bought the bible to read it?

post 1665701903 08-07-2022, 01:04 PM
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John 3:16, Romans 6:23
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post 1665704573 08-07-2022, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted By superman704⏩
And who are you to judge God?
Exactly.

From my understanding there’s two schools of thought when it comes to the Israelite/Amalekites story.

1. The story is allegorical, and a story to demonstrate that living like this world, like a person’s pagan neighbors will lead to death for all who live it and separate from God.

2. If literal, that life is a gift from God and it is within his right to take it. (Which could be an allegorical perspective as well)

I suppose then since there are many possible meanings this story could be polyvalent.
post 1665706383 08-07-2022, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By XiangYu⏩
WTF? I even bought the bible to read it?

so out of everything you have read thus far..it just so happens that this is the concern you have while abortion is a hot topic..mmkaay

Honestly, if you are looking for answers, pray first..even if you don't believe, ask for proof, just at least be sincere when you pray. Then start with the Gospel of John and read through that, Acts and Paul's Epistles (letters)..then go back and read from Genesis on.


edit-looks like a Hotel Bible. srs
post 1665709053 08-07-2022, 03:08 PM
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post 1665711383 08-07-2022, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted By MuscleXtreme⏩
Exactly.

From my understanding there’s two schools of thought when it comes to the Israelite/Amalekites story.

1. The story is allegorical, and a story to demonstrate that living like this world, like a person’s pagan neighbors will lead to death for all who live it and separate from God.

2. If literal, that life is a gift from God and it is within his right to take it. (Which could be an allegorical perspective as well)

I suppose then since there are many possible meanings this story could be polyvalent.
Makes perfect sense to me.
post 1665712043 08-07-2022, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By XiangYu⏩
I started reading the bible some weeks ago for fun.
I am in Book Samuel now and I just read Samuel 15:3 where god orders the death of babies.

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

I never heard any priest tell about this in church service when I was a teenager lol.
Do people just ignore the darker parts and focus on the brighter stuff?
The Old Testament is a vivid illustration of Gods wrath for disobedience.
Yeah he ordered the death of the children but can babies goto hell? No

Always funny how non religious split hairs. This shouldn’t be a problem to anyone whose pro choice.

“God is so mean!”

God is just. You worship idols? you willingly ignore him? and offer your children up to idols anyway? He’ll punish you eventually.
post 1665712393 08-07-2022, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
so out of everything you have read thus far..it just so happens that this is the concern you have while abortion is a hot topic..mmkaay

Honestly, if you are looking for answers, pray first..even if you don't believe, ask for proof, just at least be sincere when you pray. Then start with the Gospel of John and read through that, Acts and Paul's Epistles (letters)..then go back and read from Genesis on.
Also this op.

I genuinely hope you’re looking for answers

God says the Bible is a sword. He designed it in a way where if you approach it disingenuously it’ll push you farther away. If you approach it with a genuine heart to know God, the words and the truth will come to life.

I’ll pray for you
post 1665712823 08-07-2022, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted By TheAdlerian⏩
Stop saying "BIBLE GOD" and say "Jewish God" because that's what it is.

When you get to the Jesus part, he says even thinking negative thoughts about others is a sin.
Isn't the God of the O.T. Jesus?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1665713313 08-07-2022, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Isn't the God of the O.T. Jesus?
Yes, Adlerian proving once again he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.

I know I'm ignorant of many things, but I'll always be honest in my ignorance
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Originally Posted By Paul
so out of everything you have read thus far..it just so happens that this is the concern you have while abortion is a hot topic..mmkaay
edit-looks like a Hotel Bible. srs
Are you retarded? Is it so hard to believe that someone might actually read the bible? LOL
It is not a hotel bible I bought it here:
https://www.cbuch.de/schlachter-2000...d-schwarz.html
post 1665735633 08-08-2022, 02:47 AM
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A lot of low iq in this thread. Always disgusting to see some soulless npc beings judging God’s actions according to their own npc wishy washy principles.
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post 1665735683 08-08-2022, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted By superman704⏩
And who are you to judge God?
If the Bible is to be believed then he is a complete kunt. A mass murdering racial supremacist psycho in favour of incest, ****philia, rape, slavery, torture etc.

If he isn't really that much of a kunt he should sue the writers of the Bible, like Johnny Depp with Amber Heard.
post 1665735733 08-08-2022, 02:59 AM
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On the positive side, at least God looks after us baldcels.

Miscers beware!
Originally Posted By 2
23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
post 1665740773 08-08-2022, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted By Johnez⏩
One of the reasons I don't believe in "God" of the Bible. He also ordered the massacre of 3000 people in Exodus. He "tested" Abraham by instructing him to kill his own son and also tested Job later. It's not the actions really, but the pettiness of it all that makes me disbelieve. Job's story is interesting but good luck getting people on board with believing in God while suffering when there is literally jack chit for evidence of God anywhere except in 2000 year old dusty texts cobbled together and selected as "divine." Also brb God cares whether you mix fabrics or eat certain types of meats. LMAO. Ridiculous.
I'm very much into ancient History and did some research into human sacrifice. There are arguments that the incident with Isaac was a rebrand which introduced 'substitute sacrifice' (where an animal takes the place of a person). The premise of this works on the religion of that time moving away and becoming more distinct from other religions where this was still done.

There's an interesting parallel in the myth of Iphigenia (a Greek princess). She was sacrificed in order that the Greeks could sail to Troy but in later versions of the myth the Greeks have her swapped at the last minute for a deer. That's been seen as a way of the Greeks both tidying up the issue and moving from what may have been practised in certain instances in earlier times.
post 1665740893 08-08-2022, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Isn't the God of the O.T. Jesus?
No.

He comes into the picture and says all the stuff about killing people and revenge is over.

Most religious people are taught to not actually read the book but to mindlessly pick quotes out of it. Books have a story that starts on page one and then changes by the end. With the Bible, James says not to do anything in the OT at the end.
If you want to ask me a question:

Ask: TheAdlerian

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post 1665746633 08-08-2022, 09:00 AM
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#57
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Originally Posted By Deathstroke⏩
I thought Abraham being told to sacrifice his son was on topic shrug ������‍♀️.

I just don’t feel qualified to answer it because I can’t comprehend gods reasoning there. Could’ve been to prevent something worse occurring that would involve them when they would grow up. Sometimes he chooses to take them when they’re too young and innocent to know wrong. Of course that Is Just speculation. I can’t believe there’d be any malice behind it. In the end I don’t know. I can’t explain everything in the Bible. I just seen Abraham brought up so I responded to that story. And I tried to say earlier itt in my own surly way that I don’t agree with the Sunday school or alter preachers and trenchers who pick out the good verses but hide or refuse to address the ugly parts of it. It’s not all peace, and love, and forgiveness. Such is life and the Bible reflects that. In short I have no answer for that part in the op.

I’m familiar with the galaxy far far away.
Dont you think it's telling that the literal evil emperor in Star Wars is giving the same commandment here as God in the bible? The commandment- to target children and infants for slaughter- is morally repugnant to many in today's world, especially within international codes of war [again this is considered awar crime]......I say to most, because obviously not to some miscers ITT (smdh).

Of course it's easy for you to sit there, comfortably not having been slaughtered as an infant under the commandment of a god*, and say cheerfully 'well ehhhhh bible can be rough in places, them's the cards, just how it is, thats God, the end!"....but your tune would be quite different if you were a kid who did nothing wrong being slaughtered. So would anyone else's ITT who are defending the perplexing passages, such as Paul, who is comparing kids and infants to rabid dogs. He wouldbeone of those "rabid dogs" if he just happened to be born an Amalekite (whatever that is, history doesnt support this tribe), something he has no control over, and slaughtered (and surely would have a different stance on the topic).

Again very telling: in Star Wars if Yoda or Obi-Wan came out and said in a Jedi Council meeting....."We need to wipe out the Bothans, each and every last one of them. Including the children and infants". The audience would be like......."uhh what?" [because no one expects the good guys to say something like that and it would be a weird as hell line]. But here we are...where the main character of the bible [God] is giving the same exact commandment. Smh.

*: again, nothing in these stories is evidenced and most of this almost certainly didnt happen in actual history.
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post 1665747053 08-08-2022, 09:08 AM
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#58
  1. miscerForLulz
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Originally Posted By TheAdlerian⏩
No.

He comes into the picture and says all the stuff about killing people and revenge is over.

Most religious people are taught to not actually read the book but to mindlessly pick quotes out of it. Books have a story that starts on page one and then changes by the end. With the Bible, James says not to do anything in the OT at the end.
So Jesus isn't God? And who is the one who brought down the 5 books to Moses?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1665747093 08-08-2022, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted By Paul
In my limited knowledge..this is what I believe..and again..I am not God so I do not pretend to know what He does..I just know He is far wiser than me..
Why does God not kill people today..?
He promised that He would not destroy until His return after the Flood..he used the Rainbow as a symbol of His promise..now people have taken that symbol and made it something to pridefully show their carnality spitting in the face of God, as if to say..look, watch how we defile ourselves and you promised not to flood the Earth again.

God gives the gift of Free Will, but He will return, and this time, it will not be as a sacrificial lamb here to give Himself and serve others..it will be with a sword..and we are far too deserving of facing that judgement..far more than the worshipers of Moloch
1 Samuel is after the Flood events of Genesis. Also rainbows are refractions and reflections of sunlight in water droplets in the atmosphere- they have been around for as long as there was liquid water on earth and a water cycle- probably not that long after earth formed [about 4.5 billion years ago] and temps were cool enough to allow precipitation. This, as always, is just physical matter doing its thing. Rainbows did not originate with some covenant after a flood [a flood btw which is not supported whatsoever by the geologic or historical evidence, and especially the biological evidence].

Free will is a nonsensical concept but off topic....as for the returning and all that...evidence for literally any of this? That's all that matters, and it's not supported by any evidence.
Originally Posted By Basiliskboy⏩
The Old Testament is a vivid illustration of Gods wrath for disobedience.
Yeah he ordered the death of the children but can babies goto hell? No

Always funny how non religious split hairs. This shouldn’t be a problem to anyone whose pro choice.

“God is so mean!”

God is just. You worship idols? you willingly ignore him? and offer your children up to idols anyway? He’ll punish you eventually.
Split hairs? A benevolent god of the universe issuing commands to wipe out and exterminate infants and children.....what? That's a pretty big deal if you want to analyze these books for the moral framework they present [which is suspiciously exactly what some local middle eastern tribe might come up wih 2500 years ago, and not from some timeless god of the universe].

So your point is essentially: "yeah so what, he ordered deaths of babies and children...but SNAP, babies and children cant go to hell. All good!". Do you honestly not see how bizarre and ridiculous this is. Not all good for the children it seems...if you were one of the children being slaughtered you'd presumably have a larger issue with it. According to this nonsensical stance, there'd be no issue with the killing of children since hey...they dont go to hell after all, snap! [a fantasy world of which there is no evidence]. Oh wait...that would be a horrific crime and at times of war, a war crime.
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post 1665748843 08-08-2022, 09:44 AM
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#60
  1. TheAdlerian
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
So Jesus isn't God? And who is the one who brought down the 5 books to Moses?
Please, shut the f@CK up.
If you want to ask me a question:

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http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=150655983&p=1000366043#post1000366043

Read my science fiction novel:

http://www.amazon.com/Echelon-Adlerian-ebook/dp/B00RCFFTKC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419640250&sr=8-1&keywords=Echelon+the+adlerian
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