So why are you their yes man?

You think covid was deliberate? Have you seen how they are dealing with it?

The deaths to covid are our own fault. China sequenced the virus and gave it to us and warned us it was airborne while we pretended it was droplet.

I'm not. Maybe read my R&P Russia posts before you assume you know my stance on things?

Why hello, how can I/we serve you?

Well:You made the comment ITT, and still haven't answered - I'm certain you're a true expert on U.S. foreign policy (especially sanctions policy), right? Given the way you portray yourself here.And you - it's clear from your posts (and others') in this thread that you just see things as a partisan stooge. Look at my previous post, check the Iran part, check Trump's role viz. the JCPOA, then come talk to me about 'globohomo' whatever it is you keep spamming across these forums, mental midget that you are.

I'll wait.

It came from China.

Spouting neolib/neocon talking points is not a "dose of reality." It is being a neolib/neocon propagandist.

"the Global West sets the tune to which the rest of the world dances" That is almost the exact quote from John Bolton, right? I think he used "America and its allies" instead of "global west."

Read the Russia/Ukraine threads. I can't be bothered to type it all out again.

It's not worth getting sucked in by these chitty alts...

yeah, you're right lol

I did below but I am going let that troll go on his way.

Russia's own Ambassador to the United Nations uses the phrase "global west", as does China's.

Remember what I said about "partisan stooge"? At least familiarize yourself with the foreign policies of the countries in question here before spouting your partisan garbage. And try reading posts in full. I mean, jesus lol.You have nothing to contribute, and do the same thing. You don't even spout chitty partisan points, just constantly chit post. Huzzah? lmao.

Why did you neg though?

Ok? so the Russian ambassador used it? what does it have to do with my point that you are repeating a Bolton talking point and he used another term. I think you are confused here.

I am familiar with foreign policy of other countries (to a certain extent and with certain ones) but you are absolutely not. That is why you are confused and repeating neolib/neocon talking points. also being aggressive when spouting propaganda does not make it real or more believable.

Now, run along troll I am not interested.

just neg them and move on. once the alt goes red they've been abandoning it for a new one

you are correct.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cleveland33 again.

In on srt.

Cleveland negged me for no reason though srs

I am not repeating anyone's talking points, in particular on sanctions. You engaged withnothingin my post, and instead tried to do the old "talking points!!" Did you even read what I wrote on Trump viz Iran, or did that fly over your head like a stealth bomber as well?

Russia's Ambassadorusesthat phrase, and so does China's, and they have since long before the Libya crisis. So when you say you're "familiar with the foreign policy of other countries", you absolutely are not. Here, with me, you're completely out of your depth. I'm using a term used in international affairs since well before Bolton ever used it, so your point fails here as well.

And here we are, so far absolutely 0 engagement with the substance of my post. "Derp August, Derp propaganda, derp talking points". That's it? From the self-proclaimed experts in international affairs, and international sanctions policy? Yikes.

TLDR is the war is materially about Russia preserving access to the Black Sea, morally about protecting the Russian Ukrainians in the Donbass, Crimea, and Southern Ukraine, and strategically about halting the expansion of NATO. The war was largely provoked by the United States when we helped foment and provided material aid to a coup that ousted the constitutionally elected leader of Ukraine, Yanukovych, in 2014. Ukrainian politics had become increasingly divisive by that point, and ultranationalist/fascist movements had strongly influenced the politics of the country, leading to discriminatory laws against ethnic Russians. The ethnic Russians of Crimea declared independence and then voted to be annexed by Russia. Those in Lugansk and Donetsk wanted independence as well. The Ukrainian nationalists formed militias to fight the separatists. This initiated the war in Donbass. Putin tried 29 times for ceasefires over a period of 8 years. Ukraine agreed to terms of talks twice in Minsk, and both times, they failed to implement the agreements. Trump began arming Ukraine in 2017. Zelensky was elected on a platform for peace in 2019, but had his life threatened by nationalists. Poroshenko is on record saying he never intended to implement Minsk 2, and instead wanted to use the agreement to buy time to build up the Ukrainian military. Biden doubled down on Trump's decision to arm Ukraine, providing even more military aid. Faced with this situation, Putin was on a timer and had no choice but to preempt. The US foreign policy goal of this war is to contain Russia and carry out regime change in Russia.

If you understand anything about history and military strategy, you'll understand Putin's decision. That it was an "unprovoked invasion" is a bold faced lie. That Putin is a revanchist seeking to rebuild the USSR is also a bold faced lie, evident by the lack of conventional military buildup by Russia and RAND's own reporting on Russia's military capabilities. Russia would have needed to invade with 5x as many troops to conquer all of Ukraine. That is clearly not his objective. The assault on Kiev was to try to quickly force a surrender.

You want evidence? Go look at the leaked Macron-Putin call. Go look at Zelensky's video of him with an Azov leader trying to implement a ceasefire and read how members of parliament threatened his life if he made any peace deal. Go look at what Jack Matlock, John Mearsheimer, Jeff Sachs, and Stephen Cohen have to say about the build up to the war in Donbass as well as NATO expansion itself. Go look at the leaked Nuland call where the US was plotting who would lead Ukraine and fomenting the coup. Go look at when Sens. Graham, Klobuchar, and McCain visited the rebels and encouraged them. Go read about the Crimean war to understand the strategic importance of the Black Sea. Go read about the collapse of the USSR. Also, read the back story on Libya and what happened to Gaddafi and how it relates to Russia and Putin. Also, go read what Michael McFaul has to say about Putin and where it all went wrong and why he is banned from their country. Go read the laws the Ukrainian nationalists passed. Go look at how they praise Bandera and Shukhevych, and read about their histories. Also read about holodomor and the history of Ukraine and the USSR to understand context here for the anticommunist movement.

Let's be clear here: if there's a misunderstanding of causality it is from your corner.

When you write:This is both hyperbole, and factually incorrect?

Ifyouunderstood anything, you would have mentioned the role of the OSCE's Special Monitoring Mission in Ukraine. And never, ever written "Putin tried...". You don't seem to understand anything about the implementation of Minsk, from the legitimacy or otherwise of attempts at prisoner exchange, to the border skirmishes (and who initiated - it was not only UA), and so on. Nor do you seem to understand that the European Union's sanctions from then are tied to the full implementation of the Minsk Agreement.

Even what you write about "pre-empting", that holds true for the energy restrictions, because it was clear that the EU was going to slap sanctions on the Russian Federation in any case. Yet the mental midgets here (the Russian plebs) write "daddy Putin cut the gas and Europeans will freeze" don't seem to understand the causality there either: that the EU was going to do it anyway. Regardless, so that remains the normative and salient point.

As in the past, when Trump pulled the U.S out of the JCPOA, he advocated for more sanctions again on Iran to pressure them into further compliance with international rule of law: the ballistic missile tests that aren't covered by the JCPOA itself. So why are mental midgets here now talking about "globohomo" this, and whatever, because sanctions are being used (effectively) as a tool again?

Even when you write "Ukrainian nationalists" in that way; even the first use of "Nazis" - are you aware that it was Russia talking about Nazis in Maidan square?

So do the persons who think they're so 'in tune' here, accusing me of 'quoting X talking points', really not realize you're spouting Russian propaganda? I mean, let me guess - the OPCW is fully corrupt, there never were any chemical weapons or precursors in Syria right? Nothing at all! The OPCW lied, manipulated by "the west", and Assad never used chemical weapons? This is what Russia says in the UN Security Council. But great for Putin right? The USA should turn a blind eye to international peace and security because...this is Ukraine's fault? It's Syria's fault? For Christ's sake.

If you had the tiniest understanding here, wincel, you'd understand. I wonder what sources of info spread that sort of information to buttfukk, nowhere, USA.

Wincel, are you playing both sides here with two alts arguing? I think you are lol

It's factually correct and literally a matter of record. You're aware Poroshenko never intended to implement Minsk 2, right? Putin was on a timer. Ukraine would have made a military alliance with the US, empowered their military, and retaken Crimea and the Donbass by force. He waited 8 fuking years. If he were the Hitler you think he is, he would have attacked in 2014, when he had an overwhelming advantage.

Yeah and how did that work out? Tell me what message we sent to the world when we tore up the JCPOA?

Are you aware that Russia was telling the truth?

Hey retard,



Is AP Russian propaganda? They can't erase everything, buddy.

It's not propaganda if it's true. I don't believe a word out of anyone's mouth regarding Syria, considering we armed Al Nusra and also sat idly by and watched ISIS attack Damascus just to put pressure on Assad (a fact confirmed from Kerry's leaked call). Spare me the bullchit.

What international peace and security? The country that has most threatened that security in the last 3 decades is the United States by fuking miles.

Putin, as leader of Russia, had no other play here. And btw, we knew this. The endgame here is regime change in Russia or aggressive containment. We wanted this. It was planned. Brought to you by the same sons of bitches from PNAC who brought us every other disaster in the Middle East.

Are you sure? You sure seem to be, same with the other mental midgets, like this guy:Who can't engage on substance at all, or you yourself:Looking to rep trade. But as I said:And here you are again. Zio-troll? Because I advocated for Iran's economy beingcollapsedby the European Union? Try to keep up, pleb. You're not really "better than" anyone, just a low IQ troll embarrassing yourself further post after post.

Ok Wincel.

Why would you want Iran's economy to collapse? Is the Iranian government not brutal enough for you? You want Persian hitler or something resembling ISIS to come out of Iran next?

Crimea has been illegally annexed under international law. And that move was to prevent Ukraine's self-proclaimed aspirations to NATO, because a territorial dispute in an applicant state prohibits their entry. See Georgia for another example (Abkhazia and South Ossetia). He didn't need to do more than that - annex Crimea for energy claims, and undermine the territorial integrity of the country through East Ukraine. MH17 was a nice touch as well, but we can come back to that later.
Furthermore, you have proven nothing: you claim that Putin made consistent attempts and legitimate ones to implement Minsk, and I'm saying they did not. That's the important element here, and there's nothing you could add to prove it, hence why you ignore the role of the OSCE SMM (which Russia signed up to, FYI).The USA cannot 'tear up the JCPOA', Trump simply withdrew it from the agreement. The message sent was: do more, because Iran was conducting ballistic missile threats where Trump was trying to build - effectively - peace in the middle east. You're aware that there are DPRK sanctions for ballistic missile tests too, right? That it's hard to negotiate a diplomatic settlement in those conditions? I mean, there's some sophistication to this, which your post is bereft of.Nationalist != not Nazi, I mean are you aware of what Nazis are? That Germany LAUGHS OUT LOUD at the UN at Russia, as does the entire world (not even China supports them) when they make the Nazi claim? So when you write:To show a march, it's about as legitimate as when Russia claimed that "Russian speakers were under threat" and passed last minute legislation in 2014 to "protect Russian speakers abroad", I mean, what? You don't understand the slightest here about Ukraine.Putting pressure on a country through diplomatic means/channels == invading it and annexing part of its territory? Again, on the bullchit - you're the one who needs to convince, not me. You're the champion for these folks, apparently - who are so blinded by partisan nonsense they can't even see what is happening around them. And you fail, because you make the same propaganda based leap from "march" to "proof of Naziism".

It's so cringe when Americans from buttf*ck nowhere talk Nazi, don't you realize that? F'n yikes.*chuckles*. And how many Americans cried when Trump called for NATO reform (inb4 - he didn't do it diplomatically tho!) and to withdraw from international organizations (WHO)? America first, remember? Get with the program.

get help

maybe try men

To confuse me with wincel? What an insult.It was needed, along with the Presidential elections in 2013 where the negotiators on Iran's side stopped using interpreters and...spoke English. Some of whom were educated in the English speaking West at some of our best schools. Who seemed far more amenable to a future for Iran that didn't involve those sanctions, or the IRGC's burning American flags and so on. You're aware that when the JCPOA was adopted, Iranian kids chanted "USA! USA!" in the street, right?

That Trump wanted to re-negotiate the terms to include ballistic missile tests made sense, and when that wasn't possible the EU adopted more sanctions against Iran to target that behavior.

Sanctions are one of the best foreign policy tools to use, when used right. And Trump was perhaps the only US President in the last long while who could have exerted enough pressure on the Korean peninsula to make the DPRK back down, since clearly China won't.

take it easy man. stop being such an asshat to everyone

Crimeans voted to fuking leave. Crimea is overwhelmingly ethnically Russian. And as far as I'm concerned, Ukrainian sovereignty ended when they had a fuking coup. People have the right to self determination. Not just Ukrainian nationalists, but the people of Crimea do too. They shouldn't have to endure racist laws suppressing their ability to speak their language or have to sit through revisionist history teaching them that a genocidal nazi maniac is some kind of national hero.

Putin benefited greatly from Minsk 2, and honestly, it would have avoided this war.

The message sent was that the US cannot honor an agreement for longer than 4 years.

They are literally nazis, guy. They are ideological descendants of Bandera and Shukhevych. They wear the swastika and wolfsangel, are hyper nationalist, despise all aspects of communism, glorify Hitler, and are very focused on ethnic purity. They literally carry tiki torches and march in the night, guy. Hello? If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a fuking duck. There are multiple documentaries on neonazi movements in Ukraine going decades back. They are influential -- far more influential than Al Qaeda was on the Taliban, for some perspective on casus belli. Again, look at the laws the Ukrainians passed. These are Ukrainian government laws restricting the rights of ethnic Russians. Tell me what that is. Tell me what "derussification" is, and how they can sit and dress it up as anything other than them trying to build an ethnostate.

OK explain these







Russian speakers were under threat. Look at the laws passed, retard.



short version:



We arm terrorists and nazis to overthrow governments. Stop being in denial. This is what we do.

No those are real nazis. Card carrying, Mein Kampf praising, Hitler saluting, white supremacist nazi pieces of chit, bro.

Trump is a fuking moron, evidenced by the fact that he chose to arm Ukraine (probably convinced and tricked by the foreign policy establishment) while simultaneously trying to dismantle NATO. Explain what the logic is of doing both. Sadly, Trump is our best hope right now because he is so disruptive to our foreign policy establishment. We need an end to the conflict in Ukraine. A negotiated settlement is mandatory before Russia escalates and more Ukrainians die horribly. We need either Trump or Bernie, and we need to see the foreign policy establishment ousted from power. They are fuking dangerous to humanity.

I'm sorry she doesn't like you, maybe you should look internally as to why