It's a real virus period. It can't just be real for old and immunocompromised. They make up most of who died, but the virus clearly exists. Stop being a moron. It's not disingenuous. Check the fuking excess deaths.

And them being old or immunocompromised doesn't excuse acting so irresponsibly. Children with organ donations are immunocompromised. Bet if it were your kid, you'd give a chit. It's just selfish, juvenile behavior.

first time was just a regular flu, fine in a few days. second time was some absolutely sickening ****, body aches for days, literally bed ridden. crazy temperatures. think it took me two/three weeks to get better? my parents were vaxxed though and they got better in a week. could be that old people immune system just better than mine. i guess i should say any time i even get a mild flu/cough i just blame it on covid now though lmao. so i might not even have it heeeheee.yeah i never really got out of laziness mainly and not worrying too much. i mean i still don't think it's that covid is that bad for most people but yeah, like you said cba with all those symptoms. gotta weight out the pros and cons.

saying "that's complete bs" isn't an argument.

as for delta killing unvaccinated, plenty of vaccinated people also died from delta at nearly the same rate as the unvaccinated, per UK data. i looked into that while it was happening, it was absolutely ridiculous that the USA was claiming 99% of people hospitalized for covid were unvaccinated. from a statistical perspective the chance of something in nature happening 99% of the time is ridiculous. maybe if they had said something like 74%, 79%, 83%, 88%, 91%, it would've had more credibility.

you can't seriously buy this as a counter-argument. really? they start with:come on man lol this isn't a solid argument. because a variant was first detected in July and last detected in December, that makes it implausible that it caused a sharp peak? this person provides literally ZERO justification for that. i mean that's how exponential growth works ffs... something grows at a rate that at first seems slow and then hits critical mass and explodes.yes and COVID affects the vascular system

they end by saying:even though i strongly disagree with that, it's at least a less definitive statement than "there is only one explanation".

if you truly buy their argument that, because Delta began in July and ended in December, a sharp peak of deaths doesn't make sense, and therefore it's the vaccine, you do you. i don't really understand how someone can buy that argument, especially since they've presented zero epidemiological evidence to back it up, but that's your call.

the caveat to what you're saying is that people were dying of a clear alternate cause yet the hospitals would test everyone for covid regardless of symptoms and even if they had a false positive or they tested positive after death despite dying of something else, they marked it as a covid death. complete lunacy.i just posted a screenshot of the chief medical officer in LA county confirming that most covid deaths are not due to covid. there are even videos of doctors still on youtube that have said the same thing a year ago which i can pull up. there are even articles from hospitals revising their death count lower after recounting.

sorry to burst your bubble, but it is just real for old and immunocompromised. the only other people dying from this are extreme outliers, either they're in terrible health at a young age or they have some vulnerability to the virus. the vast majority (99.7%+) survive it.

You can look at the literature they cite.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm

If you think it is all bs, there is no convincing you. At this point, it's just a faith for people. You've already decided that the virus is somehow better than the vaccine. Nobody will ever be able to convince you otherwise.

I can't believe the cope

Yes its a real virus LOL

And its been proven time and time again the vaccine will not stop you from getting sick, everyone I know who's "vaxxed" "boosted" "triple boosted" etc still got it and WORSE than me...

I've had true vaccinations such as tetanus etc but I'm not putting an experimental drug that doesn't have any long term studies into my body...

you are correct, that line about plateau vs peak is suspect. i need to look into that a bit more.

Newsflash retard, most of America is in "terrible health". Wow the people who survive it survive. Amazing. Let's adopt your model of public health and just let everybody die.

It's a stupid discussion. What is your position? The virus doesn't matter and the vaccines are somehow toxic and even worse than the virus? All the studies are wrong except the fringe ones from the idiots you post. Ok. Great. I'm vaccinated. I'm still going to take precautions when cases are high. And IDGAF what you or the media say. Until I see overwhelming evidence (which is what it has to be at this point considering the data we have), I'm going to proceed. You guys can piss and moan and attack things all you want. It doesn't change reality. You cannot manufacture the fuking truth. I wish both parties understood this and fuked off.

i could certainly read that article and come to some type of conclusion, but since the CDC has been damn near wrong on everything, i'm not sure it's worth the time.

there are so many caveats to the whole vaccinated vs unvaccinated line of thinking..

1) what counts as vaccinated? 14 days after second dose? the official documents from Pfizer show that immunity to COVID is actually decreased immediately after vaccination which is why a lot of people got sick after getting the vaccine, which led to their illness/death. this actually happened to a family member of mine. he avoided getting sick until a week after he was vaccinated.

i could ask you a very simple question that i would love the answer to, because nobody has been able to answer it.

the survival rate for the unvaccinated sits at 99%+.

to what degree are vaccines increasing that survival rate?

this would be a valid counter-argument if the centerpiece of the claim was based on testing done in hospitals, but the vast majority of cases do not result in hospitalizations, therefore, the huge peak in Delta cases you see in Sept 2021 is not based on testing people in hospitals, it is based on mostly at home or outpatient tests for people who felt sick. therefore, we know that Delta peaked in sept 2021, regardless of what hospitals were doing, so it's reasonable to posit that deaths from delta also peaked then

the counter-argument that hospital admissions always came with a covid test and therefore increased "covid deaths" may not actually imply a true COVID peak would only be a good argument if the majority of that registered peak actually came from hospital admission testing, but it didn't.

I didn't say read the article. I said read the primary literature they cite.


You can calculate that yourself. Check the relative risk ratios. It's simple math. But you don't know how to do it do you? And it is also going to be specific to the strain you're talking about. The answer you're fishing for is that survival rate barely increases in absolute terms. That's not the point. The point is that given that you are vaccinated, you are less likely to get severely ill and die, which is contrary to the bs you are peddling. If you understood statistics, you'd understand the difference between this and the probability that you die.

Just come out and say you don't think the vaccines are safe, that you don't believe covid killed that many people, and that the vast majority of the medical community is lying to you except for a few key individuals. And also admit you had zero interest in epidemiology or life sciences before this debacle, but now suddenly take it super srsly.

It's a complete waste of life to even bother at this point. Once something is politicized, all rational thought disappears and it just becomes my team vs your team.

i absolutely understand how relative risk reduction and absolute risk reduction work, and how to calculate them (this is basic statistics for someone in highschool). pfizer initially claimed 94% relative risk reduction and 0.84% absolute risk reduction. i am in STEM by trade.

you yourself claim the survival rate barely increase in absolute terms. if that is the case, why vaccinate?

if i am skydiving and my parachute has a 99.7% chance of deploying, why would i bother adding on something that introduces additional risk that outweighs the risk mitigation of that additional item?

let's use the swiss cheese model for example.

in order to die from covid

1) you have to, in the majority of cases, be old
2) you have to, in the majority of cases, be immunocompromised
3) you have to be exposed to someone who is infected from covid
4) that person has to interact with you
5) you have to inhale enough viral load to actually get sick
6) your immune system, combined with medications, has to fail badly enough for hospital admission
7) you have to be doing so badly that you don't recover in the hospital

in order to die from the vaccine

1) you have to inject yourself with the vaccine

I already told you why. The vaccines were far less dangerous than the virus according to empirical evidence. I knew the virus was airborne and likely to spread rapidly. I decided it was in my best interest to get vaccinated. I saw the data for 2 doses and decided that was good. I didn't bother with the booster.

You're already assuming the vaccine doesn't mitigate the problems of the virus when it does. The evidence shows it does.

in old and compromised people? sure!

but how do you know the vaccine did anything for people who had an extremely high chance of survival to begin with?

98% of the posts ITT is Wincel arguing with himself. srs

Because they got less severely ill and also were not sick for as long. You seem to want to ignore all the data on that too.

what kind of data quantifies duration of illness and illness severity, symptomwise?

Check the numerous studies on it. People were monitoring viral titers and exhaled amounts of the virus. There were studies done on this. No I'm not gonna waste my time dealing with sealion chit. Google it.