Uh yeah. I do. Wanna know why?

Who cares? Dmitry Utkin running the Wagner Group is an indisputable fact, Putincel. Why are you supporting Neo-Nazis?

"If you don't live in a certain place you can't have different political opinions than me!"

Keep crying

Nice projection. You’re trying to brush past mass fcking graves filled with Ukrainians because a couple tattoos is SO much more important.

What's with all of the Ukie supporters, who don't even live in Ukraine?How so? At no point was I involved in that discussion topic, nor have I ever responded to you itt. It seems like you're trying to distract from him peddling blatant disinformation.

Quoting something no one even said, phucktard. Comical.

Mass graves filled with foreigners is a Russian specialty. They did it to the Polish and then denied it for over 50 years.

Why are you quoting wincel?

Waiting for proof. Remember Ghost of Kiev? Truth is the first casualty of war.

You mean like what Ukrainians do when they deny Shukhevych murdering hundreds of thousands of Poles?

Spare us. Vatnik is trying to dodge it with fcking tattoos and you chimed in as a third party “calling out” another re: his dodge.

Can you stop spamming the misc with the same thread please

Google “Ukraine mass graves.” There are too many sources for me to even attempt to quote them all.

Not dodging anything. Already gave my comment on that.

You're aware there are multiple topics being discussed simultaneously itt? I'm not sure why you seem to think you're the arbiter of which ones I should be responding to.

440 is not a mass grave for a warzone. 440 dead bodies is what you'd expect in a fuking war. Maybe you don't fully understand wars or how many people fuking die. But it isn't like Call of Duty. You see, in war, civilians die. There is no law. Women get raped. Kids get butchered. There is no justice in war. There is nothing righteous or glorious about war. It's a disgusting practice. It should be avoided whenever and wherever possible. When one party waits 8 years and tries 29 times to avoid it, the other should fuking agree. They shouldn't pass laws marginalizing their own people and fueling tensions to create these conditions. And a global superpower shouldn't sit there and egg them on like Mrs. Nuland did in the videos I linked. This entire war could have and should have been avoided. War is absolute hell. And it only gets worse from here. This could get really fuking bad. I mean REALLY fuking bad. WMDs could be used. The war could last decades. We have no idea how this goes. And rather than try to put the fire out, our country is fanning the flames.

All I can say is buddy if you're broken over 440 dead, I don't think you're going to like where this war goes. There are already over 50,000 casualties in this war, and it's just barely begun.

I’m aware you’re trying to focus attention on tats rather than Russian war crimes. Yes.

Fuking deranged.

Itt: vatniks trying to relativise/deny civilian mass graves while trying to somehow paint a picture where this is the fault of ukrainian neo nazis that are led by a jewish guy.

Fuking coddled. Are you aware of how many people we have killed in our wars? Are you new to this planet? What exactly do you think happens in war?

On some level he’s right - atrocities are going to happen in war.

Where he goes into absolute fcking loonie toons evil land is that he keeps trying to pretend the guy fcking prosecuting this senseless war is somehow the good guy.

Trying to deny approximately 440 corpses as being a mass grave is fuking sickening. Get another hobby, fuktard.

There is, always that.

There is no "good guy". That's a totally ridiculous way to look at the situation. Putin is head of state of Russia. He has a duty to act in his country's best interests, and he can be expected to take rational actions to ensure the security of his country. We provoked him and put him on a timer. This is what happens. If we really cared to avoid wars, we wouldn't be so fuking god damn reckless. Russians don't give a chit about human rights. At least not the way most of the west pretends to. They come from a brutal country with a long history of conflict and suffering. We know exactly what creates a man like Putin, and we knew exactly how far he would go. We knew what would happen here. And we still did it anyway. What does that say about us?

Do you go fuk with bears and then flip out when it rips your arm off? What did you think would happen?Nice spin. This isn't reddit. You won't get any gold medals for the strawman outrage olympics.

After vatniks argued for several pages that the elderly couple who were blown away by an AFV opened fire with a missile launcher, this really is just par for the course.

LOL

Your Ucranian Nazi pals in that grave too?

Do Nazis buy life insurance?

Sucks mate. Learn to be democratic and a pacifist

Some charity flooding is coming their way though

This is the difference between liberalism and realism. Realists are always acutely and painfully aware of the possibility that friends can become bitter enemies, that any number of things can happen, and that armageddon is only a few bad decisions away. Liberals, on the other hand, will sit and point to their international systems and quibble over the finer points of whether x or y was legal or not. But as everyone knows, telling someone x is illegal has never stopped people from doing it when they felt some deep urge or need to do so. Realists understand this. Liberals, for whatever reason, like to believe in a fair and happy sunshine world where there are clearcut definitions of good and evil and everyone agrees. Russians have moral, strategic, and material causes for this war. You may not agree with them, but that is how they see it. It was in their interests to act preemptively since Ukraine was being armed. They acted. Whether it is legal or right or whatever else you want to talk about is a purely American construct that has absolutely zero to do with reality. It happened. To liberals, NATO is a defensive alliance, and Ukraine has a right to do whatever it wants. To a realist, they examine the game, realize Russia is fully capable of something like this, and say "HEY! SLOW DOWN!" Realists use caution and restraint because they are driven by fear and uncertainty. Liberals tend to provoke conflict and create wars because they are driven to impose their standards of what is just or legal upon others who come from entirely different cultures and do not see it their way. Peace, in its very nature, is necessarily disrupted by liberals.

Liberal hegemony, which is what we have pushed, is doomed to cause tragedy like this and undermines our own national security interests.

That's why to me, a committed realist, this is nowhere near as bad as it can get. Because I know there is little deterring Russia from just going absolutely batchit if they start losing. And if that happens, 440 dead will be a fuking good day. Remember WW1 and WW2. Don't ever forget how bad chit can get. Our arrogant foreign policy brought us here. If we had never emboldened Ukraine, and had instead insisted they seek peace and guaranteed we would back them only if they did so, we could have secured peace in the region and mended relations with both Ukraine and Russia. Instead, we were hell bent on designating someone "the good guy" and our own interpretation of "good" and "evil" to rationalize our position. In doing so, we have carelessly allowed tens of thousands of Ukrainians to die.

And btw, all the moral rhetoric is just dressing. This war was always intended to isolate, contain, and collapse Russia. We set this chit up to get this response. You can see by the RAND analysis posted earlier ITT about ways to disrupt Russia. Literally every single way is being done simultaneously by the US.

Casualties of the war on terror is almost a million people. Now that's a lot of graves!

Vatnik “America is to blame for everything, nobody else is responsible for their actions or has any agency.”

It’s like a trope of the self-hating, hugely self-important, braindead liberal type that gives the rest of us a bad name.

And if you are Wincel, again, this is disgusting. Sort yourself out.

You give yourself a "bad name", no one else needs to do it on your behalf.