Jesus was before Abraham..

Gen 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

Rev 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”


John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Did Abraham know he was saved..? IDK..we read in Genesis 15:6 “Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.”



The second part..you are spot on

Not sure how Gen 1:26 applies if you can elaborate.

Rev 1:8, so does this mean Jesus and the Father are both the same in their abilities and powers? Are they both all knowing, all powerful, both the greatest?

John 1:1 (although using the N.T. isn't a valid source brah since I'm asking before Jesus)

Read John 1:1 in Greek.
Look at the instances of the word "God" in the verse in Greek and you will see they aren't the same word. Part of the issue of translation. Satin is called God in the Bible (and the same word as Jesus; however the word for God for the Father was different). What does God mean in context? Is Satin also "God"?

And don't believe what I say on John 1:1; do your own study and research.

Second part on uh evolution?

I am in the process of working through this, however, so far I have come to the conclusion that Adam was similar to Christ. Adam walked with God, flew among the birds and was close to nature; all of God’s creations. I believe it’s God’s will to get us back to a state similar to Adam, and He showed us the way through Christ. Although Christ IS God, he is of flesh and bone. He talks with and walks with God like Adam did. This is an indication that man can once again have a close relationship to God

The problem is that man lost his way from Adam by tremendous leaps and bounds and man no longer knows God like Adam did, and man lost the capability to get back to that place, which is the Garden, aka, the Utopia on Earth and in heaven. Christ came to show us the path again.

Edit; do you know what Christ said about where Adam went wrong? He shouldn’t have followed Eve, he should have stomped the head of the snake and killed it.

Gen 1:26-God is speaking to Jesus here, for we are made inGod's image, not in anyone else's, we are told to be "Christ like". He is not speaking to angels or anyone/thing else because we are made in the Image of God..not angels.

Rev 1:8- Yes, Jesus and God are the same, in abilities, knowledge, and all aspects. Realize that it is Jesus speaking in 1:8 and the same words are stated in Revelation 22:13..in which God The Father is speaking. The only reason The Jews sought to kill Jesus was because, He set Himself equal to the Father.

7 times Jesus said "I Am'..which to the Jews (I was raised Jewish btw) means only one thing..The Lord is speaking..

John 8:58
“Jesus answered them: 'I solemnly declare it: before Abraham came to be, I AM.” [This was the name God gave himself when he first communicated with Moses, Exodus 3:14 “God replied, 'I am who am. ' Then he added, 'This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you.

And Jesus said to them, "I Am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." -John 6:35

"I Am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." -John 10:9

"I Am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep." -John 10:11

Jesus said to her, "I Am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" -John 11:25, 26

etc.

John 1:1-In Greek the Word for God is Ho Theos..which is used throughout the NT as the main word For God..The main name for God in the New Testament is "Ho Theos", from the Greek noun for “God.” This name occurs more than 1,000 times in the New Testament. Theos (minus the Ho) can mean “god” or “goddess,” so it was also used as a general name for false deities

Theos
Θεὸς
God

N-NMS
1510 [e]
ēn
ἦν
was

V-IIA-3S
3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
the

Art-NMS
3056 [e]
Logos
Λόγος

Word
N-NMS


https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-1.htm

The problem with that is that Adam sinned, Christ did not. Adam was a man, Christ though came AS a man, was and is God. Think of it as you committing a crime and in court the judge sentences you to a penalty for that crime. You are unable to pay that penalty, but the judge, which happens to be your father, comes down, takes off his robe, and pays the fine for you. This is what Christ did in a sense. He took off and set aside His "godliness" to walk amongst us and die for us, so that we may have everlasting life with Him..for we cannot attain it without Him, as the penalty for sin is death.

Adam, as our best candidate for the job, our best representation of Mankind, but because of his human nature, he failed.

I’m not sure how to reconcile this explanation. It appears to be speculation, since the scripture doesn’t say. We must be careful with interpreting silence, because it can easily contradict other scripture. It seems to only
Indicate that He’s omnipotent, which means He can be everywhere all at once and know everything.

So was Christ, in the flesh, omnipotent as well? Christ had His limits, otherwise pursuing Christ like character would be impossible. So could Christ Himself be everywhere, all of the time, AND all knowing? For example, Christ had temptation, God does not. He had the potential to sin, but did not.

The Scripture is quite clear on this..Jesus is God.
I can give you dozens of Scripture support on this..but if you do not believe this, how do you think you attain salvation? Man is unable to keep the 10 Commandments, only God is Holy, and Good..not man. Another man cannot die for your sins and thus save you..only God can do such a thing.

When Jesus became a man, He set aside His Godliness, and relinquished Himself so that we as men can perceive and know God on a human level. How we are to live, conduct ourselves, and be Christ like.


John 8:58 “Jesus answered them: ‘I solemnly declare it:
before Abraham came to be, I AM.”

This was the name God gave himself when he first communicated
with Moses, Exodus 3:14
“God replied, ‘I am who am.’ Then he added, ‘This is what you
shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you.’”

John 10: 30 ”The Father and I are one.”

John 14:8-11 “’Philip,’ Jesus replied, ‘after I have been with you all this time, you still
do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show
us the Father’?…. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else
believe because of the works I do.’”

Matt. 11: 27 “Everything has been given over to me by my Father. No one knows the
Son but the Father, and no one knows the Father but the Son – and anyone to whom the
Son wishes to reveal him.”

Matthew 9: 5-7 “Which is less trouble to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven’ or ‘Stand up
and walk?’ To help you realize that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive
sins” – he then said to the paralyzed man – ‘Stand up! Roll up your mat and go home.’
The man stood up and went toward his home.”

John 10:37 + 38 “If I do not perform my Father’s works, put no faith in me. But if I
do perform them, even though you put no faith in me, put faith in these works, so as to
realize what it means that the Father is in me and I in him.”

God the Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit are all ONE in the Same.

Will edit this later todayEven to add to this, Jesus in his divine nature doesn't know the hour. If we claim God knows everthing and Jesus is God, yet doesn't know, it seems like it doesn't align to the definition of who God is.

Matthew 24:36
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

Like I stated..Jesus set aside His Divine Nature when He came to Earth..but He always claimed to be God..never the opposite. His followers knew this as well..

John 20:28 “Thomas said in response, ‘My Lord and my God!’”

John 21:17 Peter said,“Lord, you know everything….”

Colossians 2:9 “In Christ the fullness of deity resides in bodily form.”

Colossians 1:15+16 “He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all
creatures. In him everything in heaven and on earth was created, things visible and
invisible, whether thrones or dominations, principalities or powers; all were created
through him and for him….”

Philippians 2:6, 10-11 “Though he was in the form of God, he did not deem equality
with God something to be grasped at…. Because of this, God highly exalted him and
bestowed on him the name above every other name, so that at Jesus’ name every knee
must bend in the heavens, on the earth, and under the earth, and every tongue proclaim
to the glory of God the Father ‘JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!’”

Hebrews 1:3 “This Son is the reflection of the Father’s glory, the exact representation
of the Father’s being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had
cleansed us from our sins, he took his seat at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven, as
far superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.”

Romans 1:3 “… the Gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David
according to the flesh but was designated Son of God in power according to the Spirit of
holiness by his resurrection from the dead.”

2 Cor. 4:4 “Their unbelieving minds have been blinded by the god of the present age
so that they do not see the splendor of the gospel showing forth the glory of Christ, the
image of God.”

1 Cor: 15:3-8 “…I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you:… …that he
was seen by Cephas, then by the Twelve. After that he was seen by 500 brothers at once,
most of whom are still alive, although some have fallen asleep. Next he was seen by
James; then by all the apostles. Last of all he was seen by me….”


Angels cannot accept worship..


Revelation 5:12-14 “…and they all cried out: ‘Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to
receive power and riches, wisdom and strength, honor and glory and praise!’ Then I
heard the voices of every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the
sea; everything in the universe cried aloud: To the One seated on the throne, and to the
Lamb, be praise and honor, glory and might, forever and ever!’ The four living
creatures answered, ‘Amen,’ and the elders fell down and worshiped.”

And if you want Old Testament..


Isaiah 40:3 speaks about preparing the way for the LORD (Yahweh). When we compare this verse with Mark 1:3 we see that Jesus is the LORD who had the way prepared for him by John the Baptist.

In Joel 2:32a it says that whoever calls upon the Name of the LORD (Yahweh) will be saved. This verse is quoted by Peter in Acts 2:21, and by Paul in Romans 10:13. Both apostles are referring to Jesus as the LORD in these verses.

In Isaiah 6:1-10 we read about the marvellous vision that Isaiah had revealing the glory of the LORD (Yahweh). John tells us in John 12:40-41 that this vision revealed the glory of Jesus.

In Isaiah 44:6, the LORD (Yahweh) refers to himself as “the First and the Last”. In Revelation 1:8 and 17, Jesus similarly refers to himself as “the Alpha and the Omega” and “the First and the Last”.

In Zechariah 12:10 the LORD (Yahweh) speaks and says, “they will look on Me whom they have pierced.”[4] This is Jesus speaking (Psa. 22:16; John 19:34). This verse from Zechariah appears again in Revelation 1:7b and is about Jesus Christ.

As Yahweh (along with the Father and the Holy Spirit) Jesus is eternal, having all the qualities and attributes of God. Even on earth, in human form, Jesus was the image of the invisible God, and the exact representation of God’s nature (Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3). Jesus is not some sort of demigod; rather, the fullness of deity (“God-ness”) dwells in him in bodily form (Col. 2:9). Jesus Christ, born of the virgin Mary, was fully man and fully God, having both a human and divine nature at the same time.

It's gonna be hard to discuss 10 verses per post (hence why I will reply to them but in time). Let's stick to the one I just posted. It still doesn't answer why doesn't Jesus know the hour if he has all knowledge in his divine nature.

Jesus clearly said the Father only knows - not anyone else (which negates him since he is never the Father).

Why does it matter what people did thousands of years ago? Are you not concerned about today, and what will happen when tomorrow doesnt come?

This passage indicates your argument only after the resurrection.

I am interested in the pragmatic discussion here.

These teachings do offer wisdom most do not possess without studyingsomething.

This seems useful.

As for implementing these in policy, I see material incentives guide our world. This wisdom could help inspire good policy.

I've stated this multiple times..Jesus set aside His Divinity when He came to Earth to show how we are to live.

The precise moment of the Lord’s return cannot be known by anyone. When the Lord spoke these words, that information was said to be known by only the Father. Christ was obviously speaking from the vantage of His human knowledge (Luke 2:52), not from the standpoint of His divine omniscience.

The key to understanding Jesus’ seeming lack of knowledge in this matter lies in the nature of the Incarnation. When the Son of God became a man, He remained fully God, but He also took on a true human nature. Jesus retained all the attributes of divinity, yet, as a man, He voluntarily restricted their use. This was part of the “self-emptying” or self-renunciation spoken of in Philippians 2:6–8. When Christ entered our world, He laid aside the privileges that had been His in heaven. Rather than stay on His throne in heaven, Jesus “made himself nothing” (Philippians 2:7). When He came to earth, “he gave up his divine privileges” . He veiled His glory, and He chose to occupy the position of a servant.

There were times when Jesus publicly manifested His divine knowledge and power on earth (John 2:25; 11:43 –44). On those occasions, Jesus’ demonstrations of His divinity were directed by the Father. On other occasions, He had no such directive from the Father, and He kept His glory veiled. On all occasions, Jesus obeyed the Father’s will: “I always do what pleases him,” He said (John 8:29).

So, when Jesus said He did not know when He would return, He was actively humbling Himself and taking the form of a servant (see Philippians 2:7–8). Since no other mortal knows the time of Jesus’ return—that information is the Father’s alone (Matthew 24:36)—Jesus voluntarily restricted His knowledge on that point. It was part of Jesus’ submission to the Father (see John 5:30; 6:38; 8:28–29) and His mission to live a human life.

Not after..the Resurrection only helped to affirm, not rest on it's solidification.

If Jesus is not God...how do you think Salvation is attained?

No man can forgive your sins, and die in place of them. If you reject His Divinity, you reject salvation

I still cannot get on board with this.

1. Are you implying Christ lied when he said he did not know?

2. Christ is the perfect “human”. Your argument appears to be setting up automatic failure because now He’s omnipotent. No human should strive for Godliness, nor would good people attempt to. Others would become hopeless at the thought of it.

Christ must be recognized for his limitations, otherwise, we are just striving to be God, which is the exact opposite. We were told NOT to strive for Godliness, but instead Christlike.

Firstly, Jesus in his divinity is not the Father. Regardless of the time, he never had this knowledge. Jesus is not the Father at any point of time and is saying only the "Father".

Secondly, explain how Jesus can be fully man and fully God. This is a contradiction from every angle possible. To claim God knows everything all the time, yet saying God forgot when he became human is irrational.

Humans are imperfect; God is perfect.
Humans rely on sustenance; God doesn't rely on anything.
Humans forget; God does not.
Humans die; God does not.

How can they be the same at the same time?

1) Not understanding why you would assume this.
God set aside his Divinity, as we are told in Philippians. Jesus cannot lie, because Jesus IS God. Rev 1:8

Jesus is speaking here... “I am the Alpha and the Omega—the beginning and the end,” says the Lord God. “I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come—the Almighty One.”

2) What?? Those whom are born again should ALWAYS strive for Godliness..to be holy, without sin.

Ephesians 4:22-24
To put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.


ger greater than the one who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.

John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.


1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

Titus 3:1-8
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, ...


Christ has no limitations..and we are COMMANDED to be like Christ, whom IS GOD

You misused "whom" there. What would God think?

Jesus is God..The Father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus are the Same..3 distinct entities..but the same in One. Just like we have a body, soul, and spirit..all distinct..but all one..because remember we are made (in God's image..Gen 1:26) An Egg has a shell, a yolk, and the egg white..but it encompasses a single Egg.

Jesus always had the knowledge, He set aside His divinity..just as we are told in Phillipians,,and became a servant so that we may know how to live.

If He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).

Jesus did not die btw...He was resurrected

Cool. I declare myself to be God.

have you read the Bible?

srs

Yea. It wasn't particularly well written...

I'm being serious, have you?

Yes. When I was a little kid.

as an outsider..atheist/agnostic....whatever you call yourself, from what you read, does the Bible indicate Jesus is God?

It depends how you interpret "lord", and what it means to be "one with god" or "the voice of god'.

Mark 10:18 implies Jesus didn't consider himself to be God literally, but rather his instrument.

But if someone is the instrument, is there any practical way to tell the difference?

Anyway this is like arguing over whether Gandalf could beat Sauron if he had the ring.

Alpha and Omega are pretty distinct known words. Alpha meaning "first"..in position, order, and class..like the Alpha Variant..none beforehand, like wise Omega..meaning last..none after.

Jesus declared to be the Alpha and Omega..seems pretty clear to me that When God the Father declared the same, it is because they are in fact ....the same.

But Jesus is supposedly the voice of God. So it isn't clear whether he was speaking to project God's word or talking directly about himself as God. As I said, Mark 10:18 makes no sense unless you agree Jesus didn't consider himself to be literally God.

Ofc analyzing the Bible like this is silly because it is riddled with contradictions due to having different authors.