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Forum » Wealth manager: Buying a home is 'usually a terrible investment' srs
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Thread: Wealth manager: Buying a home is 'usually a terrible investment' srs

post 1670122693 10-26-2022, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo⏩
Rentcels, when will they learn?

I bought my home in 2007 for $555k. When all is said and done, after my 30 year mortgage is paid off, I would have paid $883k in principle, interest, and taxes. When my loan is paid off, my home will be projected to be worth $1.4 million. Which is an annual appreciation of 3%, a VERY conservative number for California considering it averages 5%.

If your rent is $2000/month, after 30 years you spent $720K and own NOTHING, while all I will have to do is pay my taxes.

Please, tell me again how that is a bad investment? It's not like you can take that $720k and invest it, you need it to pay your rent. Which is due in 6 days, BTW.
yikes, a lot of what if's, maybe's, far off from reality numbers.
post 1670122713 10-26-2022, 03:23 PM
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Imagine thinking that the proportion of your income that you are dedicating to accommodation should be spent buying a house for someone else rather than buying a house for yourself.
post 1670122793 10-26-2022, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted By OliverHeldens⏩
Lol at thinking your home will be worth $1.4M with interest rates at 7%.
Originally Posted By EasyPassive⏩
They can't do math srs LMAOOOO
ITT rentcels have no idea how home appreciation works.

They also think interest rates will never go down.

Keep paying your landlord's mortgage boyos.
Forever alone? Attraction and keeping the girl chasing you - http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=131498033

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post 1670122813 10-26-2022, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted By Kewbrah⏩
Imagine thinking that the proportion of your income that you are dedicating to accommodation should be spent buying a house for someone else rather than buying a house for yourself.
Imagine being so deluded to think people think that way.

It's literally a matter of not having a choice, for most. Except in the last few years where banks gave out loans like candy to anybody.

These threads are always 60 year old boomers vs 20-30 year olds getting started.
post 1670123113 10-26-2022, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo⏩
ITT rentcels have no idea how home appreciation works.

They also think interest rates will never go down.

Keep paying your landlord's mortgage boyos.
Funny,

every cuckhomecels I talked to in the last 10 years told me interests rates would never go up LMAOOOOO



























COPE fk LMAOOO
post 1670123423 10-26-2022, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By SoutheastBeast1⏩
Agreed, but that doesn't mean it's a bad purchase either. A house is something to live in, not make you rich. People who buy houses to make money work on fixing them up to flip them for a higher cost. They don't just buy them and jack off for 12 months then sell at a higher price. There's work done to the house.

Most people buy a house to live in it though. That's its function at the end of the day and totally worth it in the long run. Does anyone here regret purchasing your car because you weren't able to sell it for 10x what you paid for it 15 years later? Of course not, that's stupid. Why would you expect your house to increase your net worth significantly after you lived in it for 30 years?
imagine renting a car, its not much different then renting a place to live except the car can be taken from you much easier
post 1670123463 10-26-2022, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted By EasyPassive⏩
Funny,

every cuckhomecels I talked to in the last 10 years told me interests rates would never go up LMAOOOOO

COPE fk LMAOOO
Kind of like rentcels that think their rent will go down when historically it's always gone up.

Bookmark this and update me what your rent is in 15 years.

I already know what mine will be.
Forever alone? Attraction and keeping the girl chasing you - http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=131498033

You will never know your limits, unless you push yourself past the imaginary lines you have drawn in the sand.

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post 1670123573 10-26-2022, 03:42 PM
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And this is ignoring the fact that the homeowner is sitting on multiple hundreds of thousands in equity, while the renter is sitting on jack chit.
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post 1670123753 10-26-2022, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo⏩
ITT rentcels have no idea how home appreciation works.

They also think interest rates will never go down.

Keep paying your landlord's mortgage boyos.
I have 20 years working in Real Estate(and 3 in Finance), and would consider myself an expert at virtually everything related to the Business.

If you live in California, it's comical that you believe properties there are increasing in value. The state lost 173,173 residents in 2021. Ain't nobody looking to move there anytime soon.
post 1670123923 10-26-2022, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted By Kev1972⏩


And this is ignoring the fact that the homeowner is sitting on multiple hundreds of thousands in equity, while the renter is sitting on jack chit.
Lol, now do it again with current figures.

The house in this graph is worth about $225,000. Which doesn't buy a shack in most of the US. And this doesn't take into account the $50k down payment.
post 1670124103 10-26-2022, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted By EasyPassive⏩
Funny,

every cuckhomecels I talked to in the last 10 years told me interests rates would never go up LMAOOOOO
This definitely happened.
post 1670124143 10-26-2022, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo⏩
Rentcels, when will they learn?

I bought my home in 2007 for $555k. When all is said and done, after my 30 year mortgage is paid off, I would have paid $883k in principle, interest, and taxes. When my loan is paid off, my home will be projected to be worth $1.4 million. Which is an annual appreciation of 3%, a VERY conservative number for California considering it averages 5%.

If your rent is $2000/month, after 30 years you spent $720K and own NOTHING, while all I will have to do is pay my taxes.

Please, tell me again how that is a bad investment? It's not like you can take that $720k and invest it, you need it to pay your rent. Which is due in 6 days, BTW.
30 years from now $555k today will be worth roughly $1.4 million. You didn't make money there.

Obviously yes by renting you are giving away money, I'm not arguing that at all. At the same time your house isn't really an investment either. It's just something you bought that you use. It's a purchase, not an investment.

Let's put a pause to the home vs. rent thing for a second. Rentcels who think they aren't giving away their money are idiots, you don't need to debate that point with me. But here's my argument for why your home is not an investment. Let's say you already own a home and you have an extra $500k sitting around in your savings account. Are you going to put that $500k into another home and expect to make money off the home as it appreciates? If so, the most likely thing you'd accomplish is simply matching the effects of inflation over time. So I suppose it is an "investment" just not a very good one. Now if you want to buy a home to rent it out that's a different story, but that's not really an investment either. You've basically added a job that will require your time in order to profit from renting out the home. Even if it's a low effort job, there's still work you have to do so to call that strategy an investment is also a bit flawed.

If you want to be super technical here an investment is just anything that generates income or appreciation. Your job is an investment by that definition though, and we all know that's not what people are talking about here when saying investment. Everyone means passive investment (buy and hold and do nothing else) when they say a house is not an investment (or a good one because typically you're not going to do much better than meeting inflation).
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post 1670124183 10-26-2022, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By OliverHeldens⏩
I have 20 years working in Real Estate(and 3 in Finance), and would consider myself an expert at virtually everything related to the Business.

If you live in California, it's comical that you believe properties there are increasing in value. The state lost 173,173 residents in 2021. Ain't nobody looking to move there anytime soon.
173k leave with a population of 40 million, and 400K new adults every year that need a place to live.

Yeah, you sure do sound like an expert.
Originally Posted By SoutheastBeast1⏩
30 years from now $555k today will be worth roughly $1.4 million. You didn't make money there.

Obviously yes by renting you are giving away money, I'm not arguing that at all. At the same time your house isn't really an investment either. It's just something you bought that you use. It's a purchase, not an investment.

Let's put a pause to the home vs. rent thing for a second. Rentcels who think they aren't giving away their money are idiots, you don't need to debate that point with me. But here's my argument for why your home is not an investment. Let's say you already own a home and you have an extra $500k sitting around in your savings account. Are you going to put that $500k into another home and expect to make money off the home as it appreciates? If so, the most likely thing you'd accomplish is simply matching the effects of inflation over time. So I suppose it is an "investment" just not a very good one. Now if you want to buy a home to rent it out that's a different story, but that's not really an investment either. You've basically added a job that will require your time in order to profit from renting out the home. Even if it's a low effort job, there's still work you have to do so to call that strategy an investment is also a bit flawed.

If you want to be super technical here an investment is just anything that generates income or appreciation. Your job is an investment by that definition though, and we all know that's not what people are talking about here when saying investment. Everyone means passive investment (buy and hold and do nothing else) when they say a house is not an investment (or a good one because typically you're not going to do much better than meeting inflation).
$555k from 2007.

100% agree that buying a second home as an investment makes zero sense today and there are better options.
Forever alone? Attraction and keeping the girl chasing you - http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=131498033

You will never know your limits, unless you push yourself past the imaginary lines you have drawn in the sand.

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post 1670124293 10-26-2022, 03:56 PM
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Interest rates have a huge impact on the stock market too though

Would be interesting to see home prices, the S&P 500, and interest rates overlaid

Throw Bitcoin on there too, why not
post 1670124433 10-26-2022, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By bicmane123⏩
It's literally a matter of not having a choice, for most. Except in the last few years where banks gave out loans like candy to anybody.
Pretty much every homeowner chiming in on these threads either bought their principal residence over five years ago or don't live in a major population area. And there's a lot of people here who don't even own anything, they just want to jump on the bandwagon.

Nobody under the age of thirty today has a reasonable downpayment for a house unless they are lucky enough to be given it by parents. The average American has 7k just in credit card debt, there's nobody who is saving money for a down payment anymore. It's one of the reasons they had to give 0% downpayment mortgages to African-Americans.
post 1670124623 10-26-2022, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo⏩
173k leave with a population of 40 million, and 400K new adults every year that need a place to live.

Yeah, you sure do sound like an expert.
The -173,173 was a net migration. Which takes all of this int account.

And California has an Economic Outlook of 48/50 states, meaning there isn't some big wealthy industry with tons of people looking to move there like you saw from 2010-2021.

There's still likely some time to catch a piece of the 2021 values if you sell your house now. Otherwise, Timber!
post 1670124813 10-26-2022, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted By Destor⏩
Interest rates have a huge impact on the stock market too though

Would be interesting to see home prices, the S&P 500, and interest rates overlaid

Throw Bitcoin on there too, why not
It's true, but stocks are also a significantly more liquid investment than a Primary Residence. Most reasonable people are not invested in the stock market right now, and could have easily sold stocks anytime over the last 6 years and gone to Bonds.
post 1670125213 10-26-2022, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted By Kev1972⏩


And this is ignoring the fact that the homeowner is sitting on multiple hundreds of thousands in equity, while the renter is sitting on jack chit.
Originally Posted By OliverHeldens⏩
Lol, now do it again with current figures.

The house in this graph is worth about $225,000. Which doesn't buy a shack in most of the US. And this doesn't take into account the $50k down payment.
Yeah I agree this is a poor example of trying to say you saved money buying a home. Like Oliver said, it doesn't factor in the down payment whatsoever. So there's $50k gone in year 1. Let's assume the rest of that graph is accurate, you hand the renter the $50k that was spent on the downpayment to immediately invest for 30 years.

At a 10% rate of return annually you finish with $872k after 30 years. Even at 7% annually you finish with $380k. Now you have to factor inflation in here as well, because $872k 30 years from now is not as valuable as $872k today. The $380k 30 years from now would be equivalent to $160k, so essentially "earning" $110k in todays dollars.

So going back to your graph, after year 31 $110k - 28k = 82k in favor of the rentcel.... again all in today's dollars for simplicity here. The homeowner will eventually win out but it will take longer than 30 years and it won't be as overwhelming as you might think. Once the 30 year mark hits, it's the homeowner who then has extra money that the rentcel is still paying every year going forward. The rentcel has a greater wealth of investments from that initial $50k the homeowner used for the downpayment though, so there's some catch up to be done for the homeowner. That said the rentcel already has a head start, so the homeowner would be compounding at a lower rate initially, but they are adding incrementally whereto rentcel is not due to paying the rent. So they will catch them.. but I'm not doing the math to figure out when they would catch them.

What the homeowner does get, quite frankly, is a better quality of living and eventually should catch the rentcel after the tables turn at the 30 year mark. But it's not likely to be ahead at the 30 year mark, unless you flat out sell the house and live on the streets homeless. to pad your liquidity from the home sale. Financially I think most of you are completely clueless and have never actually run numbers so you're all talking out of your ass (largely speaking).



Home owning is better over the span of a lifetime but it's not absurdly better IF the rentcel invested properly. What the real problem for most rentcels is they're stupid as f*ck and burn their extra cash and end up in a far worse position. By buying a home you're forced to make the payments, and in essence hedge against inflation at the very least. So a lot of homeowners come out on top for that reason, but it's more to do with rentcels not investing properly

I know this will all fall on deaf ears though because it's the misc. Most of the rentcels in here bragging are very likely to be poor.
"One day I won't be able to lift any more. Not I won't want to lift. I mean physically unable. That day could be decades from now or it could be tomorrow. All I know is that's the day I'll wish I could lift more than ever. The day I'd give anything for one more workout, one more set, or one more cardio session. So go hard and enjoy every workout, every set, every rep. Because one day you will wake up and you will never get it back."
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post 1670125233 10-26-2022, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo⏩
173k leave with a population of 40 million, and 400K new adults every year that need a place to live.

Yeah, you sure do sound like an expert.



$555k from 2007.

100% agree that buying a second home as an investment makes zero sense today and there are better options.
Ah ok well I ran the numbers from today to 2052. It's just an example and I think you understand what I'm trying to say in the long run here.
"One day I won't be able to lift any more. Not I won't want to lift. I mean physically unable. That day could be decades from now or it could be tomorrow. All I know is that's the day I'll wish I could lift more than ever. The day I'd give anything for one more workout, one more set, or one more cardio session. So go hard and enjoy every workout, every set, every rep. Because one day you will wake up and you will never get it back."
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post 1670125373 10-26-2022, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted By OliverHeldens⏩
The -173,173 was a net migration. Which takes all of this int account.

And California has an Economic Outlook of 48/50 states, meaning there isn't some big wealthy industry with tons of people looking to move there like you saw from 2010-2021.

There's still likely some time to catch a piece of the 2021 values if you sell your house now. Otherwise, Timber!
Why would I sell my house, in which I pay $2400/month, to move into a house in which I would have to pay $4000/month to rent?

If anything, when my kids move out, I'll rent a studio for myself and rent out my house.
Forever alone? Attraction and keeping the girl chasing you - http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=131498033

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post 1670125793 10-26-2022, 04:27 PM
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I seriously don’t understand rentcels. Like, are they talking about living in apartments where some dickhead who can’t cook sets off the sprinkler and floods your place, destroying all your possessions?

Or are they talking about renting someone else’s property, essentially paying for the landlord to own the property outright?

Do rentcels not understand they’re paying for the property they’re living in? They think they’re getting over by investing, not realizing landchads invest too?

Seems like the have-nots mocking the haves, and it’s mind boggling.
post 1670126263 10-26-2022, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted By SoutheastBeast1⏩
Ah ok well I ran the numbers from today to 2052. It's just an example and I think you understand what I'm trying to say in the long run here.
Yep, I get it. When I calculated it in 2007 it said it would be worth $1.4m in 2037 @ 3%, when the real average at the time was 4.5%. Now the average is 5.4%.

It made so much financial sense, that I bought my home BEFORE the crash. Two years later it was worth $425K, now it's worth $850k. A slightly larger home next to me just sold for $905K.

Sure, I wish I had waited 2 more years to buy a home because my ROI and mortgage costs would have been that much better, but looking at rent prices today, I don't think I could have afforded to NOT buy a home when I did.

When it comes down to it, rentcels are just afraid of commitment and accountability. or like you said, have never saved enough money to even think about having the make the choice between putting a down payment on a house or putting it into something that will return 7% year over year, I don't think 10% is reasonable to even base anything off of.
Forever alone? Attraction and keeping the girl chasing you - http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=131498033

You will never know your limits, unless you push yourself past the imaginary lines you have drawn in the sand.

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post 1670126333 10-26-2022, 04:34 PM
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Seems like the homecels in this thread are boomers lol

just fk LMAO at boomers too
post 1670126593 10-26-2022, 04:38 PM
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yeah these mortgage cucks are like herp derp i can just sell it for twice as much!

meanwhile in reality even after 10 years you probably might list if for 50kplus. than when you factor in the tax/land transfer/guv/lawyer bs its only bout 35k.... 35k over 10 years is not that much. 3500 a year, JUST LOL
post 1670126923 10-26-2022, 04:44 PM
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This guy's must be a rentard. Given your other options are being homeless or renting its not bad. Besides I've made a killing on all of my previous home sales.
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post 1670127313 10-26-2022, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Deutschlandbrah⏩
Remember to invest the difference, OP. You need to make up for the rent increases next year
See user title lmao

Can’t wait for the end of the month to get a break from all these rentcuck cope threads

Don’t even care any more about receiving rent payments, just want to rentcucks to stop with the incessant cope threads
post 1670127563 10-26-2022, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted By EasyPassive⏩
Seems like the homecels in this thread are boomers lol

just fk LMAO at boomers too
I was 26 when I bought my house.

Just sayin'
Originally Posted By uRFeeble⏩
yeah these mortgage cucks are like herp derp i can just sell it for twice as much!

meanwhile in reality even after 10 years you probably might list if for 50kplus. than when you factor in the tax/land transfer/guv/lawyer bs its only bout 35k.... 35k over 10 years is not that much. 3500 a year, JUST LOL
See here lies the problem. All you rentcels focus on is the potential profit, not how much money it will save you over your lifetime.

First 30 years: You will save hundreds of thousands of dollars AND own all the equity in your house
Next 30 years: You will save a million dollars and still own the equity in your home.

It's not just about the value of the house.

I may not get to enjoy all that savings, but my kids and grandkids will. From there they can start building generational wealth.
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post 1670127653 10-26-2022, 05:07 PM
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#88
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Originally Posted By EasyPassive⏩
You'll need to ride that bus soon bud,

Or sell your home at a 50% discount LMAO
Sure bud, tell that to the people that bought house near me 30 years ago for $50k and are now worth 800k
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post 1670127713 10-26-2022, 05:08 PM
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#89
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yeah what a fukking idiot I am for putting 10k down, having a nice house to myself to live in for 2 years with no landlord and no issues and i could sell it now, actually sell not just market value, for 200k over what i paid and be up 190k.

Fukking terrible return on that investment my dude

like anything you spend money on and even more so, if you take out a loan for 200k, make sure its a smart fukking move and not just the one you are able to make so you do it.
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post 1670127733 10-26-2022, 05:09 PM
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#90
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo⏩
I was 26 when I bought my house.

Just sayin'



See here lies the problem. All you rentcels focus on is the potential profit, not how much money it will save you over your lifetime.
just fk ROFL

ok boomer
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