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Forum » UFC 284: Makhachev vs. Volkanovski discussion thread
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Thread: UFC 284: Makhachev vs. Volkanovski discussion thread

post 1677079963 02-12-2023, 07:28 PM
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Said Volk was always a bad match for Islam and he proved it.

I had it 3-2 for Islam simply bc he landed better shots minus 5th round and had control time. All in all, he did his thing.
post 1677081513 02-12-2023, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By OneLegSquats⏩
He dealt no damage though and did half assed choke attempts. Volk did the most damage which under UFC rules wins the round
emotional casual spotted.

that position was danger for pretty much everyone except volk. very impressed by the way volk handled that,

but there is no way you are arguing volk won that while having his back controlled..
post 1677081573 02-12-2023, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted By BalkanPrince⏩
Said Volk was always a bad match for Islam and he proved it.

I had it 3-2 for Islam simply bc he landed better shots minus 5th round and had control time. All in all, he did his thing.
How is Volk a bad match against Islam
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post 1677081733 02-12-2023, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By bicmane789⏩
emotional casual spotted.

that position was danger for pretty much everyone except volk. very impressed by the way volk handled that,

but there is no way you are arguing volk won that while having his back controlled..
Yeah

Islam spooned Volk for most of that round.

Only Volk could do was whack Islam on the head constantly which he did.
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post 1677081773 02-12-2023, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By ninetynine8⏩
what are you talking about dude

islam didn't have 'control' of anything, how is control being on your back getting punched in the face? control implies you can do something out of your position which he never could
islam holding his back, and volk being unable to move or escape is the definition of control.

islam not being able to get the choke is due to other factors like volk's strength and movements. still islam controlled him. that's dagestan wrestling specialty.
post 1677084733 02-12-2023, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted By bicmane789⏩
islam holding his back, and volk being unable to move or escape is the definition of control.

islam not being able to get the choke is due to other factors like volk's strength and movements. still islam controlled him. that's dagestan wrestling specialty.
he could have moved, he just didn't want to risk getting caught. Islam on the other hand didn't want to risk going for anything, WHILE getting punched in the face.

nah brah, that goes to volk.
post 1677084883 02-12-2023, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted By BalkanPrince⏩
Said Volk was always a bad match for Islam and he proved it.

I had it 3-2 for Islam simply bc he landed better shots minus 5th round and had control time. All in all, he did his thing.
dumbest post i've ever read lmao
post 1677089333 02-12-2023, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted By ninetynine8⏩
he could have moved, he just didn't want to risk getting caught. Islam on the other hand didn't want to risk going for anything, WHILE getting punched in the face.

nah brah, that goes to volk.
.. that makes zero sense.

if volk could have moved/got up, he would have.

volk was stuck there and those punches did little damage
post 1677089823 02-12-2023, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted By bicmane789⏩
.. that makes zero sense.

if volk could have moved/got up, he would have.

volk was stuck there and those punches did little damage
no, it makes perfect sense actually

why would volk risk moving and getting caught when he was doing perfectly fine in the position? did you miss the part where he was laughing while hitting his face and islam got frustrated?

so much control bro
post 1677094913 02-12-2023, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted By ninetynine8⏩
he could have moved, he just didn't want to risk getting caught. Islam on the other hand didn't want to risk going for anything, WHILE getting punched in the face.

nah brah, that goes to volk.
"Volk could have gotten up but he didn't want to"

Top 10 worst calls I've ever read
Fck u james
post 1677095003 02-12-2023, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted By Gringo12⏩
"Volk could have gotten up but he didn't want to"

Top 10 worst calls I've ever read
then try quoting me correctly next time big guy
post 1677096093 02-12-2023, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted By ninetynine8⏩
no, it makes perfect sense actually

why would volk risk moving and getting caught when he was doing perfectly fine in the position? did you miss the part where he was laughing while hitting his face and islam got frustrated?

so much control bro
He legit couldn’t get out because the fence was blocking his only escape path. He showboated to get the crowd riled up while the punches behind his head did no damage. There’s a reason why volk was convinced he was down on the scorecards going into the 5th and hunted the finish.

The only thing that worked out for him in that spot was his rnc defense.
watchout your comments boyo ↓
post 1677098683 02-13-2023, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted By bicmane789⏩
emotional casual spotted.

that position was danger for pretty much everyone except volk. very impressed by the way volk handled that,

but there is no way you are arguing volk won that while having his back controlled..
You agree with me then, since under the new scoring criteria, damage is worth more than control time. Islam dealt zero damage in those hugging situations. Volk was teeing off on his head dealing more damage overall. Volk wins. Just terrible judging as per
post 1677100523 02-13-2023, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted By OneLegSquats⏩
Volk won. He dealt more damage while Islam had control. Control time is worth less than damage, he was just hugging him from behind while Volk was knocking on his head.
Volk definitely lost that round under the current rules but I agree that this is how it should be scored. It would completely eradiate stalling (although it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be). You barely ever see any lay and praying these days because everyone is so much more well rounded. However, no matter the position, the person actively throwing strikes of any kind or attempting submissions should be seen as the winning side. Islam legit gave up seriously trying to find the choke with about 2 minutes left and just sat there with the body triangle while Volk was laughing and hitting him. Just because Islam had the dominant position (in grappling) shouldn't mean he automatically wins the round in MMA if he does absolutely nothing with it.
post 1677103303 02-13-2023, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
check out the fight stats: there's definitely an argument that volk won overall. 4 takedowns leading to no submissions attempts or strike advantage is worth... what? That's a flaw in the ufc rules imo. Takedowns doing no damage and having no submissions attempts should be worth less.



Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.

Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
checking the fight stats is dumb because it misses a lot of context

Islam landed the harder strikes overall in most of the rounds. The majority of Volk's strikes were either light or not significant at all. He won rounds 3 and 5.

Islam was clearly stalling in round 4 and not going for anything. I think in that case if the fighter is clearly not trying to advance position the ref should have stood them up. But how would you score that round? You can't really justify winning a round while being stuck in that position. And Volk's strikes weren't doing any damage. It was kind of a round where nobody was really doing anything but it was Volk stuck in that position in the first place.


I think it should just be up to the ref to stand that chit up if somebody is stalling for a minute plus.
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post 1677113353 02-13-2023, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted By ninetynine8⏩
he could have moved, he just didn't want to risk getting caught. Islam on the other hand didn't want to risk going for anything, WHILE getting punched in the face.

nah brah, that goes to volk.
I don't know why everyone is saying this is wrong. That's a common a theme in grappling, to escape positions sometimes you have to put yourself at risk, such as doing something other than defending the choke with your hands. And if you have a dominant position, you have to risk losing the position sometimes to get the sub.
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post 1677113463 02-13-2023, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted By Gainzzz⏩
Volk definitely lost that round under the current rules but I agree that this is how it should be scored. It would completely eradiate stalling (although it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be). You barely ever see any lay and praying these days because everyone is so much more well rounded. However, no matter the position, the person actively throwing strikes of any kind or attempting submissions should be seen as the winning side. Islam legit gave up seriously trying to find the choke with about 2 minutes left and just sat there with the body triangle while Volk was laughing and hitting him. Just because Islam had the dominant position (in grappling) shouldn't mean he automatically wins the round in MMA if he does absolutely nothing with it.
this
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post 1677113533 02-13-2023, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted By sooby⏩
checking the fight stats is dumb because it misses a lot of context

Islam landed the harder strikes overall in most of the rounds. The majority of Volk's strikes were either light or not significant at all. He won rounds 3 and 5.

Islam was clearly stalling in round 4 and not going for anything. I think in that case if the fighter is clearly not trying to advance position the ref should have stood them up. But how would you score that round? You can't really justify winning a round while being stuck in that position. And Volk's strikes weren't doing any damage. It was kind of a round where nobody was really doing anything but it was Volk stuck in that position in the first place.


I think it should just be up to the ref to stand that chit up if somebody is stalling for a minute plus.
not checking the fight stats is dumb.

understand there's a difference between using it as a piece of information, and using it to decide the fight.

in this context it's useful because some of the "knockdowns" you couldn't tell if they were slips or not. The fight stats go back and look and let you know. it's useful information.
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post 1677119093 02-13-2023, 11:28 AM
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Volk won that
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post 1677119463 02-13-2023, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted By iwant2beswole⏩
He legit couldn’t get out because the fence was blocking his only escape path. He showboated to get the crowd riled up while the punches behind his head did no damage. There’s a reason why volk was convinced he was down on the scorecards going into the 5th and hunted the finish.

The only thing that worked out for him in that spot was his rnc defense.
i never said he could just get up to his feet like gringo quoted me as saying, i said he could have tried moving positions. The problem is it's risky, but you know what else is risky? Islam actually doing something with his position.

Also not sure why people keep saying those punches weren't doing any damage, try doing it against yourself and find out. Islam was trying to block them and even starting throwing them back at one point when alex started going crazy with them. Whatever damage they did is more than what Islam being beneath Alex did to him...

Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
I don't know why everyone is saying this is wrong. That's a common a theme in grappling, to escape positions sometimes you have to put yourself at risk, such as doing something other than defending the choke with your hands. And if you have a dominant position, you have to risk losing the position sometimes to get the sub.
Exactly
post 1677119633 02-13-2023, 11:37 AM
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This wasnt a fight. This was a conversion attempt. Islam tried to convert Volk to Islam but Volk was able to withstand.
Everything I post is trash.
post 1677122553 02-13-2023, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted By ninetynine8⏩
Also not sure why people keep saying those punches weren't doing any damage, try doing it against yourself and find out. Islam was trying to block them and even starting throwing them back at one point when alex started going crazy with them. Whatever damage they did is more than what Islam being beneath Alex did to him...

That one always cracks me up too. Internet nerds who've never been a fight or trained anything discussing how particular punches "weren't doing damage". I promise you that **** hurts and eventually the person on the receiving end of those would be swollen and bloody and bruised.
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post 1677122593 02-13-2023, 12:16 PM
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post 1677124293 02-13-2023, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
That one always cracks me up too. Internet nerds who've never been a fight or trained anything discussing how particular punches "weren't doing damage". I promise you that **** hurts and eventually the person on the receiving end of those would be swollen and bloody and bruised.
post 1677127383 02-13-2023, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted By OneLegSquats⏩
You agree with me then, since under the new scoring criteria, damage is worth more than control time. Islam dealt zero damage in those hugging situations. Volk was teeing off on his head dealing more damage overall. Volk wins. Just terrible judging as per
Lol volk was in far more danger in that position that islam was.

it's grappling, of course islam wasnt doing damage. the danger comes from the sub and position.

meanwhile volk was helpless and those punches werent doing much except annoy islam.

why didn't the ref stand them up? it's because you can't do that if one guy is in such a dominate advantageous position.
post 1677127523 02-13-2023, 01:33 PM
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I thought Volk won but I was also biased and didn't watch some of the rounds as close as I should've

Great fight though and Volk's stock definitely went up. I think he's the better fighter regardless of the outcome
post 1677128593 02-13-2023, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted By bicmane789⏩
Lol volk was in far more danger in that position that islam was.

it's grappling, of course islam wasnt doing damage. the danger comes from the sub and position.

meanwhile volk was helpless andthose punches werent doing much except annoy islam.

why didn't the ref stand them up? it's because you can't do that if one guy is in such a dominate advantageous position.
post 1677132093 02-13-2023, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted By OneLegSquats⏩
mg
lol.. none of that damage was caused by volks strikes while islam had his back.
post 1677133513 02-13-2023, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted By bicmane789⏩
lol.. none of that damage was caused by volks strikes while islam had his back.
Can tell you've never been in a fight/sparred before. If a dude kept hitting you in the same place even from 9 inches away repeatedly you're going to get bruises and it's going to hurt. Try it yourself, stand with your back against the wall and swing your fist back over your head, now tell me that's not going to hurt someones face. Moron
post 1677133773 02-13-2023, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted By OneLegSquats⏩
Can tell you've never been in a fight/sparred before. If a dude kept hitting you in the same place even from 9 inches away repeatedly you're going to get bruises and it's going to hurt. Try it yourself, stand with your back against the wall and swing your fist back over your head, now tell me that's not going to hurt someones face. Moron
just punched myself in the head lightly to make sure im not crazy. still hurts
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