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Forum » New research shows CDC exaggerated the evidence for masks to fight COVID
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Thread: New research shows CDC exaggerated the evidence for masks to fight COVID

post 1677121213 02-13-2023, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted By frankdtank20⏩
.“The evidence is clear,” Redfield’s successor, Rochelle Walensky, insisted in November 2021, when she averred that wearing a mask “reduc(es) your chance of infection by more than 80%.” Three months later, the CDC claimed a study it published had shown that “wearing a mask lowered the odds of testing positive” by as much as 83%.




Oopsie. Looks like they put the decimal in the wrong spot. 8.3% or 83%, same thing right?
Kinda.

Community mask use yields a 19% reduction in transmission (R)
post 1677121663 02-13-2023, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Kinda.

Community mask use yields a 19% reduction in transmission (R)
And these studies lack control groups. Pretty much all of the studies lacked control groups. If there are no control groups, there is no comparison. If there is no comparison, then there is no science.

A lot of the scientific conclusions that are being published were not done properly in the first place, therefore the conclusions are arbitrary.

In other words, you’re basing your entire argument on nonscientific, nonconclusive information.

Before Covid, there was quite a bit of data suggesting the masks were not going to be affective. All of that suddenly disappeared during Covid and was replaced by this inconclusive evidence.

If you were to have walked into a hospital during flu season, none of the staff would have been wearing masks. The argument that “sure, because vaccines were required”, now we’re back to the argument that Covid vaccines do not stop the spread in or not near as effective as flu vaccines. This is a never ending loop of logical fallacies.
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post 1677122443 02-13-2023, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Sure.

The study is about covid re-infection.

You said most viral and bacterial re-infections have similar impacts. Can you share some support for that claim?
Flu and RSV come to mind. So does pneumonia. Kinda rather common infections. Between all 3 of them there are usually over 100 million infections per year in the US. The study you keep mentioning depends on the assumption hospitalizations from Covid infection/reinfection are valid, when the high majority are not.

And LOL at it being data in the VA system. The VA only gets used by very old dudes. Practically nobody under age 50 uses the VA system. It may as well be a study using exclusively nursing home patients.

Thanks again for the lulz
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post 1677122743 02-13-2023, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I'm not sure if that's supposed to be an insult. But I think I referred to "systemic" racism.
And just like with the masks, you couldn't prove systematic racism either.....
post 1677123123 02-13-2023, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted By TitsAlternative⏩
When cases are high, yea you should.
Your brain is stuck in 3 years ago. Risk of death after infection for the general population now is 0.01%, and that's with the elderly factored in. You have a higher chance of dying in a car crash every single year. You going to avoid getting in a car forever?
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post 1677123183 02-13-2023, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted By uncle
So are you upset at a country and a leadership that takes precautions when a new unknown epidemic is destroying Italy and China?
Birks, Fauchi, Trump, hhs guy, and the cast of task force members?
Ok you keep talking and hopefully they listen to you.
Well that's interesting Benny. Because I distinctly remember YOU putting your foot down and saying you would not take the "Trump vaccine," remember?

"He rushed it out too soon!" You said..

Remember?

Edit: There were actually a lot of you who said that.

It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1677126223 02-13-2023, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
And these studies lack control groups. Pretty much all of the studies lacked control groups. If there are no control groups, there is no comparison. If there is no comparison, then there is no science.

A lot of the scientific conclusions that are being published were not done properly in the first place, therefore the conclusions are arbitrary.

In other words, you’re basing your entire argument on nonscientific, nonconclusive information.
None of this is true.

Science exists beyond strictly experimental paradigms.
post 1677126293 02-13-2023, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted By frankdtank20⏩
Flu and RSV come to mind. So does pneumonia. Kinda rather common infections. Between all 3 of them there are usually over 100 million infections per year in the US. The study you keep mentioning depends on the assumption hospitalizations from Covid infection/reinfection are valid, when the high majority are not.

And LOL at it being data in the VA system. The VA only gets used by very old dudes. Practically nobody under age 50 uses the VA system. It may as well be a study using exclusively nursing home patients.

Thanks again for the lulz
So no support for your claim then?

Just not liking the results. Fair enough.
post 1677126353 02-13-2023, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
And these studies lack control groups. Pretty much all of the studies lacked control groups. If there are no control groups, there is no comparison. If there is no comparison, then there is no science.

A lot of the scientific conclusions that are being published were not done properly in the first place, therefore the conclusions are arbitrary.

In other words, you’re basing your entire argument on nonscientific, nonconclusive information.

Before Covid, there was quite a bit of data suggesting the masks were not going to be affective. All of that suddenly disappeared during Covid and was replaced by this inconclusive evidence.

If you were to have walked into a hospital during flu season, none of the staff would have been wearing masks. The argument that “sure, because vaccines were required”, now we’re back to the argument that Covid vaccines do not stop the spread in or not near as effective as flu vaccines. This is a never ending loop of logical fallacies.
"Positive and negative outcome controls

We conducted a positive outcome control analysis to examine whether our approach reproduced previous established knowledge, testing whether the association of a SARS-CoV-2 infection (irrespective of reinfection) was associated with risk of fatigue (a well-characterized, cardinal postacute sequela of COVID-19, where a positive association would be expected based on previous evidence). Results showed that, compared to a noninfected control group, those with a SARS-CoV-2 infection exhibited an increased risk of fatigue (HR = 1.72, 95% CI = 1.70–1.74).

We conducted a positive outcome control analysis to examine whether our approach reproduced previous established knowledge, testing whether the association of a SARS-CoV-2 infection (irrespective of reinfection) was associated with risk of fatigue (a well-characterized, cardinal postacute sequela of COVID-19, where a positive association would be expected based on previous evidence). Results showed that, compared to a noninfected control group, those with a SARS-CoV-2 infection exhibited an increased risk of fatigue (HR = 1.72, 95% CI = 1.70–1.74)."
post 1677126393 02-13-2023, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
And just like with the masks, you couldn't prove systematic racism either.....
I haven't heard of systematic racism.
post 1677126533 02-13-2023, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Kinda.

Community mask use yields a 19% reduction in transmission (R)
Is it exactly 19%? Or, is there an error factor that can be applied?
You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.
post 1677126543 02-13-2023, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I haven't heard of systematic racism.
Meh, you haven't missed anything... It's about as important as systemic racism.
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1677126603 02-13-2023, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted By litljay⏩
Is it exactly 19%? Or, is there an error factor that can be applied?
The paper reports the uncertainty in the estimate.
post 1677128673 02-13-2023, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
So no support for your claim then?

Just not liking the results. Fair enough.
The study you are citing is right up there with "smoking doesn't increase lung cancer risk" studies by tobacco companies. It's a dumpster of diapers on fire. So invalid that I'm not sure whether to laugh or cringe.

Oh you mad you're looking like a fool. AGAIN. Have you heard of flu, RSV or pneumonia? If you don't know multi organ risks they carry without having to Google it you should really stop pretending like you have even basic medical knowledge. You can copy/paste, congrats. Maybe that will work on stupid people.
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
post 1677130383 02-13-2023, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted By frankdtank20⏩
The study you are citing is right up there with "smoking doesn't increase lung cancer risk" studies by tobacco companies. It's a dumpster of diapers on fire. So invalid that I'm not sure whether to laugh or cringe.

Oh you mad you're looking like a fool. AGAIN. Have you heard of flu, RSV or pneumonia? If you don't know multi organ risks they carry without having to Google it you should really stop pretending like you have even basic medical knowledge. You can copy/paste, congrats. Maybe that will work on stupid people.
What don't you like about the study? What do you think is flawed?

Do you have some refs for flu, RSV, and/or pneumonia re-infection increases the risk of the stated outcomes over those who aren't re-infected?
post 1677130713 02-13-2023, 02:17 PM
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I've pointed out specific issues with the Cochrane mask review analysis. Are you willing to do the same for the re-infection study?
post 1677131183 02-13-2023, 02:24 PM
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OP forgot to quote the most important parts of the article and study.

Article:
The authors suggest several possible explanations for these results, including “poor study design,” inconsistent or improper mask use, “self-contamination of the mask by hands,” “saturation of masks with saliva” and increased risk-taking based on “an exaggerated sense of security.”
Study:
The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions.
Long story short.. the studies they looked at were crap and therefore didn't "prove" masks helped. That literally doesn't mean that masks don't work, it means THOSE studies failed to prove it because of various reasons.
post 1677132983 02-13-2023, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
OP forgot to quote the most important parts of the article and study.

Article:




Study:



Long story short.. the studies they looked at were crap and therefore didn't "prove" masks helped. That literally doesn't mean that masks don't work, it means THOSE studies failed to prove it because of various reasons.
When you and your fellow MAPs look for children to groom do you go for non-masked kids?
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post 1677133573 02-13-2023, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted By Stizzel⏩
When you and your fellow MAPs look for children to groom do you go for non-masked kids?
The Governor of your state is about to get labeled a groomer by the guy who conned you to donate to his wall fund, maybe you should ask him?
post 1677134003 02-13-2023, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted By Stizzel⏩
Whenyouand your fellow MAPs look for children to groom do you go for non-masked kids?
Pat's refusal to answer and subsequent deflection inbound in 5... 4... 3... 2...
Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
The Governor of your state is about to get labeled a groomer by the guy who conned you to donate to his wall fund, maybe you should ask him?
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1677139263 02-13-2023, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
Pat's refusal to answer and subsequent deflection inbound in 5... 4... 3... 2...
Bushy.. take your obsession with groomers and ask this guy..

post 1677139533 02-13-2023, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
Bushy.. take your obsession with groomers and ask this guy..

Paging dr deflection. Deflection is not a valid argument, groomer.
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post 1677139773 02-13-2023, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted By dmike100⏩
Paging dr deflection. Deflection is not a valid argument, groomer.
Deflection without substance is only okay if it supports the narrative?
post 1677139823 02-13-2023, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted By dmike100⏩
Paging dr deflection. Deflection is not a valid argument, groomer.
Funny.. you don't call out the people who actually deflected to grooming.. you call out the response to it. Derp.
post 1677140063 02-13-2023, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
Funny.. you don't call out the people who actually deflected to grooming.. you call out the response to it. Derp.
Not an argument.
Freedom of speech is a principle pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved and tyranny is erected on its ruins.

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post 1677140253 02-13-2023, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
OP forgot to quote the most important parts of the article and study.

Article:




Study:



Long story short.. the studies they looked at were crap and therefore didn't "prove" masks helped. That literally doesn't mean that masks don't work, it means THOSE studies failed to prove it because of various reasons.
And here chimes in Patricia who literally told everyone he was gonna stop wearing one in 2021, because he was vaccinated.......
post 1677140333 02-13-2023, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
And here chimes in Patricia who literally told everyone he was gonna stop wearing one in 2021, because he was vaccinated.......
Cool unrelated story that has nothing to do with anything.




Originally Posted By dmike100⏩
Not an argument.
Derp.
post 1677141873 02-13-2023, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted By frankdtank20⏩
Your brain is stuck in 3 years ago. Risk of death after infection for the general population now is 0.01%, and that's with the elderly factored in. You have a higher chance of dying in a car crash every single year. You going to avoid getting in a car forever?
If local case counts spike again, why shouldn't I mask?
post 1677142413 02-13-2023, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted By GroomerPat⏩
The Governor of your state is about to get labeled a groomer by the guy who conned you to donate to his wall fund, maybe you should ask him?
That might explain why you vacation here
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post 1677142853 02-13-2023, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted By TitsAlternative⏩
If local case counts spike again, why shouldn't I mask?
If you want to put on a 10% effective prevention tool against a cold that's up to you. Certainly not how I'd live my life, but you do you, boo.
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
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