Emails weren't released until January 2022, so Trump wasn't in the picture anymore. Look at the thread and see how the experts were deliberating between lab leak vs natural origins, and in comes Francis Collins on Feb 2, 2020, trying to push for natural origins to protect science and International Harmony - that's pretty damning.


https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=180989443

That's true, Trump was only with Fauci during covid for about a year.

Regarding the emails, honestly I'm too lazy to go and research this more at the moment. Emails can look damning out of context etc, but to be fair I'm not dismissing anything you're claiming.

But here’s my main issue with the approach to it. While we don’t have proof one way or another, thebehaviorsregarding our approach to the topic is troublesome. There should be open and honest debates. There should be free flow of information so people can evaluate things and discuss as needed. That’s not what we saw. We saw people silenced and censored. We had social media actually blocking reports of lab leak hypothesis(with reasons for suggesting it as likely). We saw demonization of anyone who considered it, claiming they were “crazy conspiracy theorists”. We saw prominent scientists claim a lab leak was very likely…only to meet with higher ups(who may have a vested interest in their conclusion), change their tune, and then later receive millions of dollars. These are not the behaviors of people with a solid case for their argument(natural origin). And these types of actions are often carried out by people with a very flimsy argument at best, and something they are trying to hide at worst. We saw this type of action with all types of things regarding the virus and injections. Sure it doesn’t “prove” anything, but it is certainly grounds for suspicion and skepticism.

No, I said the experts and intelligence agencies - not me. Now go away.. you ruin every thread arguing semantics and gotchas for pages and pages with everyone.

Stumped once again? That's okay groomer pat, you tried your best

You gotta remember this is the weekend they got the first viral sequence and were able to study it. Many scientists were on the fence and we can see on day 2 of deliberations that Francis Collins is already pushing for natural origins. And you gotta remember, Francis Collins is the big bank for all these scientists - providing tens of millions of dollars in research grants for them - and he is more interested in protecting science and international harmony.

Would be nice if things worked this way, but to be fair Trump ran right to the podium and announced it was a lab leak. Period. All he had to do was release the proof and that would have been the end of that.

And as far as the rest of the claims in your post, we live in a country where people still believe cheating happened in the 2020 election. I understand (did not say approve) why the government would want to direct the narrative. I also understand that people would want to cover their asses.. but again without proof it's all speculation.. or conspiracy theories.

Again, I'm not up to date on this stuff so I can't comment. Sorry (second time I've apologized to you itt lol)

I don't understand Dave's fascination with masks and people who wore them. We were in the middle of a world-wide novel pandemic... people were willing to barely inconvenience themselves to help out not just themselves but everyone else around them. Anyone who's a public servant and isn't simply in it for the paycheck should understand why they did it..

And lol at Dave posting a "top 10 myths" from the NY Post. dEbUnkEd!!!! lol

Pretty sure Trump said he had “very little doubt” that it originated from a lab. But lots of other prominent scientists believed that to be the case as well, and pointed to very valid reasons…or at the very least questions that needed to be answered. Or if an open and honest discussion was being had perhaps their concerns about those characteristics that made them lean towards that conclusion could’ve guided others looking for the natural origin. But honestly, the people claiming natural origin as likely knew about all of those things…but instead of leaving it open-ended(especially important at a time when we clearly didn’t know) they shut down all opposition. Again, that is not indicative of someone with a.) a strong case for their argument, b.) nothing to hide, and/or c.) a legit desire to find and confirm the truth. So that makes me skeptical of anyone who took that approach.


You me 2nd paragraph has nothing to do with the topic and is just a way for you to lump people into a group so it’s easier for you to attack them. I could point out how intelligence agencies worked with traditional and social media to bury a story(laptop) and label believers as crazy conspiracy theorists…same technique as the lab leak story. I could point out how the left went on for years about Russian collusion(with the help of politicians and media outlets that knew it was horsesh!t). But again none of that has anything to do with the topic at hand, other than the aforementioned similar tactics used to suppress narratives and promote others regardless of what’s true and what’s not.

Well, a lot of us have kept up with these details and facts that the "credible" media refused to report on. It doesn't really paint a pretty picture and leaves many of us with plenty of skepticism - from how both China dealt with it and how the US dealt with it.

Maybe if US scientists, media and tech companies weren't so eager to shut down one side of the debate, they could have put more pressure on WHO and China to open investigations of the WIV labs, but instead the WHO went in with very little pushback and allowed China to shut them down. Now, three years later, they are saying we still need honest and open investigations into origins - but at this point, it is unlikely to ever happen.

My second paragraph was simply addressing why the government would want to steer the narrative and gave an example of what happens when people are allowed to "speculate" like they did with the 2020 election. I wasn't trying to lump anyone into a group.. they're already there - on both sides lol.

But again I do agree with you that it would be nice if things worked the way you initially described.

Listen, there was a chit ton of fake news coming from the right - in direct contradiction to what the government and experts were saying. And you wonder why credible media reported what the government and experts were saying? That doesn't mean they "shut down" anything, it means the right's narrative couldn't be supported. So what were they supposed to report?

And I don't want to rehash everything that happened in the last three years, I simply came into this thread to point out that the OP was incorrect, no one got "BTFO Again", that the general consensus from our intelligence communities is not what OP claimed.

And on a side note.. I find it a little funny that the right leaning posters on this forum who HATE the FBI suddenly point to them (and the dept of energy) for having moderate confidence it came from the lab. Lol

these threads always turn to chit once batchitpatty starts sperging out.

SAD.

Pro Tip: The left's narrative can't be supported either.


And by your own admission, you're too uninformed to actually debate me.


So you can piss off now. Lmao.

And we were getting along so well... lol

Oh well, it was better for a few minute around here lol.

And you were the one who went to the FOIA emails, not me. Sorry you wanted to talk about that instead.

Enjoy the rest of your evening!

You shouldn't be sorry that I wanted to talk about the FOIA emails. It is a very crucial piece of information for understanding how the narrative and bias quickly developed so early on in this debate. It's something you should be informed about. You're welcome.

FBI director says COVID pandemic 'most likely' originated from Chinese lab

"The FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident in Wuhan," Wray told Fox News in an interview that aired Tuesday. "Here you are talking about a potential leak from a Chinese government-controlled lab."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi...ed-chinese-lab

Dude.. no idea wtf you're talking about. Go post a thousand times splitting hairs with someone else.

Saw that. By far the most direct accusation from anyone other than Trump. Would love to know what info they have the other agencies don't. Would be great if they released it too.

^^I got another example:

Then-head of CDC Robert Redfield:He really said this. Fauci and Collins only wanted one narrative:

Yeah that’s true, there are people who go off the rails on both sides. That’s a human thing not a left or right thing.

Hopefully we move towards more transparency, but over the past 20 years it’s moved in the opposite direction unfortunately. Propaganda has always been a tactic used, and with the types of tools available now in the digital age is has ramped up to levels I don’t think we’ve ever seen in this country. That’s why I think it’s important to look out for the techniques involved just as much or more than you look at the specific information. The approach taken to it will provide valuable insight(like the techniques listed above about censoring, demonizing and dismissing opponents, using fear or groupthink, etc.) And I don’t even give them as much of the benefit of the doubt as you do when it comes “just preventing speculation in order to avoid people getting ramped up too much”….they whipped the entire population into a frenzy and actually supported/provided cover for a full summer of chaos, violence, and destruction knowing full well the response was not anywhere close to be justified by the narrative they were pushing. They don’t care about people getting carried away, they only care about promoting their side.

I'd love to see it too, especially the information that could possibly contradict the natural origins evidence from phylogenetics and molecular biology, etc.


And it's quite a weak argument to suggest Collins framing a narrative lends credence to lab leak theory. This isn't evidence for either hypothesis in any scientific sense of the term; it's simply stating they framed a narrative. And we can explain that without evil intentions easily enough, IMO. The sinophobia was off the charts and they were wanting to get a lid on it.

And you know why else they would have suggested a natural origins story early on? We knew this was coming. Scientists had been warning of us a coming pandemic for years and it wasn't a shock event, there were various puzzle pieces we already knew about and just needed the right time for all of them to fit together.

Ecohealth alliance applied for funding to create a furin cleavage site on a coronavirus.

Ecohealth alliance works with the wuhan institute of virology.

A virus appeared in wuhan with the exact changes to a coronavirus that ecohealth alliance wanted to make.

Hmmmm, it's just a coincidence, honest.

If your sole objective is finding the truth, then you don't need to frame a narrative.

There is no excuse for framing a narrative on Day 2.

The amount of stupidity that comes out of your mouth is absolutely mind-blowing.

Did I say this was empirical evidence for the natural origins, or say this was the entirety of the case?

You have got to be one of the most disingenuously lame posters in this forum. You semantic sleigh of hand and interpolation is off the charts.

The masks protect you from getting it? And would you sit in an enclosed space next to someone who was positive, but they wore a paper mask?

Because....these scientists were expecting another pandemic and knew all the puzzle pieces were there and this explains the precedent for a natural origins narrative.

Did they predict one involving a virus with multiple characteristics that could suggest it was manipulated in a lab??

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-incident.html

Hmmmmmm