It sways the numbers a lot.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion...haplains-exec/


More than seven-in-ten (73%) state prison chaplains say that efforts by inmates to proselytize or convert other inmates are either very common (31%) or somewhat common (43%). About three-quarters of the chaplains say that a lot (26%) or some (51%) religious switching occurs among inmates in the prisons where they work. Many chaplains report growth from religious switching in the numbers of Muslims and Protestant Christians, in particular.



I have no desire to attempt to convince you of the existence of a God, and that’s not what this thread is about. It’s about whether a society benefits from having a large percentage of the population establishing and maintaining a relationship with our Creator. And again, practically every culture along the way has recognized the importance of this aspect. You can say they were all wrong, but as I mentioned earlier I view that as total hubris.

Sweden has the highest atheism rates in the world and the lowest crime. Kind of inconsistent with your hypothesis. Japan is majority atheist. Their civilization seems intact. Religion seems like a distraction to other important social issues. It's almost a kind of mental virus. Like a bad meme that monopolizes the dialogue.

Again, historically, people didn't have the scientific data we now have. Certain beliefs are simply incompatible with what we know abut the universe.

Well Sweden is having its culture wiped and its population replaced due to immigration and the far left ideology that sweeps in in the absence of any other foundational belief system. Japan’s population is decreasing more than any other large country, and they have a culture of literally working yourself to death and an enormously large problem with incels(about 1/4 of Japanese in their 20’s and 39’s are virgins)who just drop out and get their stimulation from games and virtual environments. Probably not the poster children you want to use for how great and sustainable countries without religion are.




What do we know about the universe that is incompatible with a belief in God?

IDK both countries have higher human development than the US. There's also Denmark and many others. But whatever. You'll dismiss them all and find some reason to argue they suck.

Prayer, for one. There's an issue. How does God observe prayers? If two people pray at roughly the same time (according to some other bro on Earth) for an outcome, which is perceived first by God?



If two equally devout people pray at nearly the same time for different outcomes, how could God respond to this race condition in an objective manner consistent with the rules of the universe? Note that the perception of the causal order of events depends on the velocity of the observer relative to them. Oops. Having a global reference frame is part of the way you guys claim God perceives and intervenes in response to prayer. Except now you see it can't work. Perhaps you might protest that it is all predetermined and God doesn't respond to prayers in that way. He already knows you will pray etc. Ok but then that destroys your free will doesn't it? Oops.

Problem bro?

So we already have that the Christian perception of God violates special relativity. But it gets worse. There are many other specific aspects of a god or the Judeo-Christian God that violate known, demonstrable physics.

I've argued this point with a very intelligent religious PhD physicist from Princeton. His reply: "Ok but why ruin it? Why ruin people's hope?" LOL so he "believes" but doesn't believe.

I’m not saying they suck. There are good and bad aspects to both a secular society and a religious/spiritual society. Im saying that having a spiritual and/or religious culture that attempts to maximize the positive aspects of worldview while minimizing the negatives has the potential to be better than any culture that is void of any religion and/or spirituality. It is a key aspect to the human experience and this is evident by the fact that is found across all times, places, and peoples. I would also say that removing religion and/or spirituality from a society accelerates the rate at which the culture is eroded and ultimately falls away into the dustbin of history. This, again, is evident by any look into the great civilizations that have risen and fallen throughout human history.No offense, but that’s a pretty terrible argument. You’re assuming you know and understand prayer, know and understand God, and know and understand the balance of free will and pre-determination. But just to stick with your main argument since it’s so easy to dismantle. There is a lot more that goes into outcomes than just what two people pray for. You are taking a system with billions(possibly trillions or possibly an infinite number) of variables and saying “see, these two variables existing in the system at the same time means it can’t be possibly be an accurate equation.”

Religion is based on grift.

You have a group of people lying about spiritual knowledge in order to steal money and sexual favors from a dumber, more gullible group of people.

In what imaginary universe is that a good basis for a strong society?

I'm saying there is no consistent way for God to define who prayed first. It actually can't be defined globally. It's an excellent argument. It destroys the idea of there being a global reference frame. There is no absolute timeline for the entire universe. That breaks a LOT. You haven't dismantled anything. God can't tell "who prayed first" because defining such a thing objectively globally is mathematically impossible.

But then that means God can't consistently respond to prayers or intervene unless there is no free will, but that contradicts your religion. RIP.

So God is able to create all the matter and all the laws and all the consciousness that we can observe(as well as lots more that we can’t observe)…yet he just can’t seem to hash out who had a thought first. That’s your argument?

Yes because "first" is observer dependent. This is how physics destroys your archaic models of reality. Also, no I don't think God created anything. I don't think God exists. I'm not even sure wtf "God" means. But I do know from what is described by your religion, it must have properties inconsistent with experimentally demonstrable physics (or the universe has properties inconsistent with your religion as I said earlier). I've given you the argument. Whether you want to accept it or not is your choice, but you can't really refute it lol.

Wincel

My "Strong Alpha Men Are Inherently Religious" argument is once again undefeated.

No further argument is necessary, as the truth lies in our DNA.

atheism appeals to your typical leftist loser just like feminism, CRT, trannyism, communism, etc.,

What is my religion??


You say “first is observer dependent”…but I’d say God is the observer. If you play an online game and you shoot someone, they shoot you, and you both think you’re doing it first based on what you observe on the screen, that doesn’t mean we have no way of determining who actually pressed the button first. The server knows who it received information from first regardless of what either player or anyone else playing the game thinks.

Again, do you not see how this generates contradictions? If it can't be consistently defined which event happened first, it breaks your entire narrative of God perceiving a causal order and responding and intervening based on that. If the prayers had some sort of rule requiring whoever was first to be rewarded with something exclusive to the second, we now run into a situation where somewhere in the universe, someone could observe God breaking his rule and violating the terms of the prayers.

Right. The difference here is there is no global server for the universe. That's what relativity shows us. There is another observer who could see a different temporal order so no global order can be defined. In your gaming analogy everyone eventually sees what the server sees because it rubberbands and makes things consistent. That doesn't happen in real life. And if it was already made to be consistent a priori, it means there is no free will at all. From the very beginning, it was all determined and no such inconsistencies would arise. See the problem?

People speak of God as a watcher who sees events in the universe unfold along some timeline and responds to prayers. But it can't be this way. It violates relativity because there is no global timeline for the universe. That's the entire point. Absolute time is ruled out.

There are also many other interesting issues with time and how a deity would perceive it. For example, the question of whether God changes is one that has plagued philosohers. But we know if God does not change, then it cannot perceive a change either. Because its perception defines a property of what it observes. But if it changes, it changes along some timeline because that is what we mean by time: an iterated sequence of changes. But now we are fuked because we now have God's timeline and perceptions of the universe forcing them to be defined consistently. On the other hand, if the universe is taken to be a deterministic 4d object with all past, present and future, it's conceivable God doesn't change. But this also destroys free will. We also know certain quantities cannot be predefined consistently via Bell's Experiment. They must truly be undefined until they are observed. So that also sinks absolute determinism.

It just gets increasingly cumbersome to fit a deity into any of this. It's already complicated enough with an average deterministic but fundamentally random universe as it is.

1.) you’re creating arguments for how prayers work(first come first serve) when there is no reason to assume that’s the case or that you have any idea what impact they have

2.) there is more to creation than the observable universe and observable dimensions. That alone means it’s quite possible God exists in those or in all dimensions simultaneously. Also, the post you just made was created before the one I’m writing now. That is knowable, and every other event that occurs can be ordered as to when it occurs compared to every other event.



All you are doing is constructing very strict parameters and limitations and then arguing your point against what you’ve set up to argue against(like prayer is first come first serve).

It can't be ordered consistently. That's the issue. The first come first serve is to prove a point. The core argument is quite simple: absolute time is impossible. But your God requires it because it allegedly somehow observes the entire universe simultaneously while still being able to somehow respond along your timeline and understand the way things are ordered and intervene without breaking anything else. So your God is impossible. The simultaneity is the problem.

I don't think so.


Look at Japan. Most of the country are Buddhist/ Shinto, yet they're probably the most civilized country on the planet.

Do you think it’s possible for us to know that this thread was created before the posts in it.


And again, you are ignoring all of the dimensions we are unable to observe.

I already covered the 4d aspect. If it is all perceived in that way by a God, then it is deterministic and there is no free will. Also, we already know God is not omniscient. There are limits to what can be observed and known to what accuracy. Also, there are things that cannot even in principle be defined a priori until measurement. This really fuks God's perception.

Also, what you said assumes a timeline for God lol. "Before the posts in it". You're sneaking time in, see. lol God might know there will be a thread and all the posts. But then where's the free will? And what about Bell's Inequalities being violated? We know particle states are fundamentally undefined until observed. Kind of makes it hard for God to "see" the universe doesn't it?

Imagine you're an atheist reading this thread then you realize at some point you are on the same team as loveless, penniless, basement dwelling wincel. At what point would you realize you're on the wrong side of this?

When I was younger I was literally making 4 times as much money as I'm making now and following my every fleshly desire and at no point was I happier than I am now after I got saved and living my life somewhat close to what the LORD wants. I have a wife that loves me and serves me like a king. Children that love and respect me and love God. Life is not perfect but its damn good boyos.

Btw, it's always a pleasure watching the God crew like Paul and condorCHAD absolutely destroying the fedora crew in these threads.

CondorCHAD literally has like 3 or 4 posters that he chases out of threads everytime he gets involved. It's pretty hilarious.

Much love to my new brother Wiseoldape as well. Once again my apologies for being mean to you all these years but I'm very happy that you found the Truth.

Psalms 53:1-3 (KJV) The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.

Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy;there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

I don't think Jesus would approve of nazis. Well, if he existed. Pleb gonna pleb. Believe what you want. At some point when you people become...problematic...you'll have to get the commie treatment. If you agree to live and let live, others will do the same. Push your bs and expect resistance.

Then who or what is observing all of the particle states that allowed our universe to evolve over billions of years? Who is observing the particle states that allows all of the stars and galaxies to remain constant?


Actually, don’t worry about answering that. If you honestly think you have proven that it’s impossible for God to exist then there is probably no point in continuing this discussion. Neither one of us is going to change our minds.

Another unhinged, delusional and paranoid post from the resident basement dwelling fedora boy. You must have me confused with someone else. I dont care what you people do, you'll have your day on the judgement seat.

My faith in God is unrelenting and I believe his word when he says he'll deal with your filthy kind in due time. As for me and my house? We're doing great.

Keep seething in your miserable existence. Lmfao!

You are the one seething and he is right.

Religion is for delusional people who are not connected to real life and have little power. So, you cast magic spells on people to "punish" them in your mind, and so on.

Read your reaction here and see what you are saying and doing.

You don't like someone's beliefs and so in your mind, they will go to a fantasy world where they will be punished for not agreeing with you.

If you step back and think about it, it's bizarre and toxic.

The particles observe each other. Large scale collections of particles behave more deterministically because of frequent interactions with each other and the aggregate DeBroglie wavelength of the massive system is very low. Large objects behave classically. There's other weird chit too. Like have you heard of the quantum zeno effect? If God were to know the states of everything for all time, the particles would not be subject to time evolution. There are other batchit consequences to Gawdd I haven't even gotten into.

I've given some constraints that make it harder to justify the traditional kind of God from Abrahamic mythology. It doesn't rule out deism.

Has it though? What about places in the ME that are staunchly religious? They follow their bible to the letter and take everything the Quran says on a literal basis, and they're blown up and massacred multiple times per year, and it has been that way for them for literally thousands of years. Hundreds of generations of families have lived and died over there only knowing hardships extreme poverty and famine.

Why isn't Allah rewarding them for being virtuous to the teachings of the quran? To them the world has always been uncivilized and apocalyptic, but in your eyes because you see a faag in drag on the TV its the "end of the world?"

Perspectives man, perspectives.

If you don't care what others do, I have zero beef with you bro. Just don't tell me I have to go along with your delusion. We gucci.

As hard as they try, as much of their intellectual capacity that they use to double down, atheistcels can never get around these two brutal reality pills:

1. There has never once been a prosperous or long lasting atheist civilization

and

2. Alpha high T men are inherently religious, and that atheism only appeals to genetic rejects

"b-b-but quantum physics and black holes and entropy and manlet sam h-h-arris said so and so and manlet joe rogaine s-said" stfu you nerd.

He can think what he wants. As long as he doesn't force his chit on others, we good.

1) USSR/China
2) Most people are religious. So most high T are religious. However, I'm not sold that Alphas are generally more religious. I'd actually bet the opposite is true. Most politicians and leaders feign religiosity for support.

Well I mean physics tells us some stuff about the universe. But as a flat earther and card carrying neonazi, you aren't the most mentally competent person to understand the implications.

I mean, there can be "A" god-like Being out there, but to claim that it knows we exist, and has set specific guidelines for us to live by, and gets triggered to the point of genociding his own creations because said creations want to stick their reproductive organ into a hole thats only 1'' away from the "appropriate hole" (sodomy) is a bit of s stretch, don't you think? With respect to the vastness of the entre universe its unfathomable how inconsequential it is for a god to care whether or not we eat shellfish or wear clothing of two different fabric.