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Forum » Universal healthcare is the way to go
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Thread: Universal healthcare is the way to go

post 1680987783 04-17-2023, 01:42 PM
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Universal healthcare is the way to go

What's more, according to figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, an estimated 117,000 people in England died in 2021 while awaiting NHS treatment.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ON-people.html
Studies show that for each month patients with breast, bowel or head and neck cancers have their treatment delayed, the chances of them dying from the disease increase by 6 to 13 per cent.
Revealed: Who is being hit hardest by the NHS' waiting list of SEVEN MILLION people - and why they are facing so many delays
More patients in England are waiting for cardiac care — ranging from a heart scan to the insertion of a pacemaker or reopening of a blocked artery — than at any time in history; a record 372,803 in February this year, according to NHS data. This is a 60 per cent jump on February 2020 figures.

Worse still, more than 136,000 had spent more than the NHS target of 18 weeks in the queue for potentially life-saving heart care and almost 10,000 had been waiting over a year for often time-critical heart tests and treatments.
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post 1680988153 04-17-2023, 01:47 PM
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People who want universal healthcare because other countries have it, never look at what makes up "universal" healthcare and why it "works" in those countries.

If universal healthcare came to the US, then everyone would have to say goodbye to their primary care doctor(s) and specialty doctors they have been working with for so many years.

Why? Because in a universal healthcare system, you get who you get, you don't get to choose - that's why it "works".



But, most people that want it are too NPC to look at how it functions, they just want it because the word "FREE" is attached to the method.
post 1680989693 04-17-2023, 02:11 PM
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remember when they said death panels wouldn't be a thing? Canada has gotten pretty darn close
post 1680989863 04-17-2023, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted By iamanalphamale⏩
People who want universal healthcare because other countries have it, never look at what makes up "universal" healthcare and why it "works" in those countries.

If universal healthcare came to the US, then everyone would have to say goodbye to their primary care doctor(s) and specialty doctors they have been working with for so many years.

Why? Because in a universal healthcare system, you get who you get, you don't get to choose - that's why it "works".



But, most people that want it are too NPC to look at how it functions, they just want it because the word "FREE" is attached to the method.
Some healthcare is better than none. Right now there are millions who avoid or do not have healthcare due to the cost. A public option would help a lot.
post 1680990283 04-17-2023, 02:19 PM
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what's stopping you from just paying a private healthcare facility? they have those even in countries with universal health.
post 1680990513 04-17-2023, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted By menseks⏩
what's stopping you from just paying a private healthcare facility? they have those even in countries with universal health.
Exactly.
post 1680990683 04-17-2023, 02:26 PM
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Criticisms of the US are because so much in the US system is convoluted and opaque on purpose, while "private" it is still government directed. Like military contractors are private, but their profits are at the whims of government. Most state governments get to decide whether clinics can open up in locations or not, based on "causing too much competition." That assures prices stay high and service is more inconvenient than it should be. And there are obvious money grabs, like Medicare not being allowed to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical companies the way American private insurers and the national health services of other countries do. Many, many Billions are wasted because of that.

Even though twice as much of the population in universal healthcare countries are covered by their public systems, the US still spends more per capita in our government insurance programs. So for all the criticisms of the private health sector, our government insurance programs piss away money like mad. There's now effectively a monopoly for healthcare software in the US, with the company contributing a ton to political campaigns, and that software is primarily a billing system, with care a very secondary aspect. Because of how it's set up clinicians spend more and more of their day in front of computer instead of actually working with patients. Essentially the private part of US healthcare goes like this: government controlled with private profits.
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post 1680990943 04-17-2023, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By Banderistan⏩
Some healthcare is better than none. Right now there are millions who avoid or do not have healthcare due to the cost. A public option would help a lot.
So because some people don’t want to work and won’t pay for their own insurance, everyone has to suffer with worse healthcare. Seems stupid.
post 1680991033 04-17-2023, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted By Banderistan⏩
Some healthcare is better than none. Right now there are millions who avoid or do not have healthcare due to the cost. A public option would help a lot.
But is it fair to then limit those who had healthcare from the beginning to now have to use whoever they have available, than someone you trust and are familiar with?

Only one said gains from this, not both.
Originally Posted By menseks⏩
what's stopping you from just paying a private healthcare facility? they have those even in countries with universal health.
Price.

Why should someone have to pay more out of pocket to get the same luxury they have now of being able to choose their primary care doctor(s) or doctor(s) to operate on them?



This system only works if its equal to everyone, but really, it only benefits those that don't have health insurance - everyone else gets penalized.
Originally Posted By adamsteve14⏩
So because some people don’t want to work and won’t pay for their own insurance, everyone has to suffer with worse healthcare. Seems stupid.
This.
post 1680991383 04-17-2023, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted By Banderistan⏩
Some healthcare is better than none. Right now there are millions who avoid or do not have healthcare due to the cost. A public option would help a lot.
That's the idea behind Medicaid expansion, which I never took issue with. It isn't great, but it's way better than nothing for the people who can't afford private insurance.
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post 1680992593 04-17-2023, 03:06 PM
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Communism doesn't work
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post 1680992703 04-17-2023, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted By Cleveland33⏩
remember when they said death panels wouldn't be a thing? Canada has gotten pretty darn close
How so?
post 1680993073 04-17-2023, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
How so?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2238319.html
Paralympian claims Canada offered to euthanise her when she asked for a stairlift

‘I have a letter saying that if you’re so desperate, madam, we can offer you... medical assistance in dying,’ Christine Gauthier told a Canadian veterans affairs committee

Sunday 04 December 2022

A Paralympic army veteran told stunned lawmakers in Canada when she claimed that a government official had offered to give her euthanisia equipment while fighting to have a wheelchair lift installed in her home.

Retired corporal Christine Gauthier, who competed at the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Paralympics, testified on Thursday that the unnamed veterans affairs case worker had offered in writing to provide her with a medically-assisted dying device, the CBC reported.

“I have a letter saying that if you’re so desperate, madam, we can offer you MAID, medical assistance in dying,” Ms Gauthier, 52, told a House of Commons veterans affairs committee, according to the CBC.

Three other disabled veterans are believed to have been offered the same equipment, according to Global News.

“We are following up with investigations and we are changing protocols to ensure what should seem obvious to all of us: that it is not the place of Veterans Affairs Canada, who are supposed to be there to support those people who stepped up to serve their country, to offer them medical assistance in dying,” Mr Trudeau was reported as saying.

Medical assistance in dying has been legal in Canada since 2016 for terminally ill residents.

The law was expanded in 2022 to people living with debilitating disabilities or pain, even if their lives aren’t at immediate risk.

Advocacy group Dying With Dignity describes the procedure as “driven by compassion, an end to suffering and discrimination and desire for personal autonomy.”

But some human rights advocates and religious groups say the regulations are open to abuse, lack necessary safeguards, and can devalue the lives of disabled people.

Testifying before the same committee last week, Canada’s Veterans Minister Lawrence MacAulay said that as many as five instances of veterans being offered the euthanasia equipment by a veterans affairs official had been referred to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
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post 1680993303 04-17-2023, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted By iamanalphamale⏩
People who want universal healthcare because other countries have it, never look at what makes up "universal" healthcare and why it "works" in those countries.

If universal healthcare came to the US, then everyone would have to say goodbye to their primary care doctor(s) and specialty doctors they have been working with for so many years.

Why? Because in a universal healthcare system, you get who you get, you don't get to choose - that's why it "works".



But, most people that want it are too NPC to look at how it functions, they just want it because the word "FREE" is attached to the method.
What you describe happens already in ‘Merica. Any time you change s job and get different insurance, or the company you work for changes insurance providers this can happen if your doctor does not accept the new insurance. What you describe is actually less likely as there would only be one payer, fuker.
post 1680993403 04-17-2023, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted By adamsteve14⏩
So because some people don’t want to work and won’t pay for their own insurance, everyone has to suffer with worse healthcare. Seems stupid.
We have that now. It’s called Medicaid, groomer.
post 1680993513 04-17-2023, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted By Stizzel⏩
Communism doesn't work
Many non commercial countries have single payer, groomer.
post 1680993533 04-17-2023, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted By keyboardworkout⏩
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2238319.html
How is an administrator speaking way outside of scope an example of a death panel?

VAC doesn't and can't offer euthanasia.
post 1680993753 04-17-2023, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted By IronFelix13⏩
Many non commercial countries have single payer, groomer.
Cool story commie
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post 1680993983 04-17-2023, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted By iamanalphamale⏩
But is it fair to then limit those who had healthcare from the beginning to now have to use whoever they have available, than someone you trust and are familiar with?

Only one said gains from this, not both.




Price.

Why should someone have to pay more out of pocket to get the same luxury they have now of being able to choose their primary care doctor(s) or doctor(s) to operate on them?



This system only works if its equal to everyone, but really, it only benefits those that don't have health insurance - everyone else gets penalized.




This.
You have a very poor understanding of the subject in question. Universal healthcare is a generic umbrella term to describe the concept of guaranteeing health coverage to everyone. It doesn't describe any particular model of healthcare.

You can have a system where everyone who wants private insurance can have it, but you also have a universally accessible public option for those who cannot afford private care. In fact that roughly describes most UHC systems in the developed world.

Every OECD country other than the US has universal coverage. Americans are unfortunately retarded.
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post 1680994043 04-17-2023, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted By Stizzel⏩
Cool story commie
No problem, child fuker
post 1680994183 04-17-2023, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By IronFelix13⏩
No problem, child fuker
the insurance premiums for fat retarded baldcels must be pretty high, he'd save a lot if the US switched to UHC
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post 1680994423 04-17-2023, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
You have a very poor understanding of the subject in question. Universal healthcare is a generic umbrella term to describe the concept of guaranteeing health coverage to everyone. It doesn't describe any particular model of healthcare.

You can have a system where everyone who wants private insurance can have it, but you also have a universally accessible public option for those who cannot afford private care. In fact that roughly describes most UHC systems in the developed world.

Every OECD country other than the US has universal coverage. MAGA republicans are unfortunately retarded.
Fixed your post.
post 1680994583 04-17-2023, 03:41 PM
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I’m okay with universal healthcare. But you get drug tests and fitness tests annually. If you fail you’re taxes sky rocket if you pass you get a tax deduction for that year
post 1680994693 04-17-2023, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted By IronFelix13⏩
Fixed your post.
To be fair even Democrats have been pretty weak with getting UHC through. It should have been done a long time ago, and could be as simple as opening Medicare eligibility to all people while keeping the private insurance sector as it is for those who want it. Things like Obamacare were just half baked non solutions.

But yes of course, Republicans are braindead to the nth degree.
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post 1680995373 04-17-2023, 03:55 PM
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I don't know why people argue for Universal healthcare in the US.

We basically already have it for the elderly and veterans and both systems suck complete ass.
post 1680995433 04-17-2023, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
To be fair even Democrats have been pretty weak with getting UHC through. It should have been done a long time ago, and could be as simple as opening Medicare eligibility to all people while keeping the private insurance sector as it is for those who want it. Things like Obamacare were just half baked non solutions.

But yes of course, Republicans are braindead to the nth degree.
Probably because big pharma and insurance companies have Dems by the balls too.
post 1680995463 04-17-2023, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By leafs43⏩
I don't know why people argue for Universal healthcare in the US.

We basically already have it for the elderly and veterans and both systems suck complete ass.
Two totally different systems ass hole.
post 1680995713 04-17-2023, 03:58 PM
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Will make social security cost go up
post 1680996513 04-17-2023, 04:08 PM
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The problem with decent universal health care is it has to be adequately funded and that funding has to account for an aging population like all countries are experiencing right now. Seniors put an insane strain on the system and most places (Canada included) are having to deal with high numbers of them without having accounted for it.

People during COVID were railing against seniors dying when these were people just sitting in nursing homes with zero quality of life, and frankly not only was dying a blessing for them and their families but it meant a needed bed was freed up. I honestly think they should give seniors an option to medically suicide every year after the age of about 75 - a lot of them would happily take it. You should also be able to give it to people with Alzheimers and severe dementia or things like MS and Parkinsons.

So either you pay high taxes, which they have in places like Germany and Norway or you have crappy care like in Canada and England. Or you pay out of pocket like in the US, most of which goes to corrupt inflation of service prices.
post 1680997063 04-17-2023, 04:14 PM
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universal health care with wide open borders is criminal.
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