Thread: So, unless you have a degree
05-23-2023, 06:07 AM
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#1
So, unless you have a degree
it's trades or being successful in sales if you want to make any kind of real money? (unless you manage to develop some successful entrepreneurial venture)
Why do people call college a scam, again?
Why do people call college a scam, again?
05-23-2023, 06:09 AM
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#2
05-23-2023, 06:12 AM
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#3
- BigTimeOperator
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It depends on if you have any in demand job skills and how rare they are.
05-23-2023, 06:15 AM
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#4
It's called a scam by some because often plumbers, electricians, and various construction workers make more and have steadier lives.
However, you can't really mingle with people of a certain class without a college degree. In the very least, it's a social necessity - a kind of rite of passage. It means you had the money and free time, and thus, you are 'in'. Next step up, giving back to the university. Which, in retrospect, I wish I hadn't done. I was deep in conversation with a dude, and we had a deal, so anyway.
It can also be used in a more practical way as a tool for personal advancement. Sometimes, when i reflect on how minimal my social involvement is, I wonder why the hell any of this was so important. I feel like in my career, I could have gotten by without it. But I really lacked confidence. That would probably have stayed with me forever. So I reluctantly concede that it may possibly have been worth it. but if I could go back I'd would recommend being a C student, with a liberal sprinkling of D's and F's. Straight A STEM = nerd maxxing. I could have had so much more fun than I did. I sincerely regret that. If you go to college, take my advice and be a party animal. Make some good memories and enjoy life.
However, you can't really mingle with people of a certain class without a college degree. In the very least, it's a social necessity - a kind of rite of passage. It means you had the money and free time, and thus, you are 'in'. Next step up, giving back to the university. Which, in retrospect, I wish I hadn't done. I was deep in conversation with a dude, and we had a deal, so anyway.
It can also be used in a more practical way as a tool for personal advancement. Sometimes, when i reflect on how minimal my social involvement is, I wonder why the hell any of this was so important. I feel like in my career, I could have gotten by without it. But I really lacked confidence. That would probably have stayed with me forever. So I reluctantly concede that it may possibly have been worth it. but if I could go back I'd would recommend being a C student, with a liberal sprinkling of D's and F's. Straight A STEM = nerd maxxing. I could have had so much more fun than I did. I sincerely regret that. If you go to college, take my advice and be a party animal. Make some good memories and enjoy life.
05-23-2023, 06:16 AM
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#5
- johnnydeep1
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College degrees are useful if you get a useful degree. Do accounting, finance or stem
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05-23-2023, 06:17 AM
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#6
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Tradies and other professions have to use their labor. Other professions use their intellect.
05-23-2023, 06:19 AM
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#7
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^ yeah, low paying food and retal jobs are such that any idiot can be trained to do.
05-23-2023, 06:21 AM
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#8
- Bodhy
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College isn't a scam at all, basically a necessity these days. Bachelors degree = high school diploma, now.
The thing is the wealth of majors that aren't all that useful apart from contributing to the student loan crisis. If you're not a STEM or engineering cel, consider your bachelors as nothing more than a stepping stone to grad school. Either Law, Medicine or do a PhD from there on in.
A lot of people aren't cut out for sales. They're not jobs for incels or socially awkward people, and it's easy to get fired. Also, low IQ tradie? LOL.
Stay in school, just choose degree program wisely.
The thing is the wealth of majors that aren't all that useful apart from contributing to the student loan crisis. If you're not a STEM or engineering cel, consider your bachelors as nothing more than a stepping stone to grad school. Either Law, Medicine or do a PhD from there on in.
A lot of people aren't cut out for sales. They're not jobs for incels or socially awkward people, and it's easy to get fired. Also, low IQ tradie? LOL.
Stay in school, just choose degree program wisely.
Back off, Warchild.
Seriously.
05-23-2023, 06:21 AM
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#9
05-23-2023, 06:23 AM
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#10
- Jacobcapra
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College is only a scam if you study a useless field.
No one wants to tell the biology major that unless they are planning to become a doctor, there is 0 use for a bachelor's degree and a very limited field for PhD's.
And that's not even a traditionally useless field, like business, marketing, graphic design, arts, etc.
No one wants to tell the biology major that unless they are planning to become a doctor, there is 0 use for a bachelor's degree and a very limited field for PhD's.
And that's not even a traditionally useless field, like business, marketing, graphic design, arts, etc.
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05-23-2023, 06:26 AM
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#11
Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
But what is "useful". Is everything all about making money? What about making the world into a better place by celebrating our humanity? I find the disrespect toward the humanities to be one of the most depressing, knuckle-dragging, barbaric aspects of the misc. It's frankly vulgar. Honestly, I can enjoy the body of an uneducated man, but I can't imagine having respect or a close interaction with a person who was culturally illiterate. It would be an embarrassment. What would you even talk about?College isn't a scam at all, basically a necessity these days. Bachelors degree = high school diploma, now.
The thing is the wealth of majors that aren't all that useful apart from contributing to the student loan crisis. If you're not a STEM or engineering cel, consider your bachelors as nothing more than a stepping stone to grad school. Either Law, Medicine or do a PhD from there on in.
A lot of people aren't cut out for sales. They're not jobs for incels or socially awkward people, and it's easy to get fired. Also, low IQ tradie? LOL.
Stay in school, just choose degree program wisely.
The thing is the wealth of majors that aren't all that useful apart from contributing to the student loan crisis. If you're not a STEM or engineering cel, consider your bachelors as nothing more than a stepping stone to grad school. Either Law, Medicine or do a PhD from there on in.
A lot of people aren't cut out for sales. They're not jobs for incels or socially awkward people, and it's easy to get fired. Also, low IQ tradie? LOL.
Stay in school, just choose degree program wisely.
05-23-2023, 06:29 AM
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#12
- BigTimeOperator
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I agree that the college experience should be about learning and expanding your mind and becoming a well rounded person as well as being able to make money. You should strive for both. That's why taking some classes in art and history and philisophy is just as important as business course or whatever.
05-23-2023, 06:29 AM
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#13
- Midgetkiller
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If money is what you want, go for it. Certain degrees get you there.
I wanted money so I got a law degree. So I can break my hands and legs and I'm still good to earn.
You can also earn an absolute killing with a trade and a decent mind.
Now if you do something like gender studies... Goodbye. have fun with your crippling debt and job at Walmart earning peanuts.
I wanted money so I got a law degree. So I can break my hands and legs and I'm still good to earn.
You can also earn an absolute killing with a trade and a decent mind.
Now if you do something like gender studies... Goodbye. have fun with your crippling debt and job at Walmart earning peanuts.
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05-23-2023, 06:33 AM
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#14
- Bodhy
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Originally Posted By MegaSloot⏩
I've got massive respect for the humanities, I'm educated in the humanities (but also science), and I've spoken at conferences on the detriment of neglecting the humanities.But what is "useful". Is everything all about making money? What about making the world into a better place by celebrating our humanity? I find the disrespect toward the humanities to be one of the most depressing, knuckle-dragging, barbaric aspects of the misc. It's frankly vulgar. Honestly, I can enjoy the body of an uneducated man, but I can't imagine having respect or a close interaction with a person who was culturally illiterate. It would be an embarrassment. What would you even talk about?
I'm just saying, humanities bachelors are best used as a springboard to grad school. We should have more researchers in interdisciplinary fields and humanities training is invaluable there, so by all means, obtain a PhD if the idea of researching as a career is appealing.
Back off, Warchild.
Seriously.
05-23-2023, 06:33 AM
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#15
05-23-2023, 06:38 AM
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#16
Used to be "worth it", but now maybe not.
- was something mainly enjoyed by the upper class before school loans
- started being required by employers for most any job past entry level because high school diplomas were devalued by "social promotion"
- increased number of students [student loans] + reduced quality of students [crap high schools] lead to an expansion in the college business...higher prices, BS degrees, bloating of decent degrees with prerequisites
- market stuff...more people with degrees > advantage of having a degree reduced
And now there is a segment of people who are so over the ideology being taught in most colleges they are actively against their kids attending.
- was something mainly enjoyed by the upper class before school loans
- started being required by employers for most any job past entry level because high school diplomas were devalued by "social promotion"
- increased number of students [student loans] + reduced quality of students [crap high schools] lead to an expansion in the college business...higher prices, BS degrees, bloating of decent degrees with prerequisites
- market stuff...more people with degrees > advantage of having a degree reduced
And now there is a segment of people who are so over the ideology being taught in most colleges they are actively against their kids attending.
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05-23-2023, 06:38 AM
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#17
Originally Posted By BigTimeOperator⏩
well said. The European style of education is far superior. They stay in school until they are done with it. You end up being a well rounded person at the end who can hold up their end of a conversation. I didn't finish in 4 years, but I was taking graduate level humanities classes and loving it. Maybe that was excessive, but I sincerely loved it. In the end, it's the art, anthropology, ethics, and literature electives that I am the most grateful for. No one is going to be an expert in everything, but you have to know some basic things.I agree that the college experience should be about learning and expanding your mind and becoming a well rounded person as well as being able to make money. You should strive for both. That's why taking some classes in art and history and philisophy is just as important as business course or whatever.
05-23-2023, 06:41 AM
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#18
Originally Posted By katya422⏩
It's not just upper classes. If you are a high achieving high school student, opportunities abound. I was working in the Harvard Biology labs at age 15. Sure, only the most fanatical students get those chances, but they are there in the US. It's by no means only the rich who are educated. In fact, some celebrities and super rich folk aren't quite as learned as they would have you believe.Used to be "worth it", but now maybe not.
- was something mainly enjoyed by the upper class before school loans
- started being required by employers for most any job past entry level because high school diplomas were devalued by "social promotion"
- increased number of students [student loans] + reduced quality of students [crap high schools] lead to an expansion in the college business...higher prices, BS degrees, bloating of decent degrees with prerequisites
- market stuff...more people with degrees > advantage of having a degree reduced
And now there is a segment of people who are so over the ideology being taught in most colleges they are actively against their kids attending.
- was something mainly enjoyed by the upper class before school loans
- started being required by employers for most any job past entry level because high school diplomas were devalued by "social promotion"
- increased number of students [student loans] + reduced quality of students [crap high schools] lead to an expansion in the college business...higher prices, BS degrees, bloating of decent degrees with prerequisites
- market stuff...more people with degrees > advantage of having a degree reduced
And now there is a segment of people who are so over the ideology being taught in most colleges they are actively against their kids attending.
05-23-2023, 06:56 AM
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#19
- DrewDarden
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There are a couple of problems with the Misc echo chamber consensus on college degrees.
First, Misc wants you to think that a degree from any school besides Vanderbilt, Harvard, Stanford, USC, etc. is worthless.
Second, Misc wants you to think college is a scam because it's too expensive.
But what if I told you you don't have to spend six figures (or even close) on college degrees? I have an associate's degree, a bachelor's degree, and a master's degree. I'm currently enrolled in an EdD program.
So for a total of $37,000 (just to be clear, that total includes all degrees), I'll have a terminal degree, and every one of my degrees are regionally accredited. Not one of them is from a fancy school, but no one cares. Next year (and feasibly for the next twenty years if I stay with the same organization) I'll make $15,000 more than someone with just a bachelor's degree in the same position because my degrees check the boxes of regional accreditation.
So yes, the "spend $250,000 on degrees to work at Starbucks" is a meme for a reason. I guess there really are people who do that. But that's on them, not the institution of college.
Now as others have mentioned, if you're someone who likes building things or otherwise working with your hands, go do the trade thing and make as much money as you can. There is no one-size-fits-all.
First, Misc wants you to think that a degree from any school besides Vanderbilt, Harvard, Stanford, USC, etc. is worthless.
Second, Misc wants you to think college is a scam because it's too expensive.
But what if I told you you don't have to spend six figures (or even close) on college degrees? I have an associate's degree, a bachelor's degree, and a master's degree. I'm currently enrolled in an EdD program.
So for a total of $37,000 (just to be clear, that total includes all degrees), I'll have a terminal degree, and every one of my degrees are regionally accredited. Not one of them is from a fancy school, but no one cares. Next year (and feasibly for the next twenty years if I stay with the same organization) I'll make $15,000 more than someone with just a bachelor's degree in the same position because my degrees check the boxes of regional accreditation.
So yes, the "spend $250,000 on degrees to work at Starbucks" is a meme for a reason. I guess there really are people who do that. But that's on them, not the institution of college.
Now as others have mentioned, if you're someone who likes building things or otherwise working with your hands, go do the trade thing and make as much money as you can. There is no one-size-fits-all.
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05-23-2023, 07:01 AM
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#20
- Jacobcapra
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Originally Posted By DrewDarden⏩
Yeah that is very true, with the right degree. CS, IT, engineering, nursing, probably more. After a year of work no one really cares where you went to school.There are a couple of problems with the Misc echo chamber consensus on college degrees.
First, Misc wants you to think that a degree from any school besides Vanderbilt, Harvard, Stanford, USC, etc. is worthless.
Second, Misc wants you to think college is a scam because it's too expensive.
But what if I told you you don't have to spend six figures (or even close) on college degrees? I have an associate's degree, a bachelor's degree, and a master's degree. I'm currently enrolled in an EdD program.
So for a total of $37,000 (just to be clear, that total includes all degrees), I'll have a terminal degree, and every one of my degrees are regionally accredited. Not one of them is from a fancy school, but no one cares. Next year (and feasibly for the next twenty years if I stay with the same organization) I'll make $15,000 more than someone with just a bachelor's degree in the same position because my degrees check the boxes of regional accreditation.
So yes, the "spend $250,000 on degrees to work at Starbucks" is a meme for a reason. I guess there really are people who do that. But that's on them, not the institution of college.
Now as others have mentioned, if you're someone who likes building things or otherwise working with your hands, go do the trade thing and make as much money as you can. There is no one-size-fits-all.
First, Misc wants you to think that a degree from any school besides Vanderbilt, Harvard, Stanford, USC, etc. is worthless.
Second, Misc wants you to think college is a scam because it's too expensive.
But what if I told you you don't have to spend six figures (or even close) on college degrees? I have an associate's degree, a bachelor's degree, and a master's degree. I'm currently enrolled in an EdD program.
So for a total of $37,000 (just to be clear, that total includes all degrees), I'll have a terminal degree, and every one of my degrees are regionally accredited. Not one of them is from a fancy school, but no one cares. Next year (and feasibly for the next twenty years if I stay with the same organization) I'll make $15,000 more than someone with just a bachelor's degree in the same position because my degrees check the boxes of regional accreditation.
So yes, the "spend $250,000 on degrees to work at Starbucks" is a meme for a reason. I guess there really are people who do that. But that's on them, not the institution of college.
Now as others have mentioned, if you're someone who likes building things or otherwise working with your hands, go do the trade thing and make as much money as you can. There is no one-size-fits-all.
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05-23-2023, 07:22 AM
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#21
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You can get some type of administrative entry level job in any field and progress upwards with no degree. If you only care about money you could be a senior regional lawnmower blade quality officer or some random chit you would have no idea existed and make stupid money but it all depends on if you even fit as a person
05-23-2023, 07:28 AM
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#22
- Ironmanlet
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...ttainment.htmlCollege isn't a scam at all, basically a necessity these days. Bachelors degree = high school diploma, now.
The thing is the wealth of majors that aren't all that useful apart from contributing to the student loan crisis. If you're not a STEM or engineering cel, consider your bachelors as nothing more than a stepping stone to grad school. Either Law, Medicine or do a PhD from there on in.
A lot of people aren't cut out for sales. They're not jobs for incels or socially awkward people, and it's easy to get fired. Also, low IQ tradie? LOL.
Stay in school, just choose degree program wisely.
The thing is the wealth of majors that aren't all that useful apart from contributing to the student loan crisis. If you're not a STEM or engineering cel, consider your bachelors as nothing more than a stepping stone to grad school. Either Law, Medicine or do a PhD from there on in.
A lot of people aren't cut out for sales. They're not jobs for incels or socially awkward people, and it's easy to get fired. Also, low IQ tradie? LOL.
Stay in school, just choose degree program wisely.
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05-23-2023, 07:45 AM
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#23
- TappingTheZen
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Degrees are a scam to a point, because it's been turned into a business churning out useless degrees for all, allowing them to make money. The fact that you're essentially claiming that you need a degree in this thread is kind of proof the whole system is a scam, degrees are so common now that they really do very little to differentiate people with different ability.
STEM degrees are still useful however for many fields, but overall universities now own a monopoly over our working lives, and you require a degree for many of the most basic kinds of jobs... that's exactly why it's a scam. Realistically, if you aren't after an academic career degrees are not that useful, but a system has been created where you need a degree anyway. Stupid af. If the system didn't exist the way it did, with universities monopolising the job market, degrees would be absolutely useless for 90% of jobs.
STEM degrees are still useful however for many fields, but overall universities now own a monopoly over our working lives, and you require a degree for many of the most basic kinds of jobs... that's exactly why it's a scam. Realistically, if you aren't after an academic career degrees are not that useful, but a system has been created where you need a degree anyway. Stupid af. If the system didn't exist the way it did, with universities monopolising the job market, degrees would be absolutely useless for 90% of jobs.
05-23-2023, 07:45 AM
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#24
Originally Posted By Jacobcapra⏩
There's truth in the idea of working to distinguish oneself - for example I've met some widely traveled persons who can actually seem educated and pleasant to be around. Generally however, ivy educations show and it's cope to think that the general public is going to feel the same as a harvard doctor.Yeah that is very true, with the right degree. CS, IT, engineering, nursing, probably more. After a year of work no one really cares where you went to school.
Going from speaking to an ivy educated person, vs your average joe blow is like stepping into ice water. It's a different world.
For example. A harvard doctor would see grace and beauty in the submissive female. An average tradie, (male or female) would see the submissive female as a person who, as a miscer told me recently, "has no dignity or self respect." That's by no means the only example, just one of many. It makes a huge difference. The uncultured person is largely informed by superstitious religious belief rather than love.
05-23-2023, 07:48 AM
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#25
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I still think college pays off in the long run. At least with a degree, you'll most likely be working in an air conditioned building at a computer with benefits or WFH. It's much better than physical labor in 90 degree weather with lower pay and little or no benefits.
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05-23-2023, 08:02 AM
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#26
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Originally Posted By MegaSloot⏩
The fact is that you don't have any dignity or self respect, and it's nothing to do with being 'submissive'. Any well educated man would see exactly the same thing, nice cope though.There's truth in the idea of working to distinguish oneself - for example I've met some widely traveled persons who can actually seem educated and pleasant to be around. Generally however, ivy educations show and it's cope to think that the general public is going to feel the same as a harvard doctor.
Going from speaking to an ivy educated person, vs your average joe blow is like stepping into ice water. It's a different world.
For example. A harvard doctor would see grace and beauty in the submissive female. An average tradie, (male or female) would see the submissive female as a person who, as a miscer told me recently, "has no dignity or self respect." That's by no means the only example, just one of many. It makes a huge difference. The uncultured person is largely informed by superstitious religious belief rather than love.
Going from speaking to an ivy educated person, vs your average joe blow is like stepping into ice water. It's a different world.
For example. A harvard doctor would see grace and beauty in the submissive female. An average tradie, (male or female) would see the submissive female as a person who, as a miscer told me recently, "has no dignity or self respect." That's by no means the only example, just one of many. It makes a huge difference. The uncultured person is largely informed by superstitious religious belief rather than love.
05-23-2023, 08:07 AM
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#27
Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
Between 2011 and 2021, the percentage of people age 25 and older who had completed a bachelor's degree or higher increased by 7.5 percentage points from 30.4% to 37.9%.
About 38% of people over 25 have a bachelor's. 10.5% have an associate's and 14% an advanced degree.They don't give the percentage of population with a master's degree and put it at 24 million people. I found about 35% of US population is under 25 w/a population of about 332 million. So 215.8 million over age 25 roughly would make 24 million people about 11% of those over age 25.
38 + 10 + 14 + 11 = 73% of US adults over age 25 with an associate's degree or better
And despite 73% having some sort of degree we still have a median income like this-
https://wallethacks.com/average-medi...e%20population.
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05-23-2023, 08:21 AM
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#28
- Jacobcapra
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
73% of adults is a huge overestimate. Instead of doing the backwards calculations, you can just google it. It's about 44% of adults age 25 and over with any form of post-high school degree.About 38% of people over 25 have a bachelor's. 10.5% have an associate's and 14% an advanced degree.
They don't give the percentage of population with a master's degree and put it at 24 million people. I found about 35% of US population is under 25 w/a population of about 332 million. So 215.8 million over age 25 roughly would make 24 million people about 11% of those over age 25.
38 + 10 + 14 + 11 = 73% of US adults over age 25 with an associate's degree or better
And despite 73% having some sort of degree we still have a median income like this-
https://wallethacks.com/average-medi...e%20population.
They don't give the percentage of population with a master's degree and put it at 24 million people. I found about 35% of US population is under 25 w/a population of about 332 million. So 215.8 million over age 25 roughly would make 24 million people about 11% of those over age 25.
38 + 10 + 14 + 11 = 73% of US adults over age 25 with an associate's degree or better
And despite 73% having some sort of degree we still have a median income like this-
https://wallethacks.com/average-medi...e%20population.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/an...gree%20holders.
The problem is you are adding up associates, bachelor's and post-grad degrees not realizing that many that hold a bachelor'salsoattained an associates, and so on for the post-grad degrees. They do not simply stack.
Second, the median income you shared includes ALL earners, including part time employees and young adults. There are several million teens working full or part-time jobs, and in total nearly 28 million part-time workers. That significantly drags down the median earnings.
According to the bureau of labor statistics, the average income forfull-timeworkers is significantly higher at about $55K.
https://www.firstrepublic.com/insigh...0and%20savings.
As a comparison, that is almost identical to the average STARTING salary for a college graduate in the US.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/coll...eality-4142305
And that includes crappy jobs.
The average starting salary for CS in 2022 is $76K. For engineering it's $74K. Math and sciences have an average starting salary of $67K.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/stude...ege-graduates/
All that to say, which is already well known, college is 100% worth it if you pursue a degree that actually pays. Right out the gate you will be making more than the average high school graduate who is well established in their career, by a large margin.
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05-23-2023, 08:22 AM
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#29
- HMFIC_BROWSIN
- Buy high, sell higher.
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- HMFIC_BROWSIN
- Buy high, sell higher.
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Originally Posted By Jacobcapra⏩
Let's be honest, probably like 60% of people in college are studying something completely useless.College is only a scam if you study a useless field.
05-23-2023, 08:28 AM
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#30
- iamdetermined
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Originally Posted By MegaSloot⏩
The first half was true for the most part but this is terrible advice. I mean partying was fun but you can still do that throughout your 20s with the disposable income to make it worth it. Not to mention the detriments of the party lifestyle. You're probably suffering from a grass is greener mindset cause I partied a lot and wish I focused more on school or saving my money. I made it out okay but partying is a huge waste of time and the memories don't pay the bills or contribute to your net worth.but if I could go back I'd would recommend being a C student, with a liberal sprinkling of D's and F's. Straight A STEM = nerd maxxing. I could have had so much more fun than I did. I sincerely regret that. If you go to college, take my advice and be a party animal. Make some good memories and enjoy life.
Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; and if it is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.
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