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» Fuk misc, I could pay off my mortgage in 4 years
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post 1683665653 05-30-2023, 11:57 AM
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#31
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Kids that expensive these days? How you spending 8k a month wtf.
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post 1683665793 05-30-2023, 12:00 PM
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Don’t spend the extra money once it’s paid off. Invest it. Prepare for your retirement. You don’t want to still be working in your late 60s-70s
post 1683665853 05-30-2023, 12:01 PM
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#33
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3 in daycare still and it's crazy seeing how much money you spend in a month. Can't wait till last one out of it then we will be living the life.

Think when I did our monthly expenses last time it was around 10k.

Between mortgage and daycare easy 5k just there
post 1683666013 05-30-2023, 12:04 PM
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#34
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Mirin hard as always
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post 1683666063 05-30-2023, 12:05 PM
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#35
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Originally Posted By mezner09
Kids that expensive these days? How you spending 8k a month wtf.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...post1683655513
Originally Posted By FoulSmell
Don’t spend the extra money once it’s paid off. Invest it. Prepare for your retirement. You don’t want to still be working in your late 60s-70s
Well a big motivator is to get a lake house, I'd consider that an investment. I'd probably beef up my brokerage and take a few years to save up like 6 figures before pulling the trigger on a second property. Look to pay that one off in 5-10 years as well, which should be doable. Probably start looking at investment properties around that time as well.
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post 1683666143 05-30-2023, 12:06 PM
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#36
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Originally Posted By FoulSmell
Don’t spend the extra money once it’s paid off. Invest it. Prepare for your retirement. You don’t want to still be working in your late 60s-70s
There is an element of behavioral finance always at work. On paper, yes the math makes more sense to put the extra into the S&P or some other diversified index than it does to put it towards paying down the mortgage. However people don't stick to that plan. There is a good feeling in seeing the results of saving/budgeting with a 5 year goal than a 25 year retirement plan. That shorter-term goal will keep you motivated to actually keep the work up.

Why do you think so many old people die in the house they've been living in for 40 years and still have a mortgage? They just keep refinancing that 30yr and it starts all over again.
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post 1683666153 05-30-2023, 12:07 PM
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#37
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Originally Posted By Titansfan08
3 in daycare still and it's crazy seeing how much money you spend in a month. Can't wait till last one out of it then we will be living the life.

Think when I did our monthly expenses last time it was around 10k.

Between mortgage and daycare easy 5k just there
Don't you guys have family that will take care of your kids? Or maybe that's just not an American thing?
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1683666293 05-30-2023, 12:08 PM
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#38
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post 1683666313 05-30-2023, 12:08 PM
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#39
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If you have a 2.5% interest rate, that's the cheapest debt you'll ever have. The idea of being debt free is nice, but I'd recommend saving money and trying to pay the lake house in cash instead.
post 1683666543 05-30-2023, 12:11 PM
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#40
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Originally Posted By mezner09
Kids that expensive these days? How you spending 8k a month wtf.
Imagine if OP didn’t buy his house in the past and bought one now and had a 4000/month mortgage instead of a 2000 one

Anyway, Misc has some explaining to do

When there’s threads about incomes, there’s always these two groups of posters:

1. Posters coming in saying 100k income barely lets you live in a mediocre lifestyle in a major metro now even as a single guy no kids. Will never buy a home, have major investments, mostly paycheck to paycheck on this income etc

2. boomer posters that come in with the classic rebuttal “my great grandparents raised all 10 of my grandparents on a single nickel, if you can’t make things work with 100k you need Dave Ramsey”


Well here we go. A poster showing actual numbers in a medium cost of living metro needing 100k in just expenses. Honestly I looked at the budget, there’s a few hundred I could see you knocking off here and there but nothing major
Best lifts:
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post 1683666573 05-30-2023, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted By OliverHeldens
If you have a 2.5% interest rate, that's the cheapest debt you'll ever have. The idea of being debt free is nice, but I'd recommend saving money and trying to pay the lake house in cash instead.
Paying off the house is more than just paying off the house. That money will continue to grow while also giving his family a roof over their head. No other investment has that kind of perk.

Hell, you rinse and repeat 5 rimes and that's your retirement plus a nice nest egg for your kids.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1683666783 05-30-2023, 12:16 PM
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#42
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824
Paying off the house is more than just paying off the house. That money will continue to grow while also giving his family a roof over their head. No other investment has that kind of perk.

Hell, you rinse and repeat 5 rimes and that's your retirement plus a nice nest egg for your kids.
The home value will grow regardless of how fast OP pays down his mortgage though
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1683666823 05-30-2023, 12:16 PM
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#43
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$700 in groceries? Fuarkk kids not even once/10
But for a family of 4 it's not bad not brad.

My family programmed "debt free is freedom" into me so I'm in the "pay it all off" camp. You're doing great tho OP
post 1683666923 05-30-2023, 12:18 PM
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#44
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I would not pull out of Becca either
post 1683666973 05-30-2023, 12:19 PM
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#45
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Originally Posted By OliverHeldens
If you have a 2.5% interest rate, that's the cheapest debt you'll ever have. The idea of being debt free is nice, but I'd recommend saving money and trying to pay the lake house in cash instead.
Fair point, instead of paying my current mortgage I could just put the ~190K I save up right onto a lakehouse, or save up a bit longer and put even more down. Carrying two mortgages would not give me much financial independence, though.
Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT
Imagine if OP didn’t buy his house in the past and bought one now and had a 4000/month mortgage instead of a 2000 one

Anyway, Misc has some explaining to do

When there’s threads about incomes, there’s always these two groups of posters:

1. Posters coming in saying 100k income barely lets you live in a mediocre lifestyle in a major metro now even as a single guy no kids. Will never buy a home, have major investments, mostly paycheck to paycheck on this income etc

2. boomer posters that come in with the classic rebuttal “my great grandparents raised all 10 of my grandparents on a single nickel, if you can’t make things work with 100k you need Dave Ramsey”


Well here we go. A poster showing actual numbers in a medium cost of living metro needing 100k in just expenses. Honestly I looked at the budget, there’s a few hundred I could see you knocking off here and there but nothing major
Well I do live a pretty solid lifestyle. Also the daycare alone makes up like $22K of those expenses. And all of these bills are for a family - if you live by yourself, your gas, utilities, phone, groceries, gym, would all be less than half what I spend. I could easily see a pretty solid lifestyle for a single guy being more like $50K in expenses each year.
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post 1683667073 05-30-2023, 12:20 PM
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#46
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Originally Posted By LtGoose
$700 in groceries? Fuarkk kids not even once/10
But for a family of 4 it's not bad not brad.

My family programmed "debt free is freedom" into me so I'm in the "pay it all off" camp. You're doing great tho OP
700 for groceries for 4 seems really low if anything

1 dollar will buy you 250 calories if your being somewhat price conscious at the grocery store

If each person needs 2500 cals. That’s 10 dollars per person per day. 40 dollars per day/1200 per month for the whole fam is what I’d budget
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1683667283 05-30-2023, 12:24 PM
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paying a 2.5% mortgage early makes no sense - invest extra in to CD's, HYSA, stocks
post 1683667293 05-30-2023, 12:24 PM
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#48
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT
700 for groceries for 4 seems really low if anything

1 dollar will buy you 250 calories if your being somewhat price conscious at the grocery store

If each person needs 2500 cals. That’s 10 dollars per person per day. 40 dollars per day/1200 per month for the whole fam is what I’d budget
When the kids are older that will hold water. Right now at 4 and 2 they don't eat that much, maybe 1K cals a day each. I can usually stretch what I'd normally cook for two and feed them.
Originally Posted By SLapCHop
paying a 2.5% mortgage early makes no sense - invest extra in to CD's, HYSA, stocks
I get that, but getting back 1,200 - 1,300 each month would be big and allow me to dump thousands a month into investments. Also a 2028 payoff saves me almost $70K in interest compared to paying it off in 2051.
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post 1683667583 05-30-2023, 12:29 PM
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#49
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Originally Posted By monster0ultra
That right there is an idea for how to spend money today instead of letting it rot and inflate.

Feed the kids steak everyday so that they grow up to be moggers.
Dude the kids love some chicken breast, they will be freaks and I got them on that $1.99/lb. protein source
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post 1683667873 05-30-2023, 12:32 PM
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#50
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Originally Posted By monster0ultra
Steak is a lot more nutritious than chicken though. It costs more for a reason.
It costs more because it's more expensive to raise a cow than it is chickens. You get a few more minerals and some fat from steak over chicken, but chicken has more protein per weight. Rather just feed them chicken and they can get their micronutrients from a $0.70 can of beans.
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post 1683668083 05-30-2023, 12:35 PM
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#51
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Originally Posted By Jacobcapra
Also a 2028 payoff saves me almost $70K in interest compared to paying it off in 2051.
But you’d gain more than 70k in interest if you took that extra mortgage money and put it in a savings account/tbills/money market/whatever

At the end of the day all that matters is the interest rate

Paying off your 2.5 percent mortgage is mathematically identical to putting money in a 2.5 percent savings account

So your dilemma is like “is it better to put money in a 2.5% savings account or a 5% savings account”

Obviously the 5 percent is better
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1683668593 05-30-2023, 12:45 PM
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#52
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT
But you’d gain more than 70k in interest if you took that extra mortgage money and put it in a savings account/tbills/money market/whatever

At the end of the day all that matters is the interest rate

Paying off your 2.5 percent mortgage is mathematically identical to putting money in a 2.5 percent savings account

So your dilemma is like “is it better to put money in a 2.5% savings account or a 5% savings account”

Obviously the 5 percent is better
yes but the minimum payment into the 2.5% 'savings account' is pretty high, and a huge portion currently goes to interest rather than the principle.

Assume I can save 30K a year and just slap it in a brokerage account that gets 5% annually (assume a lump sum once per year to keep it simple), all the while making min payments on my mortgage till it's completed in 2051. Compare that to doing the same thing, but taking out 190K to payoff my mortgage in 2028, and now being able to put 45K (the extra $1,250 or so monthly mortgage payment on top of the $30K) in my brokerage each year until the same date, 2051.


I end up with more money in 2051 if I payoff my mortgage and have more income to throw in investments from 2028 onwards, than if I just paid my mortgage off with minimum payments.


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post 1683668653 05-30-2023, 12:46 PM
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#53
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Originally Posted By Jacobcapra
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...post1683655513





Well a big motivator is to get a lake house, I'd consider that an investment. I'd probably beef up my brokerage and take a few years to save up like 6 figures before pulling the trigger on a second property. Look to pay that one off in 5-10 years as well, which should be doable. Probably start looking at investment properties around that time as well.
It’s a bad investment. That’s just your way to justify doing it. (No offense).
The costs of a 2nd home will take away any idea of it earning for you, unless you rent it out. Taxes, insurance, maintenance, heat, electric, plus having to run to it whenever there is a big storm to make sure there’s no damage will end up costing you. Many states will tax you harder for property tax on a 2nd home as well.
post 1683668793 05-30-2023, 12:49 PM
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#54
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Originally Posted By FoulSmell
It’s a bad investment. That’s just your way to justify doing it. (No offense).
The costs of a 2nd home will take away any idea of it earning for you, unless you rent it out. Taxes, insurance, maintenance, heat, electric, plus having to run to it whenever there is a big storm to make sure there’s no damage will end up costing you. Many states will tax you harder for property tax on a 2nd home as well.
The tax situation is good for me personally, I already know where I will get a lake house and the tax rates there are ridiculous. my parents pay like 0.3% of their property value in taxes.

Surely it's not the best investment vehicle, but it has massive utility. And if I can continue to work from home, my wife could quit her job and we could live in the lakehouse year round and rent out my current house. But yeah I'm not saying it's some great investment vehicle, but it's not exactly burning cash either to purchase real estate.
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post 1683668853 05-30-2023, 12:50 PM
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#55
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT
The home value will grow regardless of how fast OP pays down his mortgage though
Yes. But the longer he takes to pay it, the more interest he pays.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1683668923 05-30-2023, 12:52 PM
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#56
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[QUOTE=Jacobcapra post_id=1683668593]yes but the minimum payment into the 2.5% 'savings account' is pretty high, and a huge portion currently goes to interest rather than the principle.

Assume I can save 30K a year and just slap it in a brokerage account that gets 5% annually (assume a lump sum once per year to keep it simple), all the while making min payments on my mortgage till it's completed in 2051. Compare that to doing the same thing, but taking out 190K to payoff my mortgage in 2028, and now being able to put 45K (the extra $1,250 or so monthly mortgage payment on top of the $30K) in my brokerage each year until the same date, 2051.


I end up with more money in 2051 if I payoff my mortgage and have more income to throw in investments from 2028 onwards, than if I just paid my mortgage off with minimum payments.


[/img]https://i.imgur.com/CA9BYcZ.png[/img][/QUOTE]Your doing your calculations wrong somehow if it’s showing an early payoff coming out on top. 5 percent is more than 2.5 percent and that’s the only two numbers that matter in the decision
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1683669333 05-30-2023, 12:58 PM
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#57
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT
Your doing your calculations wrong somehow if it’s showing an early payoff coming out on top. 5 percent is more than 2.5 percent and that’s the only two numbers that matter in the decision
You're welcome to do the numbers yourself. It's a pretty simple formula

The numbers are identical up till 2028. I'm simply taking the last year's balance, adding 5% and adding 30K each year. That formula persists the whole way for the lefthand column.

For the righthand column, starting in 2028 I subtract out 190K and start adding in 45K each year instead of 30K. Being able to add 50% more in investments and allowing that additional principle to compound starting from 2028 outweighs the negative hit from the 190K to payoff the mortgage, when you're considering I'm looking all the way out to 2051.


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post 1683669443 05-30-2023, 01:00 PM
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#58
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Originally Posted By Jacobcapra
Uh huh so what should I be doing then?
don't pay it off, you'll lose your tax shield, plus your mortgage rate is so low it makes even less sense, as inflation persists you will make more money from your wages thus that mortgage will actually cost you less and less each year in real terms.
post 1683669503 05-30-2023, 01:01 PM
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#59
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Originally Posted By ElArteSuave
don't pay it off, you'll lose your tax shield, plus your mortgage rate is so low it makes even less sense, as inflation persists you will make more money from your wages thus that mortgage will actually cost you less and less each year in real terms.
What tax shield? I take the standard deduction.
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post 1683669723 05-30-2023, 01:05 PM
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#60
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neverminded then, assumed you were doing itemized. made myself a little model because I have properties in three different states, basically gives you all the pertinent details
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