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Forum » Neurologic Manifestations of Long COVID
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Thread: Neurologic Manifestations of Long COVID

post 1686607313 07-16-2023, 08:02 AM
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#271
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Brain imaging and neuropsychological assessment of individuals recovered from a mild to moderate SARS-CoV-2 infection

"In this case–control study, we demonstrate that non-vaccinated individuals recovered from a mild to moderate severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus type 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection show significant alterations of the cerebral white matter identified by diffusion-weighted imaging, such as global increases in extracellular free water and mean diffusivity."

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2217232120

Difficult to attribute these results to vaccines.
Without knowing how they “supervised” their machine learning model and how they programmed the analysis tools it’s impossible to know what exactly they are determining in that study, regardless of how many fancy words they throw around.

“ We examined the predictive capacity of derived imaging markers employing a supervised machine learning approach (Fig. 5).”



We also don’t know what their python code looks like:

“All statistical analyses were conducted in Python 3.9.1”




However, when seeing what types of competing interests there are it can provide insight into what they may have “steered” their program towards concluding:


Competing interestsJ.G. has received speaker fees from Lundbeck, Janssen-Cilag, Lilly, Otsuka, and Boehringer outside the submitted work. J.F. reported receiving personal fees from Acandis, Cerenovus, Microvention, Medtronic, Phenox, and Penumbra; receives grants from Stryker and Route 92; is managing director of eppdata; and owns shares in Tegus and Vastrax, all outside the submitted work. C.G. reports personal fees from Abbott, Amgen, Bayer, Boehringer Ingelheim, Daiichi Sankyo, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, and Prediction Biosciences, outside the submitted work. G.T. has received fees as consultant or lecturer from Acandis, Alexion, Amarin, Bayer, Boehringer Ingelheim, BristolMyersSquibb/Pfizer, Daichi Sankyo, Portola, and Stryker, outside the submitted work. The remaining authors declare no conflicts of interest.
post 1686607533 07-16-2023, 08:07 AM
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#272
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I'm safe I got 70 boosters.

I still got covid anyway but it was only 99% as bad as it would have been otherwise
Would kick em in the nuts
post 1686607563 07-16-2023, 08:08 AM
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#273
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Without knowing how they “supervised” their machine learning model and how they programmed the analysis tools it’s impossible to know what exactly they are determining in that study, regardless of how many fancy words they throw around.
That's how MRI analysis works and the tools are cited.

Supervised machine learning uses labeled (ground truth) data to train the model.

If you want to review their code, it's here:
https://github.com/csi-hamburg/2022_...covid_imaging/
post 1686607963 07-16-2023, 08:19 AM
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#274
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
If only you got 71 boosters - they get effective around that mark.

Just LOL if you're not on the biweekly subscription plan.
So you're saying you shouldn't get boosted?
post 1686608143 07-16-2023, 08:23 AM
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#275
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
That's how MRI analysis works and the tools are cited.

Supervised machine learning uses labeled (ground truth) data to train the model.

If you want to review their code, it's here:
https://github.com/csi-hamburg/2022_...covid_imaging/
Were these the people “supervising” the machine learning to train the model??


However, when seeing what types of competing interests there are it can provide insight into what they may have “steered” their program towards concluding:


Competing interestsJ.G. has received speaker fees from Lundbeck, Janssen-Cilag, Lilly, Otsuka, and Boehringer outside the submitted work. J.F. reported receiving personal fees from Acandis, Cerenovus, Microvention, Medtronic, Phenox, and Penumbra; receives grants from Stryker and Route 92; is managing director of eppdata; and owns shares in Tegus and Vastrax, all outside the submitted work. C.G. reports personal fees from Abbott, Amgen, Bayer, Boehringer Ingelheim, Daiichi Sankyo, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, and Prediction Biosciences, outside the submitted work. G.T. has received fees as consultant or lecturer from Acandis, Alexion, Amarin, Bayer, Boehringer Ingelheim, BristolMyersSquibb/Pfizer, Daichi Sankyo, Portola, and Stryker, outside the submitted work. The remaining authors declare no conflicts of interest.
post 1686608213 07-16-2023, 08:24 AM
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#276
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Were these the people “supervising” the machine learning to train the model??

No.

They provide all of the code and data.
post 1686608333 07-16-2023, 08:27 AM
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#277
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
It is interesting to see how Slow Creep has completely ignored that part of the post.
While others ignore the main criticism that doesn't make sense.
post 1686608433 07-16-2023, 08:29 AM
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#278
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
Another really good article.

1. "but also impacts various other organ systems during the acute phase and well beyond (1, 5, 6).
Neurological symptoms, such as headache, fatigue, memory, and attention deficits, may significantly impede well-being in individuals suffering from COVID-19 sequelae (4, 7, 8).
Advancing our understanding of the underlying pathological mechanisms will be crucial for addressing future health care needs."
2. "findings indicate the presence of a prolonged neuroinflammatory response to the initial viral infection."
How's your sickly female friend doing? The one that was bed ridden for two weeks from the weakest variant, even though she was vaccinated?

Is she suffering from "Long Covid?" Who am I kidding, of course she is......
post 1686608553 07-16-2023, 08:30 AM
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#279
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So billions of people are suffering from "Long Covid?"

OP........."I didn't say that, point out the post where I said that......."

Now, let me post another study where people now have low T, and are impotent from the Rona.......
post 1686608593 07-16-2023, 08:31 AM
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#280
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
The exact test is an exact test.

You suggested their selected tests were invalid due to unequal sample sizes. Why do you think the parameter estimates were unstable?
No no, re-read my post. I did not say that all of their statistical tests are invalid. I said that assumptions are not met for some of their statistical tests because it's true - look at those violin plots. You're using your imagination to obtain a meaningful mean and standard deviation from those distributions.

There are bigger problems with the study. You have conveniently ignored all of them to focus on this minute issue, one line in my entire post.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I take it as yet another indicator that long covid might be real and impacting people and the economy.

Is it possible, that if covid was an engineered bioweapon designed to attack the West, that maybe it wasn't an epic fail?
Those two statements are not inclusive at all. Our response to COVID definitely impacted the economy, of this there is zero doubt. If you want to make the claim that "long COVID," specifically, is impacting the economy, that's a separate issue altogether. As for the China bioweapon theory, I've been saying this since the beginning and if this was their plan it worked perfectly: release a virus that provokes a response below the threshold of armed conflict, and rely on disinformation agents and hypochondriacs (i.e., you) and crooked paid-off politicians (use your imagination on this) to boost the signal and tank the US economy. It worked perfectly.
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post 1686608613 07-16-2023, 08:31 AM
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#281
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
No.

They provide all of the code and data.
Who supervised the training of the machine learning?
post 1686608713 07-16-2023, 08:33 AM
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#282
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
What causes the brain damage after covid infection when someone isn't vaccinated?

You suggested it's vaccines, not covid.
Source??
post 1686608853 07-16-2023, 08:35 AM
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#283
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Who supervised the training of the machine learning?
Regression is supervised machine learning.
post 1686609013 07-16-2023, 08:38 AM
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#284
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Regression is supervised machine learning.
Who created and/or selected the algorithm?
post 1686609053 07-16-2023, 08:40 AM
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#285
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
How's your sickly female friend doing? The one that was bed ridden for two weeks from the weakest variant, even though she was vaccinated?

Is she suffering from "Long Covid?" Who am I kidding, of course she is......
Nope!
There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
post 1686609083 07-16-2023, 08:41 AM
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#286
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Maybe she is still isolating in the garage?
Nope family reunion in South Carolina, will you ever get anything correct?
There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
post 1686609103 07-16-2023, 08:41 AM
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#287
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Maybe she is still isolating in the garage?
He had to walk her dog, because she was too weak, she just couldn't get out of bed. He said that she WAS vaccinated, but not boosted......
post 1686609123 07-16-2023, 08:42 AM
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#288
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
Nope family reunion in South Carolina, will you ever get anything correct?
Whoa, family reunion, gonna leave your mask at home?
post 1686609133 07-16-2023, 08:42 AM
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#289
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
He had to walk her dog, because she was too weak, she just couldn't get out of bed. He said that she WAS vaccinated, but not boosted......
2 different people, you are slipping badly old man!
There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
post 1686609163 07-16-2023, 08:43 AM
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#290
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Originally Posted By NuggzTheNinja⏩
No no, re-read my post. I did not say that all of their statistical tests are invalid. I said that assumptions are not met for some of their statistical tests because it's true - look at those violin plots. You're using your imagination to obtain a meaningful mean and standard deviation from those distributions.
Agreed. Point estimates and meaningless "confidence" intervals are poor practice with noisy and broadly distributed data.
There are bigger problems with the study. You have conveniently ignored all of them to focus on this minute issue, one line in my entire post.
I disagree. I think the authors identified many of the same limitations and state the work is exploratory.

Neither I, nor the authors, hold this up as a perfect or definitive study or data set
Those two statements are not inclusive at all. Our response to COVID definitely impacted the economy, of this there is zero doubt. If you want to make the claim that "long COVID," specifically, is impacting the economy, that's a separate issue altogether. As for the China bioweapon theory, I've been saying this since the beginning and if this was their plan it worked perfectly: release a virus that provokes a response below the threshold of armed conflict, and rely on disinformation agents and hypochondriacs (i.e., you) and crooked paid-off politicians (use your imagination on this) to boost the signal and tank the US economy. It worked perfectly.
My position is that together with the other organic signs of covid infection long covid infestations suggest it's possible the virus causes damage beyond acute infection.

Damage that does not appear to be prevented by current vaccines.
post 1686609573 07-16-2023, 08:50 AM
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#291
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
2 different people, you are slipping badly old man!
Sure Benny, how about that straight guy who got Monkeypox from bumping into someone at a concert? Is he doing okay?
post 1686609693 07-16-2023, 08:52 AM
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#292
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I sure hope there are garages in South Carolina, because if someone gets the sniffles, they need to go live in the garage!

It's the right thing to do when you "trust the science".
When grown adults make decisions, you can't change their minds.
There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
post 1686609783 07-16-2023, 08:53 AM
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#293
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Whoa, family reunion, gonna leave your mask at home?
It isn't my immediate family, it is hers; got dam you are swinging and missing badly today, go back to bed.
There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
post 1686609793 07-16-2023, 08:54 AM
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#294
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Who created and/or selected the algorithm?
The code is there to review.

Is there an unsupervised approach you think would have been better?
post 1686609853 07-16-2023, 08:55 AM
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#295
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Sure Benny, how about that straight guy who got Monkeypox from bumping into someone at a concert? Is he doing okay?
Never met him, 0 for 3 Dave struckout badly chasing way outside of the strike zone.
Dude needs batting practice or to stay on topic.
There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
post 1686610143 07-16-2023, 09:02 AM
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#296
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
When grown adults make decisions, you can't change their minds.
You're defending someone isolating in a garage???
post 1686610283 07-16-2023, 09:04 AM
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#297
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
Never met him, 0 for 3 Dave struckout badly chasing way outside of the strike zone.
Dude needs batting practice or to stay on topic.
Sure Benny, from the sounds of it, maybe it's a good thing you ARE vaccinated. You're 230lbs of dense, rock hard muscle. Who knows, if you somehow got the Rona, you might have suffered from "Long Covid."
post 1686610433 07-16-2023, 09:08 AM
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#298
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It’s a good thing I got those natural antibodies working for me. Haven’t been sick since Dec. 2019. Can’t say the same for every jabbed person I know
post 1686610543 07-16-2023, 09:10 AM
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#299
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Originally Posted By Paul
It’s a good thing I got those natural antibodies working for me. Haven’t been sick since Dec. 2019. Can’t say the same for every jabbed person I know
Natural antibodies to/from what antigen?
post 1686610953 07-16-2023, 09:18 AM
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#300
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So we should just believe miscers and uneducated rabble over actual scientists and doctors?
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