The reason they thought he was equal with God is because he said he existed BEFORE Abraham was. It's that simple

That's why they never said, "we're killing you because you say you're God"

No... they said equal with God, because the implication of him existing before Abraham. You have to cope so hard



"If Jesus had merely wanted to say He existed before Abraham’s time, He would have said, “Before Abraham, I was.”"

If he wanted to say he was God, he would have simply said he is Yahweh.

He didn't say "Before Abraham, God"



"He did not know the day or the hour because …read again Philippians..the verse I quoted you..think this time"


The context of him 'humbling' himself is "and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."


Even if I was a trinitarian i'd have to admit that makes no sense the way you're describing it. He lowers himself by allowing himself to be killed by sinners, not by clouding his mind so he can't know divine things lmao. Stop coping

the Trinity has been a debated and settled matter for thousands of years


not debating it, just my input for thread. bye

Wrong..again.. If Jesus had merely wanted to say He existed before Abraham’s time, He would have said, “Before Abraham, I was.” The Greek words translated “was,” in the case of Abraham, and “am,” in the case of Jesus, are quite different. The words chosen by the Spirit make it clear that Abraham was “brought into being,” but Jesus existed eternally (see John 1:1). There is no doubt that the Jews understood what He was saying because they took up stones to kill Him for making Himself equal with God (John 5:18). Such a statement, if not true, was blasphemy and the punishment prescribed by the Mosaic Law was death (Leviticus 24:11–14). But Jesus committed no blasphemy; He was and is God, the second Person of the Godhead, equal to the Father in every way.

Jesus used the same phrase “I AM” in seven declarations about Himself. In all seven, He combines I AM with tremendous metaphors which express His saving relationship toward the world. All appear in the book of John. They are I AM the Bread of Life (John 6:35, 41, 48, 51); I AM the Light of the World (John 8:12); I AM the Door of the Sheep (John 10:7, 9); I AM the Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14); I AM the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25); I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6); and I AM the True Vine -John 15:1, 5

Dude, I was raised in a Jewish home. I Am, means one thing, & one thing only. You don’t know the Bible, and you lead people to their death.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God.

“And the Word (Jesus) WAS GOD..the same




You also got it wrong on Rev.22..so I’ll ask again, who is speaking?

Let me guess, you are a moron or Jehova Witness..

It was settled by the council of nicea, which was where Satan had his throne at the time according to the book of revelation

Dude, you're an idiot

You're imposing mysticism on an English translation. Is Paul also Yahweh since you can catch him saying 'I am xxxx'???

It was settled in the Bible, stop listening to man


“ Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”
He said: “I am”

Lol, you can’t refute anything so your best response is ad hominem attacks. Yea, sure you are a Christian. Clearly SMH. You don’t have God’s Holy Spirit in you, & you need to repent. You lead men astray, and you will be judged for it. I promise you that

Is John the baptist part of the trinity now?

Read on..that’s the point, it’s a different I Am..in the Greek..not the same that Jesus declares. Do you even look into any of this, or do you just go on feels??

And again..who is speaking in Revelation 22?

" For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. "

Look at that, Paul said I am, therefore he's clearly saying he's Yahweh.


You already lost lol. "Before abraham was, God" isn't a phrase.

I AM is a title of God, jsut think of what you're saying


You're saying Jesus said, Before Abraham was title of God


but you're using an english translation to imply it's referring to two things at the same time. It's not, that doesn't make any sense, but you haven't bothered to pay attention to detail.

You're the one who needs to repent. You've made the trinity a salvation issue, you're going to have a bunch of coals heaped up for you on judgment day because of the measure you judge by.

I hope your doctrine is perfect, otherwise you're doomed.

Go ahead and say who it is instead of acting sly. I already gave you my view

not exactly.


the council took place like 200+ years after john wrote revelation



and the location is not the same anyway. nicea was in northeast turkey, while ancient pergamon was on the western coast of turkey


regardless, the trinity is one of the few things every single major denomination agrees on, whether catholic or orthodox or protestant



bible is full of supporting scripture on it.


okay i said i wouldnt debate, so thats it for me, good luck.

the context of Jesus saying "I AM" was clearly understood by the Pharisee who heard it, which is why they yelled blasphemy and wanted Jesus dead. they understood he was claiming to be God. this is why they were outraged and even picked up stones to stone him.


John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.



in jewish tradition, when you are SON OF, you belong to that House. By Jesus declaring I AM in that context, declaring God his Father, he was claiming he is essentially of the house of God, equal with God and being God.


whoever you have been listening to on this, they are misleading you.

He pinpointed Pergamos because that's where the throne of Zeus was. Satans throne isn't limited to a single city, it's a geographical region just like the other fallen angels

'I wrestle against the prince of persia, and after he's gone the prince of grecia comes' "paraphrasing"

John had revelation that out of that region would become all manner of blasphemy


but you also got that wrong... they're both on the west"Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’d? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?"

Why stop at what the Jews say? Your logic is that UNBELIEVING Jews believe something, so they were right

We should actually look at what Jesus said in response to them...

I’m literally telling you to look it up in the greek, you keep going on about an “English translation”..which is also probably why you could not defend your stance on the rapture, because you never looked up any of these verses in their original writings.

I’ll ask you again..who is speaking in Rev22..four times now I’ve asked.

When you finally figure that out, can a man, prophet, or Angel receive worship? Or only God?

Jesus himself clarifies he was claiming to be the Son of God, yet you still twist it and say he was claiming to be God. You're relying on tradition of man, not the words of Jesus.



"When you finally figure that out, can a man, prophet, or Angel receive worship? Or only God?"

What does worship mean?

Then David said to all the assembly, “Bless the LORD your God.” And all the assembly blessed the LORD, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and worshiped to the LORD and to the king.


Notice how it says worshiped to the lord and to the king, you know David is a shadow of the true king Jesus? Yet obviously this was a real event in which they 'worshiped' David.

you lack understanding of the high priest symbology

Jesus is the MEDIATOR between man and God. He directs all worship given to him to the Father, this is the role of the high priest.

I see, you are a Jehovah Witness. Makes sense now. As soon as you went to David’s worship, it was obvious.

Let’s see if you can get it right, the worship that David received translates to what in Hebrew?
(hint:it’s not the same as Godly worship lol)

Any progress on Revelation 22?

I'm not a Jehovahs witness. False accusation is a trait of the devil


it's the same worship "proskyneo" in the Greek used over and over to 'worship Jesus', yet apparently it's only Godly worship when you want it to be?

Yep, that's the killshot. You're a liar.

I asked you Hebrew..not Greek. This Israelites spoke Hebrew..not Greek. Lol

shachah is the same as proskenyo in the Septuagint. It's the same thing


And that's besides the point, you're implying David didn't receive Godly worship yet the same word is used for proving Jesus is God lol.

You said the major denominations agree, how does this make it right? You think orthodoxy and catholicism are both false, yet you're using them to affirm that if they both believe it makes it more true. That's illogical

It was never 'settled', just because somethings mainstream doesn't mean it's settled. There's always been people that argued otherwise


That being said, I'm not saying trinitarians aren't true Christians. It isn't a salvation issue, there's no chance the thief on the cross thought Jesus was God the Son the 2nd person of the trinity

It’s not the same as the worship attributed to God. the Hebrew word shachah is pay homage” or “bow down” ..even the English translations you so love is evident of it


NASB
“Then David said to all the assembly, “Now bless the Lord your God.” And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed low and did homage to the Lord and to the king,”.


NIV
“Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the LORD your God.” So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king,”.


NKJV
“Then David said to all the assembly, “Now bless the Lord your God.” So all the assembly blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord and the king,”.


ESV
“Then David said to all the assembly, “Bless the Lord your God.” And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king,”

BUT..if you anti-Trinitarians would only continue to read on..instead of taking out of context lol..

And David said to all the congregation, Now BLESS the Lord your God. And all the congregation BLESSED the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king. And they sacrificed sacrifices unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings unto the Lord, on the morrow after that day, even a thousand bullocks, a thousand rams, and a thousand lambs, with their drink offerings, and sacrifices in abundance for all Israel: and did eat and drink before the Lord on that day with great gladness. And they made Solomon the son of David king the second time, and anointed him unto the Lord to be the chief governor, and Zadok to be priest.” 1 Chronicles 29:20-22

Any update on Rev22?

How are you still missing the point?

I literally said that verbatium. The point is it's the same worship attributed to Jesus.


Jesus is our high priest. He brings worship to the Father. Period




Btw I just realized something, the same logic you use for the 'I am' is what satanists use for Jesus being Lucifer. Lmao

" I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

You are missing the point..I’m trying to walk you through this, but you seem to keep diverting. Nice tactic. Stay on point, (since you couldn’t with Rev.22..cause maybe you finally realized your ignorance on this)

Now..read again..


And David said to all the congregation, Now BLESS the Lord your God. And all the congregation BLESSED the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king. And they sacrificed sacrifices unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings unto the Lord, on the morrow after that day, even a thousand bullocks, a thousand rams, and a thousand lambs, with their drink offerings, and sacrifices in abundance for all Israel: and did eat and drink before the Lord on that day with great gladness. And they made Solomon the son of David king the second time, and anointed him unto the Lord to be the chief governor, and Zadok to be priest.” 1 Chronicles 29:20-22

Here is the king and the people blessing Yahweh and offering sacrifices to him. Now compare this with the following New Testament references:

“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God AND OF CHRIST, and shall reign with him a thousand years.” Revelation 20:6

“Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, that I should be THE MINISTER OF JESUS CHRIST (leitourgon 'Iesou Christou) to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that THE OFFERING UP (he phosphora) of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.” Romans 15:15-19



What does that tell you..think. Stop pivoting.

Snake. Your argument was Jesus is God because you can't worship anyone but God, then I showed you the same worship applied to Jesus is used throughout the old testament to non Gods.

Then you said 'dahhhh, u know there's more than 1 type of worship ritee?'



You clearly misunderstood my point, now you're making some symbolic statement between the OT and NT.

You lost.

You don’t understand what you read. The Bible gives you the answer, the worship received is not the same worship as David received, you are too incompetent to understand this, because you don’t read the Bible as a full book, but rather pick & choose out of context to fit your corrupt narrative.

Like Yahweh, Jesus has priests ministering before Him by offering up sacrifices to Him. Such service is ONLY ascribed to Yahweh, since one will never find a single instance where an angel or human being is offered sacrifices with God expressly approving it.

Not the same..get it now??

So what is your actual criticism or argument?



Because Jesus being the Son of God is what the doctrine of the Trinity actually states.

That God is not the author of confusion, when it says Jesus is the son of God it literally means he is the Son, not just a title.

Trinitarians say Jesus is the Son yet they reject all Sonship characteristics.

Jesus had a beginning which scripture says, the Father doesn't. He existed in the unknown forever. Jesus is the firstborn of all creation, begotten out of the substance of the Father himself which gives him unique attributes. Trinity says he didn't have a beginning which contradicts scripture

It's the same worship. David is the SHADOW of Christ. it's literally the entire reason they point to him in the OT, it's the exact same worship.


You're corrupting the scripture because you don't understand that Jesus is our high priest. The job of the high priest is to take our worship and send it to the Father.


The ironic thing is the verse you use for your stance literally distinguishes God from Christ... "but they shall be priests of God AND OF CHRIST,"



You know the funny thing? I haven't even began posting all the verses that prove the trinity false, yet you're still stumbling.

Jesus is God, separate, but under one God.
The best way to describe to an unbeliever is an egg has three parts, the yolk, the shell, and the white/albumen.

All distinct parts make up a single egg. (Not comparing an egg to God obviously, but it’s just a way of explaining it)