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Supreme Court case could imperil the entire US tax code
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08-09-2023, 06:08 AM
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#1
- gachase21
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Supreme Court case could imperil the entire US tax code
Historic Supreme Court case could imperil the entire US tax code
The Supreme Court has agreed to hear one of the most important tax cases in history, which could either greenlight the constitutionality of an economically disastrous wealth tax, or destroy critical parts of the U.S. tax system.
Unless the justices take a middle road and define the 16th Amendment according to the history and traditions of the U.S. tax system, the case will result in bad law and worse outcomes.
The case (Moore v. United States) concerns the constitutionality of the 2017 Tax Cut and Jobs Act (TCJA). The act imposed a mandatory repatriation tax on pre-2018 profits that companies and some U.S. shareholders stored abroad. Previously, foreign business profits went untaxed until they returned to U.S. shareholders. But under mandatory repatriation tax, passed as part of Republicans’ comprehensive international tax reform, profits were taxed even if shareholders never received the income.
The revenue from the mandatory tax helped raise an estimated $339 billion that contributed to offsetting other individual and corporate tax cuts, as well as broader international tax reform in the 2017 tax cuts.
The court faces a difficult question: Is this mandatory tax on foreign profits that shareholders never actually received constitutional under the 16th Amendment? The Supreme Court has maintained since 1920 that income must be “clearly realized” for it to be taxable. Yet the U.S. tax code is riddled with taxes on unrealized income.
For example, the main tenet of partnership tax law is that partners are taxed on income allocated to them for tax purposes, whether or not they actually receive the income. The Supreme Court upheld this principle in 1938, less than three decades after the 16th Amendment was ratified. Since 1962, the United States has also taxed the passive and highly mobile income of overseas corporations controlled by U.S. shareholders, whether or not the income is distributed to them, to prevent aggressive tax avoidance strategies. The TCJA’s mandatory repatriation tax fits within this existing international tax regime.
As any attorney will tell you, bad facts and consequences create bad law. Even if you have the law or the Constitution on your side, you will lose if your case leads to unacceptable outcomes. This is how unconstitutional laws are declared constitutional.
In Moore, the government is likely to win due to the irrevocable consequences of upending the current tax system. In briefing, the Justice Department focused heavily on the established constitutionality of these existing tax regimes. At oral argument, I expect the Solicitor General to highlight how a ruling that this tax is unconstitutional could destroy the partnership and international tax systems, which routinely taxes unrealized income. Justices will no doubt have these consequences in mind when they make their decisions.
Justices are going to want to uphold tax law to avoid the disastrous consequences they’ve already been briefed on, but originalism and wealth tax will bar their way. The original meaning in Black Law’s dictionary from 1910 claims that income must be “received” to be defined as such, and that any income that has not been received cannot be taxed. As much as the justices want to preserve longstanding principles of the U.S. tax system, they cannot do it without setting precedent against the original meaning of “income” and authorizing a wealth tax.
The Supreme Court’s best option to resolve this case fairly and with minimal destruction is to invoke its history and tradition tests that it is now using in its First and Second Amendment jurisprudence. Under this framework, a tax on unrealized income will be constitutional if it comports with the history and tradition of the income tax code.
The mandatory repatriation tax should be constitutional under this test, because the U.S. has a long history of taxing unrealized gains in its international tax code, having done so since 1962.
A history and tradition test would allow the Supreme Court to strike down a future wealth tax that has never been law before, and preserve the longstanding constitutional requirement that income be “clearly realized” for taxes on it to be constitutional.
A narrow decision that invokes a history and tradition test would be the best method for the Supreme Court to preserve the current U.S. tax system and constrain lawmakers from passing new unconstitutional taxes on wealth.
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...-tax-code/amp/The Supreme Court has agreed to hear one of the most important tax cases in history, which could either greenlight the constitutionality of an economically disastrous wealth tax, or destroy critical parts of the U.S. tax system.
Unless the justices take a middle road and define the 16th Amendment according to the history and traditions of the U.S. tax system, the case will result in bad law and worse outcomes.
The case (Moore v. United States) concerns the constitutionality of the 2017 Tax Cut and Jobs Act (TCJA). The act imposed a mandatory repatriation tax on pre-2018 profits that companies and some U.S. shareholders stored abroad. Previously, foreign business profits went untaxed until they returned to U.S. shareholders. But under mandatory repatriation tax, passed as part of Republicans’ comprehensive international tax reform, profits were taxed even if shareholders never received the income.
The revenue from the mandatory tax helped raise an estimated $339 billion that contributed to offsetting other individual and corporate tax cuts, as well as broader international tax reform in the 2017 tax cuts.
The court faces a difficult question: Is this mandatory tax on foreign profits that shareholders never actually received constitutional under the 16th Amendment? The Supreme Court has maintained since 1920 that income must be “clearly realized” for it to be taxable. Yet the U.S. tax code is riddled with taxes on unrealized income.
For example, the main tenet of partnership tax law is that partners are taxed on income allocated to them for tax purposes, whether or not they actually receive the income. The Supreme Court upheld this principle in 1938, less than three decades after the 16th Amendment was ratified. Since 1962, the United States has also taxed the passive and highly mobile income of overseas corporations controlled by U.S. shareholders, whether or not the income is distributed to them, to prevent aggressive tax avoidance strategies. The TCJA’s mandatory repatriation tax fits within this existing international tax regime.
As any attorney will tell you, bad facts and consequences create bad law. Even if you have the law or the Constitution on your side, you will lose if your case leads to unacceptable outcomes. This is how unconstitutional laws are declared constitutional.
In Moore, the government is likely to win due to the irrevocable consequences of upending the current tax system. In briefing, the Justice Department focused heavily on the established constitutionality of these existing tax regimes. At oral argument, I expect the Solicitor General to highlight how a ruling that this tax is unconstitutional could destroy the partnership and international tax systems, which routinely taxes unrealized income. Justices will no doubt have these consequences in mind when they make their decisions.
Justices are going to want to uphold tax law to avoid the disastrous consequences they’ve already been briefed on, but originalism and wealth tax will bar their way. The original meaning in Black Law’s dictionary from 1910 claims that income must be “received” to be defined as such, and that any income that has not been received cannot be taxed. As much as the justices want to preserve longstanding principles of the U.S. tax system, they cannot do it without setting precedent against the original meaning of “income” and authorizing a wealth tax.
The Supreme Court’s best option to resolve this case fairly and with minimal destruction is to invoke its history and tradition tests that it is now using in its First and Second Amendment jurisprudence. Under this framework, a tax on unrealized income will be constitutional if it comports with the history and tradition of the income tax code.
The mandatory repatriation tax should be constitutional under this test, because the U.S. has a long history of taxing unrealized gains in its international tax code, having done so since 1962.
A history and tradition test would allow the Supreme Court to strike down a future wealth tax that has never been law before, and preserve the longstanding constitutional requirement that income be “clearly realized” for taxes on it to be constitutional.
A narrow decision that invokes a history and tradition test would be the best method for the Supreme Court to preserve the current U.S. tax system and constrain lawmakers from passing new unconstitutional taxes on wealth.
Cliffs: it could be deemed unconstitutional to tax un-realized wealth - to do so you would need another constitutional amendment.
And taxes like that are scattered all over the code
08-09-2023, 06:47 AM
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#2
08-09-2023, 06:54 AM
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#3
- DanteEdmond
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- DanteEdmond
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Couldn't Congress just amend the law or something to make it constitutional
08-09-2023, 07:00 AM
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#4
08-09-2023, 10:05 AM
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#5
Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
Our patchwork tax system is pretty BS all around. And I don't believe that it is by accident that we are nickeled and dimed vs. having open taxation where every citizen knows very clearly how much of their money is being taken by various government taxation bodies. I know the usual story is that citizens in other industrial nations pay higher taxes than we do in the US, but I don't really believe it. I certainly don't believe that the actual total difference is consistent from state to state or income level to income level.https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...-tax-code/amp/
Cliffs: it could be deemed unconstitutional to tax un-realized wealth - to do so you would need another constitutional amendment.
And taxes like that are scattered all over the code
Cliffs: it could be deemed unconstitutional to tax un-realized wealth - to do so you would need another constitutional amendment.
And taxes like that are scattered all over the code
Originally Posted By metroins⏩
Well we can hope that it could set a precedent if this were struck down. Because I see the annual revaluation of property values as essentially equivalent to being taxed on profits that have not been realized.I would rather have property tax struck down.
Just watched a longish video about Utah and SLC. They have had a boom in inbound immigration much like TX and it seems to have hit their housing and property taxes very similarly. One local being interviewed said that most older adults he knows have adult children who have moved away due to the high costs there. Said single bedrooms in shared houses are renting for $800 a month. Also that the older generation there are often living in fully paid for properties which they themselves inherited and many of them are being wrecked with very high monthly property taxes of as much as a $1K a month or more. Said that an undeveloped acre of land with nothing but trees and grass could be valued @ $1M for taxation purposes in some areas.
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08-09-2023, 10:11 AM
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#6
Originally Posted By metroins⏩
I mean nobody likes property taxes but their use is pretty transparent, at least in my state. 2/3rds of it here goes to schools, the rest to police, fire, street maintenance, parks and rec, etc...so if you got rid of property taxes they'd just fund it with a massive sales tax, gas taxes, etc. Which is a better system, but they need the money to keep society civilized. Even though most governments are hyper incompetent and inefficient in the extreme. It be what it be.I would rather have property tax struck down.
08-09-2023, 10:29 AM
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#7
Originally Posted By Retoaded⏩
Well the sticky bit is that property tax does not track with income [ability to pay] and is linked to something which is meant to be subject to private ownership.I mean nobody likes property taxes but their use is pretty transparent, at least in my state. 2/3rds of it here goes to schools, the rest to police, fire, street maintenance, parks and rec, etc...so if you got rid of property taxes they'd just fund it with a massive sales tax, gas taxes, etc. Which is a better system, but they need the money to keep society civilized. Even though most governments are hyper incompetent and inefficient in the extreme. It be what it be.
Do you own something if the government is able to take it away any time given you no longer have the income to continue to cover their "rent" or lien against the property?
I tend to think that education funding should be radically re-imagined. As in a federal stipend per child funded by federal taxes + if desired a state stipend per child funded via state taxes.
I'm down with school choice and equal opportunity. A lot of education spending looks out of whack to me...districts with highly paid teachers and a lot of administration staff but withe crummy facilities...districts that seem to regularly spend a lot on new buildings and sports facilities.
You want a nicer sports stadium than many colleges? IMO that should be funded by the people who participate in that school...parents, booster clubs, student fund raisers, local sponsors, etc...not by anyone who happens to live inside some arbitrary boundary.
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08-09-2023, 12:54 PM
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#8
- RIKTER
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
Its not unconstitutional if Roberts says sohttps://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...-tax-code/amp/
Cliffs: it could be deemed unconstitutional to tax un-realized wealth - to do so you would need another constitutional amendment.
And taxes like that are scattered all over the code
Cliffs: it could be deemed unconstitutional to tax un-realized wealth - to do so you would need another constitutional amendment.
And taxes like that are scattered all over the code

08-09-2023, 01:52 PM
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#9
Originally Posted By katya422⏩
I would be OK with these things funded through sales tax but not income tax. Of course the people who live in the arbitrary boundary should fund the schools, police, and fire services that serve that arbitrary boundary....why would it be any other way?Well the sticky bit is that property tax does not track with income [ability to pay] and is linked to something which is meant to be subject to private ownership.
Do you own something if the government is able to take it away any time given you no longer have the income to continue to cover their "rent" or lien against the property?
I tend to think that education funding should be radically re-imagined. As in a federal stipend per child funded by federal taxes + if desired a state stipend per child funded via state taxes.
I'm down with school choice and equal opportunity. A lot of education spending looks out of whack to me...districts with highly paid teachers and a lot of administration staff but withe crummy facilities...districts that seem to regularly spend a lot on new buildings and sports facilities.
You want a nicer sports stadium than many colleges? IMO that should be funded by the people who participate in that school...parents, booster clubs, student fund raisers, local sponsors, etc...not by anyone who happens to live inside some arbitrary boundary.
Do you own something if the government is able to take it away any time given you no longer have the income to continue to cover their "rent" or lien against the property?
I tend to think that education funding should be radically re-imagined. As in a federal stipend per child funded by federal taxes + if desired a state stipend per child funded via state taxes.
I'm down with school choice and equal opportunity. A lot of education spending looks out of whack to me...districts with highly paid teachers and a lot of administration staff but withe crummy facilities...districts that seem to regularly spend a lot on new buildings and sports facilities.
You want a nicer sports stadium than many colleges? IMO that should be funded by the people who participate in that school...parents, booster clubs, student fund raisers, local sponsors, etc...not by anyone who happens to live inside some arbitrary boundary.
08-09-2023, 01:56 PM
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#10
- XterraRob
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- XterraRob
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1. Tax revenue based fiscal policy
2.. Deficit spending fiscal policy
Pick one.
The Federal government shouldn't be allowed to use both.
2.. Deficit spending fiscal policy
Pick one.
The Federal government shouldn't be allowed to use both.
The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
Education is humanity's key to salvation.
The 2nd Cold War has begun.
08-09-2023, 02:12 PM
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#11
Originally Posted By Retoaded⏩
Police, fire, and maintenance of shared spaces [roads, parks] all make sense as they are services in support of a residence. Security and maintenance are the sort of services you might pay condo fees for.I would be OK with these things funded through sales tax but not income tax. Of course the people who live in the arbitrary boundary should fund the schools, police, and fire services that serve that arbitrary boundary....why would it be any other way?
Education is a service provided to an individual in support of general community welfare. With modern transportation and communication there isn't any particular reason that it has to be assigned by address.
Imagine a more market style system where students can apply for entry to whichever school seems best to them. Could be a small neighborhood school with just a few teachers and couple of dozen kids. Could be a faith based private school. Could be an arts focused school. Or it could be a school focused on people with a shared learning disability or difference. Maybe a hands on training program for a skilled trade.
Seems to me that if we are okay with so many people only being literate on a 6th grade level that children should be able to pass tests showing basic proficiency in the 3 Rs and then be allowed to specialize in an area of interest or college preparation or apprenticeship/trade school.
We have a widget style school system meant to crank out factory workers or cubecels, but that isn't the sort of education/skill most in demand. If AI takes off as predicted we need humans who can do things machines aren't well suited for.
And just from a practical stance if we are experiencing falling birth rates why does it make sense for us to be investing more in education administration and expanding infrastructure if we could decentralize instead?
ETA: As much as we hate an income tax because we see it as compulsory vs. sales tax which is spun as discretionary an income tax isn't so regressive. A retiree with only $1,500 a month income still has to spend a certain amount for basic needs which are taxed whereas under an income tax their income may be too low to get hit, or may be taxed at a lower percentage rate.
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