This isn't a CT, though. Nobody really disputes it, although one poster came in to counter this narrative (and said they were in the industry) saying that big Pharm pays off doctors to peddle pretty much everything. I believe it and them, too.

See, this is a discussion. People presenting things, talking about it and taking the issue and delving deeper.

Now, as for me "being wrong" - not quite, although in one thread (to refresh your memory): A young semi-famous person had a stroke. I made the thread. I did not directly blame the vaccine. Then, even before bb.com could register that I made an edit, I had googled the individual, noticed she suffered from lupus since 6 and quickly edited the OP in the thread to reflect that. You can assign motive to me all you want, that maybe I was sitting at my keyboard laughing and gloating at some person suffering, but I can assure you it was more muted than that. Prior to knowing she had lupus, I found it odd. Nothing more, because even if she did not have lupus -- there is still a lot more distance to go before you can jump and directly blame anything over it.

And, more reminder: I am not one of these people who think the vaccines are poison. While I do think they carry some inherent risk, I also believe it's a handful out of thousands or tens of thousands, with varying degrees of harm. Everyone I know vaccinated personally has been fine, aside from one person who has had some issues post-vaccine and issues of a nature where it's hard to say what is the cause.

My constant main complaint: The environment created in the day. The one where truth was suppressed, free speech was taken over by censorship, where big money was used to silence and coerce hundreds of millions.

I don't think it makes me "anti vaccine" or what you called me, "off the deep end" to want actual open scientific discussion protected and for us to remember how for a time it was censored by greed. The vaccines to me are simply the embodiment of this, while I do not think they are particularly great and many do not need them, I'm not calling them clotshots or people who took them mudbloods or anything like that.

I simply think: We were lied to as how effective they were and how thoroughly they were tested. The dangers, as rare as they are, were covered up and dissenting opinions were censored - not just quackery or conspiratorial ones, either, but also in the cases of people making reasonable speculation or saying things we now know to be truthful.

The narrative was: They are 100% effective and absolutely necessary for everyone, that anyone not taking them was causing others to die, everyone must take them and no person is allowed to say otherwise.

If you think my disagreeing with that narrative makes me off the deep end or crazy, let's hear why.

Nope, I'm convinced, we all should mask up, and avoid social gatherings......

Also, we need to go back to zoom learning.

So are you denying that you fudged the numbers by two decimal points?

Private insurance companies may incentivize in the interest of future savings/cost reduction (capitalism).

Honestly, fine with this counter. If you're saying they do this to save money, wanting people to be healthier. I would counter back, while I do recall my insurance making test kits more available, I don't think much else was done on their end.

I think a better argument is the one made earlier, that these greedy companies make whores out of doctors to peddle all manner of things, statins come to mind.

This isn't a CT, though. Nobody really disputes it, although one poster came in to counter this narrative (and said they were in the industry) saying that big Pharm pays off doctors to peddle pretty much everything. I believe it and them, too.

See, this is a discussion. People presenting things, talking about it and taking the issue and delving deeper.

Now, as for me "being wrong" - not quite, although in one thread (to refresh your memory): A young semi-famous person had a stroke. I made the thread. I did not directly blame the vaccine. Then, even before bb.com could register that I made an edit, I had googled the individual, noticed she suffered from lupus since 6 and quickly edited the OP in the thread to reflect that. You can assign motive to me all you want, that maybe I was sitting at my keyboard laughing and gloating at some person suffering, but I can assure you it was more muted than that. Prior to knowing she had lupus, I found it odd. Nothing more, because even if she did not have lupus -- there is still a lot more distance to go before you can jump and directly blame anything over it.

And, more reminder: I am not one of these people who think the vaccines are poison. While I do think they carry some inherent risk, I also believe it's a handful out of thousands or tens of thousands, with varying degrees of harm. Everyone I know vaccinated personally has been fine, aside from one person who has had some issues post-vaccine and issues of a nature where it's hard to say what is the cause.

My constant main complaint: The environment created in the day. The one where truth was suppressed, free speech was taken over by censorship, where big money was used to silence and coerce hundreds of millions.

I don't think it makes me "anti vaccine" or what you called me, "off the deep end" to want actual open scientific discussion protected and for us to remember how for a time it was censored by greed. The vaccines to me are simply the embodiment of this, while I do not think they are particularly great and many do not need them, I'm not calling them clotshots or people who took them mudbloods or anything like that.

I simply think: We were lied to as how effective they were and how thoroughly they were tested. The dangers, as rare as they are, were covered up and dissenting opinions were censored - not just quackery or conspiratorial ones, either, but also in the cases of people making reasonable speculation or saying things we now know to be truthful.

The narrative was: They are 100% effective and absolutely necessary for everyone, that anyone not taking them was causing others to die, everyone must take them and no person is allowed to say otherwise.

If you think my disagreeing with that narrative makes me off the deep end or crazy, let's hear why.

It's lulzy how details don't matter to those who subscribe to the narrative

You could get the safe and effective vax with no doctor's note, from many pharmacies, hospitals, clinics. So how exactly are the providers "getting paid" any more than anyone else who provides the jab?

And when providers do work like examine patients, do surgeries, administer vaccines, they bill and get paid.

Can you share with me what you believe the little video is trying to imply?

And weird, the vaccines were deployed, covid deaths and serious illness plummeted to mainly the unvaxxed. The country opened back up and has remained so, thriving.

So what's the issue with vaccines again? They did exactly what they were intended to do, brought the country through the pandemic and returned us to normalcy.

You could get the safe and effective vax with no doctor's note, from many pharmacies, hospitals, clinics. So how exactly are the providers "getting paid" any more than anyone else who provides the jab?

And when providers do work like examine patients, do surgeries, administer vaccines, they bill and get paid.

Can you share with me what you believe the little video is trying to imply?

And weird, the vaccines were deployed, covid deaths and serious illness plummeted to mainly the unvaxxed. The country opened back up and has remained so, thriving.

So what's the issue with vaccines again? They did exactly what they were intended to do, brought the country through the pandemic and returned us to normalcy.

As a healthcare employee doctors are literally bribed and paid to push all kinds of new pharma medicine like flu and covid vaccines.

Was JLC not able to get in on this grift?

Why would you call the jab (not a vaccine by definition) “safe & effective” when not only did Pfizer themselves tell you it causes myocarditis & pericarditis, but we now know the jab contains SV40?

Explain

Didn't see that post boyo. All I do see is you grasping onto any story with even a potential to somehow reflect negatively on vaccines and the medical profession.

It's a bad look friend. You were shown to be wrong with the first few, yet you keep on posting new CT stuff.

It's partly how the opioid crisis started. Doctors were given monetary incentives to push Oxycontin. I'm not sure where the regulation stands right now, but your neighborhood doctor who was willing to shill could get tens of thousands of dollars extra and extravagant vacations for attending conferences. BRB, 5 days in Hawaii, all expenses paid if attending a few hours of a conference and getting sauced with industry insiders. The list of medications with a similar pattern is numerous.

You don't make sense.

So are you denying that you fudged the numbers by two decimal points?

Which part doesn’t make sense..?

You could get the safe and effective vax with no doctor's note, from many pharmacies, hospitals, clinics. So how exactly are the providers "getting paid" any more than anyone else who provides the jab?

And when providers do work like examine patients, do surgeries, administer vaccines, they bill and get paid.

Can you share with me what you believe the little video is trying to imply?

And weird, the vaccines were deployed, covid deaths and serious illness plummeted to mainly the unvaxxed. The country opened back up and has remained so, thriving.

So what's the issue with vaccines again? They did exactly what they were intended to do, brought the country through the pandemic and returned us to normalcy.

PCPs were given monetary incentives to tell patients to get vaccinated.

The things you type.

The meaning of the term vaccine is unchanged.

Incorrect.


Before:

Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

After

Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Acquired immunity.

I see he’s still avoiding this post

One is definitive, the other is not.

I'm surprised he didn't quote that post and deflect by asking another questions lol. Pathetic.

PCPs were given monetary incentives to tell patients to get vaccinated. Someone being able to get vaccinated on their own or outside of that relationship is irrelevant.

Now, you said the vaccines were both safe and effective. Safety is more subjective, we can all decide what the margins for safety are for something to be considered safe or not. What we do know now, most of the serious known side effects are a handful out of thousands or tens of thousands. Some think that is outside the margin of what is normally considered safe and point out other treatments have been yanked for less. Others see it from the perspective that ~0.035% is a very low number. I don't have a particular dog in this fight, again I am not one of the people saying they are poison. The only thing that bothers me here is the lack of informed consent. Whatever the chance of serious side effects, death or other unwelcome side effects, the discussion of it was censored, we've seen some of the research compromised and such. Whatever it was, people should have known, people should have been able to talk about it.

Effective is also murky. They do seem to have a protective effect, reducing symptoms, reducing the chance of hospitalization and death and reducing the time you're infected (at least for a few months or so). Those are all good things. The vaccines were not initially sold as this, though. So, what are they effective at? Reducing the symptoms? Sure. Doing everything they were touted as doing? Not even close. We were told they kept you from getting the disease, that it would "stop the spread", that it was solely because of unvaccinated people that it was spreading and other lies. That part, I do not like.

You're also making assumptions. That they brought the country through the pandemic and it is because of them that we returned to normalcy. How? Right now, the virus has mutated into a fairly benign and less threatening disease. The vaccine didn't do that. I never personally felt the need to self-quarantine and live in fear, vaccine or not. Once I had covid, saw it was not a threat in the slightest to me, I moved on. I got sick, while sick I self-quarantined, did not infect another person and quickly got over it with no noticeable lasting issue at all. How did the vaccine improve my situation?

Moreover, you are not explaining how my thinking is insane or all the other things you said it was. How? We don't agree on this, but we are not worlds apart. I am not denying some benefit of the vaccines, I am not saying they are death and poison, I just have a slightly different take than you. Is that how you operate? People must agree with you 100% or they are insane? Why do you think like that?

I truly believe ya'll can do better

Nice deflection and non answer.