Thread: Gaming computer recommendation's
01-28-2024, 02:33 PM
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#31
- swolefnatic
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- swolefnatic
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These days it’s much better to go for 1440 27” and high refresh rate 120+ hz
I have a i5 12600k, amd 7800xt, and 32 gb gddr5 ram. This is perfect for smooth 1440p. But you can’t go wrong with a 6800xt or rtx 4070 ti/super
I have a i5 12600k, amd 7800xt, and 32 gb gddr5 ram. This is perfect for smooth 1440p. But you can’t go wrong with a 6800xt or rtx 4070 ti/super
"It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience."
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01-28-2024, 02:39 PM
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#32
- MajorTendonitis
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Originally Posted By swolefnatic⏩
Ya I think I have no choice but to buy new monitors. One good thing though , the selection has never been better.These days it’s much better to go for 1440 27” and high refresh rate 120+ hz
I have a i5 12600k, amd 7800xt, and 32 gb gddr5 ram. This is perfect for smooth 1440p. But you can’t go wrong with a 6800xt or rtx 4070 ti/super
I have a i5 12600k, amd 7800xt, and 32 gb gddr5 ram. This is perfect for smooth 1440p. But you can’t go wrong with a 6800xt or rtx 4070 ti/super
Originally I was going to buy an Apple studio , as it’s calibrated for photography, but I don’t know how good it would be for gaming .
Looked at a few monitors,and it just gets confusing. Amazon reviews don’t help , as some can’t praise one monitor enough , whereas others say the same one has reliability issues and calved in a month .
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01-28-2024, 03:57 PM
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#33
- OptimusTrajan
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Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Keep in mind the 5090 is coming out later this year and will mog the 4090.Well I get it srs , I’ll be bottlenecking the entire system . I’ve been watching reviews last night and the 4090 has some killer specs .
Check out these prices in Canada in one of our bigger cities . I was going to do the 5 hour drive to Memory Express .
Fark , pre Covid , it was rare to see a gpu over $800 . Now they claim they’ve dropped in price considerably, and there 3K before taxes
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Search...s?Search=4090+
Check out these prices in Canada in one of our bigger cities . I was going to do the 5 hour drive to Memory Express .
Fark , pre Covid , it was rare to see a gpu over $800 . Now they claim they’ve dropped in price considerably, and there 3K before taxes
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Search...s?Search=4090+
01-28-2024, 04:42 PM
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#34
Originally Posted By OptimusTrajan⏩
This is why right now probably isn't the best time to be building a high-end gaming PC. You can probably get some decent deals on mid-tier parts right now though.Keep in mind the 5090 is coming out later this year and will mog the 4090.
01-28-2024, 04:44 PM
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#35
- MajorTendonitis
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Originally Posted By JayJ350⏩
That’s what I was thinking,but you can play this game foreverThis is why right now probably isn't the best time to be building a high-end gaming PC. You can probably get some decent deals on mid-tier parts right now though.
Originally Posted By OptimusTrajan⏩
I heard similar things , the 5000 gen is on its way soon.Keep in mind the 5090 is coming out later this year and will mog the 4090.
I can tough it out and wait if I have to , as it’s not that urgent. Would sure like to game again sometime though
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01-28-2024, 04:46 PM
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#36
Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Yeah maybe just focus on maxxing everything else, getting a decent basic graphics card with the intention of upgrading to a nice 5000 series when they release.That’s what I was thinking,but you can play this game forever
01-28-2024, 05:01 PM
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#37
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Originally Posted By swolefnatic⏩
Well this is decently priced . I have no idea how good its specs are compared to the 7000 series . Will have to google reviewsThese days it’s much better to go for 1440 27” and high refresh rate 120+ hz
I have a i5 12600k, amd 7800xt, and 32 gb gddr5 ram. This is perfect for smooth 1440p. But you can’t go wrong with a 6800xt or rtx 4070 ti/super
I have a i5 12600k, amd 7800xt, and 32 gb gddr5 ram. This is perfect for smooth 1440p. But you can’t go wrong with a 6800xt or rtx 4070 ti/super
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08...K6Y9EEQB&psc=1
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01-28-2024, 05:01 PM
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#38
If it wasn't for you mentioning wanting to use the computer for work / photo editing, I'd push this harder... but kinda tempted to recommend sufficing with what you've got for 1 more year, and upgrade next year.
Why? Intel's 15th should be a 3nm node, a true next generation upgrade for performance compared to the 7nm of the 14th gen. NVIDIA will have RTX 50 by around then too.
You can see my rig in my sig. I was tempted to buy a new PC myself, but committing to one more year, and aiming for probably a i7-15700k and RTX 5080.
Why? Intel's 15th should be a 3nm node, a true next generation upgrade for performance compared to the 7nm of the 14th gen. NVIDIA will have RTX 50 by around then too.
You can see my rig in my sig. I was tempted to buy a new PC myself, but committing to one more year, and aiming for probably a i7-15700k and RTX 5080.
01-28-2024, 06:03 PM
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#39
- angelfire2005
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no one knows if Nvidia will launch their next-gen in 2024, and their roadmap actually shows a 2025 launch for their "X100" GPUs, which is probably their 5000 series called Blackwell. Early predictions are a smaller performance gain over Ada, which is their 4000 series.
Given how AMD is stepping back from high-performance cards, it makes sense to launch later. It also means that GPU prices will stay high, especially given how well the 4090 sold. The 5090 will launch first, which means if you want a 5080 or 5070 it could be spring of next year.
Basically with tech, there is always something around the corner. If you need a computer now, then buy one now. Why wait potentially 1-1.5 years for something that could give you only 30% improvement. That is a year of enjoyment you could be having with a new setup. I have a 4090 now that I paid $1600 for. I will almost certainly be able to sell it for $1400 when the 5000 series launches and upgrade for cheap. You could do the same with any GPU and take a small loss.
Given how AMD is stepping back from high-performance cards, it makes sense to launch later. It also means that GPU prices will stay high, especially given how well the 4090 sold. The 5090 will launch first, which means if you want a 5080 or 5070 it could be spring of next year.
Basically with tech, there is always something around the corner. If you need a computer now, then buy one now. Why wait potentially 1-1.5 years for something that could give you only 30% improvement. That is a year of enjoyment you could be having with a new setup. I have a 4090 now that I paid $1600 for. I will almost certainly be able to sell it for $1400 when the 5000 series launches and upgrade for cheap. You could do the same with any GPU and take a small loss.
Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Would highly recommend staying away from AMD. I bought a 7900XTX before a 4090 because I thought bad drivers were a meme. They were not. With nvidia things just work, with AMD every time you upgrade your drivers you basically say a small prayer. The nvidia tax is well worth it, plus you get much better ray tracing and other features like reflex and gsync.Well this is decently priced . I have no idea how good its specs are compared to the 7000 series . Will have to google reviews
hiya
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01-28-2024, 06:21 PM
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#40
- MajorTendonitis
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Originally Posted By angelfire2005⏩
Thanks I was a little weary of AMD , as I had watched people on YouTube being interviewed about intel versus AMD , and all supported intel over AMD .no one knows if Nvidia will launch their next-gen in 2024, and their roadmap actually shows a 2025 launch for their "X100" GPUs, which is probably their 5000 series called Blackwell. Early predictions are a smaller performance gain over Ada, which is their 4000 series.
Given how AMD is stepping back from high-performance cards, it makes sense to launch later. It also means that GPU prices will stay high, especially given how well the 4090 sold. The 5090 will launch first, which means if you want a 5080 or 5070 it could be spring of next year.
Basically with tech, there is always something around the corner. If you need a computer now, then buy one now. Why wait potentially 1-1.5 years for something that could give you only 30% improvement. That is a year of enjoyment you could be having with a new setup. I have a 4090 now that I paid $1600 for. I will almost certainly be able to sell it for $1400 when the 5000 series launches and upgrade for cheap. You could do the same with any GPU and take a small loss.
Would highly recommend staying away from AMD. I bought a 7900XTX before a 4090 because I thought bad drivers were a meme. They were not. With nvidia things just work, with AMD every time you upgrade your drivers you basically say a small prayer. The nvidia tax is well worth it, plus you get much better ray tracing and other features like reflex and gsync.
Given how AMD is stepping back from high-performance cards, it makes sense to launch later. It also means that GPU prices will stay high, especially given how well the 4090 sold. The 5090 will launch first, which means if you want a 5080 or 5070 it could be spring of next year.
Basically with tech, there is always something around the corner. If you need a computer now, then buy one now. Why wait potentially 1-1.5 years for something that could give you only 30% improvement. That is a year of enjoyment you could be having with a new setup. I have a 4090 now that I paid $1600 for. I will almost certainly be able to sell it for $1400 when the 5000 series launches and upgrade for cheap. You could do the same with any GPU and take a small loss.
Would highly recommend staying away from AMD. I bought a 7900XTX before a 4090 because I thought bad drivers were a meme. They were not. With nvidia things just work, with AMD every time you upgrade your drivers you basically say a small prayer. The nvidia tax is well worth it, plus you get much better ray tracing and other features like reflex and gsync.
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01-29-2024, 05:29 PM
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#41
- MajorTendonitis
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Ok it’s officially done . The build should be done in a week , maybe the weekend . I knew like everything I do this would go over budget .
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
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01-29-2024, 06:21 PM
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#42
- PrimarisIn
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Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Thats a helluva of a rig, enjoy brah!Ok it’s officially done . The build should be done in a week , maybe the weekend . I knew like everything I do this would go over budget .
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
01-29-2024, 06:33 PM
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#43
Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
yessssssss hnnnnnghhhhhOk it’s officially done . The build should be done in a week , maybe the weekend . I knew like everything I do this would go over budget .
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
01-29-2024, 06:45 PM
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#44
Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Ok it’s officially done . The build should be done in a week , maybe the weekend . I knew like everything I do this would go over budget .
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
Wow, you really went all out! Congrats, what a beast!
01-29-2024, 06:48 PM
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#45
- MajorTendonitis
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Originally Posted By JayJ350⏩
Ya I knew this was going to happen lol. Always starts out simple enough and then this .Wow, you really went all out! Congrats, what a beast!
The good news is it should be future proof till I get it home
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01-29-2024, 06:53 PM
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#46
Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Reminds me of the last time I bought a gaming PC. Was a gaming laptop about 5 years ago, but I intended to spend just above 2K, ended up spending just above 3K.Ya I knew this was going to happen lol. Always starts out simple enough and then this .
The good news is it should be future proof till I get it home
The good news is it should be future proof till I get it home
Worth it though for future proofing, that PC is still going strong. Yours should be able to handle anything at 4K maxxed out, luckily I just use mine at 1080P.
01-29-2024, 07:03 PM
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#47
- MajorTendonitis
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Originally Posted By JayJ350⏩
I’m looking at a 1440 Oled monitor at the moment , 34” 21:9 aspect ratio.Reminds me of the last time I bought a gaming PC. Was a gaming laptop about 5 years ago, but I intended to spend just above 2K, ended up spending just above 3K.
Worth it though for future proofing, that PC is still going strong. Yours should be able to handle anything at 4K maxxed out, luckily I just use mine at 1080P.
Worth it though for future proofing, that PC is still going strong. Yours should be able to handle anything at 4K maxxed out, luckily I just use mine at 1080P.
Well that’s what my computer guy recommends. He’s a gaming guy to thankfully, so I respect his opinion
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01-29-2024, 07:26 PM
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#48
- angelfire2005
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[QUOTE=MajorTendonitis post_id=1697146723]Ok it’s officially done . The build should be done in a week , maybe the weekend . I knew like everything I do this would go over budget .
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
[URL=https://postimg.cc/rzcxG73Z][img]https://i.postimg.cc/Df46hTgh/IMG-1516.jpg[//img][/URL]
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor[/QUOTE][img]https://steemitimages.com/0x0/http://i.imgur.com/cLP2aAI.gif[/img]
also, 8k pc... windows 11 home lol
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
[URL=https://postimg.cc/rzcxG73Z][img]https://i.postimg.cc/Df46hTgh/IMG-1516.jpg[//img][/URL]
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor[/QUOTE][img]https://steemitimages.com/0x0/http://i.imgur.com/cLP2aAI.gif[/img]
also, 8k pc... windows 11 home lol
hiya
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01-29-2024, 07:44 PM
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#49
- OptimusTrajan
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Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Go 32:9 49". It's basically two 27" 1440p monitors side by side.I’m looking at a 1440 Oled monitor at the moment , 34” 21:9 aspect ratio.
Well that’s what my computer guy recommends. He’s a gaming guy to thankfully, so I respect his opinion
Well that’s what my computer guy recommends. He’s a gaming guy to thankfully, so I respect his opinion
Looks like it'll be a great rig, congrats.
Originally Posted By angelfire2005⏩
also, 8k pc... windows 11 home lol
Windows is so dogchit it doesn't even matter.also, 8k pc... windows 11 home lol
01-29-2024, 07:47 PM
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#50
I got this one $300 off on black Friday
https://www.costco.com/msi-aegis-r-g...000139263.html
Everything great except the video card which is mid but easily upgraded.
Trade in or sell the video card and its pretty solid rig.
https://www.costco.com/msi-aegis-r-g...000139263.html
Everything great except the video card which is mid but easily upgraded.
Trade in or sell the video card and its pretty solid rig.
01-29-2024, 07:49 PM
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#51
Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Ok it’s officially done . The build should be done in a week , maybe the weekend . I knew like everything I do this would go over budget .
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
As per the Misc we’re going with a 4090 GPU . My guy said he doesn’t see where an I9 would benefit anything , but I figured I’m so deep into it now that I may as well spend another $400 and put the I9 in regardless.
Now I’m looking at a 34” inch oled gaming monitor
01-29-2024, 08:14 PM
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#52
- MajorTendonitis
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01-29-2024, 08:58 PM
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#53
- MajorTendonitis
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Originally Posted By baldbrah⏩
Looks pretty solid for the priceI got this one $300 off on black Friday
https://www.costco.com/msi-aegis-r-g...000139263.html
Everything great except the video card which is mid but easily upgraded.
Trade in or sell the video card and its pretty solid rig.
https://www.costco.com/msi-aegis-r-g...000139263.html
Everything great except the video card which is mid but easily upgraded.
Trade in or sell the video card and its pretty solid rig.
Back with my Fam
01-29-2024, 10:05 PM
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#54
Originally Posted By JayJ350⏩
I think we are at the point where consoles and mid-high end PC's are gonna be future proof for decades. You will literally be able to play games at 1080p or 1440p on a 4080 or Series X for many years to come.Reminds me of the last time I bought a gaming PC. Was a gaming laptop about 5 years ago, but I intended to spend just above 2K, ended up spending just above 3K.
Worth it though for future proofing, that PC is still going strong. Yours should be able to handle anything at 4K maxxed out, luckily I just use mine at 1080P.
Worth it though for future proofing, that PC is still going strong. Yours should be able to handle anything at 4K maxxed out, luckily I just use mine at 1080P.
PC specs
i9 9900k/AMD RX 6800 16 GB/16 GB RAM/LG BX 65'' OLED/Gigabyte GS27QC 27''
OLED Master Race crew
1440p 120+ fps only crew
6'2 master race crew
Audiophile crew
Metal crew
Introvert/INTJ crew
German crew
If you aren't getting stronger you aren't getting bigger crew
01-29-2024, 10:12 PM
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#55
- OptimusTrajan
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Originally Posted By eod8989⏩
What happened to your 3080 brah?I think we are at the point where consoles and mid-high end PC's are gonna be future proof for decades. You will literally be able to play games at 1080p or 1440p on a 4080 or Series X for many years to come.
01-29-2024, 10:13 PM
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#56
Originally Posted By OptimusTrajan⏩
I sold it for a more future proof Rx 6800 because it has 6 more vramWhat happened to your 3080 brah?
PC specs
i9 9900k/AMD RX 6800 16 GB/16 GB RAM/LG BX 65'' OLED/Gigabyte GS27QC 27''
OLED Master Race crew
1440p 120+ fps only crew
6'2 master race crew
Audiophile crew
Metal crew
Introvert/INTJ crew
German crew
If you aren't getting stronger you aren't getting bigger crew
01-29-2024, 10:14 PM
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#57
- OptimusTrajan
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Originally Posted By eod8989⏩
Lmao you can't be serious.I sold it for a more future proof Rx 6800 because it has 6 more vram
01-29-2024, 10:20 PM
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#58
Originally Posted By MajorTendonitis⏩
Smart move, I think 1440 is the sweet spot right now for PC gaming. Notable gains over 1080 but not as demanding as 4K, you can really focus on getting a crazy high fps on the regular with a setup like yours. Difference between 1440 and 4K picture isn't really notable with a monitor sized display.I’m looking at a 1440 Oled monitor at the moment , 34” 21:9 aspect ratio.
Well that’s what my computer guy recommends. He’s a gaming guy to thankfully, so I respect his opinion
Well that’s what my computer guy recommends. He’s a gaming guy to thankfully, so I respect his opinion
Originally Posted By eod8989⏩
Yeah that's easily the best thing about technology right now, it's been aging very well compared to the past. Heck if you're just playing older PC games and most indies, you can get by with some cheap ass basic laptop or mini-PC these days, playing stuff that in the past could have put a dedicated gaming rig to it's limits. Like I got this one $200 mini-PC recently got that I use a lot, and it can handle games no problem that pushed my old Windows XP gaming PC to it's breaking point back in the day. My 5 year old gaming laptop can still seem to handle just about any PC game at high settings on my 1080p 144hz laptop monitor, heck older games it will just beast mode and play at a full 144hz. I remember how the last gaming laptop I bought before that aged like chit, just a few years after I got it already struggling to keep up. My Series X and PS5 should be a perfect companion for my 4K OLED TV for a long time to come, such a world a difference from what 4K was like a decade ago. My One X was the first console that felt like it was properly meant for 4K and it's still my dedicated console for playing OG Xbox - One games.I think we are at the point where consoles and mid-high end PC's are gonna be future proof for decades. You will literally be able to play games at 1080p or 1440p on a 4080 or Series X for many years to come.
01-29-2024, 10:56 PM
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#59
Originally Posted By JayJ350⏩
Yeah just 5 years most hardware struggled to even reach 1080p 30-60 fps. Now these consoles and GPU's do 1080p 200+ fps. I used to buy a new system or GPU every 2-3 years. I don't think i will have to do that for a very long time now. I don't even see 4k being the norm either for another 5 years. Most people still play 1080p or 1440p but even with a $120 2060 they can get buttery smooth 120 fps.Smart move, I think 1440 is the sweet spot right now for PC gaming. Notable gains over 1080 but not as demanding as 4K, you can really focus on getting a crazy high fps on the regular with a setup like yours. Difference between 1440 and 4K picture isn't really notable with a monitor sized display.
Yeah that's easily the best thing about technology right now, it's been aging very well compared to the past. Heck if you're just playing older PC games and most indies, you can get by with some cheap ass basic laptop or mini-PC these days, playing stuff that in the past could have put a dedicated gaming rig to it's limits. Like I got this one $200 mini-PC recently got that I use a lot, and it can handle games no problem that pushed my old Windows XP gaming PC to it's breaking point back in the day. My 5 year old gaming laptop can still seem to handle just about any PC game at high settings on my 1080p 144hz laptop monitor, heck older games it will just beast mode and play at a full 144hz. I remember how the last gaming laptop I bought before that aged like chit, just a few years after I got it already struggling to keep up. My Series X and PS5 should be a perfect companion for my 4K OLED TV for a long time to come, such a world a difference from what 4K was like a decade ago. My One X was the first console that felt like it was properly meant for 4K and it's still my dedicated console for playing OG Xbox - One games.
Yeah that's easily the best thing about technology right now, it's been aging very well compared to the past. Heck if you're just playing older PC games and most indies, you can get by with some cheap ass basic laptop or mini-PC these days, playing stuff that in the past could have put a dedicated gaming rig to it's limits. Like I got this one $200 mini-PC recently got that I use a lot, and it can handle games no problem that pushed my old Windows XP gaming PC to it's breaking point back in the day. My 5 year old gaming laptop can still seem to handle just about any PC game at high settings on my 1080p 144hz laptop monitor, heck older games it will just beast mode and play at a full 144hz. I remember how the last gaming laptop I bought before that aged like chit, just a few years after I got it already struggling to keep up. My Series X and PS5 should be a perfect companion for my 4K OLED TV for a long time to come, such a world a difference from what 4K was like a decade ago. My One X was the first console that felt like it was properly meant for 4K and it's still my dedicated console for playing OG Xbox - One games.
I went back and played my OG Xbox One and it can't even run 1080p 60 fps on most games and it was blurry like holy fuk what a piece of chit it was lol. It's literally irrelevant tech eve the Xbox One X from 6 years ago is miles ahead of it.
PC specs
i9 9900k/AMD RX 6800 16 GB/16 GB RAM/LG BX 65'' OLED/Gigabyte GS27QC 27''
OLED Master Race crew
1440p 120+ fps only crew
6'2 master race crew
Audiophile crew
Metal crew
Introvert/INTJ crew
German crew
If you aren't getting stronger you aren't getting bigger crew
01-30-2024, 12:31 AM
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#60
- MajorTendonitis
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Originally Posted By swolefnatic⏩
What is the aspect ratio of your 27” , 16:9 .These days it’s much better to go for 1440 27” and high refresh rate 120+ hz
I have a i5 12600k, amd 7800xt, and 32 gb gddr5 ram. This is perfect for smooth 1440p. But you can’t go wrong with a 6800xt or rtx 4070 ti/super
I have a i5 12600k, amd 7800xt, and 32 gb gddr5 ram. This is perfect for smooth 1440p. But you can’t go wrong with a 6800xt or rtx 4070 ti/super
I almost think 34” is too big , but my computer guy insists on going 21:9 and 34” .
A 27” at a 21:9 aspect ratio may end up not being a very tall monitor, not sure .
Back with my Fam
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