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» What is the universe expanding into?
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post 1704958521 08-13-2024, 08:43 AM
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What is the universe expanding into?

We are told the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. So what is it expanding into? If there's nothing...does that mean something is being created from nothing and the universe just has some sort of desire to bring somethingness into nothingness?
post 1704958581 08-13-2024, 08:44 AM
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u think were physicists m8?
Canada Crew
post 1704958681 08-13-2024, 08:46 AM
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The universe is surrounded on all sides by an enormous Chuck E Cheese ball pit.

Man's goal is to one day dive from the edge of his universe into the ball pit, to play around for half an hour before returning back to his universe for pizza.
post 1704958761 08-13-2024, 08:47 AM
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Empty space with no matter. Nothing is being created, it is just blank space with literally nothing in it that the matter of the universe is expanding into.
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post 1704958851 08-13-2024, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted By BuckNakedinBama
Empty space with no matter. Nothing is being created, it is just blank space with literally nothing in it that the matter of the universe is expanding into.
so there's infinite empty space that our universe is expanding into?
post 1704958881 08-13-2024, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted By BuckNakedinBama
Empty space with no matter. Nothing is being created, it is just blank space with literally nothing in it that the matter of the universe is expanding into.
^ This is speculation/assumption. There is no actual evidence to support this over any other theory.
post 1704959331 08-13-2024, 09:04 AM
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Your mind
See you tomorrow
post 1704959351 08-13-2024, 09:04 AM
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your mom







(can’t believe I’m the first one to post this, cmon misc you’re slipping)
post 1704959421 08-13-2024, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted By eddiehaskell
so there's infinite empty space that our universe is expanding into?
yes
post 1704959671 08-13-2024, 09:12 AM
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It doesn't need to expand into anything, because time, and space are features of the universe, not features outside the universe... and most likely they are emergent from the quantum wavefunction or similar, and not fundamental; this is indicated by the fact that the Bell inequalities show that locality is not a fundamental feature of quantum mechanics. Furthermore, technically 'something' isnt created as such because while things get further apart, entropy increases and so energy dissipates... so you get the same amount of energy even as the universe expands.. or at least the same ammount of free energy.

Dark energy puts a slight spanner in this though, because dark energy (i.e vacuum energy) doesn't dissipate as the universe expands (i.e 1m^3 of vacuum always has the same amount of energy). However, there are ideas that gravity works as a kind of negative energy, which perfectly balances the total energy of the universe; therefore the net balance of the universe may be 0.

Further more 'space' is really a reference system. What 'expansion' really means is, if you have two points in space, over time they will become further apart. It's a different paradigm to 'expanding into something'
post 1704959851 08-13-2024, 09:15 AM
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I always recommend this as a primer.
post 1704960511 08-13-2024, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted By TappingTheZen
It doesn't need to expand into anything, because time, and space are features of the universe, not features outside the universe... and most likely they are emergent from the quantum wavefunction or similar, and not fundamental; this is indicated by the fact that the Bell inequalities show that locality is not a fundamental feature of quantum mechanics. Furthermore, technically 'something' isnt created as such because while things get further apart, entropy increases and so energy dissipates... so you get the same amount of energy even as the universe expands.. or at least the same ammount of free energy.

Dark energy puts a slight spanner in this though, because dark energy (i.e vacuum energy) doesn't dissipate as the universe expands (i.e 1m^2 of vacuum always has the same amount of energy). However, there are ideas that gravity works as a kind of negative energy, which perfectly balances the total energy of the universe; therefore the net balance of the universe may be 0.

Further more 'space' is really a reference system. What 'expansion' really means is, if you have two points in space, over time they will become further apart. It's a different paradigm to 'expanding into something'
this honestly make little sense to me lol. the universe was nothing...a singularity...it came to be and expanded (still expanding) into ?? infinity? so time and space are being infinitely created as far as we see if we could see? it's as though it all exists in our mind
post 1704960871 08-13-2024, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted By eddiehaskell
this honestly make little sense to me lol. the universe was nothing...a singularity...it came to be and expanded (still expanding) into ?? infinity? so time and space are being infinitely created as far as we see if we could see? it's as though it all exists in our mind
It wasn't a 'singularity'. A 'singularity' is a mathematical quirk and it's obtained by basically taking einsteins theory of General relativity, and running it backwards until you get infinities that break the equations and we call that a singularity, and that happens about 13.8 billion years ago.

That doesn't actually tell us that the universe was a single point, although the wider public seem to believe it does. What we actually think we know is that early on, the universe went through some form of rapid expansion called inflation, and prior to that it was very dense and hot. What we also know is, to describe those 'early moments', we need a theory of quantum gravity, because General Relativity breaks down here and quantum effects become important, and we have no such theory, and thus we don't really know much about the birth of the universe. The cosmic microwave background radiation gives some ideas, but ultimately that 'begins' when atoms are thought to have first fused together and light was finally not confined; about 300,000 years after the 'singularity' posited by General relativity, so we're still in the dark largely prior to that. The hope is that things like gravitational waves which we can now detect may give us some idea of the earlier moments, if we can detect 'primordial gravitational waves' (a Big IF)

As for your last point; well this is something that's kind of hard to be sure of, and philosophy has tried. This was kants projct for example with his transcendental 'idealism'; and in the briefest sense he basically outlines a worldview where the external world we experience really does 'exist', but the way we experience it (i.e space, time etc) is not how it really is, but rather tells us something about how our mind 'organises' the data it receives from the universe. Proving the external world exists outside of our mind is actually something philosophy has never been able to prove deductively, and it's one of those leaps of faith you have to make and assume that a real world does exist, to get anything done. The only other answer is solipsism which while it can't be objectively disproved, is not a useful way to function.
post 1704961061 08-13-2024, 09:41 AM
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#14
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its expanding into whatever God has made for it to expand into . i think its bottomless darkness
post 1704961311 08-13-2024, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted By TappingTheZen
It wasn't a 'singularity'. A 'singularity' is a mathematical quirk and it's obtained by basically taking einsteins theory of General relativity, and running it backwards until you get infinities that break the equations and we call that a singularity, and that happens about 13.8 billion years ago.

That doesn't actually tell us that the universe was a single point, although the wider public seem to believe it does. What we actually think we know is that early on, the universe went through some form of rapid expansion called inflation, and prior to that it was very dense and hot. What we also know is, to describe those 'early moments', we need a theory of quantum gravity, because General Relativity breaks down here and quantum effects become important, and we have no such theory, and thus we don't really know much about the birth of the universe. The cosmic microwave background radiation gives some ideas, but ultimately that 'begins' when atoms are thought to have first fused together and light was finally not confined; about 300,000 years after the 'singularity' posited by General relativity, so we're still in the dark largely prior to that. The hope is that things like gravitational waves which we can now detect may give us some idea of the earlier moments, if we can detect 'primordial gravitational waves' (a Big IF)

As for your last point; well this is something that's kind of hard to be sure of, and philosophy has tried. This was kants projct for example with his transcendental 'idealism'; and in the briefest sense he basically outlines a worldview where the external world we experience really does 'exist', but the way we experience it (i.e space, time etc) is not how it really is, but rather tells us something about how our mind 'organises' the data it receives from the universe. Proving the external world exists outside of our mind is actually something philosophy has never been able to prove deductively, and it's one of those leaps of faith you have to make and assume that a real world does exist, to get anything done. The only other answer is solipsism which while it can't be objectively disproved, is not a useful way to function.
sounds like we don't know anything aside from word salad.

very dense and hot...expansion...expansion infinitely to the point of anything we can conceive of existing. how much energy does it take for the universe to expand into infinite creation?
post 1704961431 08-13-2024, 09:49 AM
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Lol at spacecels

Space doesn’t exist, it’s “there” as a means to control us

Coincel
Florida crew (lol at coldcels)
post 1704961481 08-13-2024, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted By drakkarman
its expanding into whatever God has made for it to expand into . i think its bottomless darkness
God is infinite so therefore his creation is as infinite as the universe?
post 1704961551 08-13-2024, 09:52 AM
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Thought the evidence pointed to the opposite that the universe is degrading.
As
post 1704961691 08-13-2024, 09:55 AM
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Truth is, nobody knows. The deeper you go down the rabbit hole, you are just going to have more questions rather than answers.


The concept of time and space only work from the universe's perspective, but when you try to use those concepts to explain things beyond the universe, such as what was there before the universe, or beyond the universe, simply make no sense. We are just wired to understand a tiny fraction of our own universe, nothing more. You cant teach a calculator to paint you the Monalisa, you cant teach a human to understand the universe. We arent programmed for that, we are basically characters inside a videogame trying to understand whats beyond.

Best you gonna get are more complex and nerdy ways of saying "we dont know ****"
"The flowers bloom, then wither... The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
post 1704961731 08-13-2024, 09:55 AM
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Things are just being observed as getting further apart, even things moving in the same direction. Space itself (as in the space inside a room, not Outer Space) is just expanding when we'd expect it would contract if anything due to gravity.
post 1704961881 08-13-2024, 09:59 AM
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when i google where is the end of the universe i get "Scientists now consider it unlikely the universe has an end – a region where the galaxies stop or where there would be a barrier of some kind"
post 1704962141 08-13-2024, 10:05 AM
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He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
post 1704962701 08-13-2024, 10:19 AM
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I read that the universe has no defined center or edge, which means that any observer, no matter where they are located, would perceive themselves as being at the centre of the universe.
post 1704962981 08-13-2024, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted By eddiehaskell
when i google where is the end of the universe i get "Scientists now consider it unlikely the universe has an end – a region where the galaxies stop or where there would be a barrier of some kind"
The Bible calls it the Firmament.
As
post 1704963581 08-13-2024, 10:43 AM
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What it expanded into in the beginning?

I feel like the human brain loses some of the earlier information to make way for new

Do we have any proof of space expansion or is it just riddles made up from space science to create an industry
post 1704964231 08-13-2024, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted By proudmanlet
your mom







(can’t believe I’m the first one to post this, cmon misc you’re slipping)
there's probably room after you got done with her
post 1704964261 08-13-2024, 11:02 AM
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I'm currently reading this book. It's a good read, giving another theory on the creation of our universe.


THE BIG BANG NEVER HAPPENED

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Far ranging and provocative, THE BIG BANG NEVER HAPPENED is more than a critique of one of the primary theories of astronomy -- that the universe appeared out of nothingness in a single cataclysmic explosion ten to twenty billion years ago. Drawing on discoveries in particle physics and thermodynamics as well as on readings in history and philosophy, Eric J. Lerner confronts the values behind the Big Bang theory: the belief that mathematical formulae are superior to empirical observation; that the universe is finite and decaying; and that it could only come into being through some outside force. With inspiring boldness and scientific rigor, he offers a brilliantly orchestrated argument that generated explosive intellectual debate.
post 1704964751 08-13-2024, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted By eddiehaskell
sounds like we don't know anything aside from word salad.

very dense and hot...expansion...expansion infinitely to the point of anything we can conceive of existing. how much energy does it take for the universe to expand into infinite creation?
I mean i think i was fairly honest about what we claim not to know; i.e the origins of the universe. I tried to explain what physics has to say about what it thinks we do know, but you didn't seem to like those explanations or maybe found them confusing, that's fine and is what it is.

However, i'm not gonna argue, we're all entitled to our own views and there is definately a LOT that's up for speculation science wise, and any claim we have 'the answer' is going to be false.
post 1704964991 08-13-2024, 11:17 AM
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It's expanding into smack city of piss
post 1704965071 08-13-2024, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted By ParsleyTea
I'm currently reading this book. It's a good read, giving another theory on the creation of our universe.


THE BIG BANG NEVER HAPPENED

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Far ranging and provocative, THE BIG BANG NEVER HAPPENED is more than a critique of one of the primary theories of astronomy -- that the universe appeared out of nothingness in a single cataclysmic explosion ten to twenty billion years ago. Drawing on discoveries in particle physics and thermodynamics as well as on readings in history and philosophy, Eric J. Lerner confronts the values behind the Big Bang theory: the belief that mathematical formulae are superior to empirical observation; that the universe is finite and decaying; and that it could only come into being through some outside force. With inspiring boldness and scientific rigor, he offers a brilliantly orchestrated argument that generated explosive intellectual debate.
so what's his theory for universe existing and being infinite?
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