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Forum ยป A Date Which Will Live in Infamy
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Thread: A Date Which Will Live in Infamy

post 1474117961 12-07-2016, 08:08 AM
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A Date Which Will Live in Infamy

75th Annaversy of a day "Which Will Live in Infamy. Sadly, Most here couldn't even tell you what happened that day, and the revisionist history has the Japanese as the victims of evil nukes, etc. I thought this documentary - Pearl Harbor: 75 Years Later - was well done if anyone didn't see it. Worth a watch:

http://www.history.com/specials/pear...r/full-special

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post 1474118111 12-07-2016, 08:10 AM
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And Americans still buy Japanese cars.....smh
post 1474118191 12-07-2016, 08:10 AM
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History site is blocked at my work for some reason. Is that on the history channel tonight? What time?

I minored in history and was wondering on Sunday how many people would remember. Was waiting to see how long into the afternoon it took for people on my ******** to share a generic post about it as a reminder to them that this is the date it occurred.
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post 1474118391 12-07-2016, 08:12 AM
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I personally think that's one of Ben afflecks worst movies. 2/10.
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post 1474119571 12-07-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted By Iceman1800⏩
And Americans still buy Japanese cars.....smh
I love Japanese cars man.
Originally Posted By SSM12⏩
History site is blocked at my work for some reason. Is that on the history channel tonight? What time?

I minored in history and was wondering on Sunday how many people would remember. Was waiting to see how long into the afternoon it took for people on my ******** to share a generic post about it as a reminder to them that this is the date it occurred.
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Originally Posted By TheFaithfull⏩
I personally think that's one of Ben afflecks worst movies. 2/10.
He's never made anything better than 5-6/10 if he's the lead. Meh.
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post 1474119711 12-07-2016, 08:27 AM
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War is war...but you do realize the Japanese attacked a military base right? That's exactly what they are supposed to do....

Killing civilians is a war foul, but attacking a base is normal.....

Whereas the US nuked the **** out of countless innocent Japanese citizens.

In war, only military personnel should see violence, not the citizens.
post 1474119991 12-07-2016, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted By Drazzztic⏩
War is war...but you do realize the Japanese attacked a military base right? That's exactly what they are supposed to do....

Killing civilians is a war foul, but attacking a base is normal.....

Whereas the US nuked the **** out of countless innocent Japanese citizens.

In war, only military personnel should see violence, not the citizens.
Yeah but every country on both sides of the world were killing civilians. It was just usually via many small bombs not one big one. The Japanese targeted a military base then, but they weren't known for treating civilians kinder than anyone else, to my knowledge.
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post 1474120291 12-07-2016, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted By Drazzztic⏩
War is war...but you do realize the Japanese attacked a military base right? That's exactly what they are supposed to do....

Killing civilians is a war foul, but attacking a base is normal.....

Whereas the US nuked the **** out of countless innocent Japanese citizens.

In war, only military personnel should see violence, not the citizens.
Hence my comments on revisionist history that the soft minded and ignorant like you swallow.
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post 1474120321 12-07-2016, 08:32 AM
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My grandmother was there. She remembers them flying so low over her that you could see their faces.
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post 1474120481 12-07-2016, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted By Thekittenking⏩
Yeah but every country on both sides of the world were killing civilians. It was just usually via many small bombs not one big one. The Japanese targeted a military base then, but they weren't known for treating civilians kinder than anyone else, to my knowledge.
Yeah, but OP was making it seem like the Japanese were out of line to attack a military base but that the nukes were justified.

Civilians in occupied territories are always treated harshly and civilian casualties are common in war.

I was just trying to point out the fact of the matter.
post 1474120791 12-07-2016, 08:37 AM
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And Japan is now our closest military ally. Times change
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post 1474120851 12-07-2016, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
Hence my comments on revisionist history that the soft minded and ignorant like you swallow.
I'm not referring to this situation specifically but the topic in its entirety...

Those who represent the government are the ones who are supposed to be attacked in a war.... Not civilians who merely live somewhere.

I'd consider myself a nationalist, but what you are advocating is civilian genocide. You are a very backward individual if you cannot see the flaw in your thinking on this matter.
post 1474121111 12-07-2016, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted By Iceman1800⏩
And Americans still buy Japanese cars.....smh
A lot of Japanese cars are made in the USA, moreso than some American cars
post 1474121121 12-07-2016, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted By Thekittenking⏩
Yeah but every country on both sides of the world were killing civilians. It was just usually via many small bombs not one big one. The Japanese targeted a military base then, but they weren't known for treating civilians kinder than anyone else, to my knowledge.
The Japanese were killing, torturing, raping, etc civilians in mass well before the US got into the war directly (1), and treated their POWs worse than anyone in the war. In the Euro theater, Hitler started that one with directly targeting civilians by bombing London and the Allies repaid that one in full after that. Again, most either don't know their history and or learned some revisionist version of it.

(1)http://www.history.com/topics/nanjing-massacre
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post 1474122201 12-07-2016, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted By Drazzztic⏩
War is war...but you do realize the Japanese attacked a military base right? That's exactly what they are supposed to do....

Killing civilians is a war foul, but attacking a base is normal.....

Whereas the US nuked the **** out of countless innocent Japanese citizens.

In war, only military personnel should see violence, not the citizens.
who was massacre of nanking? what about the indonesians, filipinos, and other folks killed by the japanese across the pacific? who was human experiments?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japane..._crimes#Crimes
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post 1474122231 12-07-2016, 08:50 AM
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I think it's a stretch to think most don't know what Dec 7 represents.

And before anyone criticizes the methods used to bring the war to an end - do a bit of research.

I have little tolerance for those who want to reinvent history. The Japanese got what they deserved! Millions would have died if they came from the sea and tried invading Japan. Everyone was a soldier in Japan at that point. School children were being trained to fight to kill. It would have been a blood bath. The Japanese viewed non Japanese as sub human and they saw their emperor as God like. They would all have died for him and we would have lost millions. They started the War - better that they pay the price then us.

The Japanese were more brutal than the Germans and that's a difficult statement to make but it's true.

And while I'm at it - thank you Russia. In spite of our propaganda machine we would never have won WW2 without the sacrifices made by the Russians who lost millions in the war against Hitler. The Germans were pounded into submission and were a mere shadow of themselves by the time allied forces finally came ashore in Normandy - and they still put up a helluva fight.

Those young men who gave their lives in defending our freedom is the reason I will vote every election until I die. I would stand in line in freezing rain for 12 hours if that's what it takes. I don't care if an American (or canadian) votes R or D -just go vote because those boys never came back and paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. Because of them - we live in a country where we are free to chose our leaders.
post 1474122361 12-07-2016, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
The Japanese were killing, torturing, raping, etc civilians in mass well before the US got into the war directly (1), and treated their POWs worse than anyone in the war. In the Euro theater, Hitler started that one with directly targeting civilians by bombing London and the Allies repaid that one in full after that. Again, most either don't know their history and or learned some revisionist version of it.

(1)http://www.history.com/topics/nanjing-massacre
Well stated sir!
post 1474122631 12-07-2016, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted By Drazzztic⏩
I'm not referring to this situation specifically but the topic in its entirety...

Those who represent the government are the ones who are supposed to be attacked in a war.... Not civilians who merely live somewhere.

I'd consider myself a nationalist, but what you are advocating is civilian genocide. You are a very backward individual if you cannot see the flaw in your thinking on this matter.
Wow - you really need to read a book or 10. I don't mean to be insulting but you really know little of the history of WW2.
post 1474122681 12-07-2016, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted By MrAWatts⏩
And Japan is now our closest military ally. Times change
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post 1474123301 12-07-2016, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
The Japanese were killing, torturing, raping, etc civilians in mass well before the US got into the war directly (1), and treated their POWs worse than anyone in the war. In the Euro theater, Hitler started that one with directly targeting civilians by bombing London and the Allies repaid that one in full after that. Again, most either don't know their history and or learned some revisionist version of it.

(1)http://www.history.com/topics/nanjing-massacre
For some one so self assuredly well versed in history I'd think you would have heard that the August 24, 1940 bombing of London was likely a mistake. Certainly not part of the master plan (Operation Sealion). Certainly not an order from Adolf. 9 civilians killed in that "attack" on Central London. Think about it, do you think the Luftwaffe would really kick-off attacks on civilian targets with this bombing? Nah m8. Just like they had before (brb Poland, brb low countries, brb France, brb brb) they would have done something big > like Japanese @ Pearl Harbor.

So I guess you also learned the revisionist history which justifies Allied war crimes.

p.s. Pearl Harbor was an inside job.
post 1474123791 12-07-2016, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted By DarrylCalgary⏩
Wow - you really need to read a book or 10. I don't mean to be insulting but you really know little of the history of WW2.
I'm aware of the atrocities of WW2, on both sides. But you guys don't seem to understand the concept I've been trying to discuss.

The attack on Pearl Harbor was a tragedy for the US and thats what this thread was about.

But you guys are being painfully hypocritical and ignorant and aren't understanding that an attack on government personnel is an act of war. Whereas an attack on citizens is a genocide.


Queue another straw man post about another Japanese war crime which has nothing to do with what I'm discussing....
post 1474125291 12-07-2016, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted By DarrylCalgary⏩
I think it's a stretch to think most don't know what Dec 7 represents.

And before anyone criticizes the methods used to bring the war to an end - do a bit of research.

I have little tolerance for those who want to reinvent history. The Japanese got what they deserved! Millions would have died if they came from the sea and tried invading Japan. Everyone was a soldier in Japan at that point. School children were being trained to fight to kill. It would have been a blood bath. The Japanese viewed non Japanese as sub human and they saw their emperor as God like. They would all have died for him and we would have lost millions. They started the War - better that they pay the price then us.

The Japanese were more brutal than the Germans and that's a difficult statement to make but it's true.

And while I'm at it - thank you Russia.In spite of our propaganda machine we would never have won WW2 without the sacrifices made by the Russians who lost millions in the war against Hitler. The Germans were pounded into submission and were a mere shadow of themselves by the time allied forces finally came ashore in Normandy - and they still put up a helluva fight.

Those young men who gave their lives in defending our freedom is the reason I will vote every election until I die. I would stand in line in freezing rain for 12 hours if that's what it takes. I don't care if an American (or canadian) votes R or D -just go vote because those boys never came back and paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. Because of them - we live in a country where we are free to chose our leaders.
And they would never have won, or at least lost millions more had we not save their a$$ via the Lend-Lease Act (1). That was banned from any mention in Russia for decades and a small display exists now finally. Don't thank Russia, thank Hitler for being dumb enough to open two fronts. Russia had no say in that one and they died badly until the Winter gave them some breathing room and our huge influx of supplies made them able to mount a counter:

(1)http://www.historynet.com/did-russia...he-germans.htm
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post 1474126101 12-07-2016, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted By JeenyusJr⏩
For some one so self assuredly well versed in history I'd think you would have heard that the August 24, 1940 bombing of London was likely a mistake. Certainly not part of the master plan (Operation Sealion). Certainly not an order from Adolf. 9 civilians killed in that "attack" on Central London. Think about it, do you think the Luftwaffe would really kick-off attacks on civilian targets with this bombing? Nah m8. Just like they had before (brb Poland, brb low countries, brb France, brb brb) they would have done something big > like Japanese @ Pearl Harbor.

So I guess you also learned the revisionist history which justifies Allied war crimes.

p.s. Pearl Harbor was an inside job.
Urin an idiot with tin foil hat on too tight. I was hoping the tin foil would make it a few pages, but not to be:

" the Nazis bombed Warsaw, Wieluri, Frampol, and Kamieniec in Poland killing thousands of Polish civilians in September 1939, they bombed 14 cities in France, including Lyons, between May 9 and 10, 1940 and their bombing of Rotterdam on May 14, 1940 resulted in the deaths of 30,000 Dutch civilians --- we have not even bothered to mention their attack on Belgrade ---all in direct violation of the Hague Convention concerning the targeting of civilians"

But the bombing of London was a "mistake" and PH an inside job. Cue Holocaust deniers in 3..2..1
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post 1474126121 12-07-2016, 09:25 AM
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I'm hoping I live to see the 100th anniversary of the end of WW2 but also I am hoping there wont be a WW3.
post 1474126251 12-07-2016, 09:26 AM
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Fuark brahs imagine just 1 plane/sub or whatever managed to spot the Japanese Navy approaching. The murkans would have ended them then and there.
post 1474127171 12-07-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted By MrAWatts⏩
And Japan is now our closest military ally. Times change
That's because we made it so post WWII, just as Germany is. Best way to bring your country to be the power house of a region, is to fight a war with the US and lose
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post 1474128041 12-07-2016, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted By AboveAverage⏩
Fuark brahs imagine just 1 plane/sub or whatever managed to spot the Japanese Navy approaching. The murkans would have ended them then and there.
Not sure if that's true, but we would have put up a real fight at least. They were very sneaky about it, and took a long northerly route to avoid any detection, various signs an attack was possibly underway or imminent ignored, and they were lead by a very smart man in Admiral Yamamoto, who BTW, thought attacking the USA was a very bad idea knowing it would be the demise of Japan. He felt the attack would give the Japanese 6 months at most before all hell broke lose. The Japanes should have listen to Yamamoto, who attended Harvard and knew the US was a "sleeping giant"
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post 1474128191 12-07-2016, 09:40 AM
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What's sad is people are so un aware of how war truly is. The ones that sit on the sidelines are the first to point their finger saying we did it wrong. When we used our big stick it truly showed America's power and it proved that we do not back down from chit. The nuke was a major play and has kept us as the Alphas on earth for the last 75 years. Let us not forget that all of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for us Americans as well.....
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post 1474129701 12-07-2016, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted By meenman83⏩
What's sad is people are so un aware of how war truly is. The ones that sit on the sidelines are the first to point their finger saying we did it wrong. When we used our big stick it truly showed America's power and it proved that we do not back down from chit. The nuke was a major play and has kept us as the Alphas on earth for the last 75 years. Let us not forget that all of Europe would be speaking German if it wasn't for us Americans as well.....
If people had a clue, there would be less of them, and you know what they say about those who ignore history. Per usual, the US is damned if we do, damned if we don't. A major criticism has been the US didn't get into the war sooner thus preventing the Nazi's from being able to get as far as they did. etc, etc.

The US was an isolationist oriented nation pre WWII and the public wanted no part of the war, even though anyone with half a brain new it was not if but when we'd have to get involved.
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post 1474130011 12-07-2016, 09:56 AM
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Yea lets just park our entire aging fleet except our aircraft carrier at an island when Japanese tensions were sky high... nothing was planned at all.
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