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Forum » Is good form the biggest cope there is?
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Thread: Is good form the biggest cope there is?

post 1615952611 09-08-2020, 05:28 PM
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Is good form the biggest cope there is?

Some of the biggest/strongest people I've ever seen IRL or online always cheat their form just a little. Swinging a little when doing curls, touch-n-go deadlifts, bounced bench press, a little back movement when doing rows, etc

I thought about it, and they're still using the target muscles at 100% since they're still the limiting factor but now they're bringing more muscles into the lift. The bicep curl now turns into a compound lift because of the cheating

Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1615953111 09-08-2020, 05:35 PM
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good luck with your injury goals in 2020
post 1615953241 09-08-2020, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
Some of the biggest/strongest people I've ever seen IRL or online always cheat their form just a little.
No one actually thinks there's anything wrong with that.
post 1615953281 09-08-2020, 05:37 PM
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Staying natty is the biggest cope
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post 1615953311 09-08-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By kinzu1996⏩
good luck with your injury goals in 2020
That's the thing. How many times have you seen someone deadlift with a back curved like a cat taking a chit? I've seen plenty, some getting to 500/600 lb deadlifts. I've legit never seen anyone hurt their back this way (srs). I've seen more people tear their bicep from deadlifting than getting a real back injury deadlifting (as in not just a pulled muscle). But the Chad Cheater would deadlift with double overhand with straps, so no bicep injury. The ultimate form of irony that the guy sticking to strict form is more likely to get hurt
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1615953501 09-08-2020, 05:41 PM
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Imo it depends on the movement. If you stop doing bicep curls as soon as your elbow joint starts moving even slightly your defo losing out on gains, let’s say you can do 8 reps perfect form before you can’t maintain it- the correct way to do it is to do 8 reps perfect form then another 3-4 cheat reps. Or for example on pullups, if I can do 15 pullups really strict then another 2-3 cheat reps then defo do those cheat reps rather than just stopping when you can’t do full RoM anymore. But on something like a barbell bench press where the risk of serious injury is quite high I wouldn’t do any cheat reps
post 1615953611 09-08-2020, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted By wd0694820⏩
Imo it depends on the movement. If you stop doing bicep curls as soon as your elbow joint starts moving even slightly your defo losing out on gains, let’s say you can do 8 reps perfect form before you can’t maintain it- the correct way to do it is to do 8 reps perfect form then another 3-4 cheat reps. Or for example on pullups, if I can do 15 pullups really strict then another 2-3 cheat reps then defo do those cheat reps rather than just stopping when you can’t do full RoM anymore. But on something like a barbell bench press where the risk of serious injury is quite high I wouldn’t do any cheat reps
What about instead of 8 good reps then 4 cheat reps, you instead do 20 cheat reps? Or do 12 cheat reps with more weight?

By curl cheat reps, I don't mean partial ROM. I mean swinging a little bit but with full rom
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1615953771 09-08-2020, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
What about instead of 8 good reps then 4 cheat reps, you instead do 20 cheat reps? Or do 12 cheat reps with more weight?
I mean both would have the same result of taking your biceps to the maximum point of failure so I don’t think it would make a big difference, but defo stopping when you can’t do perfect form anymore, which for something like a curl is probably 4 reps short of actual failure is seriously short changing yourself in terms of gains
post 1615953911 09-08-2020, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted By CopeFear⏩
Staying natty is the biggest cope
this
Future P.A in progress
We're all gonna make it

sleep tight pupper
post 1615953961 09-08-2020, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted By wd0694820⏩
I mean both would have the same result of taking your biceps to the maximum point of failure so I don’t think it would make a big difference, but defo stopping when you can’t do perfect form anymore, which for something like a curl is probably 4 reps short of actual failure is seriously short changing yourself in terms of gains
Right, both would have the same stress on the biceps. But the guy swinging a little bit is now also working his front delts and core muscles a little more. Doesn't sound like a big effect but imagine this effect from every exercise
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1615954091 09-08-2020, 05:47 PM
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Its funny how Ronnie Coleman's form was the worst ever, swinging bicep curls, quarter squats, bouncing benches. You could literally see him deflate his chest, then bounce the bar off massively on each rep. Its like he's trying to use the heaviest weight in the gym regardless of form.

I think there's a limit though, bad form deadlift is a whole different game to bad form bicep curls. A number of people snap city on good form diddys, much less bad form.
post 1615954151 09-08-2020, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted By wd0694820⏩
Imo it depends on the movement. If you stop doing bicep curls as soon as your elbow joint starts moving even slightly your defo losing out on gains, let’s say you can do 8 reps perfect form before you can’t maintain it- the correct way to do it is to do 8 reps perfect form then another 3-4 cheat reps. Or for example on pullups, if I can do 15 pullups really strict then another 2-3 cheat reps then defo do those cheat reps rather than just stopping when you can’t do full RoM anymore. But on something like a barbell bench press where the risk of serious injury is quite high I wouldn’t do any cheat reps
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post 1615954251 09-08-2020, 05:49 PM
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It depends. Perfect form isn't necessary. It's good for maximizing risk aversion to injury. But a lot of times it hold guys back.

For example, I was doing barbell rows and single arm db rows with some momentum but controlled. This allowed me to drive my reps and weight up and build strength much quicker.

I would say on the big 3 technique is very important for pushing bigger numbers long term. Otherwise you'll end up with nagging issues becoming injuries with bad motor patterns. I've been there on that.

I prefer doing a mix. It just depends on what exercises and what are your goals.
post 1615954291 09-08-2020, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
That's the thing. How many times have you seen someone deadlift with a back curved like a cat taking a chit? I've seen plenty, some getting to 500/600 lb deadlifts. I've legit never seen anyone hurt their back this way (srs). I've seen more people tear their bicep from deadlifting than getting a real back injury deadlifting (as in not just a pulled muscle). But the Chad Cheater would deadlift with double overhand with straps, so no bicep injury. The ultimate form of irony that the guy sticking to strict form is more likely to get hurt
You ever meet a 40 year old powerlifter who isn't a broken down mess?
post 1615954381 09-08-2020, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted By KBurn⏩
Its funny how Ronnie Coleman's form was the worst ever, swinging bicep curls, quarter squats, bouncing benches. You could literally see him deflate his chest, then bounce the bar off massively on each rep. Its like he's trying to use the heaviest weight in the gym regardless of form.

I think there's a limit though, bad form deadlift is a whole different game to bad form bicep curls. A number of people snap city on good form diddys, much less bad form.
How about we compare present day Ronnie to present day Lee Haney?
post 1615954561 09-08-2020, 05:52 PM
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Another point on injuries.

It's not commonly known, but lifting heavier weights strengthens not only your muscle but also your ligaments/tendons/other connective tissues and even your bones. If someone was always lifting with bad form, they're probably not at more risk of more injury because of this effect. And like I said, I just haven't seen these cases of people herniating their disks from bending their backs a little. We always warn lifters of this happening, but where are the cases?
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1615954661 09-08-2020, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
You ever meet a 40 year old powerlifter who isn't a broken down mess?
Yes, plenty. I've even seen like a 90 year old man deadlift over 400 on youtube. Most everyone gets a bad back when they get older, lifting or not. Just cause someone gets old with a bad back doesn't mean it was because they lifted.
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1615955151 09-08-2020, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
Another point on injuries.

It's not commonly known, but lifting heavier weights strengthens not only your muscle but also your ligaments/tendons/other connective tissues and even your bones. If someone was always lifting with bad form, they're probably not at more risk of more injury because of this effect. And like I said, I just haven't seen these cases of people herniating their disks from bending their backs a little. We always warn lifters of this happening, but where are the cases?
I've been around a lot of gyms and lifted with a lot of different people. Most people get injured deadlifting, squatting, or benching with bad form. I deadlifted with solid form, and I was warming up during a max day going for around 535-545lbs on that day. I had 225lbs on the bar which was weightless to me for deadlifting so I didn't even brace my abs. I ripped it up but as soon as it left the ground I pulled my piriformis which put pressure on my sciatic nerve. Couldn't tie my shoes for a week.

It happens all the time. Buddy tore his rotater cuff benching with iffy form. I've seen lots of injuries from squatting and deadlifting with bad form.

The goal is to hit a few key aspects. You don't have to have perfect form. But you do need to brace your abs, maintain your spinal position throughout the lift, and maintain full body tightness. Otherwise you risk injury.

Big movements are different than isolations though so of course id just depends.

For the most part I agree with you though OP.
post 1615955171 09-08-2020, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
How about we compare present day Ronnie to present day Lee Haney?
Yeah, present day ronnie legit made me tear up, in pain 24/7/365. I cringed really hard when I saw him using crutches to the gym to do heavy leg presses. There's no point of further surgeries on him, he's surrounded by people who DGAF about him (other than maybe his wife). If they fix him up, he'll apply stress on the joint straight away and make it worse than before. It's like gluing something together, then applying stress on it straight after. He's gone. The only people he trusts are those who made him go for the heaviest weight possible at the expense of everything.

I think he's in the shape he is today not because of bad form, but the human body wasn't designed to be stressed that way with that much weight, especially combined with a bicycle. His diddy lifts had very good form, and he only ever quarter squated, so he's good on the essential lifts that'll fuk you up real bad. Swinging curls and bouncing bench will not cause you to go on crutches.
post 1615955461 09-08-2020, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted By FrankGrimes29⏩
I've been around a lot of gyms and lifted with a lot of different people. Most people get injured deadlifting, squatting, or benching with bad form. I deadlifted with solid form, and I was warming up during a max day going for around 535-545lbs on that day. I had 225lbs on the bar which was weightless to me for deadlifting so I didn't even brace my abs. I ripped it up but as soon as it left the ground I pulled my piriformis which put pressure on my sciatic nerve. Couldn't tie my shoes for a week.

It happens all the time. Buddy tore his rotater cuff benching with iffy form. I've seen lots of injuries from squatting and deadlifting with bad form.

The goal is to hit a few key aspects. You don't have to have perfect form. But you do need to brace your abs, maintain your spinal position throughout the lift, and maintain full body tightness. Otherwise you risk injury.

Big movements are different than isolations though so of course id just depends.

For the most part I agree with you though OP.
Pulled muscles I'll give you that. But I'm not scared of pulled muscles, torn muscles, hernias, slipped disks, the kind of stuff you never 100% recover from is what I'm worried about

Shoulder injuries are very common, as its a complex joint. Many people get overuse or imbalance injuries (eg their front delts are way too strong compared to their rear delts because all they do is bench). Good form or not, such a person is bound to get injured anyway. Bounding and heaving may even be easier on the shoulder since its assisting at the very bottom which is where most of the stress would be on the shoulder anyway
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1615955701 09-08-2020, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted By KBurn⏩
Yeah, present day ronnie legit made me tear up, in pain 24/7/365. I cringed really hard when I saw him using crutches to the gym to do heavy leg presses. There's no point of further surgeries on him, he's surrounded by people who DGAF about him (other than maybe his wife). If they fix him up, he'll apply stress on the joint straight away and make it worse than before. It's like gluing something together, then applying stress on it straight after. He's gone. The only people he trusts are those who made him go for the heaviest weight possible at the expense of everything.

I think he's in the shape he is today not because of bad form, but the human body wasn't designed to be stressed that way with that much weight, especially combined with a bicycle. His diddy lifts had very good form, and he only ever quarter squated, so he's good on the essential lifts that'll fuk you up real bad. Swinging curls and bouncing bench will not cause you to go on crutches.
I'd recommend you research more about Coleman, there's a bit more to it than just "he lifted a lot and is now crippled"

He has a strong genetic disposition to those hip/back injuries, and when he herniated the first time instead of recovering he kept trying to lift as heavy as he can so he kept breaking the rods/cages around his spine over and over again. In addition, all the bicycle riding he does is known to make your muscles stronger relative to your joints/connective tissues
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
post 1615955731 09-08-2020, 06:05 PM
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I read that almost all RC repairs eventually fail.

I'll stick with using controlled negatives and weight I can totally control.
post 1615956181 09-08-2020, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
Pulled muscles I'll give you that. But I'm not scared of pulled muscles, torn muscles, hernias, slipped disks, the kind of stuff you never 100% recover from is what I'm worried about

Shoulder injuries are very common, as its a complex joint. Many people get overuse or imbalance injuries (eg their front delts are way too strong compared to their rear delts because all they do is bench). Good form or not, such a person is bound to get injured anyway. Bounding and heaving may even be easier on the shoulder since its assisting at the very bottom which is where most of the stress would be on the shoulder anyway
See that's where I differ a bit. I used to bench very controlled, but never focusing on tucking my shoulder blades together or tucking my elbows. Eventually I was getting horrible shoulder and elbow pain. To the point where I could bench maybe 2-3 times a month if I was lucky. Since I took precautions and start benching with great form, I got stronger, bigger, and haven't had any chest injuries from benching. This was all with a lot of rear delt and back training. Mechanics is a big factor.

But most non-barbell movements don't need great form to work. I grew my back the biggest from doing heavy db croc rows just rowing as hard as possible. Didn't even think of form. Never had an injury from anything like that. All my injuries came from being lazy with form on big compound movements.

Honestly most movements come down to feeling. If it feels good or you can feel the muscle working, you're good.
post 1615956501 09-08-2020, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted By FrankGrimes29⏩
See that's where I differ a bit. I used to bench very controlled, but never focusing on tucking my shoulder blades together or tucking my elbows. Eventually I was getting horrible shoulder and elbow pain. To the point where I could bench maybe 2-3 times a month if I was lucky. Since I took precautions and start benching with great form, I got stronger, bigger, and haven't had any chest injuries from benching. This was all with a lot of rear delt and back training. Mechanics is a big factor.

But most non-barbell movements don't need great form to work. I grew my back the biggest from doing heavy db croc rows just rowing as hard as possible. Didn't even think of form. Never had an injury from anything like that. All my injuries came from being lazy with form on big compound movements.

Honestly most movements come down to feeling. If it feels good or you can feel the muscle working, you're good.
Similar thing happened to me, my shoulders would be in a bit of pain for days after doing presses, I thought it was bad form and couldn’t figure it out. It got to a point where I just couldn’t do the lift anymore. I read somewhere that you should try training your rear delts more, after like 2 workouts of doing rear delt flies I was 100 percent.

Also agree on going by feel. Cheating or not if you feel pain you should stop
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x5
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 205x5
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
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