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Becoming Ourselves: Did 9/11 seed a generation of snowflakes?
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03-18-2021, 11:07 AM
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#1
Becoming Ourselves: Did 9/11 seed a generation of snowflakes?
Started watching this interview of Gabor Mate by Tom Bilyeu while eating my "breakfast" turkey sandwich. Seems like it will be very information dense and less than 10 minutes in I've already started down various mental rabbit tracks about trauma, parenting, free will, and psychological warfare.
Warning: I find Mate difficult to listen to and wish there were text. He speaks quickly, is rather monotone, and mumbles.
Andthis is the bit that sparked the decision to write up thread since wokeism is a thing; and a fairly new one. I wonder if the generation that has embraced it could have been primed to do so by the effect of world events on their mothers (9/11 and the 2008 Crash come to mind).Were these young people primed to not see some real threats and/or to see threats where no real threat exists because they have an abnormal stress response system and a high level of anxiety?
So many questions...
- Should pregnant women receive extra support? Be given some special status while pregnant?
- Can early childhood education or the public schools system counteract the effects of early childhood trauma? Should they try to?
- Is the bar for removing a child from a home too high? Maybe instead of removing the child at risk families should be relocated to a group "home of homes" with social worker supervision? Does the lifelong health and well being of a child trump adult privacy rights?
- Should factors like maturity and resilience be considered when it comes to media access? Can we effect functional guard rails to protect the vulnerable from psychological warfare and malefic manipulation while still preserving the ideals of personal freedom?
This type of knowledge makes me very interested in when (if ever) the human brain is mature enough to truly distinguish between what is real and what is not real. Does our body's stress response differentiate real from video? What about real from virtual reality? Could there be real and potentially lasting harm from watching traumatic or violent content?
Warning: I find Mate difficult to listen to and wish there were text. He speaks quickly, is rather monotone, and mumbles.
It has been known for some time that some biological functions that underlie our personalities begin to form while we are still in our mothers’ wombs.
According to Gabor Mate native societies already had some awareness of this and had a shared cultural tradition of keeping angry people away from pregnant women because they didn’t want the anger to transfer to the child.
There was a study done on the infants of mothers who suffered PTSD due to the events of 9/11 during their pregnancy. When they examined the infants a year later they still had abnormal stress hormone levels.Their brain’s ability to perceive and process stress was impaired. These children may not be able to recognize stress when it is there, or may perceive threats when there are none.
Very interesting if you are familiar with Adverse Childhood Events (ACEs) and how higher ACEs score correlate with a variety of health issues and an apparent lower quality of life. Something like your mother being in an abusive relationship or being involved in a traumatic car accident while she was pregnant with you could affect your innate sense of security in the world.According to Gabor Mate native societies already had some awareness of this and had a shared cultural tradition of keeping angry people away from pregnant women because they didn’t want the anger to transfer to the child.
There was a study done on the infants of mothers who suffered PTSD due to the events of 9/11 during their pregnancy. When they examined the infants a year later they still had abnormal stress hormone levels.Their brain’s ability to perceive and process stress was impaired. These children may not be able to recognize stress when it is there, or may perceive threats when there are none.
Andthis is the bit that sparked the decision to write up thread since wokeism is a thing; and a fairly new one. I wonder if the generation that has embraced it could have been primed to do so by the effect of world events on their mothers (9/11 and the 2008 Crash come to mind).Were these young people primed to not see some real threats and/or to see threats where no real threat exists because they have an abnormal stress response system and a high level of anxiety?
Mate describesstress(the negative type) asa situation that the organism doesn’t know how to respond to; it’s too much- one is overwhelmed. The biggest triggers of stress uncovered by research are:
Loss of control
Uncertainty/lack of information
Conflict
“In this society (it) happens a lot. People are stressed, often beyond their capacity to deal with it. That capacity is programmed by what happened to us very early in life.”
"Beyond their capacity to deal with it" would seem to be a decent description of the stress levels of a lot of people over the past year or so. Is there some hope that a "new normal" will at least turn down the burner under this pot?Loss of control
Uncertainty/lack of information
Conflict
“In this society (it) happens a lot. People are stressed, often beyond their capacity to deal with it. That capacity is programmed by what happened to us very early in life.”
Tom Bilyeu asked Gabor Mate if these biological changes that occur can be reversed; if there is a time period during the hyper malleability of early childhood when the damage can be undone, or if the effect is imprinted, or in other words permanent.
Mate’s response:
“It is imprinted in many ways biologically, which we can talk about, that the person is not even aware of.Imprinted in how the genes are turned on and off, imprinted in how the chromosomes function, imprinted in how the stress apparatus responds to the external environment, imprinted in the cells, imprinted in inflammation in their bodies, and so on and so on.
And the earlier it happens and the more it happens and the more temperamentally sensitive the child is the greater the effects.
Having said that it is never not reversible, it is never not approachable.Now the fact is people can heal. People can rewire themselves. People can find an equilibrium. But the more that happened and the more earlier it happened the more difficult that becomes.
Which brings me to my epitaph which I have designed for my gravestone. Do you know what it is going to say? It is going to say “It was a lot more work than I had anticipated.””
Nice that Mate believes that hope exists, though it is tough to imagine that more than a minority of people will have the awareness that this is a problem within themselves that need fixing AND put in the work to get better.Mate’s response:
“It is imprinted in many ways biologically, which we can talk about, that the person is not even aware of.Imprinted in how the genes are turned on and off, imprinted in how the chromosomes function, imprinted in how the stress apparatus responds to the external environment, imprinted in the cells, imprinted in inflammation in their bodies, and so on and so on.
And the earlier it happens and the more it happens and the more temperamentally sensitive the child is the greater the effects.
Having said that it is never not reversible, it is never not approachable.Now the fact is people can heal. People can rewire themselves. People can find an equilibrium. But the more that happened and the more earlier it happened the more difficult that becomes.
Which brings me to my epitaph which I have designed for my gravestone. Do you know what it is going to say? It is going to say “It was a lot more work than I had anticipated.””
So many questions...
- Should pregnant women receive extra support? Be given some special status while pregnant?
- Can early childhood education or the public schools system counteract the effects of early childhood trauma? Should they try to?
- Is the bar for removing a child from a home too high? Maybe instead of removing the child at risk families should be relocated to a group "home of homes" with social worker supervision? Does the lifelong health and well being of a child trump adult privacy rights?
- Should factors like maturity and resilience be considered when it comes to media access? Can we effect functional guard rails to protect the vulnerable from psychological warfare and malefic manipulation while still preserving the ideals of personal freedom?
This type of knowledge makes me very interested in when (if ever) the human brain is mature enough to truly distinguish between what is real and what is not real. Does our body's stress response differentiate real from video? What about real from virtual reality? Could there be real and potentially lasting harm from watching traumatic or violent content?
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03-18-2021, 11:12 AM
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#2
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All you need to know about what created a generation(s) of snowflakes, is look at the last generation of kids that got an actual ass-whippin for punishment vs. the following generations that did/do not. It is really that simple.
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03-18-2021, 11:14 AM
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Seems plausible this could have some sort of influence. But the MSM, Hollywood, academics, and various other institutions actively training people to hate themselves and their country is a way bigger cause of the "Woke" hate-cult. I mean we live in the safest time in history, right? So how fukked was EVERY generation before us?
03-18-2021, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted By kcadrenalin⏩
'This. Spanking and actual discipline is what helped me not become a degenerate ******* SRSAll you need to know about what created a generation(s) of snowflakes, is look at the last generation of kids that got an actual ass-whippin for punishment vs. the following generations that did/do not. It is really that simple.
𝗣𝗨𝗥𝗘𝗕𝗟𝗢𝗢𝗗
ωσяℓ∂ тяανєℓєя ȼяєω ₅₀/₁₉₅
𝕬𝖊𝖘𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖙𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖑𝖑𝖞 𝕮𝖚𝖙 𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗 𝕽𝖆𝖈𝖊 ®
ᗪIᔕᑕᖇIᗰIᑎᗩTIOᑎ E᙭ᑕᒪᑌᔕIOᑎ IᑎᗪOᑕTᖇIᑎᗩTIOᑎ
03-18-2021, 11:22 AM
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#5
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Did not watch, because part of me just doesn't care (feel free to roast me for this). I know a woman who has made her non-existent trauma her entire personality. She will not shut the fuk up about "ancestral trauma" and how she's a victim of who knows what and look, I believe there is research on this, 100% but let me tell you, it is a fuking mind trip to have someone convince you that they're incapable of functioning and having a job because of something that happened to their grandmother. It wouldn't even occur to me to bring up the crazy chit I've gone through so people would feel sorry for me on my bad days.
I've read plenty on the primal wound and ancestral trauma and all of that and the truth is none of it matters. Life is hard and you need to figure out how to be resilient, otherwise you're going to be a textbook zoomer with a personality disorder. It's an interesting topic, but I also think discussing it at length gives the worst people permission to not grow.
I've read plenty on the primal wound and ancestral trauma and all of that and the truth is none of it matters. Life is hard and you need to figure out how to be resilient, otherwise you're going to be a textbook zoomer with a personality disorder. It's an interesting topic, but I also think discussing it at length gives the worst people permission to not grow.
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03-18-2021, 11:41 AM
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#6
There is absolutely something not functioning well with parenting in general. I don't know that physical discipline is the root of it, but maybe a failure to establish clear roles and boundaries, IOW "I'm the parent, you are the child. Here is what you are expected to do, what you are allowed to do, what you are not allowed to do."
I just fairly recently read some about how a lack of validation hurts children, as in being ignored or not getting enough attention. I suspect that is something that has worsened overall with both parents working or a single parent due to simple time constraints and parent[s] being tired. Then drop all of our collective screen time on top of that.
Nothing about ancestral trauma. I believe this guy has mostly worked with people who struggle with addiction and it was straight up how you have physiological changes that occur as a response to trauma and that this begins before you are even born. Not spiritual fuzzy woo stuff.
I just fairly recently read some about how a lack of validation hurts children, as in being ignored or not getting enough attention. I suspect that is something that has worsened overall with both parents working or a single parent due to simple time constraints and parent[s] being tired. Then drop all of our collective screen time on top of that.
Originally Posted By redraider86⏩
It is kind of slow going; not mad.Did not watch, because part of me just doesn't care (feel free to roast me for this). I know a woman who has made her non-existent trauma her entire personality. She will not shut the fuk up about "ancestral trauma" and how she's a victim of who knows what and look, I believe there is research on this, 100% but let me tell you, it is a fuking mind trip to have someone convince you that they're incapable of functioning and having a job because of something that happened to their grandmother. It wouldn't even occur to me to bring up the crazy chit I've gone through so people would feel sorry for me on my bad days.
I've read plenty on the primal wound and ancestral trauma and all of that and the truth is none of it matters. Life is hard and you need to figure out how to be resilient, otherwise you're going to be a textbook zoomer with a personality disorder. It's an interesting topic, but I also think discussing it at length gives the worst people permission to not grow.
I've read plenty on the primal wound and ancestral trauma and all of that and the truth is none of it matters. Life is hard and you need to figure out how to be resilient, otherwise you're going to be a textbook zoomer with a personality disorder. It's an interesting topic, but I also think discussing it at length gives the worst people permission to not grow.
Nothing about ancestral trauma. I believe this guy has mostly worked with people who struggle with addiction and it was straight up how you have physiological changes that occur as a response to trauma and that this begins before you are even born. Not spiritual fuzzy woo stuff.
Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
Maybe a better title would have been "prepared the ground"? More like "are younger people less resilient and more anxious because of events their mothers' experienced?"Seems plausible this could have some sort of influence.But the MSM, Hollywood, academics, and various other institutions actively training people to hate themselves and their country is a way bigger cause of the "Woke" hate-cult.I mean we live in the safest time in history, right? So how fukked was EVERY generation before us?
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03-18-2021, 11:46 AM
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#7
This has been the next little chunk. Gabor said that he has to be mindful to practice good self-care (mentions yoga, exercise, not taking on too many tasks at one time).
Tom asked why it is that some people seem to be able to overcome a traumatic past while other people get stuck:
Tom asked why it is that some people seem to be able to overcome a traumatic past while other people get stuck:
"Trauma has multiple manifestations of which addiction is only one.
Addiction
Mental illnesses
Depression
Anxiety
Adhd
Ptsd
Chronic physical illness
Cancer
Autoimmune disease
What makes the difference? I don’t think it is one single factor, but there are a number:
- Has there been anybody along the way that was empathetic and supportive to you? If there was that can make it, no matter what happened, that can make a huge difference.
- The earlier in your life the better, but if there was a teacher, an uncle, an aunt, anybody who really couldn’t change your situation but who would listen to you and validate you empathetically that can make a difference.
- Social class can have a lot to do with it because if you can afford to see a therapist and talk to somebody that puts you at an advantage.
- How much stress you continue to be under in your life, that has a lot to do with it. When people are struggling just to survive it’s hard for them to consider transformation. So people that are under economic pressure or racially oppressed or, um, under economic threat, political conflict, these make it difficult for people, because people are just in survival mode.
- People that are highly sensitive, they are both at an advantage and a disadvantage. They are at a disadvantage that the more sensitive they are the more it hurts when stuff happens. But also the more sensitive they are the more likely they are to have some insight or some awareness or some creative outlet. So that can work both ways.
I would say the biggest factor is having a supportive person in your life.When you talk to people(who are able to change)even when they are deep in addiction and you ask them what made a difference they say “Somebody talked to me like a human being; somebody didn’t judge me, they accepted me.”
Addiction
Mental illnesses
Depression
Anxiety
Adhd
Ptsd
Chronic physical illness
Cancer
Autoimmune disease
What makes the difference? I don’t think it is one single factor, but there are a number:
- Has there been anybody along the way that was empathetic and supportive to you? If there was that can make it, no matter what happened, that can make a huge difference.
- The earlier in your life the better, but if there was a teacher, an uncle, an aunt, anybody who really couldn’t change your situation but who would listen to you and validate you empathetically that can make a difference.
- Social class can have a lot to do with it because if you can afford to see a therapist and talk to somebody that puts you at an advantage.
- How much stress you continue to be under in your life, that has a lot to do with it. When people are struggling just to survive it’s hard for them to consider transformation. So people that are under economic pressure or racially oppressed or, um, under economic threat, political conflict, these make it difficult for people, because people are just in survival mode.
- People that are highly sensitive, they are both at an advantage and a disadvantage. They are at a disadvantage that the more sensitive they are the more it hurts when stuff happens. But also the more sensitive they are the more likely they are to have some insight or some awareness or some creative outlet. So that can work both ways.
I would say the biggest factor is having a supportive person in your life.When you talk to people(who are able to change)even when they are deep in addiction and you ask them what made a difference they say “Somebody talked to me like a human being; somebody didn’t judge me, they accepted me.”
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03-18-2021, 11:52 AM
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#8
03-18-2021, 11:54 AM
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#9
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Living "through" 9/11 and a housing crisis is hardly comparable to what people experienced even 50 or 100 years ago. It was SO MUCH WORSE every century going back, and it just got worse and worse from there back. This sorta thinking is just coddling this sh!tty, brainwashed generation for being in a gut when a terrorist attack happened...what about the children of people who lived through, IDK, the Middle Ages? Or any era when human sacrifice was a part of mainstream culture?Maybe a better title would have been "prepared the ground"? More like "are younger people less resilient and more anxious because of events their mothers' experienced?"
Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting line of thought. But are they glossing over the constant fear instilled by propaganda force-fed to people? Just cherry picking events? 9/11 was one thing, the fear mongering the media took part in after the fact is more effective for long-term hormone changes. Just like all the commie propaganda making everything about race, gender, and sexuality is making everyone live in constant paranoia and anxiety right now.
Moreover, like I said...if this was so prominent, it should be leveling off, considering the horrors of history are way worse in any other time period. So all THOSE generations would be wildly, wildly, fuked up. The boomers were in the gut during WWII, does that mean Gen Z has to stop trashing them every turn?
03-18-2021, 11:54 AM
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#10
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Originally Posted By kcadrenalin⏩
Agree with the boomer. Knowing my dad would kick the fuk out of me kept me in line growing up. Still got a slap for being a little twat occasionally but never ended up a drug addict or criminal.All you need to know about what created a generation(s) of snowflakes, is look at the last generation of kids that got an actual ass-whippin for punishment vs. the following generations that did/do not. It is really that simple.
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03-18-2021, 12:03 PM
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#11
Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
I sincerely don't have a clear answer about that. I do think that the phrase "beyond their capacity to deal with it" probably plays a role here.Living "through" 9/11 and a housing crisis is hardly comparable to what people experienced even 50 or 100 years ago. It was SO MUCH WORSE every century going back, and it just got worse and worse from there back. This sorta thinking is just coddling this sh!tty, brainwashed generation for being in a gut when a terrorist attack happened...what about the children of people who lived through, IDK, the Middle Ages? Or any era when human sacrifice was a part of mainstream culture?
Are we engaged in a type of spiral? Meaning does the exposure to early trauma cause physiological changes down to the genetic level that then manifests in the proceeding generation being more anxious/less resilient?
Does it set the stage for each generation being more easily traumatized due to a lower stress tolerance threshold?
I also think you could build a decent case that "loss of control" as a state of being has increased with industrialization and the increased bureaucracy of modern governments.
We arguably have access to more information than at any time in the history of humankind. At the same time the quality of that information is highly variable and it is a lot of mental work to determine which information is valid (uncertainty).
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03-18-2021, 12:04 PM
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#12
03-18-2021, 12:27 PM
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#13
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
I would say the anxiety response is more manufactured than anything. Clear cut example - despite statistics in the US showcasing a steady increase in population from the '80s until the 2010s (not necessarily births, just overall population), it also showed a steady DECREASE in homicide, theft, violent crime, and arson. If there are MORE PEOPLE who are SAFER and LESS VIOLENT, why then, has the MSM been pitting race against race, gender against gender, just this obsessive, nonstop force-feeding of CRT and weaponized identity politics? The past decade has seen an increasingly high number of people falling to political extremism. Almost as if the elite want to manufacture and maintain the same fear response in people - in fear and docile, or enraged and self-destructive.I sincerely don't have a clear answer about that. I do think that the phrase "beyond their capacity to deal with it" probably plays a role here.
Are we engaged in a type of spiral? Meaning does the exposure to early trauma cause physiological changes down to the genetic level that then manifests in the proceeding generation being more anxious/less resilient?
Does it set the stage for each generation being more easily traumatized due to a lower stress tolerance threshold?
I also think you could build a decent case that "loss of control" as a state of being has increased with industrialization and the increased bureaucracy of modern governments.
We arguably have access to more information than at any time in the history of humankind. At the same time the quality of that information is highly variable and it is a lot of mental work to determine which information is valid (uncertainty).
Are we engaged in a type of spiral? Meaning does the exposure to early trauma cause physiological changes down to the genetic level that then manifests in the proceeding generation being more anxious/less resilient?
Does it set the stage for each generation being more easily traumatized due to a lower stress tolerance threshold?
I also think you could build a decent case that "loss of control" as a state of being has increased with industrialization and the increased bureaucracy of modern governments.
We arguably have access to more information than at any time in the history of humankind. At the same time the quality of that information is highly variable and it is a lot of mental work to determine which information is valid (uncertainty).
It's like media is trying to keep people as degenerate, afraid, and distrustful of each other and themselves as possible."Don't trust your neighbor. Don't trust your family. Don't trust YOURSELF OR YOUR BIOLOGY. Up is down, left is right, racism is bad but we must dehumanize white people."Not to sound too hyperbolic, but it almost seems like the elite are SO DESPERATE for a constant state of "Order out of chaos" that they constantly manufacture things for people to be scared of / outraged by, when most people are just trying to live and let live. Culture and society itself gaslights people nonstop, as if the culture itself is suicidal, that the society itself wants to collapse. It's really odd.
So when culture itself is training people to feel constant shame, self-doubt, self-hatred, fear, and questioning the validity of even common knowledge and basic irrefutable facts, the whole of society starts to crumble in on itself and collapse under the ideological strain, people getting congealed into collectivist hive-minds and damning their own children in the process.
Like you said, information is instantaneous. So why is all the instant information always so negative? Or so ironic? Or so snarky? It seems like sincerity and amicability are totally toned out by all the outrage and people trying to one-up each other. Or maybe I'm just nuts cuz my mom was alive during Vietnam? IDK
03-18-2021, 12:29 PM
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#14
Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
This guy always makes great postsI would say the anxiety response is more manufactured than anything. Clear cut example - despite statistics in the US showcasing a steady increase in population from the '80s until the 2010s (not necessarily births, just overall population), it also showed a steady DECREASE in homicide, theft, violent crime, and arson. So why, then, has the MSM been pitting race against race, gender against gender, just this obsessive, nonstop force-feeding of CRT and weaponized identity politics? Because it manufactures the same fear response people would have when actual hardship and strife was experienced.
It's like media is trying to keep people as degenerate, afraid, and distrustful of each other and themselves as possible."Don't trust your neighbor. Don't trust your family. Don't trust YOURSELF OR YOUR BIOLOGY. Up is down, left is right, racism is bad but we must dehumanize white people."Not to sound too hyperbolic, but it almost seems like the elite are SO DESPERATE for a constant state of "Order out of chaos" that they constantly manufacture things for people to be scared of / outraged by, when most people are just trying to live and let live. Culture and society itself gaslights people nonstop, as if the culture itself is suicidal, that the society itself wants to collapse. It's really odd.
It's like media is trying to keep people as degenerate, afraid, and distrustful of each other and themselves as possible."Don't trust your neighbor. Don't trust your family. Don't trust YOURSELF OR YOUR BIOLOGY. Up is down, left is right, racism is bad but we must dehumanize white people."Not to sound too hyperbolic, but it almost seems like the elite are SO DESPERATE for a constant state of "Order out of chaos" that they constantly manufacture things for people to be scared of / outraged by, when most people are just trying to live and let live. Culture and society itself gaslights people nonstop, as if the culture itself is suicidal, that the society itself wants to collapse. It's really odd.
It's the media manufacturing most of this stuff
Picked up post 2012 when everyone got themselves a phone and social media addiction unfortunately
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03-18-2021, 12:31 PM
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#15
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Originally Posted By kcadrenalin⏩
There's definitely a biological thing going on too. Just look at the faces of teenagers now compared to 50 years ago, there's no way there isn't some hormonal thing going on.All you need to know about what created a generation(s) of snowflakes, is look at the last generation of kids that got an actual ass-whippin for punishment vs. the following generations that did/do not. It is really that simple.
03-18-2021, 12:34 PM
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#16
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Originally Posted By yewotm8⏩
That's more than likely due to chemicals in processed food and drinks, screen time, more time spent inside in front of screens, less time outside, etc. We're probably all overdosing on caffeine half the time.There's definitely a biological thing going on too. Just look at the faces of teenagers now compared to 50 years ago, there's no way there isn't some hormonal thing going on.
03-18-2021, 12:36 PM
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#17
- blissful88
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Originally Posted By yewotm8⏩
I swear to god every time you see a random 16 year old they have gay face nowThere's definitely a biological thing going on too. Just look at the faces of teenagers now compared to 50 years ago, there's no way there isn't some hormonal thing going on.
Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
It's partly hormonal but mostly genetics, what's really going on is every single generation becomes more "muddled" and impure in bloodline, so the physicality of each child so on and so forth becomes more inferior as a wholeThat's more than likely due to chemicals in processed food and drinks, screen time, more time spent inside in front of screens, less time outside, etc. We're probably all overdosing on caffeine half the time.
There's obviously rare exceptions brought on by two aesthetic successful parents but in general people are just dog chit ugly now compared to say, the 1950's
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03-18-2021, 12:52 PM
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#18
- TBO1313
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Originally Posted By redraider86⏩
LMFAO. Is she claiming some sort of epigenetic reaction to the traumas of her ancestors? I need to know more about thisShe will not shut the fuk up about "ancestral trauma"
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03-18-2021, 01:01 PM
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#19
- AltarOfPlagues
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Originally Posted By redraider86⏩
this is the explanation put forth by adlerian psychology and explained really simply in the hit self help popularist book "the courage to be disliked".Did not watch, because part of me just doesn't care (feel free to roast me for this). I know a woman who has made her non-existent trauma her entire personality.
people act how they want to act, and then construct really complex narrative on why they act the way that they do. its call psychological teleology.
to the op:
be always incredulous of really simplistic meta-narrative bc its like 95% dogchit malcolm gladwell tier hot garbage mouth.
do not read my posts and weep, i am not there i do not sleep
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of memes and trolls in toasted breads, i am not there, i am not dead.
03-18-2021, 01:09 PM
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#20
Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
Snipped to clarify what I'm responding to.I would say the anxiety response is more manufactured than anything. The past decade has seen an increasingly high number of people falling to political extremism. Almost as if the elite want to manufacture and maintain the same fear response in people - in fear and docile, or enraged and self-destructive.
It's like media is trying to keep people as degenerate, afraid, and distrustful of each other and themselves as possible."Don't trust your neighbor. Don't trust your family. Don't trust YOURSELF OR YOUR BIOLOGY. Up is down, left is right, racism is bad but we must dehumanize white people."Not to sound too hyperbolic, but it almost seems like the elite are SO DESPERATE for a constant state of "Order out of chaos" that they constantly manufacture things for people to be scared of / outraged by, when most people are just trying to live and let live. Culture and society itself gaslights people nonstop, as if the culture itself is suicidal, that the society itself wants to collapse. It's really odd.
Like you said, information is instantaneous. So why is all the instant information always so negative? Or so ironic? Or so snarky? It seems like sincerity and amicability are totally toned out by all the outrage and people trying to one-up each other. Or maybe I'm just nuts cuz my mom was alive during Vietnam? IDK
It's like media is trying to keep people as degenerate, afraid, and distrustful of each other and themselves as possible."Don't trust your neighbor. Don't trust your family. Don't trust YOURSELF OR YOUR BIOLOGY. Up is down, left is right, racism is bad but we must dehumanize white people."Not to sound too hyperbolic, but it almost seems like the elite are SO DESPERATE for a constant state of "Order out of chaos" that they constantly manufacture things for people to be scared of / outraged by, when most people are just trying to live and let live. Culture and society itself gaslights people nonstop, as if the culture itself is suicidal, that the society itself wants to collapse. It's really odd.
Like you said, information is instantaneous. So why is all the instant information always so negative? Or so ironic? Or so snarky? It seems like sincerity and amicability are totally toned out by all the outrage and people trying to one-up each other. Or maybe I'm just nuts cuz my mom was alive during Vietnam? IDK
I believe that there are at least two big drivers re:fear and division.
On fear I think that maybe we screwed up somewhere with making our news organizations operate as profit centers. TV news, and to a lesser degree newspapers, profit from stories that create an emotional response. It makes sense that we would be wired to pay more attention to information that is related to some type of threat vs. information that is neutral or positive.
About division and the rise of identity politics Eric Weinstein has said that identity politics is the cheapest way for a candidate or party to buy a vote. If they have to actually do something for your benefit in the real world that costs money. Lip service is cheap. It costs nothing but your dignity (if you have any) to kneel before blacks in apology for your original sin of being born a white man. Stuff like job training, childcare, and better schools cost actual cash.
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03-18-2021, 01:09 PM
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#21
- redraider86
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Originally Posted By TBO1313⏩
I think so? So this happened at a very nicely planned catered dinner where we naturally paired off. It started out with her telling me about her food allergies and why she couldn't partake in normal food or even be in the room with people consuming even vegetarian food because of some ancestral bullchit. Then she literally did a war cry (whatever you're picturing is exactly how it happened) to thank her ancestors for her sad bowl of oatmeal as I tried desperately not to burst out laughing and eat my delicious normal food without choking to death. A very small part of me wanted to be like, yeah man, my birth mother had a bunch of schizophrenic episodes when she was pregnant with me and then there's that whole holocaust thing yet somehow I manage to not have a histrionic meltdown when around chicken but go off sisLMFAO. Is she claiming some sort of epigenetic reaction to the traumas of her ancestors? I need to know more about this
Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
That sounds way too smart for what I'm capable of but I'll read up on it.this is the explanation put forth by adlerian psychology and explained really simply in the hit self help popularist book "the courage to be disliked".
people act how they want to act, and then construct really complex narrative on why they act the way that they do. its call psychological teleology.
people act how they want to act, and then construct really complex narrative on why they act the way that they do. its call psychological teleology.
Train hard, train smart, have fun!
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03-18-2021, 01:13 PM
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#22
- binladenUsama
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Cute thread bb.
03-18-2021, 01:15 PM
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#23
- jtaylor2010
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There are lots of factors that lead to the current state of our youth, and while he may have a point about the impacts of childhood trauma, kids today have it easier than ever. Unfortunately, they are also weaker than ever. So what a kid could’ve taken in stride 30 years ago is now traumatic for lots of kids. And the answer is not to coddle them further, but to make them more resilient. It’s like the classic JFK saying “Do not pray for easy lives, pray to be stronger men.” Again, while I think there are lots of factors like erosion of the nuclear family, shift in familial approaches to parenting, people having fewer children so kids have fewer siblings, and a change in how society treats children....the first step towards improvement is raising kids to be tougher. Unfortunately we’re just going even further in the direction we’ve been going. By the time a real crisis hits millions of people will be relegated to crying piles of useless mass on the floor, and we got a little taste of that last year.
Anyway, here’s a good podcast on how “the gift of failure” is one of the greatest things we can give our kids. I think her book should be required reading for every parent.
Anyway, here’s a good podcast on how “the gift of failure” is one of the greatest things we can give our kids. I think her book should be required reading for every parent.
03-18-2021, 01:17 PM
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#24
- kcadrenalin
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Originally Posted By redraider86⏩
Lulz Actually laughed out loud reading that. Not sure I could have kept from laughing at her.Then she literally did a war cry (whatever you're picturing is exactly how it happened) to thank her ancestors for her sad bowl of oatmeal as I tried desperately not to burst out laughing and eat my delicious normal food without choking to death. A very small part of me wanted to be like, yeah man, my birth mother had a bunch of schizophrenic episodes when she was pregnant with me and then there's that whole holocaust thing yet somehow I manage to not have a histrionic meltdown when around chicken but go off sis
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin
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03-18-2021, 01:19 PM
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#25
03-18-2021, 01:30 PM
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#26
- AltarOfPlagues
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theres 2x more motherfukers in the US than there was in the 50s
wokeism is just new progressivism trying to exhaust the supply of perceived oppression, seekin out every last minutia of it - "selma envy"
every dickhead has a camera on their phone
us dickheads keep lookin at the videos thus rewarding crazy behavior
theres the metanarrative lets get this best seller
wokeism is just new progressivism trying to exhaust the supply of perceived oppression, seekin out every last minutia of it - "selma envy"
every dickhead has a camera on their phone
us dickheads keep lookin at the videos thus rewarding crazy behavior
theres the metanarrative lets get this best seller
do not read my posts and weep, i am not there i do not sleep
i am the thousand greens that rep, i am the ban bet dutifully kept
of memes and trolls in toasted breads, i am not there, i am not dead.
03-18-2021, 01:59 PM
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#27
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Around the 40 minute mark Tom talks aboutJeffrey Canadawhobelieves that the two largest factors for becoming a successful adult are 1) the number of words a child hears by the age of 3 and 2) the ratio of positive to negative. He basically attributes it to the language centers of the brain developing and if you give the brain a paltry environment in the crucial stage of early childhood you get an underdeveloped language center which ends up holding then back later when communication becomes extraordinarily important.There are lots of factors that lead to the current state of our youth, and while he may have a point about the impacts of childhood trauma, kids today have it easier than ever. Unfortunately, they are also weaker than ever. So what a kid could’ve taken in stride 30 years ago is now traumatic for lots of kids.And the answer is not to coddle them further, but to make them more resilient.It’s like the classic JFK saying “Do not pray for easy lives, pray to be stronger men.” Again, while I think there are lots of factors like erosion of the nuclear family, shift in familial approaches to parenting, people having fewer children so kids have fewer siblings, and a change in how society treats children....the first step towards improvement is raising kids to be tougher. Unfortunately we’re just going even further in the direction we’ve been going. By the time a real crisis hits millions of people will be relegated to crying piles of useless mass on the floor, and we got a little taste of that last year.
Anyway, here’s a good podcast on how “the gift of failure” is one of the greatest things we can give our kids. I think her book should be required reading for every parent.
Anyway, here’s a good podcast on how “the gift of failure” is one of the greatest things we can give our kids. I think her book should be required reading for every parent.
Matesays that hedoes not agree. He believes that language development is important, but that there is a deeper layer- emotional development.Mate says that the left side of the brain which holds the unconscious develops prior to the language centers on the right side of the brain.
"There's lots of people with beautiful language development, who are articulate, they are called professors and academics, who are emotionally infants.Sometimes the language center can become a refuge from a lack of emotional grounding."
Mate goes on to speak about a neuroscientist who looked at what brain functions humans have in common with other animals:
- seeking
- lust
- rage
- caring
- grief
- panic
- play
"Infants are playing peek a boo at 2 months. And play is much more important for the brain than language is."
"Play sets your sense of self in the world."
I'm not sure if a majority of children are overly protected and spoiled (though some certainly are) or if it is that an essential stage of child development isn't being prioritized.Mate goes on to speak about a neuroscientist who looked at what brain functions humans have in common with other animals:
- seeking
- lust
- rage
- caring
- grief
- panic
- play
"Infants are playing peek a boo at 2 months. And play is much more important for the brain than language is."
"Play sets your sense of self in the world."
The next thing thatTom asks is if it would be better for a child to have 3 years of excellent care and then be cast out of that healthy environment, or if it would be better to have 3 years of neglectful poor parenting followed by adoption into a loving wonderful home.
Gabor replies thatTom is asking him to choose between two tragedies, butif he must choose he thinks that for a child a good environment from gestation through age 3 would give the child better resilience to succeed in life.
"Up until 15,000 years ago everyone lived in those societies (hunter-gatherer). What do these people provide to their infants?
- soothing perinatal experiences
- prompt responsiveness to the needs of the infant
- extensive touch and constant physical presence
- frequent infant initiated breast feeding up to age 5, with the average weaning at age 4
- a community of warm responsive adult caregivers (tribe)
- creative free play in nature with multi-aged playmates
Are our children getting too much, or not getting enough?- soothing perinatal experiences
- prompt responsiveness to the needs of the infant
- extensive touch and constant physical presence
- frequent infant initiated breast feeding up to age 5, with the average weaning at age 4
- a community of warm responsive adult caregivers (tribe)
- creative free play in nature with multi-aged playmates
Would it be a good investment to pay pregnant women and the mothers of young children to stay home and raise their children so that they don'thave tostay in the work force and put their babies into daycare?
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