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» Energy Department: Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19
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post 1677962733 02-26-2023, 10:51 AM
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Energy Department: Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19


WASHINGTON—The U.S. Energy Department has concluded that the Covid pandemic most likely arose from a laboratory leak, according to a classified intelligence report recently provided to the White House and key members of Congress.

The shift by the Energy Department, which previously was undecided on how the virus emerged, is noted in an update to a 2021 document by Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines’s office.

The new report highlights how different parts of the intelligence community have arrived at disparate judgments about the pandemic’s origin. The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.

The Energy Department’s conclusion is the result of new intelligence and is significant because the agency has considerable scientific expertise and oversees a network of U.S. national laboratories, some of which conduct advanced biological research.

The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence,” according to people who have read the classified report.

The FBI previously came to the conclusion that the pandemic was likely the result of a lab leak in 2021 with “moderate confidence” and still holds to this view.


The FBI employs a cadre of microbiologists, immunologists and other scientists and is supported by the National Bioforensic Analysis Center, which was established at Fort Detrick, Md., in 2004 to analyze anthrax and other possible biological threats.

U.S. officials declined to give details on the fresh intelligence and analysis that led the Energy Department to change its position. They added that while the Energy Department and the FBI each say an unintended lab leak is most likely, they arrived at those conclusions for different reasons.

The updated document underscores how intelligence officials are still putting together the pieces on how Covid-19 emerged. More than one million Americans have died in the pandemic that began more than three years ago.

The National Intelligence Council, which conducts long-term strategic analysis, and four agencies, which officials declined to identify, still assess with “low confidence” that the virus came about through natural transmission from an infected animal, according to the updated report.

The Central Intelligence Agency and another agency that officials wouldn’t name remain undecided between the lab-leak and natural-transmission theories, the people who have read the classified report said.

Despite the agencies’ differing analyses, the update reaffirmed an existing consensus between them that Covid-19 wasn’t the result of a Chinese biological-weapons program, the people who have read the classified report said.

A senior U.S. intelligence official confirmed that the intelligence community had conducted the update, whose existence hasn’t previously been reported. This official added that it was done in light of new intelligence, further study of academic literature and consultation with experts outside government.

The update, which is less than five pages, wasn’t requested by Congress. But lawmakers, particularly House and Senate Republicans, are pursuing their own investigations into the origins of the pandemic and are pressing the Biden administration and the intelligence community for more information.

Officials didn’t say if an unclassified version of the update would be issued.

U.S. national-security adviser Jake Sullivan declined to confirm or deny the Journal’s reporting in an appearance Sunday on CNN. He said President Biden had repeatedly directed every part of the intelligence community to invest in trying to discern as much as possible about the origins of the pandemic.

“President Biden specifically requested that the national labs, which are part of the Energy Department, be brought into this assessment because he wants to put every tool at use to be able to figure out what happened here,” Mr. Sullivan said.

There are a “variety of views in the intelligence community,” Mr. Sullivan added. “A number of them have said they just don’t have enough information.”

Asked about the Energy Department’s assessment, Sen. Dan Sullivan said Sunday on NBC that Congress needed to hold extensive hearings concerning the origins of the pandemic, adding that China has sought to intimidate other countries from questioning whether the virus emerged naturally. “This is a country that has no problem coming out and lying to the world,” he said.

The Covid-19 virus first circulated in Wuhan, China, no later than November 2019, according to the U.S. 2021 intelligence report. The pandemic’s origin has been the subject of vigorous, sometimes partisan debate among academics, intelligence experts and lawmakers.

David Relman, a Stanford University microbiologist who has argued for a dispassionate investigation into the pandemic’s beginnings, welcomed word of the updated findings.

“Kudos to those who are willing to set aside their preconceptions and objectively re-examine what we know and don’t know about Covid origins,” said Dr. Relman, who has served on several federal scientific-advisory boards. “My plea is that we not accept an incomplete answer or give up because of political expediency.”

An Energy Department spokesman declined to discuss details of its assessment but wrote in a statement that the agency “continues to support the thorough, careful, and objective work of our intelligence professionals in investigating the origins of COVID-19, as the President directed.”

The FBI declined to comment.

China, which has placed limits on investigations by the World Health Organization, has disputed that the virus could have leaked from one of its labs and has suggested it emerged outside China.

The Chinese government didn’t respond to requests for comment about whether there has been any change in its views on the origins of Covid-19.
Continue reading:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-o...-leak-807b7b0a
post 1677963083 02-26-2023, 10:55 AM
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The deranged leftists take another L
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post 1677964013 02-26-2023, 11:09 AM
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Not really looking forward to the inevitable drama of congressional hearings, but this guy has the right idea:
David Relman, a Stanford University microbiologist who has argued for a dispassionate investigation into the pandemic’s beginnings, welcomed word of the updated findings.

“Kudos to those who are willing to set aside their preconceptions and objectively re-examine what we know and don’t know about Covid origins,” said Dr. Relman, who has served on several federal scientific-advisory boards. “My plea is that we not accept an incomplete answer or give up because of political expediency.”
And this guy:
President Biden specifically requested that the national labs, which are part of the Energy Department, be brought into this assessment because he wants to put every tool at use to be able to figure out what happened here
post 1677964733 02-26-2023, 11:22 AM
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“Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.”

So a majority of agencies find a natural origin more likely than a lab leak.

Not that if matters. Evidence is evidence, and it rejects the lab leak. One side — natural origins — is continually publishing their work in selective science journals. The other has kept to social media, opinion articles and books for profit. Gee I wonder why.
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
post 1677965403 02-26-2023, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
“Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.”

So a majority of agencies find a natural origin more likely than a lab leak.

Not that if matters. Evidence is evidence, and it rejects the lab leak. One side — natural origins — is continually publishing their work in selective science journals. The other has kept to social media, opinion articles and books for profit. Gee I wonder why.
There is no evidence of natural origin. No original bat population, no intermediary host found, nothing. But, carry on.
post 1677965593 02-26-2023, 11:39 AM
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It wasn't leaked, it was released.
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post 1677965603 02-26-2023, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted By gwg77
There is no evidence of natural origin. No original bat population, no intermediary host found, nothing. But, carry on.
There are multiple lines of evidence for a natural origin, from epidemiological to evolutionary and molecular genetics.
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
post 1677965833 02-26-2023, 11:44 AM
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Jabbies taking another MASSIVE L.

They should double boost to be safe.
post 1677966683 02-26-2023, 11:59 AM
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This kunt who called it a dangerous conspiracy is still in denial, bet most libs will be

post 1677966913 02-26-2023, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted By 128
This kunt who called it a dangerous conspiracy is still in denial, bet most libs will be

Because she’s right
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
post 1677966983 02-26-2023, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
There are multiple lines of evidence for a natural origin, from epidemiological to evolutionary and molecular genetics.
Great. Show us some direct proof.
Originally Posted By 128
This kunt who called it a dangerous conspiracy is still in denial, bet most libs will be

I follow that kunt.
post 1677967943 02-26-2023, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
“Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.”

So a majority of agencies find a natural origin more likely than a lab leak.

Not that if matters. Evidence is evidence, and it rejects the lab leak. One side — natural origins — is continually publishing their work in selective science journals. The other has kept to social media, opinion articles and books for profit. Gee I wonder why.
It seems the energy department has come across some new Intel since those other agencies came to their conclusion.
post 1677968063 02-26-2023, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77
Great. Show us some direct proof.




I follow that kunt.
Proofs are for math and philosophy. Science uses evidence.

You can start with this. The genome has signatures entirely suggestive of natural recombination, particularly in the context of other closely related coronaviruses, including the most recent common ancestor RATG13. The FC site is almost certainly a product of natural recombination, and the original spike protein is minimally adapted to humans. More effective RBDs have already been sampled, and that’s with an extraordinarily small subset of all coronaviruses sequenced and isolated.

https://link.springer.com/article/10...05-020-04750-z
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
post 1677968853 02-26-2023, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted By gachase21
It seems the energy department has come across some new Intel since those other agencies came to their conclusion.
Must not be very compelling evidence.

“The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence,” according to people who have read the classified report.”
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
post 1677969073 02-26-2023, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
“Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.”

So a majority of agencies find a natural origin more likely than a lab leak.

Not that if matters. Evidence is evidence, and it rejects the lab leak. One side — natural origins — is continually publishing their work in selective science journals. The other has kept to social media, opinion articles and books for profit. Gee I wonder why.
Why are you such a pussy and why do you defend so hard that there's no possible way it was a lab leak?
**Drinks colon cleanse for fun crew**
post 1677969183 02-26-2023, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
Must not be very compelling evidence.

“The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence,” according to people who have read the classified report.”
Still leans more likely to be lab leak

Do you think we should gut out all the leadership with apparent incompetence, and and conspiracy theorist, at the FBI and Department of Energy?
post 1677969273 02-26-2023, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
Proofs are for math and philosophy. Science uses evidence.

You can start with this. The genome has signatures entirely suggestive of natural recombination, particularly in the context of other closely related coronaviruses, including the most recent common ancestor RATG13. The FC site is almost certainly a product of natural recombination, and the original spike protein is minimally adapted to humans. More effective RBDs have already been sampled, and that’s with an extraordinarily small subset of all coronaviruses sequenced and isolated.

https://link.springer.com/article/10...05-020-04750-z
Where is your bat population and/or intermediary host?
post 1677969593 02-26-2023, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted By keyboardworkout
It wasn't leaked, it was released.
That's what she said.
post 1677969783 02-26-2023, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77
Where is your bat population and/or intermediary host?
Live mammals were sold at the market epicenter. And positive samples associated with vendors selling them.
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
post 1677969883 02-26-2023, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted By gachase21
Still leans more likely to be lab leak

Do you think we should gut out all the leadership with apparent incompetence, and and conspiracy theorist, at the FBI and Department of Energy?
Not at all.
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
post 1677969923 02-26-2023, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
Live mammals were sold at the market epicenter. And positive samples associated with vendors selling them.
Oh yeah? So what is the original bat population and/or intermediary host?
post 1677969933 02-26-2023, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
Live mammals were sold at the market epicenter. And positive samples associated with vendors selling them.
You don’t think it was the wind turbines? And it’s ironic the department of energy- of all people -are propagating this conspiracy theory right after they approve 30 million more dollars for wind turbine crap.


post 1677970303 02-26-2023, 01:03 PM
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Repeat argument:

To start with I would like to present to origination of covid 19 likely started in bats.
A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin
We then found that a short region of RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp) from a bat coronavirus (BatCoV RaTG13)—which was previously detected in Rhinolophus affinis from Yunnan province—showed high sequence identity to 2019-nCoV. We carried out full-length sequencing on this RNA sample (GISAID accession number EPI_ISL_402131). Simplot analysis showed that 2019-nCoV was highly similar throughout the genome to RaTG13 (Fig. 1c), with an overall genome sequence identity of 96.2%. Using the aligned genome sequences of 2019-nCoV, RaTG13, SARS-CoV and previously reported bat SARSr-CoVs, no evidence for recombination events was detected in the genome of 2019-nCoV. Phylogenetic analysis of the full-length genome and the gene sequences of RdRp and spike (S) showed that—for all sequences—RaTG13 is the closest relative of 2019-nCoV and they form a distinct lineage from other SARSr-CoVs (Fig. 1d and Extended Data Fig. 2).
Cont here

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2012-7



Now this study

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-64264-1

Which you can click and read, but I can’t post due to access denied wil demonstrate that coronavirus not only occasionally occur and bats- but that’s become long time persistent house because of a “super immunity” they developed within their lungs .

It also demonstrates several extraordinary environmental stressors- some possibly caused by human- have lowered some of these immunity factors causing more shredding that could result in the human transfer.
Bat 'super immunity' may explain how bats carry coronaviruses, study finds
Bat-virus adaptation may explain species spillover, researchers say

Misra says the team's work suggests that stresses on bats -- such as wet markets, other diseases, and possibly habitat loss -- may have a role in coronavirus spilling over to other species.

"When a bat experiences stress to their immune system, it disrupts this immune system-virus balance and allows the virus to multiply," he said.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0506133614.htm


Now let’s talk about some of the greatest stressors - including some that can actually greatly expose the inside of the bat lung tissue while the virus is still shedding..



Wind turbines
Multiple mortality events in bats: a global review

.....

Two factors led to a major shift in causes of MMEs in bats at around 2000: the global increase of industrial wind-power facilities and the outbreak of white-nose syndrome in North America. Collisions with wind turbines and white-nose syndrome are now the leading causes of reported MMEs in bats.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1111/mam.12064

So we see there is a definite stressor there - and as aforementioned study demonstrated this stressor could exacerbate the human bat interaction of viruses.


Now let’s get more specific on these wind turbines and what the actually do to bats
Wind turbines burst bat lungs
Wind turbines kill bats by creating low-pressure zones that explosively decompress the air in their lungs.

....
Recently, scientists have noticed a large number of dead bats at wind farms around the world. The turbines seem to be taking a particularly heavy toll on migratory species and while it was clear that the scale of these deaths is much larger than expected

....

As the blades of wind turbines spin, they reduce the pressure of the air around them. As bats fly into these low-pressure zones, the sudden change causes the air in their lungs to expand faster than the bats can exhale. The technical term is “pulmonary barotrauma”. In three syllables, “their lungs burst”. Areas of low pressure are essentially invisible – even if the bats’ sophisticated sonar guides them through the spinning blades, they wouldn’t be able to sense these danger zones until it’s too late.

....

Baerwald performed autopsies on 188 hoary and silver-haired bats recovered from a wind farm in Alberta, Canada, to determine their cause of death. She found that 90% of them had some form of internal bleeding in their chest cavity that is consistent with death by decompression. A thorough dissection confirmed Baerwald’s interpretation – the majority had damaged lungs and some had distinct air-filled bubbles that were formed by the rupture of their alveolae (the tiny sacs in the lungs through which gases are exchanged with the blood).
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...urst-bat-lungs


Cont…
post 1677970373 02-26-2023, 01:05 PM
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Cont.
On a Wing and Low Air: The Surprising Way Wind Turbines Kill Bats
It is the pressure change--not the blades--that wipe out thousands of bats annually at wind farms

"As turbine height increases, bat deaths increase exponentially," says ecologist Erin Baerwald of the University of Calgary in Alberta, who led research into the deaths as part of her master's project. "What we found is a lot of internal hemorrhaging."

As the wind moves through a wind turbine's blades, pressure drops behind them by five to 10 kilopascals (a pascal is a unit of pressure), and any bat unlucky enough to blunder into such an undetectable low pressure zone would find its lungs and blood vessels rapidly expanding and, quickly, bursting under the new conditions.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...nes-kill-bats/
Bat Fatalities at Wind Turbines—Investigating the Causes and Consequences

...

Bats are being found dead beneath wind turbines all over the world. Bat fatalities have now been documented at most wind facilities in the U.S. and Canada and it is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands die at wind turbines in North America each year.
https://www.usgs.gov/centers/fort/sc...center_objects




With the hundreds of thousands of dead- or still dying with exposed chest cavity, bats at each major wind farm per year- it was only a matter of time before the human interaction happened.

-Maintenance workers tending to the turbines daily.

-Nearby communities to the wind turbines all the bats eventually fall- still shedding the virus

-scientists and researchers examining these bats.

-cleanup crews cleaning up the hundreds of thousands of dead bats under these turbines


Lots of exposure points lots of stressors.



We should immediately halt all wind turbine use worldwide an effort to save our species


As well as remove all leadership from the FBI & Department of Energy for their conspiracy theories.
post 1677970763 02-26-2023, 01:13 PM
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And to pile more on….


post 1677970913 02-26-2023, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted By Reliance012
“Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.”

So a majority of agencies find a natural origin more likely than a lab leak.

Not that if matters. Evidence is evidence, and it rejects the lab leak. One side — natural origins — is continually publishing their work in selective science journals. The other has kept to social media, opinion articles and books for profit. Gee I wonder why.
Originally Posted By Reliance012
There are multiple lines of evidence for a natural origin, from epidemiological to evolutionary and molecular genetics.
Originally Posted By Reliance012
Because she’s right
Originally Posted By Reliance012
Proofs are for math and philosophy. Science uses evidence.

You can start with this. The genome has signatures entirely suggestive of natural recombination, particularly in the context of other closely related coronaviruses, including the most recent common ancestor RATG13. The FC site is almost certainly a product of natural recombination, and the original spike protein is minimally adapted to humans. More effective RBDs have already been sampled, and that’s with an extraordinarily small subset of all coronaviruses sequenced and isolated.

https://link.springer.com/article/10...05-020-04750-z
Originally Posted By Reliance012
Must not be very compelling evidence.

“The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence,” according to people who have read the classified report.”
Originally Posted By Reliance012
Live mammals were sold at the market epicenter. And positive samples associated with vendors selling them.
Originally Posted By Reliance012
Not at all.


Negged
"I am a rational animal who occupies the intermediary position between angel and beast"

"The upper class is afforded their position by the collective burden the underclass must carry for them"


**Summer Walker Crew**
post 1677971023 02-26-2023, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77
Oh yeah? So what is the original bat population and/or intermediary host?
You’ve yet to explain why finding either is a prerequisite for concluding that a natural origin is more likely than a lab leak. It’s akin to me saying, well who was the original worker infected and when did they travel to the market? Oh you don’t know. Guess it wasn’t a lab leak.
"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
post 1677971263 02-26-2023, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
So let me get this straight...

Someone in this thread is arguing against the lab leak CT...

With a CT of how Covid-19 was created by wind turbines.

Just LOL srs
Read it and try it out
post 1677971273 02-26-2023, 01:21 PM
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#29
  1. OPGenesis
  1. OPGenesis
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Originally Posted By Anachron
So let me get this straight...

Someone in this thread is arguing against the lab leak CT...

With a CT of how Covid-19 was created by wind turbines.

Just LOL srs
Just LMAO.

Fuarkkkk.

Brutal
"I am a rational animal who occupies the intermediary position between angel and beast"

"The upper class is afforded their position by the collective burden the underclass must carry for them"


**Summer Walker Crew**
post 1677971403 02-26-2023, 01:23 PM
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#30
  1. gachase21
  1. gachase21
  2. Join Date: Dec 2010
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Originally Posted By OPGenesis
Just LMAO.

Fuarkkkk.

Brutal
Personally, I think the assertion Reliance012 is making that the FBI & Department of Energy are bunch of kooks might be valid.


I bet bodhy comes in here later and also agrees, the FBI and DOE are incompetent
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