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NY Times finally turns on Fauci
03-28-2023, 11:50 PM
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NY Times finally turns on Fauci
[img]https://i.imgur.com/yxxIdNT.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE]Covid had just reached American shores on Feb. 9, 2020, when Newt Gingrich invited Anthony Fauci, the longtime head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and the British zoologist Peter Daszak onto his podcast, “Newt’s World.”
Mr. Gingrich would later sour on Dr. Fauci, accusing him of playing a key role in “the biggest scandal in American history” and calling him “one of the most destructive and dangerous people in American history.”
But on that earlier, more innocent day, Mr. Gingrich deferred to Dr. Fauci’s expertise, gushing that Dr. Fauci was “a national treasure.” At one point, Mr. Gingrich asked about something he had heard.
“There’s a sort of urban legend,” Mr. Gingrich prodded Dr. Fauci, “that there’s a biological warfare center in Wuhan and that the coronavirus escaped from that.”
“I’ve heard these conspiracy theories,” Dr. Fauci replied. “And like all conspiracy theories, Newt, they’re just conspiracy theories.” He added that while he could not say that scenario was impossible, “the things you’re hearing are still in the realm of conspiracy theories without any scientific basis.”
Dr. Daszak agreed that “all the evidence says” the virus crossed from animal to human either in a Wuhan market or in rural China, probably after originating in wild bats.
The two men could have told Mr. Gingrich a lot more.
They could have said that laboratories in Wuhan had indeed been studying bat viruses, including coronaviruses. Live bats were kept in the laboratories, and scientists occasionally carried out controversial forms of research in which viral strains are manipulated in ways that can make them more dangerous to humans. Both men worked for organizations that had a hand in moving U.S. taxpayer funds to the scientists in Wuhan — Dr. Daszak had been involved with Wuhan bat research for years; Dr. Fauci’s emails show his staff had recently reminded him of N.I.H. funding for the coronavirus work Dr. Daszak’s organization supported.
They could have acknowledged that while they believed the virus had reached humans as a zoonotic spillover from animals, accidental leaks are a known lab hazard and couldn’t yet be ruled out (even if the notion of using coronaviruses as a biological weapon was laughably improbable).
Instead they dissembled. The near-certainty with which Dr. Fauci spoke publicly of zoonotic crossover is somewhat incongruous with his private communications from that time. He knew there was real debate — he was in the thick of it. In public, he leaned hard into animal crossover; behind the scenes, he wrote that “I do not know how this evolved” but warned that he was concerned about “distortions on social media” of Covid’s origins.
The pandemic grievously eroded public faith in health authorities as well as news media, a sort of national unmooring often attributed to former President Donald Trump and others on the right who touted questionable treatments and pushed back against vaccine mandates, masks and closures.
But the full story of Covid information manipulation is much broader. In the past month we’ve learned that both the Department of Energy (which oversees its own network of laboratories and scientists) and the F.B.I. now consider it most likely that the pandemic started in the laboratories. Although those assessments were made, respectively, with “low” and “moderate” confidence, they forced the laboratory theory to be roundly, if begrudgingly, acknowledged as a plausible explanation for the origin of Covid.
[b]And so we are left to wonder how a straightforward hypothesis got labeled first as a conspiracy and later as a reflection of racism. Retracing coverage and public comments, I found a cautionary tale: Those who seek to suppress disinformation may be destined, themselves, to sow it.[/b]
A familiar Chinese tendency to stonewall and evade foreign inquiries was on full display in Beijing and Wuhan as the world demanded answers about Covid’s origin. A similar impulse to shut down discussion, however, is suggested by the early public remarks of Drs. Fauci and Daszak, who found themselves thrust into fame overnight as journalists eagerly sought their insights.
By the time Dr. Fauci recorded the Gingrich podcast, he was involved in a private debate among some of the world’s most renowned biologists and virologists over how the virus had come to infect humans. Dr. Fauci recently acknowledged that half the participants in a now-notorious conference call to discuss Covid’s origin “felt it might be from a lab” — but at the time he gave little public hint of the seriousness of this debate.
I asked Dr. Fauci in a telephone interview about the largely one-sided nature of his public remarks. He’d always, at least, acknowledged the possibility of a lab leak, he said, but he couldn’t pretend to think both theories were equally probable. His entire career, he reminded me, centered for years on a virus — H.I.V. — that jumped into humanity from a chimpanzee. He then listed all the other outbreaks that he’d seen traced to animal origin: swine flu, MERS, even SARS-CoV-1.
“I can’t dissociate that in my mind, I can’t say, just, ‘I don’t know,’ the way you can,” he said. “I can’t, as a scientist, ignore the historical perspective that I’ve been deeply involved with my entire career.”
Emails released in a congressional inquiry indicate that Dr. Fauci was among the senior scientists who encouraged his colleagues to write a paper asserting that the new coronavirus had a natural origin. “The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2,” published by Nature Medicine in March 2020, concluded “we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is possible.”
“Our main work over the last couple weeks has been focused on trying to disprove any type of lab theory,” one of the authors, a researcher named Kristian Andersen, wrote in an email the day before the podcast dropped.
Then, in April 2020, Dr. Fauci pointed White House reporters to the publication, presenting it as compelling evidence of zoonotic crossover — without revealing that he had been involved with its creation and had even, according to the emails, given it his approval. (Dr. Fauci told me that he’s not sure he ever got around to reading the paper.)
By then, Dr. Fauci was fixed in the public imagination as a figure of reassurance and reliability. Mr. Trump was an easy foil — dishonest, childishly self-congratulatory and disturbingly capricious. And then there was Dr. Fauci — sober, rational and an emerging celebrity at a time when the public was exhorted to “follow the science,” a tiresome phrase obscuring the necessarily disputatious nature of scientific progress.
With Mr. Trump sneering about “kung flu” and “China virus,” it was easy to write off a lab-leak hypothesis as a right-wing fantasy. The MSNBC host Nicolle Wallace called it “one of Trumpworld’s most favorite conspiracy theories.” Twitter added warning labels to posts that argued for lab leak; ******** banned such posts altogether for several months in 2021 before reversing the decision. NPR called it a “baseless conspiracy theory” in a tweet, and the foreign affairs expert Fareed Zakaria wrote (and repeated on CNN): “The far right has now found its own virus conspiracy theory.”
And not just a loopy, harmless conspiracy theory, either, but a toxic idea often blamed for rising hate crimes against Asian Americans. Last year, even the White House press secretary at the time, Jen Psaki, attributed attacks on Asian Americans to “hate-filled rhetoric and language around the origins of the pandemic.”
But was that really about the lab? As I recall, people harped about bats, made cruel comments about Chinese food and stigmatized Chinese markets like this:
“The wet markets that have exotic animals in them — you’re not talking about a big chicken farm. You’re not talking about raising pigs. You’re talking about getting exotic animals from the wild … the fact is, the customs and the traditions and the things people have done for centuries are so ingrained in the population that the Chinese authorities and the Chinese people have found it very difficult to make those kinds of changes.” That’s Dr. Fauci in conversation with Mr. Gingrich, dwelling on the “ingrained” tendency of people in China to create disease-breeding environments.
As for Dr. Daszak, he’d soon pop up in China as a member of the World Health Organization team dispatched to investigate the origins of the virus. He was hardly a disinterested observer: Dr. Daszak had been collaborating for more than a decade with Chinese virologists studying bat coronaviruses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and directed National Institutes of Health money toward the research through his nonprofit, EcoHealth Alliance.
That initial W.H.O. investigation was famously stymied by Chinese intransigence, but the panel nevertheless ruled out the possibility of lab origin — only for the organization’s director general to admit several months later that this decision had been premature.
Fresh off the W.H.O. investigation, Dr. Daszak made the rounds of U.S. media to disparage lab leak as a conspiracy theory — frequently without disclosing his own professional stake in the laboratory. In perhaps the most mind-bending of these appearances, Dr. Daszak, was quoted on NPR’s “All Things Considered,” vouching for the independence of the W.H.O. investigation.
“If there was political interference with what we’re trying to say,” Dr. Daszak assured the listeners, “ … we would push back.”
From the beginning, it struck me — and many others — as outstandingly odd that the virus had erupted in a city where Chinese scientists ran experiments on bat viruses. It seemed even stranger when it emerged that one of the labs, the Wuhan branch of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, was next to the market still believed to be the epicenter of the outbreak. Sure, it could be a coincidence. But what a coincidence!
I never expected a definitive answer. As a former China correspondent, I assumed the government would lock the information down. I could not have predicted, however, that mentioning the laboratories would become socially unacceptable back in the United States. I’ve never had an opinion about how Covid started, but I was unnerved to see mainstream consensus lashing out in opposition to an idea that I understood to be plausible. Even friends and family gave me blank looks or suggested I’d fallen prey to conspiracy theory when I discussed these thoughts.
[/QUOTE][b]Continued in next post...[/b]
[QUOTE]Covid had just reached American shores on Feb. 9, 2020, when Newt Gingrich invited Anthony Fauci, the longtime head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and the British zoologist Peter Daszak onto his podcast, “Newt’s World.”
Mr. Gingrich would later sour on Dr. Fauci, accusing him of playing a key role in “the biggest scandal in American history” and calling him “one of the most destructive and dangerous people in American history.”
But on that earlier, more innocent day, Mr. Gingrich deferred to Dr. Fauci’s expertise, gushing that Dr. Fauci was “a national treasure.” At one point, Mr. Gingrich asked about something he had heard.
“There’s a sort of urban legend,” Mr. Gingrich prodded Dr. Fauci, “that there’s a biological warfare center in Wuhan and that the coronavirus escaped from that.”
“I’ve heard these conspiracy theories,” Dr. Fauci replied. “And like all conspiracy theories, Newt, they’re just conspiracy theories.” He added that while he could not say that scenario was impossible, “the things you’re hearing are still in the realm of conspiracy theories without any scientific basis.”
Dr. Daszak agreed that “all the evidence says” the virus crossed from animal to human either in a Wuhan market or in rural China, probably after originating in wild bats.
The two men could have told Mr. Gingrich a lot more.
They could have said that laboratories in Wuhan had indeed been studying bat viruses, including coronaviruses. Live bats were kept in the laboratories, and scientists occasionally carried out controversial forms of research in which viral strains are manipulated in ways that can make them more dangerous to humans. Both men worked for organizations that had a hand in moving U.S. taxpayer funds to the scientists in Wuhan — Dr. Daszak had been involved with Wuhan bat research for years; Dr. Fauci’s emails show his staff had recently reminded him of N.I.H. funding for the coronavirus work Dr. Daszak’s organization supported.
They could have acknowledged that while they believed the virus had reached humans as a zoonotic spillover from animals, accidental leaks are a known lab hazard and couldn’t yet be ruled out (even if the notion of using coronaviruses as a biological weapon was laughably improbable).
Instead they dissembled. The near-certainty with which Dr. Fauci spoke publicly of zoonotic crossover is somewhat incongruous with his private communications from that time. He knew there was real debate — he was in the thick of it. In public, he leaned hard into animal crossover; behind the scenes, he wrote that “I do not know how this evolved” but warned that he was concerned about “distortions on social media” of Covid’s origins.
The pandemic grievously eroded public faith in health authorities as well as news media, a sort of national unmooring often attributed to former President Donald Trump and others on the right who touted questionable treatments and pushed back against vaccine mandates, masks and closures.
But the full story of Covid information manipulation is much broader. In the past month we’ve learned that both the Department of Energy (which oversees its own network of laboratories and scientists) and the F.B.I. now consider it most likely that the pandemic started in the laboratories. Although those assessments were made, respectively, with “low” and “moderate” confidence, they forced the laboratory theory to be roundly, if begrudgingly, acknowledged as a plausible explanation for the origin of Covid.
[b]And so we are left to wonder how a straightforward hypothesis got labeled first as a conspiracy and later as a reflection of racism. Retracing coverage and public comments, I found a cautionary tale: Those who seek to suppress disinformation may be destined, themselves, to sow it.[/b]
A familiar Chinese tendency to stonewall and evade foreign inquiries was on full display in Beijing and Wuhan as the world demanded answers about Covid’s origin. A similar impulse to shut down discussion, however, is suggested by the early public remarks of Drs. Fauci and Daszak, who found themselves thrust into fame overnight as journalists eagerly sought their insights.
By the time Dr. Fauci recorded the Gingrich podcast, he was involved in a private debate among some of the world’s most renowned biologists and virologists over how the virus had come to infect humans. Dr. Fauci recently acknowledged that half the participants in a now-notorious conference call to discuss Covid’s origin “felt it might be from a lab” — but at the time he gave little public hint of the seriousness of this debate.
I asked Dr. Fauci in a telephone interview about the largely one-sided nature of his public remarks. He’d always, at least, acknowledged the possibility of a lab leak, he said, but he couldn’t pretend to think both theories were equally probable. His entire career, he reminded me, centered for years on a virus — H.I.V. — that jumped into humanity from a chimpanzee. He then listed all the other outbreaks that he’d seen traced to animal origin: swine flu, MERS, even SARS-CoV-1.
“I can’t dissociate that in my mind, I can’t say, just, ‘I don’t know,’ the way you can,” he said. “I can’t, as a scientist, ignore the historical perspective that I’ve been deeply involved with my entire career.”
Emails released in a congressional inquiry indicate that Dr. Fauci was among the senior scientists who encouraged his colleagues to write a paper asserting that the new coronavirus had a natural origin. “The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2,” published by Nature Medicine in March 2020, concluded “we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is possible.”
“Our main work over the last couple weeks has been focused on trying to disprove any type of lab theory,” one of the authors, a researcher named Kristian Andersen, wrote in an email the day before the podcast dropped.
Then, in April 2020, Dr. Fauci pointed White House reporters to the publication, presenting it as compelling evidence of zoonotic crossover — without revealing that he had been involved with its creation and had even, according to the emails, given it his approval. (Dr. Fauci told me that he’s not sure he ever got around to reading the paper.)
By then, Dr. Fauci was fixed in the public imagination as a figure of reassurance and reliability. Mr. Trump was an easy foil — dishonest, childishly self-congratulatory and disturbingly capricious. And then there was Dr. Fauci — sober, rational and an emerging celebrity at a time when the public was exhorted to “follow the science,” a tiresome phrase obscuring the necessarily disputatious nature of scientific progress.
With Mr. Trump sneering about “kung flu” and “China virus,” it was easy to write off a lab-leak hypothesis as a right-wing fantasy. The MSNBC host Nicolle Wallace called it “one of Trumpworld’s most favorite conspiracy theories.” Twitter added warning labels to posts that argued for lab leak; ******** banned such posts altogether for several months in 2021 before reversing the decision. NPR called it a “baseless conspiracy theory” in a tweet, and the foreign affairs expert Fareed Zakaria wrote (and repeated on CNN): “The far right has now found its own virus conspiracy theory.”
And not just a loopy, harmless conspiracy theory, either, but a toxic idea often blamed for rising hate crimes against Asian Americans. Last year, even the White House press secretary at the time, Jen Psaki, attributed attacks on Asian Americans to “hate-filled rhetoric and language around the origins of the pandemic.”
But was that really about the lab? As I recall, people harped about bats, made cruel comments about Chinese food and stigmatized Chinese markets like this:
“The wet markets that have exotic animals in them — you’re not talking about a big chicken farm. You’re not talking about raising pigs. You’re talking about getting exotic animals from the wild … the fact is, the customs and the traditions and the things people have done for centuries are so ingrained in the population that the Chinese authorities and the Chinese people have found it very difficult to make those kinds of changes.” That’s Dr. Fauci in conversation with Mr. Gingrich, dwelling on the “ingrained” tendency of people in China to create disease-breeding environments.
As for Dr. Daszak, he’d soon pop up in China as a member of the World Health Organization team dispatched to investigate the origins of the virus. He was hardly a disinterested observer: Dr. Daszak had been collaborating for more than a decade with Chinese virologists studying bat coronaviruses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and directed National Institutes of Health money toward the research through his nonprofit, EcoHealth Alliance.
That initial W.H.O. investigation was famously stymied by Chinese intransigence, but the panel nevertheless ruled out the possibility of lab origin — only for the organization’s director general to admit several months later that this decision had been premature.
Fresh off the W.H.O. investigation, Dr. Daszak made the rounds of U.S. media to disparage lab leak as a conspiracy theory — frequently without disclosing his own professional stake in the laboratory. In perhaps the most mind-bending of these appearances, Dr. Daszak, was quoted on NPR’s “All Things Considered,” vouching for the independence of the W.H.O. investigation.
“If there was political interference with what we’re trying to say,” Dr. Daszak assured the listeners, “ … we would push back.”
From the beginning, it struck me — and many others — as outstandingly odd that the virus had erupted in a city where Chinese scientists ran experiments on bat viruses. It seemed even stranger when it emerged that one of the labs, the Wuhan branch of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, was next to the market still believed to be the epicenter of the outbreak. Sure, it could be a coincidence. But what a coincidence!
I never expected a definitive answer. As a former China correspondent, I assumed the government would lock the information down. I could not have predicted, however, that mentioning the laboratories would become socially unacceptable back in the United States. I’ve never had an opinion about how Covid started, but I was unnerved to see mainstream consensus lashing out in opposition to an idea that I understood to be plausible. Even friends and family gave me blank looks or suggested I’d fallen prey to conspiracy theory when I discussed these thoughts.
[/QUOTE][b]Continued in next post...[/b]
03-28-2023, 11:50 PM
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#2
- gwg77
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Continued:
By spring of 2021, the lab leak was no longer unmentionable. Researchers, including some highly respected figures in coronavirus studies, published an open letter in Science magazine arguing that lab leak was a viable theory and should be properly investigated. President Biden asked his intelligence agencies to redouble efforts to identify Covid’s origin.
But there was still a taint around the idea.
Even when news fell in its favor — a World Health Organization report that left open the possibility of a lab leak, for example — the developments tended to be described gingerly and layered with caveats. CNN, for example, qualified the W.H.O. news by adding, “experts have roundly condemned the theory of a laboratory origin” and “there’s no proof of such origins or of a leak.”
In fact, there is no conclusive proof to rule out either theory. Mentions of lab leak were frequently followed by warnings that “many” or “most” researchers didn’t think it had happened, but I never found any basis for this sweeping assertion: Did somebody poll all the scientists?
Dr. Fauci has, in recent weeks, seemed to conflate the two theories or muddy the distinction between them.
“A lab leak could be that someone was out in the wild, maybe looking for different types of viruses in bats, got infected, went into a lab and was being studied in the lab and then came out of the lab,” Dr. Fauci told Jim Acosta this month on CNN. “But if that’s the definition of a lab leak, Jim, then that still is a natural occurrence.”
He has frequently mentioned the intense pressure he faced after contradicting a dishonest president, which he believes made him a target for political attacks.
“I have kept an open mind,” Dr. Fauci recently told Chris Cuomo on NewsNation, “from Day 1.”
***
We talk a lot about disinformation; the word has appeared in 27 New York Times articles so far this month. The anxiety is justified: The ease with which people can be misled, especially online, creates a perpetual instability. The country is awash in propaganda and manipulative fakery.
But trying to clean up disinformation by quashing ideas that somebody — a government employee, an academic think tank, a social media team — deems undesirable? This creates its own dangers. I’ve spent too many years in censored countries like Egypt, Russia and China to believe that our disinformation problem can be solved by monitoring speech and sorting out acceptable from unacceptable ideas. You end up in a society where nobody really believes anything.
A particular dread takes hold when I see public officials or pundits take it upon themselves to purify the national dialogue — to keep the guileless masses from being confused or misled. Dr. Fauci may have feared that ill-informed citizens and grandstanding politicians prying into laboratories would endanger beneficial research. He had, at other times, displayed a Hamiltonian distrust of ordinary people: when he admitted to lying about the benefits of masking because he feared panicked shoppers would buy up all the masks needed by frontline workers, or when he confessed to repeatedly nudging the herd-immunity target higher according to what he thought Americans could bear, apparently applying the boiling-frog theory to our collective tolerance for restrictions. Dr. Fauci told me both of those examples had been misunderstood. “That all got garbled,” he said. “What I was saying, in a clumsy way, was that we don’t really know.”
“I understand how you’re trying to psychoanalyze me,” he said. “It’s almost impossible to sort this out for the general public to understand.”
Maybe, too, most of the people who’ve shamed the discussion of lab leak were trying to do the right thing — those who weren’t Chinese bots, anyway. They were following the example of the people we are supposed to trust.
Here’s the real kicker: A recent Economist/YouGov poll indicates that 66 percent of the country, a majority of both Democrats and Republicans, now believe the pandemic originated in a laboratory.
Nobody should be surprised. After all, this is human nature: Once we realize an idea is being suppressed, we start to think it might be true.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/o...formation.htmlBut there was still a taint around the idea.
Even when news fell in its favor — a World Health Organization report that left open the possibility of a lab leak, for example — the developments tended to be described gingerly and layered with caveats. CNN, for example, qualified the W.H.O. news by adding, “experts have roundly condemned the theory of a laboratory origin” and “there’s no proof of such origins or of a leak.”
In fact, there is no conclusive proof to rule out either theory. Mentions of lab leak were frequently followed by warnings that “many” or “most” researchers didn’t think it had happened, but I never found any basis for this sweeping assertion: Did somebody poll all the scientists?
Dr. Fauci has, in recent weeks, seemed to conflate the two theories or muddy the distinction between them.
“A lab leak could be that someone was out in the wild, maybe looking for different types of viruses in bats, got infected, went into a lab and was being studied in the lab and then came out of the lab,” Dr. Fauci told Jim Acosta this month on CNN. “But if that’s the definition of a lab leak, Jim, then that still is a natural occurrence.”
He has frequently mentioned the intense pressure he faced after contradicting a dishonest president, which he believes made him a target for political attacks.
“I have kept an open mind,” Dr. Fauci recently told Chris Cuomo on NewsNation, “from Day 1.”
***
We talk a lot about disinformation; the word has appeared in 27 New York Times articles so far this month. The anxiety is justified: The ease with which people can be misled, especially online, creates a perpetual instability. The country is awash in propaganda and manipulative fakery.
But trying to clean up disinformation by quashing ideas that somebody — a government employee, an academic think tank, a social media team — deems undesirable? This creates its own dangers. I’ve spent too many years in censored countries like Egypt, Russia and China to believe that our disinformation problem can be solved by monitoring speech and sorting out acceptable from unacceptable ideas. You end up in a society where nobody really believes anything.
A particular dread takes hold when I see public officials or pundits take it upon themselves to purify the national dialogue — to keep the guileless masses from being confused or misled. Dr. Fauci may have feared that ill-informed citizens and grandstanding politicians prying into laboratories would endanger beneficial research. He had, at other times, displayed a Hamiltonian distrust of ordinary people: when he admitted to lying about the benefits of masking because he feared panicked shoppers would buy up all the masks needed by frontline workers, or when he confessed to repeatedly nudging the herd-immunity target higher according to what he thought Americans could bear, apparently applying the boiling-frog theory to our collective tolerance for restrictions. Dr. Fauci told me both of those examples had been misunderstood. “That all got garbled,” he said. “What I was saying, in a clumsy way, was that we don’t really know.”
“I understand how you’re trying to psychoanalyze me,” he said. “It’s almost impossible to sort this out for the general public to understand.”
Maybe, too, most of the people who’ve shamed the discussion of lab leak were trying to do the right thing — those who weren’t Chinese bots, anyway. They were following the example of the people we are supposed to trust.
Here’s the real kicker: A recent Economist/YouGov poll indicates that 66 percent of the country, a majority of both Democrats and Republicans, now believe the pandemic originated in a laboratory.
Nobody should be surprised. After all, this is human nature: Once we realize an idea is being suppressed, we start to think it might be true.
03-28-2023, 11:57 PM
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#3
- gwg77
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I saw the author call out CNN, MSNBC and NPR for suppressing lab leak, but let's not forget that the NY Times were one of the first to suppress lab leak theory on February 17, 2020. Would have to do a full search to see how many articles they published against lab leak.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/b...ton-china.html
Daily Mail coverage on NY Times article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ak-theory.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/b...ton-china.html
Daily Mail coverage on NY Times article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ak-theory.html
03-29-2023, 12:07 AM
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#4
- XterraRob
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- XterraRob
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Lol, why now?
The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
Education is humanity's key to salvation.
The 2nd Cold War has begun.
03-29-2023, 12:13 AM
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#5
03-29-2023, 12:22 AM
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#6
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LOL @ Wincel catching more Ls. Had a long back-and-forth with him over Dr. Fauci's recent comments where he tried to redefine a lab leak incident caught in the field as a natural occurrence. Everyone knows if a lab worker goes into the field and gets infected, that would be considered a lab leak incident. I think Wincel tried to coin it a "Natural Origins Lab Leak" or some nonsense like that.
Even this NY Times article called Fauci out for it:
Even this NY Times article called Fauci out for it:
Dr. Fauci has, in recent weeks, seemed to conflate the two theories or muddy the distinction between them.
“A lab leak could be that someone was out in the wild, maybe looking for different types of viruses in bats, got infected, went into a lab and was being studied in the lab and then came out of the lab,” Dr. Fauci told Jim Acosta this month on CNN. “But if that’s the definition of a lab leak, Jim, then that still is a natural occurrence.”
“A lab leak could be that someone was out in the wild, maybe looking for different types of viruses in bats, got infected, went into a lab and was being studied in the lab and then came out of the lab,” Dr. Fauci told Jim Acosta this month on CNN. “But if that’s the definition of a lab leak, Jim, then that still is a natural occurrence.”
03-29-2023, 12:36 AM
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#7
- Bodhy
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Um no, I don't care what Fauci or Wincel have said.
If the virus occursnaturally, and a lab worker heads out intonature, and gets infected there, and just happens to bring the virus back with him, that ain't a lab leak. Unless, and this is a very speculative AF hypothetical, they went out specifically to capture that virus and bring it back to the lab for study. And then it escaped due to some sort of lax measures with their biosecurity.
You can only really call it a lab leak if the virus hadn't infected a human outside of the lab and only escaped via lax biosecurity. If the virus is already within a human host, it's not an escapee from the lab, it's a visitor to the lab.
Say someone from a law firm went out into the wild, got infected with the virus, brought it back to work, and then a mass of infections resulted from there on. You wouldn't really call it a law firm leaked virus, would you?
If the virus occursnaturally, and a lab worker heads out intonature, and gets infected there, and just happens to bring the virus back with him, that ain't a lab leak. Unless, and this is a very speculative AF hypothetical, they went out specifically to capture that virus and bring it back to the lab for study. And then it escaped due to some sort of lax measures with their biosecurity.
You can only really call it a lab leak if the virus hadn't infected a human outside of the lab and only escaped via lax biosecurity. If the virus is already within a human host, it's not an escapee from the lab, it's a visitor to the lab.
Say someone from a law firm went out into the wild, got infected with the virus, brought it back to work, and then a mass of infections resulted from there on. You wouldn't really call it a law firm leaked virus, would you?
Back off, Warchild.
Seriously.
03-29-2023, 12:58 AM
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#8
- gwg77
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
^^Another clown.Um no, I don't care what Fauci or Wincel have said.
If the virus occursnaturally, and a lab worker heads out intonature, and gets infected there, and just happens to bring the virus back with him, that ain't a lab leak.Unless, and this is a very speculative AF hypothetical, they went out specifically to capture that virus and bring it back to the lab for study.And then it escaped due to some sort of lax measures with their biosecurity.
You can only really call it a lab leak if the virus hadn't infected a human outside of the lab and only escaped via lax biosecurity. If the virus is already within a human host, it's not an escapee from the lab, it's a visitor to the lab.
Say someone from a law firm went out into the wild, got infected with the virus, brought it back to work, and then a mass of infections resulted from there on. You wouldn't really call it a law firm leaked virus, would you?
If the virus occursnaturally, and a lab worker heads out intonature, and gets infected there, and just happens to bring the virus back with him, that ain't a lab leak.Unless, and this is a very speculative AF hypothetical, they went out specifically to capture that virus and bring it back to the lab for study.And then it escaped due to some sort of lax measures with their biosecurity.
You can only really call it a lab leak if the virus hadn't infected a human outside of the lab and only escaped via lax biosecurity. If the virus is already within a human host, it's not an escapee from the lab, it's a visitor to the lab.
Say someone from a law firm went out into the wild, got infected with the virus, brought it back to work, and then a mass of infections resulted from there on. You wouldn't really call it a law firm leaked virus, would you?
If the lab worker goes into the field to collect bat viruses for study and gets infected, that is a lab-related incident. That is exactly what Fauci tried to redefine as a natural occurrence.
03-29-2023, 01:14 AM
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#9
- rocketfish
- San Diego
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- rocketfish
- San Diego
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fauci and obama funded the lab to create the virus in the first place
*** Free Thinker Crew ***
*** Herbert The Future GOAT Crew ***
*** HTC ***
03-29-2023, 01:50 AM
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#10
- phaginator
- Ayyy lmao
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- phaginator
- Ayyy lmao
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Atleast they admit they made a mistake, I can respect that even from garbage leftist press.
03-29-2023, 04:49 AM
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#11
- Bushmaster
- Masculine Toxicity
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- Bushmaster
- Masculine Toxicity
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And I'm betting wincel will still give his worthless life for him.
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
03-29-2023, 04:56 AM
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#12
03-29-2023, 05:07 AM
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#13
- Bushmaster
- Masculine Toxicity
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- Bushmaster
- Masculine Toxicity
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[QUOTE=Polaris post_id=1679801033]Surprised you didn't post the -
[youtube]QrXYLvA58Kk[/youtube
[img]//assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][/QUOTE]Nah... pretty sure that was Stoolie.[img]//assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
[youtube]QrXYLvA58Kk[/youtube
[img]//assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][/QUOTE]Nah... pretty sure that was Stoolie.[img]//assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
03-29-2023, 05:12 AM
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#14
- phaginator
- Ayyy lmao
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- phaginator
- Ayyy lmao
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Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
Wincel right thereSurprised you didn't post the -
03-29-2023, 05:25 AM
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#15
- jtaylor2010
- Join Date: Mar 2010
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
Given up on the raccoon dog already? Also, if they went out into a cave and got it, then they would know EXACTLY where to return in order to find the original animal source. Yet for some reason we still haven’t managed to find it.Um no, I don't care what Fauci or Wincel have said.
If the virus occursnaturally, and a lab worker heads out intonature, and gets infected there, and just happens to bring the virus back with him, that ain't a lab leak. Unless, and this is a very speculative AF hypothetical, they went out specifically to capture that virus and bring it back to the lab for study. And then it escaped due to some sort of lax measures with their biosecurity.
You can only really call it a lab leak if the virus hadn't infected a human outside of the lab and only escaped via lax biosecurity. If the virus is already within a human host, it's not an escapee from the lab, it's a visitor to the lab.
Say someone from a law firm went out into the wild, got infected with the virus, brought it back to work, and then a mass of infections resulted from there on. You wouldn't really call it a law firm leaked virus, would you?
If the virus occursnaturally, and a lab worker heads out intonature, and gets infected there, and just happens to bring the virus back with him, that ain't a lab leak. Unless, and this is a very speculative AF hypothetical, they went out specifically to capture that virus and bring it back to the lab for study. And then it escaped due to some sort of lax measures with their biosecurity.
You can only really call it a lab leak if the virus hadn't infected a human outside of the lab and only escaped via lax biosecurity. If the virus is already within a human host, it's not an escapee from the lab, it's a visitor to the lab.
Say someone from a law firm went out into the wild, got infected with the virus, brought it back to work, and then a mass of infections resulted from there on. You wouldn't really call it a law firm leaked virus, would you?
03-29-2023, 05:50 AM
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#16
- nkiritsis13
- [_]Living [X]Living Dead
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- nkiritsis13
- [_]Living [X]Living Dead
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How many biosafety level 4 virology laboratories are there in China versus wet markets?
For the first, there are[URL=https://www.globalbiolabs.org/map]four[/URL], one of which just so happens to be in Wuhan, with the remaining three spread across the country.
And the second?[URL=https://www.statista.com/statistics/1243020/china-number-of-food-markets/]39,397 Chinese wet markets in 2019[/URL].
You have to be willfully shilling or covering something up to deny the possibility of a lab leak with those kind of numbers. That's like finding someone holding a knife over a person stabbed to death and completely dismissing them as innocent on account of... reasons? No, the entire[i]world[/i]should have been looking at the Wuhan facility and everyone -[i]regardless of nationality[/i]- and seizing as much information as humanly possible. People have been heavily investigated for far,[i]far[/i]less, while those like Fauci continue to walk around without handcuffs knowing the amount of information he and others did about the Wuhan facility, its studies, and having such embedded, conflicting relationships with it and the research there.
What some people obviously still don't grasp is that if this was a real severe threat of a truly dangerous virus, taking the same submissive approach would lead to untold deaths from something much deadlier and more difficult to stop. The WHO complacently sitting on their dicks because China said so should be universally recognized as unacceptable.
[QUOTE]“A lab leak could be that someone was out in the wild, maybe looking for different types of viruses in bats, got infected, went into a lab and was being studied in the lab and then came out of the lab,” Dr. Fauci told Jim Acosta this month on CNN. “But if that’s the definition of a lab leak, Jim, then that still is a natural occurrence.”[/QUOTE]I believe the world just got a little bit dumber with that sorry as hell, meandering hypothetical.
Like, great story Mister Magoo, but what[i]really[/i]happened is all that actually matters. And given his own conflicting interests with, um[i]everything[/i], that doesn't qualify as anything worth a damn.
[QUOTE]A particular dread takes hold when I see public officials or pundits take it upon themselves to purify the national dialogue — to keep the guileless masses from being confused or misled. Dr. Fauci may have feared that ill-informed citizens and grandstanding politicians prying into laboratories would endanger beneficial research. He had, at other times, displayed a Hamiltonian distrust of ordinary people: when he admitted to lying about the benefits of masking because he feared panicked shoppers would buy up all the masks needed by frontline workers, or when he confessed to repeatedly nudging the herd-immunity target higher according to what he thought Americans could bear, apparently applying the boiling-frog theory to our collective tolerance for restrictions. Dr. Fauci told me both of those examples had been misunderstood. “That all got garbled,” he said. “What I was saying, in a clumsy way, was that we don’t really know.”[/QUOTE]This is an all around really good taste of the mounting lies, backpedaling, and manipulation. And again, it all comes down to arrogant pricks like Fauci who can't admit that they don't know. We saw it time and time again, the media pumped out the new goal post coordinates, and enough willful idiots gleefully flocked to across the field like daft lemmings.
[QUOTE=Keebler Elf]“I understand how you’re trying to psychoanalyze me,” he said. “It’s almost impossible to sort this out for the general public to understand.”[/QUOTE][i]Is it?[/i]Is it[i]really?[/i]
After all of this, we should be having investigations and hearings over all of this, dragging every slimy little weasel like Fauci around to any and all questions.But no, gotta look into hamburger height.But no, gotta look into hamburger height.Especially given the amount of damages done that, against all logical explanation, still has not been recouped as the world continues to reel from the aftermath of the pandemic. The US is somehow almost a worse mess than when it began, and again, people like Fauci just waltz around still high off of the blind idolization given for achieving absolutely nothing.
It is also very much worth mentioning:
[QUOTE=NY Times][b]And so we are left to wonder how a straightforward hypothesis got labeled first as a conspiracy and later as a reflection of racism. Retracing coverage and public comments, I found a cautionary tale: Those who seek to suppress disinformation may be destined, themselves, to sow it.[/QUOTE]How? Because of media outlets like[i]you[/i], you ignorance-feigning, sanctimonious kunts! Every single mainstream media source played along with a single official narrative like we were back in post 9/11 prepping for any and all wars, no matter who the target.
For the first, there are[URL=https://www.globalbiolabs.org/map]four[/URL], one of which just so happens to be in Wuhan, with the remaining three spread across the country.
And the second?[URL=https://www.statista.com/statistics/1243020/china-number-of-food-markets/]39,397 Chinese wet markets in 2019[/URL].
You have to be willfully shilling or covering something up to deny the possibility of a lab leak with those kind of numbers. That's like finding someone holding a knife over a person stabbed to death and completely dismissing them as innocent on account of... reasons? No, the entire[i]world[/i]should have been looking at the Wuhan facility and everyone -[i]regardless of nationality[/i]- and seizing as much information as humanly possible. People have been heavily investigated for far,[i]far[/i]less, while those like Fauci continue to walk around without handcuffs knowing the amount of information he and others did about the Wuhan facility, its studies, and having such embedded, conflicting relationships with it and the research there.
What some people obviously still don't grasp is that if this was a real severe threat of a truly dangerous virus, taking the same submissive approach would lead to untold deaths from something much deadlier and more difficult to stop. The WHO complacently sitting on their dicks because China said so should be universally recognized as unacceptable.
[QUOTE]“A lab leak could be that someone was out in the wild, maybe looking for different types of viruses in bats, got infected, went into a lab and was being studied in the lab and then came out of the lab,” Dr. Fauci told Jim Acosta this month on CNN. “But if that’s the definition of a lab leak, Jim, then that still is a natural occurrence.”[/QUOTE]I believe the world just got a little bit dumber with that sorry as hell, meandering hypothetical.
Like, great story Mister Magoo, but what[i]really[/i]happened is all that actually matters. And given his own conflicting interests with, um[i]everything[/i], that doesn't qualify as anything worth a damn.
[QUOTE]A particular dread takes hold when I see public officials or pundits take it upon themselves to purify the national dialogue — to keep the guileless masses from being confused or misled. Dr. Fauci may have feared that ill-informed citizens and grandstanding politicians prying into laboratories would endanger beneficial research. He had, at other times, displayed a Hamiltonian distrust of ordinary people: when he admitted to lying about the benefits of masking because he feared panicked shoppers would buy up all the masks needed by frontline workers, or when he confessed to repeatedly nudging the herd-immunity target higher according to what he thought Americans could bear, apparently applying the boiling-frog theory to our collective tolerance for restrictions. Dr. Fauci told me both of those examples had been misunderstood. “That all got garbled,” he said. “What I was saying, in a clumsy way, was that we don’t really know.”[/QUOTE]This is an all around really good taste of the mounting lies, backpedaling, and manipulation. And again, it all comes down to arrogant pricks like Fauci who can't admit that they don't know. We saw it time and time again, the media pumped out the new goal post coordinates, and enough willful idiots gleefully flocked to across the field like daft lemmings.
[QUOTE=Keebler Elf]“I understand how you’re trying to psychoanalyze me,” he said. “It’s almost impossible to sort this out for the general public to understand.”[/QUOTE][i]Is it?[/i]Is it[i]really?[/i]
After all of this, we should be having investigations and hearings over all of this, dragging every slimy little weasel like Fauci around to any and all questions.But no, gotta look into hamburger height.But no, gotta look into hamburger height.Especially given the amount of damages done that, against all logical explanation, still has not been recouped as the world continues to reel from the aftermath of the pandemic. The US is somehow almost a worse mess than when it began, and again, people like Fauci just waltz around still high off of the blind idolization given for achieving absolutely nothing.
It is also very much worth mentioning:
[QUOTE=NY Times][b]And so we are left to wonder how a straightforward hypothesis got labeled first as a conspiracy and later as a reflection of racism. Retracing coverage and public comments, I found a cautionary tale: Those who seek to suppress disinformation may be destined, themselves, to sow it.[/QUOTE]How? Because of media outlets like[i]you[/i], you ignorance-feigning, sanctimonious kunts! Every single mainstream media source played along with a single official narrative like we were back in post 9/11 prepping for any and all wars, no matter who the target.
I will stand firm, I refuse to kneel - The fury in me is divine
My dark grave awaits, my fate is revealed - But I'm not afraid to die
If you have any problems or need advice, feel free to ask
03-29-2023, 06:10 AM
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#17
03-29-2023, 06:17 AM
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#18
03-29-2023, 08:33 AM
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#19
- Cleveland33
- Registered Gooner
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- Cleveland33
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
03-29-2023, 08:57 AM
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#20
- kcadrenalin
- Permanent Vacation
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- kcadrenalin
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Just wait until they find out what's been going on in Ukraine.
________
MFC
________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin
Tits and Beer
03-29-2023, 08:59 AM
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#21
- LogicalLifts
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- LogicalLifts
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
The fact that is undeniable is that China is responsible. For patient 0, for lack of transparency, for trying to undermine the WHO and its investigations - which Trump rightfully called them out on.Um no, I don't care what Fauci or Wincel have said.
If the virus occursnaturally, and a lab worker heads out intonature, and gets infected there, and just happens to bring the virus back with him, that ain't a lab leak. Unless, and this is a very speculative AF hypothetical, they went out specifically to capture that virus and bring it back to the lab for study. And then it escaped due to some sort of lax measures with their biosecurity.
You can only really call it a lab leak if the virus hadn't infected a human outside of the lab and only escaped via lax biosecurity. If the virus is already within a human host, it's not an escapee from the lab, it's a visitor to the lab.
Say someone from a law firm went out into the wild, got infected with the virus, brought it back to work, and then a mass of infections resulted from there on. You wouldn't really call it a law firm leaked virus, would you?
If the virus occursnaturally, and a lab worker heads out intonature, and gets infected there, and just happens to bring the virus back with him, that ain't a lab leak. Unless, and this is a very speculative AF hypothetical, they went out specifically to capture that virus and bring it back to the lab for study. And then it escaped due to some sort of lax measures with their biosecurity.
You can only really call it a lab leak if the virus hadn't infected a human outside of the lab and only escaped via lax biosecurity. If the virus is already within a human host, it's not an escapee from the lab, it's a visitor to the lab.
Say someone from a law firm went out into the wild, got infected with the virus, brought it back to work, and then a mass of infections resulted from there on. You wouldn't really call it a law firm leaked virus, would you?
Whether it was a lab or a food market China is still to blame.
All this is undeniable.
03-29-2023, 09:01 AM
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#22
- Agentdark45
- Thick. Solid. Tight.
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- Agentdark45
- Thick. Solid. Tight.
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Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
Yup, that's pretty much what I imagine IRL wincel to be like.Surprised you didn't post the -
☆☆☆Jaden Smith school of experimental philosophy and existentialism crew☆☆☆
☆☆☆UK crew☆☆☆
☆☆☆Poverty meal crew☆☆☆
☆☆☆CEO crew☆☆☆
Stats: 5'10"
Weight: 185lbs
03-29-2023, 09:17 AM
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#23
- InVentive44
- Snakin down your chimney
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- InVentive44
- Snakin down your chimney
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Lol the dam is breaking and in a few months time this will be common knowledge all the while lib cocks continue to deflect.
Superight Crew
AntiVaxx Cew
COVID is a jok Crew
03-29-2023, 09:18 AM
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#24
- InVentive44
- Snakin down your chimney
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- InVentive44
- Snakin down your chimney
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Originally Posted By Agentdark45⏩
Most likely, Wince has stated numerous times he’s been diagnosed with depression and anxiety and sees a shrink… he’s mentally unstable and judging by his multiple Alts and personalities he has some kind of psychosis.Yup, that's pretty much what I imagine IRL wincel to be like.
Superight Crew
AntiVaxx Cew
COVID is a jok Crew
03-29-2023, 09:33 AM
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#25
03-29-2023, 09:35 AM
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#26
- XterraRob
- Pattern Recognizer
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- XterraRob
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Originally Posted By InVentive44⏩
Child molesting Democrats will say "what difference does it make?" after trying to put the unvaccinated in camps during the Rise of Fauci.Lol the dam is breaking and in a few months time this will be common knowledge all the while lib cocks continue to deflect.
The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
Education is humanity's key to salvation.
The 2nd Cold War has begun.
03-29-2023, 09:37 AM
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#27
03-29-2023, 09:40 AM
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#28
- ImpressiveGainz
- Registered Troll, PhD
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- ImpressiveGainz
- Registered Troll, PhD
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Originally Posted By ****inator⏩
I have zero respect for liars. They are just trying to cover their asses.Atleast they admit they made a mistake, I can respect that even from garbage leftist press.
Best thread: http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=168274783
***Black Crew*** (emeritus)
03-29-2023, 09:52 AM
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#29
- frankdtank20
- Registered User
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- frankdtank20
- Registered User
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The CDC director for the first year of the pandemic, Redfield says it was a lab leak and most importantly WHY.
The disinformation spreaders Wincel and ladyboy fuker ignore the actual biochemistry because Drumpf. Most of the initial consensus was based on China lying that the virus was found in pangolins. Oh ok great, let's get a sample months later. Turns out it was a very different virus found in the pangolins and China lied, which destroyed the early consensus. Funny how that didn't get corporate media coverage. "This segment brought to by Pfizer."
The disinformation spreaders Wincel and ladyboy fuker ignore the actual biochemistry because Drumpf. Most of the initial consensus was based on China lying that the virus was found in pangolins. Oh ok great, let's get a sample months later. Turns out it was a very different virus found in the pangolins and China lied, which destroyed the early consensus. Funny how that didn't get corporate media coverage. "This segment brought to by Pfizer."
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
03-29-2023, 09:54 AM
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#30
- frankdtank20
- Registered User
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- frankdtank20
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Originally Posted By XterraRob⏩
A little over a year ago half of Democrats thought parents who refused vaccines should have their kids taken from them until they complied. Even though the virus had killed zero healthy children.Child molesting Democrats will say "what difference does it make?" after trying to put the unvaccinated in camps during the Rise of Fauci.
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
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