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Forum » One thing that puzzles me a bit about obesity and the glucose insulin machinery
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Thread: One thing that puzzles me a bit about obesity and the glucose insulin machinery

post 1682122573 05-05-2023, 05:27 PM
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One thing that puzzles me a bit about obesity and the glucose insulin machinery

Certain doctors that propose the insulin machinery theory of obesity (triggered by too many carbs in the form of processed food on top of inflammatory stressors like certain fats, fructose etc.) treat people with low carb/keto.

These doctors get trashed, get called fringe doctors and other scientists keep saying calories in calories out + whole foods mostly is 99.99% of the battle..... Doesn't seem to be working for that many people.

Yet, now the industry is going to probably re-purpose diabetes drugs (aka insulin machinery whacked) because of successful weight loss on top of helping with T2 diabetes...

They work by helping to more effectively produce insulin and help the body use glucose.


edit: inb4 probably Mario from Miami
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post 1682122723 05-05-2023, 05:31 PM
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Not sure. I was able to lose 100 pounds of fat following calories in calories out. I lean towards that. And I'm pre diabetic too so I know my insulin is fukked. I think the main problem is people are lazy.
post 1682122753 05-05-2023, 05:32 PM
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White sugar
and corn syrups etc
**** almost 60% of consumers
post 1682123003 05-05-2023, 05:36 PM
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Obviously calories in calories out works, but when most fat people have a metabolic disorder their TDEE is obscenely low for how large they are. It might not work because their calculations are all wrong either when counting food calories or estimating TDEE
post 1682123223 05-05-2023, 05:40 PM
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from my meager understanding

ozympic will stimulate your pancreas to release insulin regardless of what you eat, and that insulin will make you feel fuller/more satiated

foods that can stimulate the release of insulin to a perceptible degree like that tend to be very calorie dense, so if you were wanting just the insulin response, you would probably be eating more than your daily maintenance to get the same effect of satiety.
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post 1682123943 05-05-2023, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted By PenorBrahNoHomo⏩
Obviously calories in calories out works, but when most fat people have a metabolic disorder their TDEE is obscenely low for how large they are. It might not work because their calculations are all wrong either when counting food calories or estimating TDEE
Metabolism isn't a constant though. Lifting weights and building muscle will raise your metabolism. Living a stagnant lifestyle will lower your metabolism.
post 1682124053 05-05-2023, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted By Archangel_Lost⏩
from my meager understanding

ozympic will stimulate your pancreas to release insulin regardless of what you eat, and that insulin will make you feel fuller/more satiated

foods that can stimulate the release of insulin to a perceptible degree like that tend to be very calorie dense, so if you were wanting just the insulin response, you would probably be eating more than your daily maintenance to get the same effect of satiety.
And methamphetamine brand name, Desoxyn is also an FDA approved medication for obesity. Because it makes people stop eating.

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-9...n-oral/details

Both drugs seem like high potential of rapidly regaining weight once you stop taking the drug. Doesn't replace healthy lifestyle and basic understanding of nutrition imo.
post 1682124533 05-05-2023, 06:02 PM
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I work with a guy who is extremely obese, 400+ pounds at like 5'6". Dude thinks he only eats 1800 calories a day and seems confused why he can't lose weight. His daily routine is to stop by McDonald's, taco bell, and burger king before noon. Seems to be more of a delusion honestly.
post 1682124783 05-05-2023, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted By PenorBrahNoHomo⏩
Obviously calories in calories out works, but when most fat people have a metabolic disorder their TDEE is obscenely low for how large they are. It might not work because their calculations are all wrong either when counting food calories or estimating TDEE
exactly, so none of the studies who keep saying cals in cals out account for "how easy it is to maintain a deficit" or address the root cause of the fact that they have metabolic disorder

so why wouldnt keto/low-carb mimic somewhat of a natural healing of the insulin machinery just like those T2 Diabetes drugs like metformin, ozempric and of course injectable insulin (but not autoimmune T1 of course...)
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post 1682125043 05-05-2023, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
exactly, so none of the studies who keep saying cals in cals out account for "how easy it is to maintain a deficit" or address the root cause of the fact that they have metabolic disorder

so why wouldnt keto/low-carb mimic somewhat of a natural healing of the insulin machinery just like those T2 Diabetes drugs like metformin, ozempric and of course injectable insulin (but not autoimmune T1 of course...)
Why rely on a drug and start fuking with hormones when most people have 0 understanding of basic nutrition?
post 1682125073 05-05-2023, 06:13 PM
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it's clearly lifestyle

Those insulin medicines reduce hunger, as well.

It is true more or less everyone does better on low carb
post 1682125143 05-05-2023, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted By bsrkoacar2⏩
I work with a guy who is extremely obese, 400+ pounds at like 5'6". Dude thinks he only eats 1800 calories a day and seems confused why he can't lose weight. His daily routine is to stop by McDonald's, taco bell, and burger king before noon. Seems to be more of a delusion honestly.
The other problem with sugar and candy etc is its pretty addictive for some people. The more sweets they eat the more sweets they crave. So they will “ be good” and have their salad and then right before bed sneak to their hidden stash of chocolate bars hidden in a bookcase and binge. But they think “i only ate a salad for lunch and a salad for dinner” and sweep any snacks under the rug.
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post 1682125393 05-05-2023, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted By desslok⏩
The other problem with sugar and candy etc is its pretty addictive for some people. The more sweets they eat the more sweets they crave. So they will “ be good” and have their salad and then right before bed sneak to their hidden stash of chocolate bars hidden in a bookcase and binge. But they think “i only ate a salad for lunch and a salad for dinner” and sweep any snacks under the rug.
True. At a certain point it is up to the obese person to stop shoving sweets into their mouths. I had to, I was eating an entire platter of cinnamon rolls a day or a dozen donuts a day on top of the candy when I quit drinking.... Lots of people have
Am I special? I think it's hard to help somebody who doesn't actually want to change. And until they do, there's not a lot we can do
post 1682126383 05-05-2023, 06:38 PM
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Not trying to sound negative, just being realistic. I know somebody who had gastric bypass surgery and lost over 200 pounds. Within 3 years he was bigger than when he first got the surgery because he didn't change any lifestyle habits. He went to a third world country and had the procedure done a second time and took it more seriously the second time and was able to keep the weight off through lifestyle change and better nutrition habits.

If you take a drug to lose weight, that's great but is it realistic to take it the for the rest of your life? I doubt it.... If you ever come off, you're gonna need to change lifestyle habits to keep the weight off. And will you're hormones be fukked up putting you in a worse spot than where you started? Unless you are in a situation where your obesity is life treatening, I don't really see the point of relying on a drug to lose weight.

Obesity seems to be a form of addiction. Sometimes people need to hit a rock bottom before they become willing to change. Some people might not be capable of being honest with themselves. And some people are just lazy to put in the time and effort to change.
post 1682126823 05-05-2023, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By desslok⏩
The other problem with sugar and candy etc is its pretty addictive for some people. The more sweets they eat the more sweets they crave. So they will “ be good” and have their salad and then right before bed sneak to their hidden stash of chocolate bars hidden in a bookcase and binge. But they think “i only ate a salad for lunch and a salad for dinner” and sweep any snacks under the rug.
but that diet outside the junk made up of rice and dry chicken breast doesnt help now does it
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post 1682127043 05-05-2023, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted By Archangel_Lost⏩
from my meager understanding

ozympic will stimulate your pancreas to release insulin regardless of what you eat, and that insulin will make you feel fuller/more satiated

foods that can stimulate the release of insulin to a perceptible degree like that tend to be very calorie dense, so if you were wanting just the insulin response, you would probably be eating more than your daily maintenance to get the same effect of satiety.
No, mostly wrong. While it does some of that, the actual mechanism of action for weight loss is slowing of digestion and a consequential reduction in appetite=much less calories.

If anything, the effectiveness of GLP1s are proof that people just way underestimate their consumption of foods. Caloies in vs out only works in actuality when people are both honest and accurate in tracking both what they eat and how much they burn.
In reality people are terrible at both.
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post 1682127243 05-05-2023, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted By FlexLex⏩
No, mostly wrong. While it does some of that, the actual mechanism of action for weight loss is slowing of digestion and a consequential reduction in appetite=much less calories.

If anything, the effectiveness of GLP1s are proof that people just way underestimate their consumption of foods. Caloies in vs out only works in actuality when people are both honest and accurate in tracking both what they eat and how much they burn.
In reality people are terrible at both.
what about the insulin stuff and how it autoregulates appetite

people in the 1950-1970s didnt really have this problem, and they were not that little industrialised

they never thought about counting calories, let alone macros
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post 1682127353 05-05-2023, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
what about the insulin stuff and how it autoregulates appetite

people in the 1950-1970s didnt really have this problem, and they were not that little industrialised

they never thought about counting calories, let alone macros
Because they were eating foods coming from their most basic sources, dinner would look like salad, steak, and a potatoe. Not foods loaded with corn syrup and seed oils. Those make foods much more calories dense.
post 1682127693 05-05-2023, 07:01 PM
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Processed foods generally are high on the glycemic index. Meaning loaded with sugar. Look at something like lucky charms cereal. Very high on the glycemic index. You eat a lot of it because it tastes good. Your blood sugar spikes high and then crashes and you feel like chit craving more sugar. So you eat more sugary snacks or meals 2 hours later. Where as if you are something healthy like eggs and oatmeal you'd probably still feel full. Chasing a sugar rush all day leads to eating more calories because you end up eating every couple hours to feel normal or drinking like a gallon of mountain dew a day to get the same fix like my co worker.
post 1682127843 05-05-2023, 07:03 PM
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Absolutely convinced the way to lose weight is to keep insulin as low as possible. So don't graze through the day and stay away from carbs.

If you can do cardio when you wake up in the morning and delay eating to at least 11 you will melt.

Pretty sure your body cannot store ketones like your body will convert extra calories to fat on a traditional diet. (Not confident on this)

So if there is a medication that kills your appetite and keeps insulin low you will get a good result. Although I don't think people understand the costs 1000 per month and unknown long term sides.
post 1682129043 05-05-2023, 07:20 PM
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post 1682129613 05-05-2023, 07:31 PM
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I think losing weight is different for different races. dedfknsrs.

Asians need to ease up on fat and seed oils. Rice/carbs don't really affect us like that.
Whereas White people probably are more susceptible wheat/carbs and stuff.
My Ethiopian bro tells me East Africans can't be diabetic because they evolved to eat a chit ton of sugar. Which he then proceed to prove to me using statistic and data, which proved him right.

source: just fkn trust me, bro.
post 1682130043 05-05-2023, 07:39 PM
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calories in calories out is far too simplistic and ignores downstream effects diet has.


it views weight gain as being simply a function of calories and ignores the fact that the human body is complex as fuk with interactions across the board
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post 1682151043 05-06-2023, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted By atgbrahsrs⏩
what about the insulin stuff and how it autoregulates appetite

people in the 1950-1970s didnt really have this problem, and they were not that little industrialised

they never thought about counting calories, let alone macros
Appetite is regulated by a multitude of different signalers and regulators and appetite itself is only one component of energy balance.
At the end of a buffet, is it appetite that causes you to go back for one more taste of ice cream, brownie, etc even though youre full? no
Originally Posted By whitepaper⏩
calories in calories out is far too simplistic and ignores downstream effects diet has.


it views weight gain as being simply a function of calories and ignores the fact that the human body is complex as fuk with interactions across the board
Its simple because at the end of the say the net equation is simple. Energy balance is what dictates fat loss or gain. Anything else is a variable within that equation.
People love to use the complexity argument to appeal to some mystical process that they can never expand upon.
Lets go for it--which of these complexities do you have enough knolwedge of to suggest it discredits energy balance, basic laws of thermodynamics, etc?? We will wait.
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post 1682173333 05-06-2023, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted By DomMJr⏩
it's clearly lifestyle

Those insulin medicines reduce hunger, as well.

It is true more or less everyone does better on low carb
Carb isn't the problem. Being stationary is.

Activity burns all that carb you take in
post 1682174073 05-06-2023, 02:14 PM
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I've been on Ozempic for about 2 weeks now, and this stuff is really great. Still eat, but now just a normal portion size and no times during the day where my body sends a bunch of saliva into my mouth and tells me to eat more.

The good thing, I think my stomach is shrinking as well because I'm not stretching it out anymore. So hopefully once I'm off of this drug, my eating capacity is still reduced.
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