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Thread: thoughts on overtraining?
05-16-2023, 03:07 PM
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#1
thoughts on overtraining?
So anyway, any new lifter that I've known or introduced to weight training once I mention "overtraining" to them, it's an alien concept to them and they think I'm crazy or don't know what I'm talking about.
When I first started lifting over 20 years ago I would train at least 4 hours a day, and after a year I had gained 40 lbs bringing my bodyweight to 145 lbs, my bench went from 45 lbs to 100 lbs, these are in no way impressive results, if I had simply ate like a normal person and brought my weight up to 145 lbs and not weight trained I still wouldn't have gotten fat I'm sure, and to put it in better perspective my friend also gained a large amount of weight in that year and had moved away and when he moved back he could lift as much as me and he hadn't done any weight training, just worked at kfc for a year.
Nobody seems to have a definite answer about overtraining, different coaches stress limiting how much you strength train and emphasize sleep and nutrition for recovery (like Rippetoe), which suggests overtraining must be possible, but you also have gymnasts who will train multiple hours everyday and have physiques which rival a bodybuilder's.
When I first started lifting over 20 years ago I would train at least 4 hours a day, and after a year I had gained 40 lbs bringing my bodyweight to 145 lbs, my bench went from 45 lbs to 100 lbs, these are in no way impressive results, if I had simply ate like a normal person and brought my weight up to 145 lbs and not weight trained I still wouldn't have gotten fat I'm sure, and to put it in better perspective my friend also gained a large amount of weight in that year and had moved away and when he moved back he could lift as much as me and he hadn't done any weight training, just worked at kfc for a year.
Nobody seems to have a definite answer about overtraining, different coaches stress limiting how much you strength train and emphasize sleep and nutrition for recovery (like Rippetoe), which suggests overtraining must be possible, but you also have gymnasts who will train multiple hours everyday and have physiques which rival a bodybuilder's.
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05-16-2023, 03:11 PM
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#2
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Originally Posted By johnvee73⏩
What in the fukking fukk?after a year I had gained 40 lbs bringing my bodyweight to 145 lbs, my bench went from 45 lbs to 100 lbs, these are in no way impressive results
Literal women make more progress than that on benching and they tend to actively avoid gaining weight and oftentimes sabotage themselves by trying to cut weight at the same time as just beginning lifting.
Bro how did you gain 40lbs ofanytype of mass and only put 55lbs on your bench?
Do you only have one arm? Are you physically disabled (in a no-hate way, srs)?
Have you since gotten on a better program or at least startedtryinga little bit?
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05-16-2023, 03:13 PM
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#3
Originally Posted By Robmnrd⏩
I was trying to emphasize my point that I was probably "overtraining", because no those are not impressive results.What in the fukking fukk?
Literal women make more progress than that on benching and they tend to actively avoid gaining weight and oftentimes sabotage themselves by trying to cut weight at the same time as just beginning lifting.
Bro how did you gain 40lbs ofanytype of mass and only put 55lbs on your bench?
Do you only have one arm? Are you physically disabled (in a no-hate way, srs)?
Have you since gotten on a better program or at least startedtryinga little bit?
Literal women make more progress than that on benching and they tend to actively avoid gaining weight and oftentimes sabotage themselves by trying to cut weight at the same time as just beginning lifting.
Bro how did you gain 40lbs ofanytype of mass and only put 55lbs on your bench?
Do you only have one arm? Are you physically disabled (in a no-hate way, srs)?
Have you since gotten on a better program or at least startedtryinga little bit?
And yes I do program better now, because I do believe in overtraining, just don't understand why it's an alien concept to new lifters.
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05-16-2023, 03:15 PM
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#4
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Overtraining is a chronic neurological condition where you regularly and repeatedly recruit the maximum number of motor units and type IIx.
You can train 4 hours a day and you won't be overtrained; you will be underrecovered.
If you do 10 doubles every day, you will become overtrained.
It's not about volume, it is about volume above a certain percentage of 1RPM.
You can train 4 hours a day and you won't be overtrained; you will be underrecovered.
If you do 10 doubles every day, you will become overtrained.
It's not about volume, it is about volume above a certain percentage of 1RPM.
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05-16-2023, 03:17 PM
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#5
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Almost no regular gym goer needs to worry about it. You gotta be going balls to the wall frequently, and not fully recovering. Most people just kinda go through the motions with no real set goal, so they won't be close to tapping out on recovery.
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05-16-2023, 03:21 PM
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#6
- Robmnrd
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Originally Posted By johnvee73⏩
Overtraining is a misnomer. It would be better and more accurate to refer to it as under-recovering. The former implies that there is some upper-bound to training regardless of variables, while the latter implies an ability to increase training volume/intensity/frequency within the bounds of one's personal ability to recover.I was trying to emphasize my point that I was probably "overtraining", because no those are not impressive results.
And yes I do program better now, because I do believe in overtraining, just don't understand why it's an alien concept to new lifters.
And yes I do program better now, because I do believe in overtraining, just don't understand why it's an alien concept to new lifters.
For a new lifter it is far more likely that they programmed poorly than any sort of overtrainingorunder-recovering.
Also why would you assume a new (meaning inexperienced, low-knowledge, non-exposed, etc.) lifter would understandanytraining concepts? "Maybe I'm doing more than I can handle" is a fairly innate perception for any/all people doing any/all activities beyond their scope, but specificity of knowledge comes from learning and experience.
So instead of introducing new lifters to "overtraining", why don't you approach it like "Hey let's chat about the importance of proper recovery, and why many new people don't place enough value on it".
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05-16-2023, 03:30 PM
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#7
Originally Posted By Robmnrd⏩
Well it also ties into how new lifters who want to lose weight just swing by on eating "whatever" and only small amounts of it, like a bag of potato chips and a liter of pop and expect to train again in 2 days and have better results than the last training day.Overtraining is a misnomer. It would be better and more accurate to refer to it as under-recovering. The former implies that there is some upper-bound to training regardless of variables, while the latter implies an ability to increase training volume/intensity/frequency within the bounds of one's personal ability to recover.
For a new lifter it is far more likely that they programmed poorly than any sort of overtrainingorunder-recovering.
Also why would you assume a new (meaning inexperienced, low-knowledge, non-exposed, etc.) lifter would understandanytraining concepts? "Maybe I'm doing more than I can handle" is a fairly innate perception for any/all people doing any/all activities beyond their scope, but specificity of knowledge comes from learning and experience.
So instead of introducing new lifters to "overtraining", why don't you approach it like "Hey let's chat about the importance of proper recovery, and why many new people don't place enough value on it".
For a new lifter it is far more likely that they programmed poorly than any sort of overtrainingorunder-recovering.
Also why would you assume a new (meaning inexperienced, low-knowledge, non-exposed, etc.) lifter would understandanytraining concepts? "Maybe I'm doing more than I can handle" is a fairly innate perception for any/all people doing any/all activities beyond their scope, but specificity of knowledge comes from learning and experience.
So instead of introducing new lifters to "overtraining", why don't you approach it like "Hey let's chat about the importance of proper recovery, and why many new people don't place enough value on it".
They become more baffled when I try to explain the importance of proper nutrition, all new lifters I've known thought that training was like a bank account where you simply put in as much in as you can and you simply get that much back without addressing certain variables, and they always try to trap me in what I say to try to make me look stupid. Some people live almost entirely off pop and chips and think if they can excel at the little that they do that weight training will be the same.
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05-16-2023, 04:28 PM
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#8
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Originally Posted By johnvee73⏩
Forget about it. Overtraining is not possible to reach on your own. Our body rewarding system will not allow it. You need sergeant kicking your butt and slurring insults, even then it is hard.Nobody seems to have a definite answer about overtraining, different coaches stress limiting how much you strength train and emphasize sleep and nutrition for recovery (like Rippetoe), which suggests overtraining must be possible, but you also have gymnasts who will train multiple hours everyday and have physiques which rival a bodybuilder's.
But, having said that, overtraining is fun to talk about, and a convenient escape path for slackers. Like food. So fun to discuss nutrition, and gym attire, sneakers to be just right, you know.
05-16-2023, 04:31 PM
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#9
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People who think overtraining doesn’t exist are legit retarded or have zero idea how to put effort into lifting.
That being said, people’s recovery efforts are varied individually so you can’t compare an elite level athlete probably on gear to the recovery ability of your overage person.
That being said, people’s recovery efforts are varied individually so you can’t compare an elite level athlete probably on gear to the recovery ability of your overage person.
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05-16-2023, 04:34 PM
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#10
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Back when Ephedruhhh was legal you could easily overtrain and have frequent colds.
i personally use the definition of overtraining as staying a long time in the gym going from one machine to the next rapidly and pushing to your redline.
Then repeating it daily until your body screams **no dude, you are getting sick**, stop this chit!
High volume+80% of max weights+ consecutive days+ little rest+ stimulants= overtraining for me personally.
No bueno, so i still keep the volume per body part high, but i only go 3-4 days weekly.
i personally use the definition of overtraining as staying a long time in the gym going from one machine to the next rapidly and pushing to your redline.
Then repeating it daily until your body screams **no dude, you are getting sick**, stop this chit!
High volume+80% of max weights+ consecutive days+ little rest+ stimulants= overtraining for me personally.
No bueno, so i still keep the volume per body part high, but i only go 3-4 days weekly.
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05-16-2023, 04:37 PM
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#11
05-16-2023, 04:41 PM
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#12
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
Stimulants definitely speed that up. Man, back in the jack3d days, chit was nuts.Back when Ephedruhhh was legal you could easily overtrain and have frequent colds.
i personally use the definition of overtraining as staying a long time in the gym going from one machine to the next rapidly and pushing to your redline.
Then repeating it daily until your body screams **no dude, you are getting sick**, stop this chit!
High volume+80% of max weights+ consecutive days+ little rest+ stimulants= overtraining for me personally.
No bueno, so i still keep the volume per body part high, but i only go 3-4 days weekly.
i personally use the definition of overtraining as staying a long time in the gym going from one machine to the next rapidly and pushing to your redline.
Then repeating it daily until your body screams **no dude, you are getting sick**, stop this chit!
High volume+80% of max weights+ consecutive days+ little rest+ stimulants= overtraining for me personally.
No bueno, so i still keep the volume per body part high, but i only go 3-4 days weekly.
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05-16-2023, 04:48 PM
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#13
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depends on your goals.
your body can take a beating but if hypertrophy is the plan than it's sub optimal to pound a body part into oblivion too often
your body can take a beating but if hypertrophy is the plan than it's sub optimal to pound a body part into oblivion too often
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05-16-2023, 05:18 PM
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#14
Not recovering is definitely a thing.
I’m over 50 and feel it. In my youth I’d train 5 days on 2 off.
Now, one on and one off and I’m still tired. The night on my workout days I sleep like chit, maybe get 6hrs in if I’m lucky. The next night I get 8, if I take 2 days off I sleep 8 hours then too. It takes me 2 days off to feel fully recovered while eating plenty of protein.
I’m over 50 and feel it. In my youth I’d train 5 days on 2 off.
Now, one on and one off and I’m still tired. The night on my workout days I sleep like chit, maybe get 6hrs in if I’m lucky. The next night I get 8, if I take 2 days off I sleep 8 hours then too. It takes me 2 days off to feel fully recovered while eating plenty of protein.
05-16-2023, 05:34 PM
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#15
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Originally Posted By DuracellBunny⏩
This. You’ll notice when your intensity is too high that you begin to feel sluggish, groggy upon waking up and lacking motivation. That means you’re pushing the intensity too high and you need to dial it back.Overtraining is a chronic neurological condition where you regularly and repeatedly recruit the maximum number of motor units and type IIx.
You can train 4 hours a day and you won't be overtrained; you will be underrecovered.
If you do 10 doubles every day, you will become overtrained.
It's not about volume, it is about volume above a certain percentage of 1RPM.
You can train 4 hours a day and you won't be overtrained; you will be underrecovered.
If you do 10 doubles every day, you will become overtrained.
It's not about volume, it is about volume above a certain percentage of 1RPM.
05-16-2023, 05:57 PM
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#16
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40lbs to 145?
You weighed 105 lbs? Did you start lifting as a 12 yo girl?
When I'm training 'too much' I feel constantly tired. I'm making great gains, but constantly tired. Technically, it's overtraining. But it's not like 1h in the gym and not lethargic will give you better gains than 4h and lethargic, ceteris paribus (sleep, food)
more work/food/sleep will always outweigh less work, unless you are injuring yourself.
in any case, 1.5h/day, 6xweek is my max before I start feeling consistently tired (i superset every workout, so 1.5h is around 40 sets). It's as if I can feel my body in always in a state of repair and I never quite catch up.
With gear, massive food intake and plenty of sleep, you can go twice as hard.
You weighed 105 lbs? Did you start lifting as a 12 yo girl?
When I'm training 'too much' I feel constantly tired. I'm making great gains, but constantly tired. Technically, it's overtraining. But it's not like 1h in the gym and not lethargic will give you better gains than 4h and lethargic, ceteris paribus (sleep, food)
more work/food/sleep will always outweigh less work, unless you are injuring yourself.
in any case, 1.5h/day, 6xweek is my max before I start feeling consistently tired (i superset every workout, so 1.5h is around 40 sets). It's as if I can feel my body in always in a state of repair and I never quite catch up.
With gear, massive food intake and plenty of sleep, you can go twice as hard.
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05-16-2023, 06:15 PM
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#17
Originally Posted By steeler505⏩
My bench went from 45 - 100 lbs in a year, and I started as majorly underweight at 105 lbs at 6 feet tall.40lbs to 145?
You weighed 105 lbs? Did you start lifting as a 12 yo girl?
When I'm training 'too much' I feel constantly tired. I'm making great gains, but constantly tired. Technically, it's overtraining. But it's not like 1h in the gym and not lethargic will give you better gains than 4h and lethargic, ceteris paribus (sleep, food)
more work/food/sleep will always outweigh less work, unless you are injuring yourself.
in any case, 1.5h/day, 6xweek is my max before I start feeling consistently tired (i superset every workout, so 1.5h is around 40 sets). It's as if I can feel my body in always in a state of repair and I never quite catch up.
With gear, massive food intake and plenty of sleep, you can go twice as hard.
You weighed 105 lbs? Did you start lifting as a 12 yo girl?
When I'm training 'too much' I feel constantly tired. I'm making great gains, but constantly tired. Technically, it's overtraining. But it's not like 1h in the gym and not lethargic will give you better gains than 4h and lethargic, ceteris paribus (sleep, food)
more work/food/sleep will always outweigh less work, unless you are injuring yourself.
in any case, 1.5h/day, 6xweek is my max before I start feeling consistently tired (i superset every workout, so 1.5h is around 40 sets). It's as if I can feel my body in always in a state of repair and I never quite catch up.
With gear, massive food intake and plenty of sleep, you can go twice as hard.
Had the mentality/and was told by others to workout as much as possible to get as strong as possible, and as a fool I listened to their advice.
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05-16-2023, 06:27 PM
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#18
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overtraining is an actual condition, people rarely ever reach that point.
under-recovering? to the point where you are sacrificing gains, yes, that happens. some tell-tale signs are lethargy/sluggishness, your lifts going down/stalling for weeks, lacking "explosiveness" in your lifts, your grip strength being weaker.
Either you need to adjust your volume (imo volume kills more rather than heavy lifts, but it's still an interaction of both), get more and better sleep, eat better, de-stress yourself, etc.
under-recovering? to the point where you are sacrificing gains, yes, that happens. some tell-tale signs are lethargy/sluggishness, your lifts going down/stalling for weeks, lacking "explosiveness" in your lifts, your grip strength being weaker.
Either you need to adjust your volume (imo volume kills more rather than heavy lifts, but it's still an interaction of both), get more and better sleep, eat better, de-stress yourself, etc.
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05-16-2023, 06:33 PM
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#19
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I'm borderline overtrained right now, and plan to take a day or two of rest. Have been doing intense workouts with trainer 4x per week and also riding bike 3-4x per week for 20-30 miles.
It makes you irritable with crappy sleep. After a while, you aren't seeing results and are wondering why such a big stall(although working your ass off). Cortisol levels are high.
It just requires like 2-3 days off, then coming back and making sure there is enough rest.
It makes you irritable with crappy sleep. After a while, you aren't seeing results and are wondering why such a big stall(although working your ass off). Cortisol levels are high.
It just requires like 2-3 days off, then coming back and making sure there is enough rest.
05-16-2023, 06:42 PM
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#20
05-16-2023, 07:03 PM
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#21
05-16-2023, 07:09 PM
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#22
- steeler505
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Originally Posted By johnvee73⏩
they were right srsMy bench went from 45 - 100 lbs in a year, and I started as majorly underweight at 105 lbs at 6 feet tall.
Had the mentality/and was told by others to workout as much as possible to get as strong as possible, and as a fool I listened to their advice.
Had the mentality/and was told by others to workout as much as possible to get as strong as possible, and as a fool I listened to their advice.
you should have eaten and slept better srs
your bench gains, or lack thereof, were not a result of overtraining lmao. You must have been doing 50 other things wrong to make progress that ****
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05-16-2023, 08:08 PM
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#23
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Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
Oh yeah, gym, house cleaning, clubs and still energy to do more.Stimulants definitely speed that up. Man, back in the jack3d days, chit was nuts.
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05-16-2023, 08:16 PM
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#24
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Lol @ people responding seriously to this fuking retard.
Dudes is either a troll or mentally handicapped.
Dudes is either a troll or mentally handicapped.
05-16-2023, 09:00 PM
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#25
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I think it has more to do with strength combined with intensity. Most people train like pussies so it's pretty much a myth. I think once you get into the elite strength levels it becomes more of a thing. But not so much overtraining as under recovering.
If you do a 1rm are you gonna be able to go heavier the next day? Or can you maintain hitting the same body parts with crazy volume back to back to back for days in a row? Probably not... If you can, you train like a pussy.
If you do a 1rm are you gonna be able to go heavier the next day? Or can you maintain hitting the same body parts with crazy volume back to back to back for days in a row? Probably not... If you can, you train like a pussy.
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