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Forum » Why Are Conservatives Against Free HealthCare?
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Thread: Why Are Conservatives Against Free HealthCare?

post 1689143063 08-29-2023, 06:36 AM
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Why Are Conservatives Against Free HealthCare?

But in favor of sending Billions of Dollars to Israel Every Year?
post 1689143443 08-29-2023, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted By TiktokCel⏩
But in favor of sending Billions of Dollars to Israel Every Year?
I'm all for all free everything. Except it's never actually free. It's more like I pay even more taxes so degenerates who refuse to work get even more free shyt.

I also don't give two fuls about Israel.
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post 1689143603 08-29-2023, 06:47 AM
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not the cost - I don't want the government involved in everything they already are involved in, I don't want them in healthcare more than they already are
post 1689143673 08-29-2023, 06:48 AM
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Nothing is free
post 1689143703 08-29-2023, 06:49 AM
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Idk why is 98% of the field ok with kowtowing to a foreign power.
post 1689144143 08-29-2023, 06:59 AM
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Most common:

- I like what I have and don't want it to change

- I don't want to pay expenses for people who have bad habits/make bad choices

- Government sucks at everything


1. Makes sense if you are one of the few people with really great employer provided coverage and you don't consider that what they spend for that insurance is money that could be in your paycheck instead.

2. Silly IMO. That is exactly how an insurance pool works...healthier people defray the expenses of sicker people. So under a private insurance plan you are in fact paying the expenses of smoker/drinkers/fatties. And having private insurance does not save your from paying the expenses of people like that who are not on your insurance plan because the sickest people are the ones most likely getting their healthcare paid for by taxpayers via government, or racking up unreimbursed expenses at facilities, the cost of which is passed on to other customers.

You can not avoid paying for smokers/drinkers/fatties. Can't do it. You will pay one way or another- higher health insurance premiums, higher taxes, higher medical costs.

3. Well, yeah. This is a good point and a reason to fight against government run healthcare systems- meaning a system where the government owns the facilities, pays the staff, and dictates what care citizens can access. Single payer- one giant insurance pool with everyone in it -administrated by the government seems like the least bad option because as a group patients/customers have more power to negotiate fair prices. Of course facilities and providers are not going to stay in business if they have no profits, but at least we wouldn't also be providing a profit to multiple competing administrators.

It should also cause the administrative costs born by providers to plummet. Imagine they only have to deal with one insurer and one set of rules instead of multiple insurers and multiple pricing schemes across patients.

single payer public health insurance + optional private coverage = moving towards sanity
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post 1689144153 08-29-2023, 06:59 AM
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The demand would be insatiable and completely clog up doctors/hospitals. People who desperately need treatment would have to wait for months before being seen by someone. I am more in favor of preventive care, free gym memberships, at-home blood tests, "virtual" doctor appointments etc.
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post 1689144163 08-29-2023, 06:59 AM
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I want my Doctor to work for me, not work for the Government.
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post 1689144223 08-29-2023, 07:01 AM
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Define "Free"

Does free mean that I pay more so people that don't work can avoid paying?
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post 1689144273 08-29-2023, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted By Shortfuze⏩
The demand would be insatiable and completely clog up doctors/hospitals. People who desperately need treatment would have to wait for months before being seen by someone. I am more in favor of preventive care, free gym memberships, at-home blood tests, "virtual" doctor appointments etc.
Um, in most places people already have to wait a long time.

We have some artificial constraints on the number of doctors and nurses. Plus some fields of medicine and geographic locations draw more providers.
Originally Posted By Gayford⏩
Define "Free"

Does free mean that I pay more so people that don't work can avoid paying?
If funded via federal taxation then everyone would be paying in. Fees at point of service [co-pays] are an option. I think most systems have some small fees, though I really haven't researched it.
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post 1689144313 08-29-2023, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted By dmaaack⏩
Nothing is free
Except op's mom
post 1689144493 08-29-2023, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Um, in most places people already have to wait a long time.

We have some artificial constraints on the number of doctors and nurses. Plus some fields of medicine and geographic locations draw more providers.




If funded via federal taxation then everyone would be paying in. Fees at point of service [co-pays] are an option. I think most systems have some small fees, though I really haven't researched it.
not everyone pays equally via federal taxation. Half of America pays zero income tax and payroll taxes are already bad as it is. You want to kill off small businesses then increase payroll taxes.
post 1689144533 08-29-2023, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Um, in most places people already have to wait a long time.

We have some artificial constraints on the number of doctors and nurses. Plus some fields of medicine and geographic locations draw more providers.

If funded via federal taxation then everyone would be paying in. Fees at point of service [co-pays] are an option. I think most systems have some small fees, though I really haven't researched it.
With universal healthcare, you'll probably have to wait even longer. And the quality of doctors and treatment will be suspect.
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post 1689144693 08-29-2023, 07:14 AM
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My son-in-law is from Sweden…the country that Redditors love to hold as the gold standard for “free” healthcare. He never had any preventative care, or any type of yearly physical until he moved to the United States with my daughter. He says that Sweden is a place you go to, to die.
post 1689144733 08-29-2023, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted By dmaaack⏩
Nothing is free
Except for a good old fashioned ass whoopin
I loe e.
post 1689144753 08-29-2023, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted By Tehcelltech⏩
I want my Doctor to work for me, not work for the Government.
This doesn’t happen now. They work for the hospital who works for the insurance companies
post 1689144773 08-29-2023, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted By Retoaded⏩
not everyone pays equally via federal taxation. Half of America pays zero income tax and payroll taxes are already bad as it is. You want to kill off small businesses then increase payroll taxes.
Oh, I hate payroll tax.

I would be for killing FICA and funding SS and Medicare via the general tax. They have been treating the money as if it is part of the general budget anyway.

Those programs will have to change or die. Everyone knows it. Has been known for decades. But no one wants to step up and deal with it.

Most likely it will become a sort of welfare for old people. Or alternately we kill medicare and social security and move to universal health coverage and UBI, though I would prefer UBI for children/elderly/disabled and for healthy working age adults a reverse income tax instead which doesn't discourage anyone from working.

TPTB have been actively murdering small businesses. First there were the closures forced by covid, then the raging inflation which is hardest for small businesses to adapt to [higher wages], and right now small businesses are being starved of capital via loans.

Looks to me like the middle class + small business are being killed, every bit of wealth is being funneled upwards and next up is reset/collapse of some kind.
Originally Posted By TiktokCel⏩
But in favor of sending Billions of Dollars to Israel Every Year?
I mean if you want a real answer both parties are against a universal health program in the US. Some may say otherwise, but mostly they are just lying for votes.

Health insurance and pharma are big profit centers...scrape away every last cent which a person may have managed to hang on to. Plus they employ so many people as administration/paper pushers.

Killing private health insurance would mean putting a lot of people out of work. However with what appears to be on the horizon with AI those jobs are toast anyway.
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post 1689144813 08-29-2023, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Most common:

- I like what I have and don't want it to change

- I don't want to pay expenses for people who have bad habits/make bad choices

- Government sucks at everything


1. Makes sense if you are one of the few people with really great employer provided coverage and you don't consider that what they spend for that insurance is money that could be in your paycheck instead.

2. Silly IMO. That is exactly how an insurance pool works...healthier people defray the expenses of sicker people. So under a private insurance plan you are in fact paying the expenses of smoker/drinkers/fatties. And having private insurance does not save your from paying the expenses of people like that who are not on your insurance plan because the sickest people are the ones most likely getting their healthcare paid for by taxpayers via government, or racking up unreimbursed expenses at facilities, the cost of which is passed on to other customers.

You can not avoid paying for smokers/drinkers/fatties. Can't do it. You will pay one way or another- higher health insurance premiums, higher taxes, higher medical costs.

3. Well, yeah. This is a good point and a reason to fight against government run healthcare systems- meaning a system where the government owns the facilities, pays the staff, and dictates what care citizens can access. Single payer- one giant insurance pool with everyone in it -administrated by the government seems like the least bad option because as a group patients/customers have more power to negotiate fair prices. Of course facilities and providers are not going to stay in business if they have no profits, but at least we wouldn't also be providing a profit to multiple competing administrators.

It should also cause the administrative costs born by providers to plummet. Imagine they only have to deal with one insurer and one set of rules instead of multiple insurers and multiple pricing schemes across patients.

single payer public health insurance + optional private coverage = moving towards sanity
Single payer mandates that all medical decisions be made by the payer.
I’d rather just work with my doctor one on one.
post 1689145123 08-29-2023, 07:24 AM
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Conservatives are retarded would be the obvious answer. The only countries that don't provide universal coverage are poor/undeveloped ones. Universal coverage doesn't mean all government ran either, most have some mixture of mandatory insurance, optional private plans and state subsidies for the very poor.

Singapore and Switzerland could be two good examples of that. But crucially they guarantee coverage to everyone and no one is going bankrupt paying medical bills.
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post 1689145143 08-29-2023, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted By Shortfuze⏩
With universal healthcare, you'll probably have to wait even longer. And the quality of doctors and treatment will be circumspect.
Originally Posted By Bo_Flecks⏩
My son-in-law is from Sweden…the country that Redditors love to hold as the gold standard for “free” healthcare. He never had any preventative care, or any type of yearly physical until he moved to the United States with my daughter. He says that Sweden is a place you go to, to die.
Yes, and this is probably down to the short sighted nature of humans and how our political system functions. From what I have read the UK and Canada are presently the worst universal healthcare systems in the sense that they are under funded and under staffed.

You might think that a government which is dependent on taxes from citizens to stay in business would have a good incentive to keep citizens healthy and working at some sort of productive endeavor. Or at least functioning as consumers assuming they have some means.

Private health insurance has a natural incentive to minimize or deny care as in most cases their customer is not the patient- their customer is the employer they contract with. By spending less on healthcare they increase their profits and can also be more competitive in the marketplace by offering their insurance service at a lower price which is attractive to their customers [employers].

Governments should naturally want to keep a good population of taxpayers as that is where they get their funds.

But politicians, the ones who sign off on the budgets for government, have to run for office every so often. And one way they try to appeal to voters is to promise less spending. Because people hate paying taxes and don't want to pay for the other guy.

So the politician has an incentive to spend as little as possible on social programs like healthcare, while the government should naturally want to keep people healthy and working.
Originally Posted By Lifterbro1488⏩
Single payer mandates that all medical decisions be made by the payer.
I’d rather just work with my doctor one on one.
NO. Unless you pay your medical expenses directly with cash right now your medical care is already subject to another party- your insurance company. And your insurance company has a reason to spend less money on you as that is how they make a profit.
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post 1689145533 08-29-2023, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
Conservatives are retarded would be the obvious answer. The only countries that don't provide universal coverage are poor/undeveloped ones. Universal coverage doesn't mean all government ran either, most have some mixture of mandatory insurance, optional private plans and state subsidies for the very poor.

Singapore and Switzerland could be two good examples of that. But crucially they guarantee coverage to everyone and no one is going bankrupt paying medical bills.
Lol.The guy that says capitalism is a failure and socialism is a success.
Lol at mentioning two small homogenous countries
post 1689145873 08-29-2023, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted By Bo_Flecks⏩
My son-in-law is from Sweden…the country that Redditors love to hold as the gold standard for “free” healthcare. He never had any preventative care, or any type of yearly physical until he moved to the United States with my daughter. He says that Sweden is a place you go to, to die.
But it's free. Can't you understand that it's free.
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post 1689146733 08-29-2023, 08:03 AM
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I've never had an issue being denied a procedure by my insurance. Also private individual coverage was a whole lot cheaper before Obama ruined everything with ACA.

I have no problem with the current system, pre ACA, I had a completely private policy do no reliance on my employer.
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post 1689146873 08-29-2023, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted By Lifterbro1488⏩
Single payer mandates that all medical decisions be made by the payer.
I’d rather just work with my doctor one on one.
Exactly.

And that single payer is our lovely congress, who big pharm is already in the pockets of. So we are trusting the government to negotiate insurance and drug costs on our behalf with the very people that line their pockets and give them million dollar board positions when they retire.

No thanks, joffrey.
post 1689147283 08-29-2023, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted By QuickShotSteve⏩
because you can't promise somebody elses work (IE : Nurse/Doctor/etc) for free.

That is communism.
So capitalism is when you give Billions of Dollara to Israel instead of looking after Americans?
post 1689147413 08-29-2023, 08:19 AM
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Proponents like to tout that single payer is cheaper, but the fact is that the reimbursement rates for medicare/medicaid are so low that most doctors won't accept it. My doc literally has a sign in the lobby saying so. A former co-worker of mine had a foster daughter (which qualifies for medicaid) and he was actually paying to add her to his insurance because it was almost impossible to find a doc who would see her in any reasonable amount of time.
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post 1689147463 08-29-2023, 08:20 AM
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Hive mind.


Every American plays politics like college football in the south. Both sides incapable of independent thought.
Originally Posted By QuickShotSteve⏩
because you can't promise somebody elses work (IE : Nurse/Doctor/etc) for free.

That is communism.
But you're totally OK with schools, roads, police, watermain, sewer, etc? Draw the line at Healthcare? Lol
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post 1689147643 08-29-2023, 08:24 AM
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Because nothing is free and the federal government could phuck up a wet dream given the opportunity. My private healthcare is cheap and sufficient.
post 1689147883 08-29-2023, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
Hive mind.


Every American plays politics like college football in the south. Both sides incapable of independent thought.





But you're totally OK with schools, roads, police, watermain, sewer, etc? Draw the line at Healthcare? Lol
Lol at comparing any of those(and yes, everyone of those would be better if they were privatized except maybe police)
post 1689147913 08-29-2023, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted By TiktokCel⏩
So capitalism is when you give Billions of Dollara to Israel instead of looking after Americans?
It's weird. The lousy management skills of government aside many people seem to get more mad at the idea of fairness among peers vs. exploitation by superiors.

Give money to other countries? Usually no one pays too much attention or hollers about that. Ukraine has been kind of exceptional.

Bail out corporations? Banks? Oh, well we have to do that. Never mind that the public money appears to mostly disappear into private pockets.

Give benefits to foreigners who show up uninvited? Or invited even? Oh, that is helping the less fortunate. I mean those people come from poor countries right? And rich America should help them out.

Give benefits to your fellow citizens?

No fair man! I have to work for everything I get. Screw those people. Let 'em starve in the streets.

It's an interesting human psychology thing...like mom and dad should treat all the children exactly the same, not play favorites. Feelings get hurt even if the child who gets more resources is less able to take care of themselves for some reason [less intelligent, addiction, physical handicap, etc.].

And, no, I'm not in any way saying that there are not people who are free riders taking advantage of programs they could do without. It's a normal part of competition for resources...tragedy of the commons, blah, blah, blah....exists across the wealth spectrum.

If a businessman structures his business to optimize for the least taxes/most government contract/grants then everyone just thinks that is smart.

If a poor person decides to remain single to get more government benefits that person is judged as a sort of cheater grifting people who are "playing by the rules".

People are funny.

ETA: Because I just though of this...another argument for giving UBI to non-workers [children, elderly, disabled] and then having a reverse income tax for workers- sense of fairness, less butt hurt.
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