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» Mandating More Stringent Economy Standards For Passenger Cars Will Harm Society
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post 1690264563 09-18-2023, 11:50 AM
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  1. katya422
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Mandating More Stringent Economy Standards For Passenger Cars Will Harm Society

I guess the people charged with the study had to bury this, but at least they put it in there.




Link:https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...or-model-years


I don't know who was tasked to read this beast and report on it.



^^^
If you open the pdf this is 214.
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post 1690294213 09-18-2023, 09:24 PM
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  1. InPhase
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That doesn't matter. It's all about forcing people into EV's they largely don't want.
post 1690301403 09-19-2023, 03:11 AM
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  1. ParsleyTea
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I read similar this morning. the article brings up Democrats banning of gasoline run cars in favor of EVs will result in around half of Americans not being able to afford owning a car. The article ~


Car Bans Could Be a Deciding Factor in 2024
Urban Democrats love them, everyone else hates them.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/car-ban...actor-in-2024/

excerpt:

9 Democrat-run states, California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Oregon, Rhode Island and Washington, have moved to ban cars by 2035.

The Biden administration has exploited EPA emissions standards to accomplish the same thing.

The green push to ban cars and force everyone to buy electric vehicles is a core part of the program and also highly unpopular with families struggling with high prices and inflation. Electric vehicles are far more expensive and much less reliable than cars and most can’t afford them.

59% of Americans oppose a ban on cars while only 40% support it. But, in worse news for banners, support for the ban has consistently fallen over the last years by 7% while opposition to it has increased. Republicans and Independents are obviously stalwartly opposed, but even among Democrats, opposition has grown until a third of Dems is opposed.

On a state by state level, opposition remains strong even in states whose Democrat governors unwisely chose to sign on to a 2035 car ban date. In Maryland, 60% opposed Gov. Wes Moore’s car ban while in New Jersey some 58% are opposed including 42% of Democrats. In Washington, 48% opposed Gov. Jay Inslee’s car ban while 38% backed it. Of those who opposed it, 31% were strongly opposed.

In Virginia, which was put on track to a car ban by following California’s illegal emissions mandates, 58% oppose a gas car ban while only 33% support it. Tellingly, while 42% strongly oppose a car ban only 12% strongly support one. Even among Democrats, support and opposition are nearly tied 44% to 43%. In Minnesota, 65% oppose a car ban while only 29% support it. (47% strongly oppose the ban while only 9% strongly support it.)

Nationwide, support for car bans is strongest among urban voters. And yet even there, ban backing never quite tops 50%. In suburban areas, support drops down to 31% and rural areas falls all the way to 24%. That stands to reason because to whatever extent electric vehicles are viable, it’s only in the core density of major urban areas. Outside them, they’re unusable.

Polls also shows support for a car ban is tied to income. Even the cheapest electric vehicles are out of the price range of most Americans. That’s why opposition to car bans climbs for families making less than $40,000 and even those making up to $80,000. The proposed car ban means families being unable to replace their minivan. It means mothers who can’t drop off their kids at school and fathers who can’t drive to work.

A car ban is an extinction level event for American families. If it goes through, 53% of Americans won’t be able to buy a car. Imagine how much their lives will change.

Pro-ban politicians act as if there will be a smooth transition from cars to electric vehicles.

The reality is that electric vehicles are not viable in any way, shape or form. America’s biggest car companies have spent and lost billions trying to make electric vehicles.

Ford is losing $32,000 on every electric car it sells. In 2023, it lost $3 billion on its EV boondoggle. Ford claimed that it will make 2 million electric cars by 2025 (at which point it would then lose $64 billion) but it only sold 61,575 electric vehicles in 2022. GM shut down the Chevy Bolt, its cheapest electric vehicle after losing $7,400 on every one it sold. It promises to profitably sell 1 million electric vehicles in 2025, but it only sold 44,000 at a loss in 2022.

The math on electric vehicles simply does not work. Many people point to Tesla. But the truth about Tesla is it made money through the fines that California imposed on makers and buyers of cars. In 2022, Tesla made $1.78 billion from carbon credit sales. Companies that make actual cars have to buy the credits from Musk’s Saudi company and pass on the cost to consumers.

While subsidizing electric vehicles for the rich by fining working class car owners worked well enough for Tesla, it’s not a pathway to shifting the entire country over to electric cars. What will really happen by 2025 is that the vast majority of Americans will be cut off from the market. They’ll be left trying to keep old cars and used cars on the road for as long as possible.

Why aren’t politicians talking more about this? Some are operating in the D.C. bubble and don’t recognize the profound impact this will have on the lives of hundreds of millions of people. Others see a 2035 deadline as being so far in the future that it doesn’t need to be dealt with now. And still others are constantly reacting to a passing parade of crises and outrages.

Car bans are far from the only issue out there, but it could have a deciding impact in 2024.

Democrats have committed to a policy that is wildly unpopular outside their small base of urban college graduates who idealize 15 minute cities navigated by bike shares. And they’ve done so with limited pushback from a Republican party that is schizophrenic and feckless in its inability to focus, to make a coherent case and to message on the things that actually matter to voters.

The car bans are an act of cultural, social and economic warfare by an urban elite against the rest of the country. If successful, they would make life all but impossible in rural areas, and increasingly challenging in many suburban areas. They would tear apart families, wreck jobs and push struggling people underwater.

Politicians have gone from two cars in every garage to no cars in the garage at all.

It’s hard to think of any single policy to devastating in its scope and so likely to outrage the working class voters that Republicans are trying to court as car bans. And yet Republicans are failing to talk about them because they are as detached as Democrats from the consequences.....
post 1690309843 09-19-2023, 08:39 AM
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  1. katya422
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This is a good article...
Originally Posted By ParsleyTea
I read similar this morning. the article brings up Democrats banning of gasoline run cars in favor of EVs will result in around half of Americans not being able to afford owning a car. The article ~


Car Bans Could Be a Deciding Factor in 2024
Urban Democrats love them, everyone else hates them.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/car-ban...actor-in-2024/

excerpt:

Nationwide, support for car bans is strongest among urban voters. And yet even there, ban backing never quite tops 50%. In suburban areas, support drops down to 31% and rural areas falls all the way to 24%. That stands to reason because to whatever extent electric vehicles are viable, it’s only in the core density of major urban areas. Outside them, they’re unusable.

Polls also shows support for a car ban is tied to income. Even the cheapest electric vehicles are out of the price range of most Americans. That’s why opposition to car bans climbs for families making less than $40,000 and even those making up to $80,000. The proposed car ban means families being unable to replace their minivan. It means mothers who can’t drop off their kids at school and fathers who can’t drive to work.

A car ban is an extinction level event for American families. If it goes through, 53% of Americans won’t be able to buy a car. Imagine how much their lives will change.
It is cruel and it's unnecessary.

- low birthrates > falling population

- CO2 is a minor fraction of atmosphere and the human component is a fraction of that fraction

- the majority of CO2 is from China and they have officially ceded any intent to cut their usage of fossil fuels

To mandate all electric vehicles is akin to murder/suicide at this point. Massive hardship for those outside of their 15 minute cities and/or just plain poor and it wouldn't save anything even if the so-called western nations could do it without harming anyone.

The official estimate is that only half of the US automotive fleet could be EVs by 2050 under their best case scenario.
Originally Posted By ParsleyTea
Pro-ban politicians act as if there will be a smooth transition from cars to electric vehicles.

The reality is that electric vehicles are not viable in any way, shape or form.America’s biggest car companies have spent and lost billions trying to make electric vehicles.

Ford is losing $32,000 on every electric car it sells. In 2023, it lost $3 billion on its EV boondoggle. Ford claimed that it will make 2 million electric cars by 2025 (at which point it would then lose $64 billion) but it only sold 61,575 electric vehicles in 2022. GM shut down the Chevy Bolt, its cheapest electric vehicle after losing $7,400 on every one it sold. It promises to profitably sell 1 million electric vehicles in 2025, but it only sold 44,000 at a loss in 2022.

The math on electric vehicles simply does not work.Many people point to Tesla. But the truth about Tesla is it made money through the fines that California imposed on makers and buyers of cars. In 2022,Tesla made $1.78 billion from carbon credit sales.Companies that make actual cars have to buy the credits from Musk’s Saudi company and pass on the cost to consumers.

Whilesubsidizing electric vehicles for the rich by fining working class car ownersworked well enough for Tesla, it’s not a pathway to shifting the entire country over to electric cars. What will really happen by 2025 is that the vast majority of Americans will be cut off from the market. They’ll be left trying to keep old cars and used cars on the road for as long as possible.

The car bans are an act of cultural, social and economic warfare by an urban elite against the rest of the country. If successful, they would make life all but impossible in rural areas, and increasingly challenging in many suburban areas. They would tear apart families, wreck jobs and push struggling people underwater.

Politicians have gone from two cars in every garage to no cars in the garage at all.
The push for a switch to EVs is mainly happening on the strength of government incentive, not real consumer demand. Similar to the giant windmills scheme which looks to be a bust...they don't reliable produce enough electricity relative to the cost to erect and maintain them and at end-of-life they are simply waste which must be dealt with...can't be recycled.

And the carbon credit scheme, though it has been a boon to Tesla, is total crap. There is a large amount of C02 on the front end w/EVs and the lifetime emissions don't always favor EVs.

High Mileage EVs Win CO2 Race, But Low Use Favors Hybrids - Report

If you drive 30,000 EV miles a year you will break-even in 1 year, but according to the study this would only be about 0.4% of vehicles. If you drive up to 10,000 miles a year in an electric car it will take 5 years before you break-even with the CO2 emitted by a combustion-powered vehicle. That would be about 1/3 of vehicles.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwin...h=553d127c2a6b


My little Honda is supposed to get a combined 29 or 30 MPG. It just turned 17 and I've got under 115K miles...less than 7,000 miles a year.
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post 1690310823 09-19-2023, 09:02 AM
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  1. Procta
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nothing good will come from it
Subscribe for extra premium content (no noodz sorry guys)
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