I used to do 25-30 half-assed sets. Maybe 2-3 of them were good sets if i'm feeling good that day. Would be in a chit mood all the time from being drained.

Switched over to doing 12-15 sets. Bout 3-5 of em are "half-assed" or warmup type sets and the rest are quality. That's almost 10 quality sets per workout. Legit feel way better and have tons of energy, good bonars, feel motivated to do other chit, etc.

You weren't eating/sleeping enough and over-trained. Add in an extra 1000-2000 calories per day. Get 400+ grams of carbs per day. Then check back in on high volume training.


But yeah. If you aren't eating like a bodybuilder you shouldn't be training like one. Even steroids can't compensate for not enough calories.

bodybuilding is a joke if youre natty (srs)

I was eating plenty. 400 carbs ez

I should add that I was doing PPL-Rest-PPL. 4 upper workouts a week. 120 upper body sets. Das not it mane

You can look almost as good as a syringecel but with less mass

Strength training is the only thing that builds muscle for me srs

same

IMO u gotta train heavy/failure as a natty. Can't do the "leave a couple reps in the tank" BS

Ok then, you weren't recovering enough. For high volume training you should be doing a bro split so you have at least 6-8 days of rest before hitting a muscle again.

High frequency splits should be much lower volume. As in go in and do 4-6 sets on chest/back. 3-4 sets on delts. and 2-3 sets on bis/tris. Since you are hitting everything 2x per week you get double that amount of volume throughout a week.

I know the fitness influencers that are on anabolic steroids and claim natty try to sell programs/knowledge that natties should be hitting everything at least 2x per week. But he truth is overall volume per week is the most important factor. Too much volume 2x per week requires a lot of juice/food/rest to recover from. Its also a fukkload harder on your joints/tendons. Also, an experienced lifter will not grow 'faster' hitting every muscle 2x-3x per week.


By that logic if the IFBB pro's would just train PPL/PPL they'd all be much bigger then they already are and would blow their competition out of the water because they only train once a week.


All of the top trainers that are putting dudes on Mr Olympia stages have similar training styles. High volume hit each muscle once per week. Allow a full 6-8 days to recover before hitting that muscle again.



I've been training 17 years. First natty, then enhanced, currently off cycle for a few months. Training style remains the same. Bro split all he way has been most effective for me. 15-20 sets per muscle group. Rest 7 days then hit again.

Agreed srs

When I trained high volume all it did was make me weaker and get injured

I usually just worked up to a single set, but I make that set count

It's definitely highly indiviudal. My best results always seem to come from upper/lower splits or simple strength routines. However, I often go back to bro splits because I simply enjoy them (I still get results just not as quickly).

Honestly 3-5 intense sets are plenty, maybe a couple drop set’s after that. 25-30 sets is retarded, no way your properly stimulating the muscle with that.

ur entire essay is about IFBB pros. I am talking about natties

I swear I still have muscular imbalances and longterm injuries from my younger days of high volume training. And my #1 priority was always proper form

IMO high volume ain't too bad if you do it every now and then. But going on a program lasting 1year+ ain't it

Me too bro! Heavy compound movements put on muscle. And it takes less time than doing 10 sets per muscle.

Nothing beats:

1. Dips/Push-ups
2. Pullups/Chinups
3. Overhead Press
4. Rows
5. Squats
6. Bench Press

If you do those 6 movements, you’ll gain muscle everywhere. Everything else is accessory.

6 heavy sets per week
Lots of protein
Sleep


Fun exercises are bicep curls, tricep pushdowns, lateral raises, quad extensions, hamstring curls, leg press, deadlift. But they aren’t necessary.

It all depends, in the military pull up training you reduce intensity, you only go 30% intensity, and then you can handle a ton of Volume, and it’s the most effective,

So if your current maximum number of pull-ups is nine, you’re only going to do three, but you are going to do about 25 sets!! And three times per week, the results you can get this way are absolutely mind blowing, which proves that volume really is the number one driver of strength and hypertrophy.

Hoo, my little pretty one, my pretty one
When you gonna give me some time, Corona?
Hoo, you make my motor run, my motor run
Gun it comin' off of the line, Corona

Never gonna stop, give it up, such a dirty mind
I always get it up for the touch of the younger kind
My, my, my, aye-aye, woo!

M-m-m-my Corona

Come a little closer, huh, a-will ya, huh?
Close enough to look in my eyes, Corona
Keepin' it a mystery, it gets to me
Runnin' down the length of my thigh, Corona

Never gonna stop, give it up, such a dirty mind
I always get it up for the touch of the younger kind
My, my, my, aye-aye, woo!

M-m-m-my Corona
M-m-m-my Corona (Yeah!)

When you gonna give to me, g-give to me
Is it just a matter of time, Corona?
Is it d-d-destiny, d-destiny
Or is it just a game in my mind, Corona?

Never gonna stop, give it up, such a dirty mind
I always get it up for the touch of the younger kind
My, my, my, aye-aye, woo!
M-m-m-m-m-m-m-my, my, my, aye-aye, woo!

M-m-m-my Corona
M-m-m-my Corona
M-m-m-my Corona
M-m-m-my Corona

Hoooooo-ohhh, my Corona
Hoooooo-ohhh, my Corona
Hoooooo-ohhh, my Corona

Damn a bunch of 165lb guys doing pull-ups proves that training at 30% of your 10 rep max is more effective than lifting heavy.

Thank you for clarifying this, we will alert the exercise scientists.


Newsflash! If your goal is to do more reps, training more reps allows you to do more reps. Wow! Amazing!

We still don’t understand time under tension itt ?

I found that mixing it up was the key. I'd get too set on strength training or volume blocks of training and it worked until it didn't.

So I would do like 6-8 weeks of volume, kind of a deload, and then 6 weeks of pure Bugenhagen/high intensity work with completely different exercises. Worked best for me I guess.

I remember doing a program and coaching from leeman back in like 2015 and it worked so well utilizing high reps and pushing and pushing, but eventually you have cut the volume because a natty can sustain it that long without some extra deloading. Not just rep wise but exercise wise.

This is a pretty popular way that power lifters do as well, I used this method a couple of times, and saw superior increase in biceps and back hypertrophy compared to any other split or routine, there are a couple of issues with this approach, but you can’t argue against volume being the number one driver of hypertrophy and strength, this is an established fact.

For all nattys I lol at nattys who follow roided up monkeys on social media and follow there bs workouts thinking they will get similar results.

Everyone is different. Some of the genetic freaks can train high volume, while others cannot. Same goes whether you're natty or not. Platz talked about how he trained with Arnold and lost muscle mass. He got fat trying to get at the necessary calories, and bloated from the drugs. Arnold was almost super human.

IMO, high volume has its place for specific goals. Strong man, Cross training/crossfit, football, basketball, military...

The body responds to stimulus at different thresholds and although there is science to it, it can vary. For instance, the longest sprint is 400 meters, because beyond that, the runners begin switching to the aerobic system.

Training systems determine which muscle fibers are being activated the most, impact on CNS, and ultimately muscle density.

IMO, volume should be tailored to goals and the individual. Create training systems that alter volume, rest between sets, between exercises, and use a variety of rep ranges. 6-12 for major lifts, and upwards of 25 for calves, forearms/grip, quads and hams, and laterals.

Training regiments can vary, like twice a week for each body part, push/pull, upper/lower, but generally speaking, 6-9 sets per week per body part could be enough in some cases. It can vary a lot for each person.

My hammies and ass love high volume stiff legged deads.

Up to 5x10 with 245. Goal is 5x10 315 for now.

bodyweight training is different

ya it works doing a couple week/month cycle

I dont know how some people recommend hitting a body part once every 6-8 days as a natty. Is this for real? All the way out to 8 days?

You reach a point of diminishing returns in a workout. 20 sets of chest is not going to give you so much more than 10. You’re better off doing half the volume, recovering, and lifting again 4 days later

Brb in my hayday i would squat 3x per week. Never saw faster gains than that. Even did smolov jr (4x per week)

Yeah idk.

I wish I could cut my workouts in HALF time-wise but I can't see any way i'd be going forward be reducing my work load.

going to experiment soon cuz I dont want to spend 3 hours of my day in the gym forever

fuark, I'm up to 2x315 for 12 reps as my working sets and the last rep is half deadlift lmao. Feels weird hitting exhaustion but the stretch at the bottom is unreal. Always milk it out for 2-3 secs before ascending.

Anyone doing more than 15 sets per workout either isnt lifting heavy or isnt lifting with intensity. Frequency>volume for a natty. Stimulate, dont annihilate.